Communism is patriotic.

[Union Yes]

Without the $12 TRILLION dollar lifeline from Communist China, America dies.

I can think of no greater example of patriotism than what Communism has provided for America. Life support.

We owe a debt of gratitude to Communist China along with $12 Trillion in debt.

:patriot:

[Ken Burch]

1. Well...maybe...but is China really still "communist"?

n/t.

[razorman]

2. Apparently, they are better capitalists than we are.

[KansDem]

5. Don't forget Vietnam!

I remember the 1960s and 1970s: The Viet Cong was going to roll over South Vietnam and right down into Australia, then they'll be marching downtown Main Street, USA!!!

We were to fear them! Fear and loathe them because they ran contrary to everything we believed in! You know: "Peace, Liberty, Freedom (and "Choice"--don't forget "Choice." Americans have always been a stickler for "Choice"). We were looking under our beds for the dreaded Communist!

Then Clinton normalized relations with Vietnam in 1995 (20 years after we lost the Vietnam War and lost some 58,000 American troops), and US Corporations fell all over each other trying to get in there and set up their factories and fast-food places. The very US Corporations that warned us for decades about North Vietnam.

Now you can buy garments at Target with the label, "Made in Vietnam."

[cliffordu]

3. Good question. I dunno anymore....

:shrug:

[Ken Burch]

4. I mean, I thought Communist countries had full employment

and decent healthcare. That's not how they roll in Maoland these days.

[Union Yes]

7. 12 Trillion Dollars has been sucked out of their coffers in the past 30 years to prop up..

American Supply-side Capitalism.

I'd expect Chinese gov't services to suffer as a result. No?

[harkadog]

13. No.

Nothing has been "sucked" out of their coffers. The Chinese have not been forced to give us anything. They invest in the U.S. because they make money off the investment.

[David__77]

6. Why can't communism be patriotic?

The Communist Party USA was quite patriotic during most of its existence, at the forefront of the war effort against Germany, etc. They even said "Communism is 21th Century Americanism." I know that's not your point, however.

[Union Yes]

8. I agree with your point 100%. If it matters. nt

[David__77]

9. I happen to believe that China is a capitalist country ruled by communists.

There is no contradiction. Lenin called for capitalism to be used in the Soviet Union too; Stalin ended that after his death. The point was that communists could guide a rapid march through capitalist development through reining in the anarchic elements of the market and establishing state control of strategic sectors. It actually makes sense, and has enabled the Chinese ruling party to not just hold on, but indeed to consolidate its political position greatly.

[Ken Burch]

10. I have heard the term "Market Stalinism" used to describe China's current set-up

The Party has made massive compromises on the socialist aspect of their program, all of which have had negative results for the Chinese people, but have made no compromises at all on their use of political and intellectual repression. Free speech is utterly nonexistent system.

Essentially, they would rather abandon the workers than give up absolute power.

Another reason I've never been a CP type.

[Union Yes]

11. Perhap in the past 3 years. We were already $8 Trillion in debt with China since they've become..

quasi capitalist.

Point is, full blown Communism still funded US supply side capitalism for the previous 25+ years before China became partially capitalist.

[Union Yes]

12. You're right about the absolute power comment. However, state Communism is another beast vs ..

democratically elected communism.

[Ken Burch]

14. Well, any CP that seeks power democratically

needs to abandon "vanguardism". If they can do that, it might work.

[David__77]

15. Why is that?

What's wrong with "vanguardism?" I think that this is not related directly with a one party system. There are certainly examples of cadre-based, Leninist parties that have had electoral success in a pluralistic framework. What tends to happen to the "mass party" is that it becomes social democratic - that is largely a function of the fact that, spontaneously, people gravitate to the ruling ideological framework in society. That said, I have no desire to be a cadre.

[David__77]

16. Well, they see what happened to Russia.

The lesson they have drawn within the Chinese party is that there must be no compromise in terms of basic state structure. Now, that said, there is a LOT more room for dissension and discussion than there was 30 years ago or more, or was the case in the Soviet-led "socialist community." So long as the basic state power and economic relations are not disturbed, people are allowed to say whatever pretty much.