Obama says: Gov. going bankrupt

[BeFree]

If we don't pass this bill, says the prez, the federal budget will be eaten up by Medicare.

So.... why haven't any of youse wise guys brought that up?

Is Obama pulling our collective legs? Is he making this up? He must be because of the 146,789 threads here on HCR not once has this been mentioned.

Whattsup?

[still_one]

1. Where's the link? /nt

[dana_b]

5. I thought he said it yesterday

and I heard it on Olbermann. I'll look for a link.

[still_one]

14. It is OK, he mentioned that in a general way at the beginning of the whole healthcare debate

The truth is, if the pass the HCR bill as it is currently in the Senate it will accelerate our path to financial disaster

without a public option we are screwed

[charlie]

20. Said it explicitly yesterday

He said it was "guaranteed" the fed will go bankrupt:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kbPdfLz1qg

[still_one]

24. Maybe he should have thought about that before comitting troops to Afghanistan

Thanks for the link

[charlie]

35. Yeah, coming this late

it sounds like a warning from a Soprano.

[still_one]

39. The whole thing has got me very depressed /nt

[mike_c]

2. well, for one thing, there's BUTTLOADS of money available to solve that problem...

...entirely equitably. Obama just has to stop giving away the farm to the Pentagon.

[JuniperLea]

3. That was one of the first things mentioned many months ago...

And many here, including myself, thought we should open up Medicare to anyone who isn't covered under an employer's or some other plan.

This isn't new at all.

[FiveGoodMen]

4. Yeah, the 30 billion he just decided to spend killing people who weren't attacking us has nothing to

do with it.

[Yupster]

16. Our deficit is $ 100 billion per month

The $ 30 billion would be a third of one month's deficit.

Things are way more out of control than that.

[FiveGoodMen]

18. Well, we're also giving money to Wall Street without any real reform.

I heard that will total in the trillions.

It doesn't sound like much, but it adds up to real money.

[Yupster]

48. Like I said

We're a lot more out of control than we realize.

Even without the current mess, we'd be talking about putting medicare and social security back in balance.

[Hannah Bell]

65. Social Security has run growing surpluses for 26 years. "Putting it in balance"

would require repaying 2 trillion dollars borrowed from US workers--much more than is owed to China.

That would require raising income taxes back to pre-Bush levels on the top 1% of tax-payers--you know, the ones who got unprecedented reductions from Bush, partly funded by the SS surpluses extracted from US workers.

"Putting SS & MC in balance" = code for ripping off the lower & middle class to fund the top.

[FiveGoodMen]

74. When it comes right down to it, there are X dollars to go around

and we have to decide how they get distributed.

If we stopped wasting the money (and the time and resources that the money represents) we'd be a lot better off.

Beyond that, what's happened is that interest groups have pressured politicians to set up the tax structure and other laws (like the minimum wage) so that they get to keep almost all of the money and then look at the rest of us, shrug, and say, "Gee, that's all there is left for you."

Things are out of control because of that. We didn't have to allow that to happen, and we don't have to allow it to go on now.

[AndrewP]

17. Exactly.

[amborin]

50. +500

[bbinacan]

6. No matter what passes,

we'll be bankrupt. The spending is out of control. Begun by Bush and accelerated by Obama.

[tridim]

7. From what I've read, it's true..

And it's exactly what the Republicans want. No medicare and a broke Democratic administration.

[readmoreoften]

8. Imagine all the cash we'll save if we pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq!

Money to kill strangers but none to keep Americans healthy.

[krabigirl]

21. of course...it's the Amerikan way.

[Vinnie From Indy]

9. Tell the government to get in the back of the line if it wants the free soup.

No cutters allowed.

[rucky]

10. Why didn't they use fear tactics in the first place?

That's what sold everyone on the war

:shrug:

[Vinnie From Indy]

Brilliant point!

Fear, it seems, is best used AGAINST progressives in the DEMOCRATIC party and not FOR single payer or even a public option. We always seem to be staring into business end of the fear gun.

[stray cat]

11. We are a long way past bankruptcy (thats without Medicare or anything else)

[SOS]

43. "Reagan proved deficits don't matter" - Dick Cheney 2002

As always, Republican Cheney was wrong. Deficits do matter.

But Japan, Germany, France and Belgium have higher public debt as percentage of GDP ratios than the US.
People aren't going berserk about it.
Under FDR, Truman and Eisenhower the US ratio was 60-120%. Under Bush 41 it was nearly 70%.
Japan is currently at 170%, but they have a higher standard of living than we do.

If we want $2.85 trillion, just let the Bush tax cuts expire next year. Remember that Shrub rammed through a $1.35 trillion tax cut in 2001 and a $1.5 trillion tax cut in 2003.

Lowering defense spending to Clinton levels would save $4 trillion over ten years.

Now mandate Swedish health spending levels ($2,750 per year/per person) in the US and we save another $14.6 trillion over 10 years.

Recap savings over ten years:

1. No Bush tax cuts = $2.85 trillion
2. Clinton level defense spending = $4 trillion
3. Swedish-level health spending = $14.6 trillion
+ Ban all aid to the private banking system. This will take uncertainty out of the system. Like us regular folks, they're on their own.

Total saved over ten years = $21.45 trillion.
National debt retired, return to surplus by 2018.

Rich people, defense contractors, private health insurance companies and bankers won't be happy, but it can be done.

[WeDidIt]

12. If Obama said it, take it with a truckload of salt

He said a public option was the best way to save money at one time.

[dysfunctional press]

13. i mentioned it here just yesterday...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7234733&mesg_id=7236751

we WON'T have to wait another 16 years...

ever-increasing healthcare costs will have bankrupted the country by then. if something else doesn't do it first.

in response to this-

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7234733&mesg_id=7236308

Dunno. On the one hand, I think that Obama really really really wants a bill passed.

Edited on Wed Dec-16-09 01:17 AM by SemiCharmedQuark
If we kill it, he might consider reconciliation much more seriously. I think that's what Dr. Dean is getting at.

On the other, I'm afraid we'll have to wait another 16 years.


now, you were saying...? :shrug:

[stray cat]

15. How can anyone be so naive to think we are not in debt? Where is the common sense?

[krabigirl]

19. Then stop funding endless fucking wars.

[Individualist]

22. Hear, hear!

Those are some kind of priorities he has. :mad:

[krabigirl]

28. Seriously..it's very sad.

[W_HAMILTON]

23. Yep.

Isn't defense the largest expenditure of our national government?

Cut back on that.

[Common Sense Party]

59. No, Medicare is the largest expenditure.

Medicare and Social Security dwarf defense.

[W_HAMILTON]

67. I wonder what I saw, then...

...it was a pie chart showing that defense was like 50% of the chart, but if it's not total expenditures, I don't know what it could have been referencing. Do you know?

[Common Sense Party]

73. That was probably only showing discretionary parts of the budget.

In other words, it's a misleading chart that shows some of the federal budget but leaves out the HUGE entitlement spending of Medicare, Social Security, Medicaid, etc.

Perhaps it was something like this:


Yes, defense is the biggest part of our discretionary budget--what Congress can choose to spend more or less on--but it is not the biggest part of the overall federal budget. Medicare is.

The real budget would look something like this:



That one's a little old, and it looks like Social Security, not Medicare, is the bigger entitlement expenditure. That will change in the next few years.

[BeHereNow]

30. STOP making sense! "National security!!!" "National interests!!!"

Focus on the talking points, would you?

BHN

[FiveGoodMen]

76. "...our Glorious Fatherland!"

I mean, Homeland.

[leftstreet]

34. +1

[Bushknew]

46. Exactly nt

[Libertas1776]

25. Ripped right from the fear tactics guide book

of Bush Cheney. Big surprise there :sarcasm:

[walldude]

26. IS there a link to this, because I still have hope for Obama but if

he's going to attempt to blackmail us then there is no hope at all...

[BeHereNow]

33. Mushroom cloud! Economic crash! Terrorists under your bed!

Where have we seen these tactics before?

BHN

[charlie]

36. Yes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kbPdfLz1qg

[slipslidingaway]

44. Thanks for the link and he just flat out lied that this bill is the best ...

chance to bend the cost curve on expenditures.

[dgibby]

27. This is closely related:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7245124

[natrat]

29. let's see, 23 trillion to the banks doesn't have anything to do with it ,does it?

[Individualist]

32. Of course not

Neither do the trillions spent on the occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq.

:sarcasm:
:sarcasm:
:sarcasm:
:sarcasm:

[Kitsune]

31. Then ROLL BACK THE REAGAN TAX CUTS

This isn't fucking rocket science!

[sad sally]

52. Wasn't that the campaign rant we heard over and over?

Taxes were going to be raised on those making over $250,000? Another change we can't believe in.

[Luciferous]

37. And then we won't have any more money for war...

:nopity:

It's just more bullshit.

[DURHAM D]

38. Be afraid - be very afraid!!!

Sounds like Obama has hired Bush's old speech writer.

[natrat]

51. yea how about that folksy populist fat cat banker talk the other day, revolting

[StarfarerBill]

40. End our foreign wars, tax the rich, and stop them from moving wealth overseas.

Oh, and do something about the debt, too.

[Edweird]

41. Make the wealthy pay their fair share and end two pointless wars.

Then talk about raising taxes.

[David Zephyr]

42. At the last fucking moment, he resorts to fearmongering?

That's pathetic.

[Karmadillo]

45. Massive famine if this bill doesn't pass. Guaranteed.

nt

[Union Yes]

47. Communist China will save our ass...nt

[amborin]

49. is this fear-mongering? sounds like it

[Individualist]

62. What's next - God will call me home if the bill isn't passed?

[WeCanWorkItOut]

53. The President is mistaken. Medicare inflation must be controlled. Many ways to do that

Peter Orszag has been talking a long time about how
it's not even the aging of the Baby Boomers that is the problem.
It's just the rate at which Medicare costs have been rising,
mainly due to technological change, and, I would argue,
increased monopoly power by doctors and hospitals,
and abuses of imaging, etc.

These problems could be managed.
But they don't have to be managed by hurting the elderly so much,
and burdening the working class so heavily,
as the Democrats propose to do.

[amborin]

64. just wait til Brad de Long gets to be Treas secy, he wants to end Soc Sec

[lonestarnot]

54. He's had about a year to rip back the richie tax cut. Nada zip nutt'n

[BlueIdaho]

55. "Pass this bill or I'll shoot this dog"

I swear he's just making this shit up as he goes along...

I mean really this is getting fucking laughable.

[L0oniX]

56. This is why...

http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm



Stop the fucking wars and close the over seas bases.

[Marr]

57. Amazing how important the budget becomes when you're talking about

actual Americans, as opposed to "American interests".

We've always got money for banks, wars, etc. Price is no object.

[democracy1st]

66. +1

[earth mom]

58. Stop the fucking wars Obama-that's where the money is being wasted.

Check out the cost of the wars so far-OVER 900 BILLION!!!

http://www.costofwar.com/

[Swamp Rat]

60. Ok, so lay off the republicans, and cut off their free health insurance.

And stop funding the military industrial complex through illegal wars.

That'll save a lot of money.

[Cleita]

61. Medicare is being eaten up by

1) Medicare Advantage programs. Plans that are run by private insurance, according to their rules, but that Medicare has to give them money for if the stupid senior citizen involved signs up for them. Believe me they are no advantage regardless of what they promise. My husband got hoodwinked into one of them to his great regret.

2) Medicare Part D, the prescription drug plan of donut hole fame. But there is more to it than that. First there is no Medicare plan to buy into. You have to purchase it from a private insurance company. Next, there is no cost control for the pharmaceuticals. They can charge what they like and Medicare has to pay. This program was originally conceived of as a way to bankrupt Medicare by Republicans so that it would be legislated out of existence.

Get rid of the Medicare Advantage programs and offer seniors full coverage and prescription drugs for an additional premium to be determined by Medicare and deducted from their SS, it will put Medicare back on track and probably cost much less than the seniors are shelling out for additional insurance and/or copays, etc. today.

[Hannah Bell]

71. +1. Seems like the modern strategy is to pass legislation to take down

the new deal by stealth.

[Toasterlad]

63. You Seem To Have Plenty of Money For Your Wars, Obama,

Take your whining and shove it up your lying ass.

[laughingliberal]

68. Yes, and HR 676 would have saved Medicare and covered the whole damned country but noooo

The insurance companies deserve their profits. This bill provides a bandaid for Medicare, at best. We'll be back looking at Medicare going broke very soon. Berananke is talking "entitlement reform." I did not hear him say, "unless you pass the Senate bill, then Medicare is saved."

[Xicano]

69. You know I thought I'd never say this to a democratic president.

Obama, why don't you just STFU! and go fuck yourself!

[Ganja Ninja]

70. It's funny he didn't mention the possibility of bankruptcy in connection

with the wars or the bailouts?:wtf:

[comtec]

72. Eliminate the $100,000 dollar cap on Soc Sec, POOF infinite money for medicare and Soc Sec

In addition the Government needs to own and operate at least ONE generic drug factory.
Everyone on Gov assistance has to get those first, if possible...and since the government has FUNDED NEARLY ALL MEDICAL RESEARCH IN THE LAST 100+ YEARS, we should OWN the fucking rights to ALL drugs, to be made "generically"

That would save countless billions a year right there.

Beyond that simply enforcing the tax law on corporations and the rich would also rake in billions.

That's without even rolling the TOP RATE taxes to where they were during the gop's fap-fest-favorite ray-gun.

poof enough money to start pay down the debt and give everyone health care. hell there may even be money left over for their little wars.

But common sense has no place in governemnt, especially not the current American one.

I'm so ashamed to be happy to be living over seas. i WANT to be proud to be an American but I just am not.

I am a American-European now =\

-A patriot in Exile

[Greyhound]

75. "The Audacity of fear".

Too bad, so sad.