What happens to the 40,000 people that die every year with out health care?

[NJmaverick]

With or with out the public option they get saved. How can liberals and progressives, that are supposed to be compassionate and caring, totally abandon them because the bill doesn't give us everything we want?

[Unvanguard]

1. Some liberals, apparently, prefer purist stunts to actually helping people.

And think dogmatic ignorance is a virtue.

[NJmaverick]

30. Yes and these actions are not going to win over the public to future liberal causes

it's true we are our own worse enemies

[NightWatcher]

2. how do they get saved without a public option?

[BzaDem]

10. They are given thousands in subsidies to dramatically reduce the cost of insurance

so that it is affordable. They are now able to buy a plan with 70% actuarial value. They then go to the doctor, get treated, and don't die.

Any questions?

[PassingFair]

63. Who pays for the subsidies?

Santa Claus?

[sad sally]

87. Unfortuanely, for some of the needed medical services there will

be deductibles that must be met. It might be tough to pay the monthly insurance bill and come up with the $500-$1000 deductible (or whatever it turns out to be). Hopefully, insurance companies will be guaranteed that the subsidy will include the deductible up-front, so needed treatment can be given.

America - land of compassionate care for all its citizens...

[NJmaverick]

11. The subsidies that make the insurance affordable

:shrug:

[dionysus]

3. peopel are flailing around right now. the situation stinks, but ppl arent thinking

[NJmaverick]

32. yes, that appears to be the case

[leftstreet]

4. They will still die

The bill isn't about 'healthcare' - it's about health INSURANCE

But then you know that

[dana_b]

21. exactly

people who aren't eligible for subsidies but have all their money already portioned out still won't be able to afford this bullshit mandated insurance with little price control. So, like many of my friends and family, they will refuse the insurance and pay the fine (as it costs less) but they will hopefully still be able to scrape by (they already are scraping). If they get sick, they are still screwed and may die.

[NJmaverick]

36. you are ignoring all those that are eligible but would die if your position of killing the bill

comes to pass

[dana_b]

53. I disagree because

the lack of price controls will not stop the ins. companies from continuing to increase the rates on all people who partake in the exchange. Then even fewer will be able to afford it. What then? Do we keep accepting a crap plan for the few who can get by while those who can't continue to go without?? This is supposed to be for ALL people - not just those who can afford it! And yes, I understand that it costs money but you know the saying - blood... turnip..

[NJmaverick]

70. subsidies, competition and the end of pre-existing conditions will enable millions

to buy insurance and that will save thousands of lives.

[DireStrike]

92. Competition. Lol. -nt-

[NJmaverick]

34. Now that just plain isn't true. There will be subsidies that will allow millions to buy life saving

insurance.

[leftstreet]

64. So the Teabaggers were right? Dems give to the rich & the poor?

And ignore the 'middle' class?

Cuz that's what they were saying...

:shrug:

[NJmaverick]

71. Well if the Dems ignore the lives they can say, then the Tea Baggers will be right in what they were

saying

[leftstreet]

78. Which is it - the 40,000 impoverished or the 'millions' you later claimed?

:shrug:

[Yuugal]

110. So instead of my kids getting it free

Now we can pay extortion money out the ass for coverage we can't afford to use. Thanks for nothing.

[The Straight Story]

5. 9/11 - we spend a lot when people are killed by terrorists, but otherwise we don't care

Saving lives is second to helping corporations save money.

[MercutioATC]

6. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

How many more will be "saved" if we enact REAL health care reform?

[BzaDem]

7. Many people here would be fine with them dying as long as insurance companies don't get a penny.

[TK421]

8. They are used in making Soylent Green....

[Vinca]

9. Why do you assume they will be saved?

By the time "reform" kicks in the subsidies may amount to a small fraction of the total bill for a year's insurance. What happens if, after the subsidy, an average person has to kick in $15,000? They won't be able to buy it. The whole thing is nothing more than corporate welfare.

[timeforpeace]

57. Excellent point. But the 40K will die thingie has always been an unvalidated vapid scare tactic.

[Libertas1776]

12. I am so sick and tired

of having to listen to this BS over and over. PEOPLE ARE STILL GOING TO DIE!!! Only now, we are requiring by law that they be abused by the big insurance cos.

[NJmaverick]

15. and the federal subsidies that allow them to finally purchase insurance

that doesn't help?:shrug:

[Libertas1776]

28. ...to purchase health insurance

that has no cost controls to speak of. Got a pre-existing condition? Don't worry, you cannot be denied...although, they can still charge you three times more now. Please, go sell you faux reform talking points somewhere else.

[NJmaverick]

31. The regulations are going to provide a good degree of cost control

as will competition

[Libertas1776]

35. You really gotta get me some of that stuff

you're smokin' :smoke:

[NJmaverick]

41. you are entitled to your own opinion but not your own set of facts

[Libertas1776]

51. And you are delusional

if you think there will be any cost controls in this "reform." Without a government run public option, there is no set standard for cost controls. The cos will charge whatever the hell they feel like.

[NJmaverick]

67. Dealing in facts and logic is far from delusional

although your comments seem to indicate your extremism has blinded you to that fact.

[Libertas1776]

76. If you think you are dealing in facts and logic...

than you are...oh, what's the word I'm looking for...DELUSIONAL. Your indifference has blinded you to that fact.

[NJmaverick]

77. oh I get it you are going for comedy....

although I don't think people's lives are a joking matter

[Libertas1776]

82. Your damn right they aren't a joking matter

which is why they shouldn't be subjected to the abuse of a bill that amounts to a corporate blow job. Oh, and speaking of comedy, your shtick is getting old.

[NJmaverick]

83. I noticed the other poster who also confronted you with facts and reason

you are entitled to an opinion, not your own set of facts

[Libertas1776]

84. What is it that you cannot get through your thick skull

Since you are the expert show me a link to anything where it says that persons with pre-existing conditions, primarily the elderly cannot be charged 300% more by the insurance cos. There are no protections and no cost controls to speak of. Face it.

[BzaDem]

38. That is a falsehood.

People with pre-existing conditions cannot be charged one penny more than people without. Older people can be charged up to 3 times as much as younger people, but people with pre-existing conditions cannot be charged ONE PENNY more than a similarly aged person without such conditions.

[NJmaverick]

79. He is ignoring you because he prefers insults to fact or reason

thanks for the effort though.:hi:

[Libertas1776]

85. Hey, paisan, I left a response to your last post...

Still waiting to hear your "facts."

[pissedoff01]

13. They go to uninsured heaven

if they want to move to the insured side, they have to pay premiums to insurance executives

[leftstreet]

18. +1

Welcome to DU!

[Turbineguy]

14. They will provide

for grave diggers.

:mad:

[Zywiec]

16. I assume they are buried like everyone else. n/t

[Donnachaidh]

17. well, those 40K who cannot aford to pay 27% of their salary for INSURANCE

will be fined by the IRS and STILL not get medical care. But with this bill the IRS gets to pick through their estate to pay the fine.

This bill is a POS and nothing more than protection for the insurance companies. It should die a noisy death.

[NJmaverick]

25. You appear to be deliberately ignoring all the subsidies that will allow people to buy insurance

that just isn't right

[Donnachaidh]

48. and you appear to be ignoring the numbers they state we will be charged

on AVERAGE, the american household can figure on paying almost ONE THIRD of their income for insurance.

Nice shackles! I guess paying back his corporate cronies with impoverishing the middle class doesn't bother BO, huh?

[DJ13]

19. Who will pay for their MANDATED STILL EXPENSIVE insurance so they dont die?

The joke of a bill that still remains has no provisions still left to increase competition to force insurers to reduce premiums.

[county worker]

20. What makes you so sure they will get health care?

They will get forced to pay for insurance but that does not translate into health care.

Why not pass a bill paying for their health care and not insurance?

I was a controller at a medical clinic. We had lots of people show up with insurance that we did not accept because it did not pay even 80% of what Medicare paid. The patients had to make up the difference. They had insurance but did not have the money to make up the difference.

We saw them anyway and wrote off what they could not pay.

[NJmaverick]

22. I see the unrecc squad is making it known that liberal victories are more important than people's

lives. :eyes:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. Still trying to pick up that dog turd by the clean end?

[Mari333]

47. [phone]!!!

[varelse]

128. ...

:spray:

[debbierlus]

24. We aren't abandoning them. This bill will make things WORSE not better

It doesn't give us anything we NEED while it crimalizes not buying private insurance, and turns the inability to afford insurance into a crime.

I have been following this legislation very closely for months.

Please read my journal, it has the answer to your question!

[NJmaverick]

27. I would imagine from the perspective of the uninsured it sure looks like you are

[debbierlus]

52. Health insurance is not health care -

Okay?

You can have health insurance and be denied care. My parents have 'great' health insurance and they had to fight a YEAR to get several thousand dollars in medical tests bills paid because the insurance company denied them (because they were done on the same day, after probably 40 hours on the phone overa year period, they FINALLY covered the bill. My aunt went without a second prescribed dose of chemotherapy for four months while her insurance company denied her, a dangerous thing for her condition.

I desperately want everyone without health care coverage to have care. I desperately do.

But, I will not support mandated purchase of private health insurance with no controls or competition.

It isn't as simple as you are making it out to be.

[Kitty Herder]

116. I AM uninsured.

This bill will not solve our problems. If it gets passed, Congress and the President can congratulation themselves on dealing with the health care issue. Then they can ignore the situation again as insurance costs continue to rise and people die because they still can't afford health care.

[optimator]

26. save the spin

you aren't fooling anyone.
Our eyes are open now.

[NJmaverick]

29. screw your spin, I am trying to save lives

[MNDemNY]

100. No. your motivation is to shill this bill for the White House.

Any claim by you that you are in it to save lives is just a lie. You have been shilling this thing for weeks, holding firm with each and every "give away" you have no "moral high ground" You ought to be ashamed of your self for framing your feeble argument in any other way than that you want a "win" for this president so bad that you would sell out your own mother to do it. You are not fooling anyone with any intelligence, so give it a rest,or maybe you should go back to your office and continue your job of denying health care at United Health Group. "saving lives" what a crock of shit. FAIL!!!

[mike_c]

33. you are utterly delusional....

Your blind support for Obama has made it impossible for you to see reality. I'm sorry for you.

[NJmaverick]

37. coming from an irrational extemist, I will take that as a compliment

what is sad is how you have no problem letting people die for you cause. Many lives will be saved by the subsidies in the bill you oppose.

[BzaDem]

40. +1.

[T Wolf]

39. There is nothing in the bill that "insures" they will get the care they need. All they will have

is a piece of paper (policy) saying they are "covered."

But the corps can still deny approval and/or payment for the medical care. The patient is stuck with paying for it anyway.

There is a mandate for the patient to buy, but none for the corp to pay for the care.

[NJmaverick]

42. That's not untrue the subsidies will allow millions to buy insurance

as well as those with pre-existing conditions being allowed to buy.

[BzaDem]

44. Except, well what do you know. There IS a mandate for the corp to pay for the care.

The exchanges MANDATE that plans cover procedures, depending on whether the plan is a "gold" or "silver" or "bronze" plan. A "silver" plan will MANDATE that insurance companies pay 70% of one's medical costs. It is not optional.

[slipslidingaway]

43. Not true according to Dr. Woolhandler, one of the authors of the study ...

to which you refer.

Interview ...
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/9/18/as_baucus_unveils_health_plan_absent

[NJmaverick]

45. That is simply not true, the subsidies will allow millions to buy insurance

and that will SAVE LIVES. As will allowing those with pre-existing conditions to finally buy insurance.

[slipslidingaway]

50. Wow, you read the interview already? It will save some lives and also ...

enrich the for profit companies.

We can do better.

[NJmaverick]

66. I consider lives saved more important than profits

[slipslidingaway]

73. Why support the for profit companies that do nothing to provide care...

since you still did not read the article, I'll post the relevant passage.


http://www.democracynow.org/2009/9/18/as_baucus_unveils_health_plan_absent

"AMY GOODMAN: Dr. Woolhandler, this report you just came out with, 45,000 people a year die from lack of health insurance. Where are these numbers coming from?


DR. STEFFIE WOOLHANDLER: Well, this was a federal study done by the CDC. They collected the data; of course, we analyzed it. They collected the data. They interviewed thousands of people and also had them examined by a physician and gave them lab tests. So we have very detailed information, not only about socioeconomic factors like education and income, but also their baseline health, how healthy were they at the beginning. Some were uninsured. And then the CDC followed these people for up to twelve years to see who lived and who died. So we were able to see what was the effect of lacking insurance on death rates and found that, in fact, people with no health insurance had a 40 percent higher death rate than similar people who had insurance.


So this—actually, when you do out the numbers, this implies that for every million people who remain uninsured in this country, about 1,000 deaths can be expected. So, perhaps Senator Baucus is happy with leaving 25 million Americans uninsured, but that translates into, predictably, predictably 25,000 American deaths each year due to the lack of health insurance. And that’s completely unacceptable to me as a physician, and it’s completely unacceptable to the other 17,000 physicians who’ve joined me in Physicians for a National Health Program to advocate for a Medicare-for-all, single-payer national health insurance..."

[kestrel91316]

Lots of people still won't be able to afford insurance.

The subsidies are for those making less than, what, $14k a year????

My rent and utilities are $1200 a month. Even if I make not a penny more to actually, say, EAT, I make too much to get the subsidy.

FUCKERS.

[Cleita]

46. They won't be saved because there is no provision for it if a health

care bill doesn't cover everyone and this one doesn't. Also with the mandates, insurers will be able to sell their cheapest product to the poor that really won't cover much more than catastrophic health care.

[Le Taz Hot]

49. I'll still be uninsured

and having to pay for it. Doesn't give us everything we want? What part of IT GIVES US NOTHING WE WANT aren't the blind partisans on this board not getting? Oh, fuck it. You have your talking points from Rahm. What's REALLY funny? YOU will be just as big a victim of this debacle as anyone else in this country will be. I have to ask myself this, WHEN you no longer have affordable health care, will you be raising those pom poms just as high?

[NJmaverick]

69. You will be given financial assistance to final purchase insurance

so no you will be insured, assuming you want to be insured.

[dysfunctional press]

72. after 2014...

unless the repug majority elected next year decides to gut it further...which they WILL.

if you're an example of what passes for a 'maverick' in new jersey, then i'm starting to understand all those jokes about the state that i've always heard from east coast comics.

[NJmaverick]

74. You are being illogical. Nothing was changed in terms of the time table

so you are using a false logic in your defense for allowing thousands to die.

[asdjrocky]

54. No shame.

Just curious, do you have health insurance right now? It's okay if you don't want to answer.

[NJmaverick]

60. apparantly no care about those lives that will be saved by this bill

[Vinnie From Indy]

55. Oh they're still gonna die!

Only now they will have to pay Big insurance for the privilege of dying. I am stunned that anyone believes that Big Insurance will play ball and deliver health care for these people. They have no intention of holding down costs and they will use every means at their disposal to keep sacrificing lives for profit. Some of you folks actually believe that simply because their is language in a bill about covering pre-existing conditions and the like that these will magically appear. I have no doubt that the health insurance industry has dozens of plans to circumvent the spirit of the bill now being discussed.

It's not that I want folks to die for the sake of principle, it is that I think they are screwed REGARDLESS of the happy, happy, joy, joy provisions in the bill that the insurance industry has no intention of honoring. And, there is nothing in the bill that will stop them from engaging in policies that continue to trade lives for profit.

[JackDragna]

56. This bill won't do a damned thing to save them.

There's no protections in the bill to prevent insurance companies from raising premiums through the roof. They're fine with not being able to raise rates on people for pre-existing conditions: they'll simply raise everyone's premiums through the roof.

[NJmaverick]

61. That is not true, the subsidies and the end of pre-existing conditions

will allow millions to get insurance and save thousands of lives

[JackDragna]

96. No, it won't.

The insurance companies have a million little loopholes to keep raking in the bucks and screwing high-risk customers. Again, they can raise rates with impunity on everyone, even if they cannot charge one group more than others.

[TomClash]

58. So then you would have to vote for any bill that saved them, wouldn't you?

Any bill. No matter how bad.

[NJmaverick]

62. If it saves lives, YES.

[TomClash]

59. We all want to save people's lives

Some of us would rather do it with health insurance carrier profits, taxation of the privileged, competition and cost containment rather than unaffordable mandates, fines and giveaways to those same carriers.

Your criticism is unfair. We went from single payer to the public option to the medicare opt-in. We accepted the odious mandates and other nonsense to get a bill passed and now you are telling the reasonable to capitulate. That's as reasonable as the President calling Lieberman to thank him but chastising Dean.

[NJmaverick]

65. This bill will save lives. How can you vote no or want it killed?

[BlueIdaho]

86. No it won't

The republicans will club the shit out us with this travesty in 2010 and 2012. It has already started - republicans talking about taxes - your taxes, my taxes, small business taxes, taxes on high quality insurance policies, taxes on medical supplies, more taxes than you can shake a stick at - all starting three months from now for benefits that won't show up for four years. Americans won't buy that. So when they take control of congress in 2010 or 2012 they will gut this health insurance bill like a fish. The poor will continue to die without seeing doctors because this President and the democratically controlled congress have screwed up. They have confused what's "easy" and what's "possible" with what's "right." They will be handing Americans something they don't really want... mandated for-profit insurance with no meaningful competition and uncontrolled spiraling costs for the foreseeable future.

What are we gonna say - "Well, things could be worse."

[Tailormyst]

68. This bill will not save them

[NJmaverick]

81. wrong

[Tailormyst]

101. No, you are wrong.

I would argue it with you if I felt for one second you would listen. Your recent posts have made it clear that you have zero interest in that.

[Jax]

134. nomad listens to no one but nomad

nomad never lets facts get in the way of his blind hero worship.

[brentspeak]

75. Are employed by the insurance co's or by the DLC?

Pharma?

[NJmaverick]

80. None of these above, just a person that cares more about lives than egos

[MadHound]

88. What happens to the millions of people who will be reduced to poverty levels, starving in the street

All because they have to fork over an increasing amount of their income to the insurance industry.

Twenty seven percent TWENTY SEVEN PERCENT! That is the estimated amount of the average family's income that will be devoted to health insurance premiums. Can you afford that? I know I certainly can't afford that.

You're worried about people dying due to lack of insurance, that number will soon be swamped by the number of people who will die due to starvation, starvation that is a direct result of giving the insurance industry a mandated monopoly.

[rucky]

89. There are two inescapable facts that frustrate me the most:

1) what you just said

and

2) There's not a goddamn thing we can do about it.

[NJmaverick]

94. It's not the best situation to be in, but like you said not much can be done about it

although there is nothing to say public options and medicare expansion can't be done at a later time.

[MNDemNY]

90. Ask"House" he'll know.

[DireStrike]

91. How many people above the subsidy line will be driven out of their homes

Or forced to choose between utilities and.... well fuck it, you CANT choose. You must pay the insurance companies, and if you don't, the government will take your money and give it to them.

This takes money from taxpayers that sorely need it, and gives it to companies that provide a "service" that should be illegal. The uninsured at or below subsidy level will benefit from it for a time, true. Until the subsidies are cut, which WILL happen when the completely uncontrolled costs skyrocket.

[grahamhgreen]

93. They are going to die with or without this bill - the bill guarantees nothing.

[NJmaverick]

95. The bill guarentees more will be able to get insurance

while not an absolute the odds strongly favor that fact saving lives.

[Tailormyst]

102. They won't be able to afford it.

[NJmaverick]

105. I am not sure how you can make that statement

[grahamhgreen]

104. No. It gives the appearance of giving people insurance. In reality it will force millions to buy

crappy "insurance" plans made by fly-by-night subsidiaries that will cover nothing.

Let's ditch this scam and get Obama to ask for a million people to march on Washington in support of Medicare for all!

[NJmaverick]

106. That sounds impressive, but it's not back up by the wording in the bill

[HughMoran]

97. No, you're not allowed to speak truth when people are busy pouting

:spank:

[jgraz]

98. At least they'll no longer have to listen to weak-ass apologists for the Corporatist in Chief.

And yes, they'll still be just as dead under the current non-reform. They'll just have sent all their money to Cigna first.

[NJmaverick]

103. So what do you say to the windows and windowers? Sorry but as a liberal your spouse's lives are not

as important as getting my way is?"

[jgraz]

108. Cheap-ass tactics worthy of a teabagger.

The same number of people will die with this bullshit legislation -- they'll just be poorer when they do.

[NJmaverick]

111. No a cheap ass and lazy tactic would be your tired and false "apologist" and "corporists" memes

as for you new claim, the language in the bill differs from your claims

[jgraz]

113. Really? What language is that? Have you seen it?

And it's "corporatist". If you're going to be one, at least learn to spell it.

[freddie mertz]

99. They won't be covered either way.

The insurance will not be affordable.

[grahamhgreen]

107. If you really cared about them you would join us in getting Medicare for All passed.

[NJmaverick]

112. after this bill passes, I wouldn't have a problem with that one

[Yuugal]

109. Nice try

My kids will lose their SCHIP and I won't be able to afford to buy them anything other than some corporate RAHM SCAM plan for 10k a yr with a 5k deductible. I don't know how much the message team pays you but they aren't getting their money's worth.

[NJmaverick]

114. Nice try but your numbers are completely made up and not reflective of the actual plan

[Yuugal]

115. If you had better numbers you would mention them right?

Where are they? Right now my kids get free healthcare. They are going to lose that and we can't afford to pay even 1 cent more than we pay to live now. Just because you think it is more important that Obama get a win than my kids get healthcare, doesn't mean us parents are going to agree with you. The so-called subsidies are going to be a sham and everyone but a few DLC-ers will admit it.

[NJmaverick]

117. Based on what you are saying, it sounds like you could go the Medicaid route

[Yuugal]

126. you can't have more than 2k

in assets if you want medicaid. Since I own a car, I'm out. Also, as a medicare recipient, I'm not gonna get medicaid anyway. I have medicare but my kids have SCHIP. They are going to lose their medical care so Obumble can make points with his rich friends. Anyone between 20k and 40k who has kids on SCHIP is going to be screwed hard which is exactly what our turncoat president and his owners want.

[seeinfweggos]

118. It’s On and IT’S MASSIVE– “Kill the Bill Rally” In DC!

"As a crowd of protesters shouted “kill the bill,” House Republicans on Thursday rallied opposition against the Democrats’ health care legislation, decrying the bill on the steps of Congress in a last-ditch bid to derail or at least delay the legislation heading toward a possible vote Saturday"

http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2009/11/its-on-and-its-massive-kill-the-bill-rally-in-dc/

[HuckleB]

121. So you're supporting teabag Repubs?

What?

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/16/illusions-and-bitterness/

[seeinfweggos]

124. no, just illuminating some overly transparent overlap

:-)

[HuckleB]

125. OK.

Well, call me confused, but that's not hard to do tonight.

Cheers!

:toast:

[NJmaverick]

122. The should shout "kill the people with out insurance" it would be more accurate

[seeinfweggos]

123. +1000

some people don't seem to realize that by casting their lot with the gop against reform they are helping the gop - and screwing over sick americans who can't get insurance.

[NJmaverick]

129. I suspect some of them do, but they simply don't care

[HuckleB]

119. Exactly.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/16/illusions-and-bitterness/

[cynatnite]

120. I honestly don't see this bill as it is doing much to help people. n/t

[HuckleB]

127. Do you know anything about the bill?

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/16/illusions-and-bitterness/

[CBR]

130. Where is the bill? I have not seen it yet. I would like to

know what I am for or against before making any conclusions.

[lonestarnot]

132. Good luck with dat.

[laughingliberal]

131. This bill is not going to save 40,000 lives per year.

Even the administration which is trying to sell us this pile estimate 20 million will still be left behind. In addition, their idea of affordable is another indication those inside the beltway have no idea what money is like in the real world. A lot of people will still die. Whoever took out the ban on imposing annual limits took care of that. Serious illness will still kill a lot of people and, disgustingly, will still kill people who have, 'coverage.'

There will be a few people helped. Those who already have enough money to puchase the overpriced, crap policies but have been denied due to preexisting conditions will get help they don't have now. Not enough help. They still face an annual limit.

Anyone making less than 400% of FPL will get a subsidy to help pay for their policy. They will be able to swing the premium, maybe. Their out of pocket costs will be prohibitive and many, just like now, will avoid accessing the system for fear of financial disaster. Medical bankruptcies will continue just as before.

People just outside the level to qualify for subsidies who are older will not be able to afford the premiums. No change for them at all except they get a nice fine added to their tax bill.

In addition to the fact that it is forcing people to spend too much of their own money for what they get in return, it will keep many people poor. I love this scenario-you're married, no kids. Combined income puts you at 400% of FPL, exactly. You're a bit older. You get a subsidy so you pay around 5800 a year for your premium. It's a stretch but, if you don't actually use the coverage, you're making it. You get a 5% raise. Your subsidy is gone. Your premium is now your sole responsibility and it's $1200 per month. You got a $241 dollar a month raise and an increase in your premium of more than $700 per month. How's that for a working/middle class destroying slap in the face?

[bvar22]

133. LOL.

The Health Insurance Cartel's Extortion Demand:

"Give us $1 Trillion Dollars, or we will let these people die.
The same as we have always done.
Give us that $Trillion Dollars, and we might just do something".

Hank Paulson would be proud.

And there are people on DU selling that shit.
There is only ONE way to deal with Extortionists.
Exterminate them.