A lot of you guys say that you're mad...

[MrScorpio]

But, what I'm really hearing from you guys is that you're frustrated.

Of course, you have every right to be frustrated. Things are really messed up, aren't they?

Well, pretty much NOTHING is going as planned. Too many people with too many opposing motivations are screwing every thing up. Guess what, for some people who have a lot of stake in the status quo, THAT really is the plan.

That's what we're up against... The Top Two Percent. And they're circling their wagons right now and calling in all their markers. They have too many people working for them, instead of us, in Government and those people who are aptly called "Teabaggers" are working for them too (even if they're too apoplectic to know it).

Let me tell you what I'd love to hear (Me and a few others):

- How can progressives organize and act to counter the efforts of the Top Two Percent?

- How can we stop one half of the remaining ninety-eight percent from trying to destroy the other half?

- What is it going to take to get those in Government to act in behalf of the majority rather than the monied few?

- How are we going to make the media pay for being willing fifth columnists for their corporate masters, rather than being a forth estate for the good of the truth?

- What is it going to take to undo the permanent war economy, which drains lives and resources and promotes conflict, rather than deters it?

Until fundamental changes are made to bring democracy to the forefront, rather than the corporatism which serves the interests of the Top Two Percent, none of us should expect anything else except the present state of affairs. We've been expecting short cuts. But, it should be of no surprise that they haven't been working.

Rather that frustration which you can call it anger or outrage or disappointment or whatever, what really we need are calm, cool and viable answers. Answers that are straightforward and that can be implemented in a realistic and practical fashion.

In other words, it's time to be results oriented.

I have to hand it to DUers, who as a rule are a really smart bunch of folks. But what I'm getting right now is a bunch of frustrated outrage.

Unfortunately, the result of outrage is that it usually draws attention on itself and usually only for its own sake.

So unless progressives and DUers and Dems with properly motivated priorities get their act together, realistically we should only expect more suffering and the continuing frustration that goes along with it.

You can go ahead now and let it all hang out.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[eleny]

2. MrS, if this bill gets passed as it's written...

... the Teabaggers will be way ahead of us. Honest to god but they'll be marching ahead of us. Protests will be spontaneous and massive.

Americans simply cannot afford this steaming pile o' crap of a blue plate special.

[MrScorpio]

6. There's a possibility that the bill's passage will be the straw that breaks the camel's back

Which could be the impetus for removing the corporate whores and getting HC done right in the long run.

But that requires action

[spanone]

50. see what happens if the teabaggers shoot this bill down. they will own us.

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. I think the trouble is that a lot of people have worked very, very hard first to get Obama

elected and then to keep his and the Congress' feet to the fire in various ways.

That's the difference between ** rage and Obama rage. The first was born of impotence and knowing that nothing you could do would make a difference. The second was born of crushed hopes; being told that people could now make a difference and expect positive changes, but then it turned out that that wasn't the case at all. So it's like ** rage plus a feeling of betrayal right there.

That's what I think I am hearing anyway.

[MrScorpio]

10. Let me tell you what I think about that

It's misplaced focus.

Too many people were concentrated on Junior's fuck ups rather than looking at the big picture. The thing is that nothing he did happened in a vacuum. There are plenty of elements which were already present in this country that allowed him to do what he did.

To Junior's credit, he went completely apeshit with the carte blanche.

The problem is that that too many of us were mistaken that a change at the top would automatically trickle down. However, without fundamental alterations to the political economic and political support system, all changes are futile.

Few people are giving Obama any credit that he's focused on stopping the system from collapsing and restoring some semblance of stability rather than creating much needed progressive change.

Which is, of course, why we're frustrated.

I think that the change we demand should really start at the bottom and have it move up.

Knocking Obama's legs from under him is not going to help our position at all.

[GreenPartyVoter]

11. You are right that it didn't start with **. Definitely went way further back than that. The

question is why weren't we able to get that trickle down effect? Things looked so good when we got Obama and a Blue Hill. It really did seem like the possibilities of making huge strides in a lot of areas were there.

I guess we underestimated the difficulty in getting things done in Congress, and the fact that bills and projects and whatever would not be set up the way we on the Left would have liked to have seen them or that the Repubs and Dinos would have such enormous power. I think those are the bitter pills we've had to swallow once reality set in.

As far as Obama's legs, I want to see him remain standing on things he is doing well, but why can't we poke him a bit on issues that he's dropping (or passing) the ball on?

I'm not sure what to do. I've been calling and writing people in DC, including Obama. It doesn't seem to make a difference that I can see. :( I just don't know what to do to be heard. I know I am not the only one who feels this way and there are plenty of other people writing and calling, so it's not a lone effort. Would taking to the streets really do it? Does that even work anymore?

How do we change things from the bottom so that it impacts policy?

[MrScorpio]

14. To create change, I think that we're going to have to act as a focused force

I think that we have to figure out what we want to say first and then move together on it.

[Goldstein1984]

27. I think we want to say:

"Stop putting Wall Street before Main Street. Fulfill the promises that got you our vote. Do not perpetuate Bush/Cheney policies. Get us out of useless wars before more of our children die unnecessarily."

At least that's what I'm telling him in all my emails.

If he doesn't do all of that, then I'll tell him with my vote in 2012.

Until then, I'm holding his feet to the fire.

I don't hate Obama, I find him a major disappointment. He is still WHO I voted for, but no longer WHAT I voted for.

[rwheeler31]

4. You are correct of course, the feelings are understandable.

We need to redirect our anger and brainstorm.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

5. The Democrats whining are whining because the country was hurt by the GOP for decades

The problem is that these same Democrats did little or nothing during those decades of Republicans.

Of course, now they're whining because they want everything the GOP broke, fixed in a day.

[kayla9170]

18. Exactly, and who are we whining too

OURSELVES over the internet. I have yet to see ONE March on Washington on Healthcare from the Progressives, Huff Post, Daily Kos or Dems. Underground Folks. What I do see is the Teabaggers, who have organized (in fake numbers or not) on Washington to push the debate on something we should have OWNED....this Health Care Policy. Were was our protesting, were was our threats....Hell, I never forget when I attended our Congressman Dingell town hall. God Bless this Man, he talked to a room full of Teabaggers about the Health Care Bill....getting shouted at, threaten and attacked. I could COUNT on two hands, twice, the number of actually "Progressives" or "Democrats" that came out to support our Congressman.

IMHO we have no one to blame on how this crap turned out, but ourselves. Change without protest is not any Change at All and we sat on our backsides after the November 7th, 2008, election and expected magic to happen on its' own.

[xiamiam]

40. we were waiting ..hoping..but the time has come to get to the streets

sheehan will be opening camp out now on march 13...its a target date..hopefully, many more will be organized nationwide around the same time...its not just the war this time..its the millions who've lost their homes, jobs...nothing left for us to do...ii've got good congress people who represent my interests basically..but they are few..and we are many

[Sarah Ibarruri]

42. Where were you when the Repukes were doing all the damage that caused this to happen?

Every time I ask that, everyone shuts up.

[Xicano]

34. Sorry, but, I couldn't disagree more

Democrats are pissed off because the Democratic leadership isn't fixing shit, they're picking up where the GOP left off and further breaking shit.

n/t

[Sarah Ibarruri]

43. Really. And where were you all those decades of Repukes hurting this country till it culminated

in all this?

Oh NOW you want it all fixed in a day, isn't that right? After doing nothing during decades of Repukes.

[Xicano]

48. Where was I?

I'll tell you where I was. Working with the political action committee in my union the ILWU including helping several other unions during their labor disputes and made two trips to Washington DC. Also participated in three anti-war marches in the Hollywood area. Also, along with fellow longshoreman, donating money in our "Yes We Can" fund to help feed, cloth and give secondary educations to poor kids in our community. In addition, always taking the time to write letters to my Senator Barbara Boxer.

I noticed you chose not to dispute my statement, rather, you just threw out a incorrect presumptive question and statement about me when you don't even know me. And you keep going on about "fixing." Allow me to repeat. The Democratic leadership isn't fixing shit, they're further breaking shit. At this rate shit will NEVER get fixed much less during this Congress and Administration. Wake up!

You can keep kidding yourself that our party isn't just the other side of the corporate coin, perpetuating the wall street/washington dc status quo. But all that makes you is just part of the problem instead of part of the solution. The first step to recovery is admitting to yourself inconvenient truths.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

53. What did you do to get the Republicans out of office? I'm not interested in hearing how you showed

how much you disliked war. We all dislike war. Did you think Repukes were going to listen to your march?

What did you do to actually fight the Republican machine and promote the Democratic Party, so the damage done to this country would not have happened over the decades it did?

[Xicano]

56. You clearly are not understanding.

I guess I'll have to treat this like food for a little kid and chop it up into small bites. Number one, my actions in providing relief for those in immediate need as a result of republicanism shortens the amount of time I have to "fight the repub machine." I guess you're the type person that would leave a hit and run victim on the side of the road in an attempt to try and chase down the driver. Although I doubt very much you'd lift your finger in either case, I may be incorrect, but I doubt it.

Secondly, what do you think a union political action committee is doing for eight years of republicanism run a muck? What do you think we're taking the time and expense to go to Washington for? What do you think my participation in anti-war marches in Hollywood is about if not to stop these unlawful republican launched wars?

Now that I have been nice enough to respond to your questions, lets hear what YOU have done besides being a corporate policy cheerleader and a keyboard commando?

n/t

[Sarah Ibarruri]

58. I'm saying that if you didn't spend all your time whining for decades of GOP

but reserved your energies to whine about Democrats, then I don't exactly admire you.

[Xicano]

59. In other words you haven't done anything

but yet make presumptuous opinions about others. Its pretty much the hypocrisy I figured.

n/t

[Sarah Ibarruri]

61. Oh you bet I have. However, I attacked the enemy, the Repugs, not the Democrats

What have you done? Whine and whine some more?

[jonnyblitz]

39. i don't know how many times we have to repeat this to you

ignorant fucking apologists but we aren't complaining about his SPEED we are complaining about his DIRECTION.


yeah, we are upset because he isn't escalating war in Afghanistan fast enough. :sarcasm:

[Sarah Ibarruri]

44. It would've helped if you'd been off your keister when the Repukes that caused all this

were doing all the damage during decades.

But it's so much easier to do nothing about Repukes for decades, then when a lib goes into office, expect him to fix everything in a day.

[gleaner]

60. I find it difficult to absorb ...

that anyone is still talking in terms of the "shortness" of time Obama has had to "fix" things. He has fixed things. In fact he has fixed them so poorly we will probably suffer for many more decades in the same way that we have under the Republicans.

In fact he has had quite a while to indicate that his priorities are to change this country's direction and he has in fact used this time to let us all know that what he said when he ran for office doesn't mean anything, and that continuing the old priorities are what he intends to do.

I have responded to this argument many times before and I am sorry some of you still believe so strongly in Obama's good intentions, because there is only so long you can close your eyes to what is happening around you and then you will crash in flames when you finally do see that your leader has feet of lead. Instead of focusing on OP and demanding to know what we have or have not done to stop Republicans, when most of us have done plenty, why don't you focus on what Obama has not done to stop Republicans when he has virtually adopted their agenda. Also, why doesn't that bother you?

This whole thing reminds me of the old Who song "Won't Be Fooled Again." Sometime you should Google the lyrics and read them or listen to the song. Much of it pertains to this situation. Especially the last line, "Meet the new Boss. Same as the old Boss." Too bad for all of us that this is no longer surmise and wishful thinking, it is a fact.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

62. I find it amazing to see that people who warmed the chairs for decades of GOPers are suddenly out

there fighting the 1st Democrat in a while.

[gleaner]

63. So you think that ....

Because I have problems with Obama and his bad choices and lack of leadership I must be a Republican? Sorry, wrong. I have been a Democrat and an activist since I was 15 years old. I have been spat on, hit with night sticks, threatened with arrest by armed police, kicked by Nazis and nearly run over by a car when someone disagreed with my attempts to get shoppers to boycott grapes so that the workers who picked them could unionize and earn a living. I have been called more names than I can say here circulating petitions to legalize abortions when the only way you could make a choice was with a coat hanger, and was smacked several times in the process as well.

I watched my friends go and die in Viet Nam while I demonstrated in the streets and worked with the peace movement under police surveillance to try to keep others from being drafted. I circulated petitions then too and suffered the consequences for speaking out against an effective if mistaken Democratic president who was determined to continue that war even though the majority of his constituents eventually wanted him to end it. That clears up what I did. Apparently you are so incapable of holding a bad Democratic president to his own promises, or any type of decent behavior regarding health care, war, torture, unconstitutional laws, negotiating meaningful climate control or any other freaking thing he should be doing that all you can do is take cheap shots at people who want him to do his job the way he said he would, and not like the Republicans you seem to be such an expert on.

By refusing to open your eyes and look around you at the misery Obama is causing you enable him to go on causing it. Are you familiar with the word enable? It is used to describe a situation where someone is behaving in a way that will harm both themselves and others around them and you pretend that their behaviors are perfectly alright. Therefore they have no consequences, no learning curve, no accountability and you are partly responsible for permitting the behavior by either remaining silent or giving active support, as you do in your post. Don't blame anyone here on this forum for what Obama does. He is a grown man elected by a sympathetic majority with a large mandate. He has chosen to disregard that and act as a shill for others who despise real Democratic values.

I am not responsible for his actions. I am only responsible for my actions. I am not responsible for what the Republicans have done since I have never voted for them, supported them or in fact done anything to enable them. Do we have that straight? Now is the time for you to take responsibility for yourself, your remarks and your own actions or lack of them. So now for all of us whom you have chosen to attack this way, what have YOU done to oppose the "decades" of Republican policy. Something? Anything? Anything at all besides take cheap shots on a message board? That's easy. Anyone can do it, and it is a great substitute for opening your eyes and trying to figure out how this is going to end if Obama carries his new agenda through to its logical conclusion. It won't be pretty, but of course it is always somebody else's fault isn't it? You have no responsibility for it at all and of course neither does the man who caused it all. Your beloved "Democratic" president. I don't see any vestige of the Democrat in him, so you tell me, what do you see that is so compelling? Take your time, I'm sure you can think of something.

[laughingliberal]

45. I gotta tell you, I don't expect everything fixed in a day and I'm tired of that

snide, little slam. What I do expect is that they quit going that direction. Can't reverse course on some things, quickly? Understood. Passing fucking laws pushing us further down the wrong path? Fail

[readmoreoften]

7. My first suggestion is to make peace with the left, end red baiting, be willing to fight right wing

Democrats--even if that right-wing Democrat is Obama. Many of the successful protests in this country are maintained by socialist organizations who are seasoned organizers. Union leaders and leftist organizers have national networks and know how to coordinate. Massive protests are one thing, but they have to lead to actual, specific demands or heightened tactics such as mass boycotts and mass strikes.

Run progressive primary challengers; stay united with folks who vote third party and who don't vote, but who organize.

Thousands upon thousands of people are awakening the notion that they have no political representation, no political power, no political voice. We need to stand in solidarity with one another and be one another's voice. Instead of saying "your needs aren't as important" we need cries of "what about those folks! they need help!"

Elections are something; solidarity is everything.

[laughingliberal]

46. +1000 nt

[sharesunited]

8. Trying to fix everything in one bill seems overly ambitious.

Focus on one thing at a time, debate it on the merits, and either pass it or, if it fails, introduce it again.

[BeFree]

9. Answer

More representation. the more the better.

A congress full of common people, 1,000 or 2,000 strong.

Using the internet to communicate and vote and seen by everyone the new improved congress would have to do the bidding of the people.

Heh, I know, I know, pissing in the wind....

[GreenPartyVoter]

12. More representation won't be any different unless

we change the way they are elected. Ranked voting of some kind, public money funded campaigns only, open debates, proportional representation, auditable voting systems, a new fairness doctrine or at least equal airtime per candidate. Those are the things that will make a difference in D.C. in my book. :)

[BlueIdaho]

16. Amen! Say it again!

The notion of corporate free speech has broken Washington.

[BeFree]

19. More people to bribe

If we have 5 times as many reps it would be nearly impossible to bribe all of them in the same fashion.

The current crop of critters you would be asking them to give up their gravy trains, ain't gonna happen. But by making the work of the people be done on the internet - much as DU does - it would expose the process to a lot of eyes.

And take the power away from a centralized power structure like DC has become.

Frankly, I am perplexed why no one but me and George Washington have this idea of having one rep for every 30,000 citizens. <grin>

[GreenPartyVoter]

20. Old George had no idea how massive our population was going to become, though. I bet his

eyes would bug out to see a modern census. LOL

[BeFree]

25. heh

Imagine what he'd do with a computer. He'd be a DUer, i'd bet.

Now if we could just move the DU system up a level, or two.
Imagine sitting here reading the debates between our reps.
Of course we'd be non-members, just lurkers, if you will.
They'd have to be on their best behaviors and we'd be able to hold them to their words.

[Odin2005]

13. We need to take money out of politics.

Elections should be publically financed.

[EFerrari]

15. Meanwhile, the police are beating the shit out of activists outside the Bella Center.

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/12/16/climate_crackdown_un_bars_friends_of

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/12/16/police_tear_gas_beat_back_protesters

We're just having a bad day.

[hfojvt]

24. In Denmark?

I thought Amerika was supposed to be the only fascist country in the west. Certainly not one of the enlightened utopias of Scandahoovia.

[EFerrari]

38. People are being pre-emptively arrested. It's really, really bad. n/t

[Toasterlad]

17. No, I'm Mad.

I've been mad since Donnie McClurkin, and I've seen extremely little in the intervening months to ease my anger.

I believe Obama and his DINO cronies have completely sold out America. I'm glad that I'm not surprised: I'd hate to think how it must feel to have actually BELIEVED in Obama and then have to witness the things he's done (and not done) since taking office.

[madfloridian]

21. It is time for the party to address our frustration and not joke about it.

And not insult good people who stand up for what they believe.

I have my act together. They need to get theirs together.

[WT Fuheck]

22. let's start passing out pitchforks

[kayla9170]

30. Get My Pitch Folk Ready, I am FIRED UP!!!

Ready to go!! Let's show Washington how much WE count in this debate!!!

[dysfunctional press]

23. three DECADES of 'frustration' has made me incredibly ANGRY.

damn right i'm mad.

i've called and called and called my reps and the white house- and i'm past tired of doing so.

i'd like to see a gigantic march of MILLIONS of angry/frustrated voters converging on dc DEMANDING single-payer healthcare for ALL.
as i've said before- i can be on the road in two hours or less, and take up to 6 more people in my van to go to dc, ANYTIME.

[upi402]

32. Me too. Activist for decades, but done

I never voted for, donated to, or volunteered for any NAFTA loving, anti-worker politician. Either party. Clinton woke me up, though I was a delegate for other nominees.

The summer should peak the suffering.

[wiggs]

26. Calm cool answer: progressives CANT do it alone. Progressives, by ourselves,

can't organize and win against the top 2%. Not enough of us and certainly not enough money behind the progressives.

So what has to be done is get past this fabricated epic battle between left and right to expose and join the real battle. The 95% of us, left and right, who care about quality of life, fairness, justice, societal stability, democracy, science, facts, honesty, reality, vote integrity, dignity, etc need to band together to establish appropriate laws and to elect people to fairly implement them.

That's the way forward...which is why so much money and effort has been utilized to promote polarization, fear, hate, and misunderstanding. Unification is a tremendous threat. Real understanding of the issues based on reason and facts is a huge threat.

Thought we had someone that could unify. Might still happen...too soon to tell, and I don't like that.

[Goldstein1984]

28. What if we could get a lot of people to just stop buying "stuff"

Since money is all the political and economic elite care about, and since consumerism supports 70% of the economy, maybe if we just organized and giant consumer boycott...?

Yes, it would hurt people employed selling things. I can't think of a way to fight a war without incurring some casualties. Or, we could just target a single day--a demonstration of power--show them we are organized.

I can't think of anything else that people can do regardless of where in the nation they are, regardless of how much money they have.

I'm just tossing out an idea. Maybe a stupid one, I don't know.

[Swamp Rat]

29. My definition of "mad" matches up nicely with your "frustrated outrage"

[EmeraldCityGrl]

31. I'm not bad or frustrated...

It's profound disappointment and the realization that at this point in life I was able to
be so smitten and believe so deeply that Obama would be a president of historically significance.
He was to be my generation's Kennedy or Roosevelt. As naive as that may sound, that was
my hope. Now, I feel like a damn fool.

I'm buying Howard Zinn's "The People's History of The United States" and try to make some
sense of all of this.

[FSogol]

33. The Democrats real problem is that they can't present their positions effectively

and that allows the opposition to set the agenda and the media willingly goings along. The Democratic party needs a "message setter" similar to what people like Grover Norquist do for the GOP.

[boston bean]

35. did it ever occur to you

that they don't want to present their positions effectively?

[FSogol]

36. No. I've been a Democrat my whole life and believe in what they stand for.

Just because things are working out correctly wouldn't make me lash out in hatred or frustration at my own party. It just means we have more work to do. The real reason we don't have the Norquist model in our party is because our tent encompasses a wider range than the anti-intellectual Repubs. Somebody on our side needs to try and explain Democratic principles and issues to the American people better.

[xiamiam]

41. no..someone needs to explain democratic principles to our elected reps..nt

[treestar]

37. They don't have a right to frustration

Thinks take time. Most worthwhile things take effort and hard work. If you give up due to frustration, it's called immaturity. No one looks good crying at inability to get something right off. If I work on a project and meet obstacles, running off in frustration and screaming not only means I will make no progress and not figure out how to solve the problem, it means I lack character to finish a tough task.

[rucky]

47. There is a way, but you won't like my answer (re-post):

The best cover for the corpratists is the party-line divisions - mostly perpetuated by the culture wars. Because of the social divisions - the uber wealthy get to influence politicians on both sides of the aisle, and can count on a base of support for their handpicked sellouts no matter what. The well-financed will get the nomination, and most likely the seat. Once they're in, it's really hard to get the sellouts out of Congress or the Senate.

Safe to say that with the Congress we have now - we will not get campaign reform. The people we're expecting to pass reform are the same people benefitting from the current system (they won their last election). It's not going to happen.

Now this is where you have to do something unpleasant, so stay with me...

The only way to get campaign reform is to unseat the corporate sellouts. The most effective way to do that is to put aside D/R partisanship, and see the struggle for what it really is - a straight-up class war. Ideas aren't going to lead people to the light - there will always be partisan divisions, but there is an anticorporate element coming from both ends of the spectrum.

The tea party movement is a mixed bag of crazy - but its origins were in reaction to Paulsen's first big bank bailout: The largest act of corporate welfare we've ever seen. Then Geithner got his turn.

Michael Moore's Capitalism: A Love Story sheds like on this. We don't talk about that movie much here anymore - and I think it's because the Teabaggers have co-opted and completely ruined the central message. But the sentiment is still there - it's just now in the fringes of the Dem power structure. Why is that? Partisanship has made us rationalize a crime that outraged us when a Republican did it, but mollified us when it was supported by our team.

I am proposing an unholy alliance between progressives and the libertarian wing of the Right - aimed at the Corporatists in Congress. The fringes of each party have the greatest stake in campaign finance reform. They both detest "corporate welfare" - albeit for entirely different reasons. But there's a shred of common ground there that will give us out best shot at bringing reform.

"No Corporate Welfare" needs to be our mantra.

Unholy Alliance: Step 2

We don't need a third party. We need a third and fourth party. This is something else we can get the Teabagging types to agree on. The only thing keeping them in the GOP is that if they broke off, they fear more Dem rule from an imbalance of power. Sound familiar? Every time we talk about our own third party, the logic is easily shot down for the same reasons, different result. The way to balance that out - and make dissastifed members of both parties break without hesitation - would be to create a third and forth party simulaneously.

We'll work on unseating the Corporate Welfare Dems, they work on unseating the Corporate Welfare Republicans. The ones in will have more incentive to pass campaign reform to keep their seats - because they will be challenged, not supported, by the DNC/RNC money, power and influence (corporate money, corporate power, corporate influence).

With fair elections, ideas would be central. We can beat the teabaggers on ideas any day.

[HughMoran]

49. I agree - the outrage seems to be misdirected

I've made several comments on this subject recently that screaming at other folks who simply don't express their frustration in such an outward manner doesn't accomplish anything - unless the goal is to be 'right' and to hurt other peoples' feelings. It's a waste of effort screaming at everything that moves and accomplishes nothing. It's no wonder some commentators are taking pot-shots at liberal blogs. It's no wonder that coming to DU lately has amplified my SAD & made me feel even more depressed. This place is depressing. I would understand if I though something was being accomplished by all the screaming, but as the O/P says very well "unless progressives and DUers and Dems with properly motivated priorities get their act together, realistically we should only expect more suffering and the continuing frustration that goes along with it."

[H2O Man]

51. Too late to recommend.

I wish I had read this earlier. Wonderful OP.

I've been outlining an essay in my mind, regarding how I think progressives and liberals can organize on the grass roots' level, to make their voices heard in a positive way. Obviously, my ideas are limited to the experiences that I have had over the years. Others here will have different ideas and suggestions.

This OP/thread is, in my opinion, representative of what DU is at its best.

[Telly Savalas]

52. Please share your essay here when you have it written.

This board is flooded with complaints about the way things are, but there is almost no discussion of specific things people can do to take action.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

54. Can we all agree the present people

in government are captive to special interests? I believe they are. The average person has no representation, despite the rhetoric that flows daily in our society.
We have no voice,no say, no influence, no nothing................
It will take a 3rd party and they current two work hard to prevent that from happening and then you need enough 3rd party people to carry the vote.
Otherwise we are just cannon fodder consumers that get given jsut enough to not storm the castle gate. :shrug:

[Hekate]

55. KnR, Mr Scorpio.

:hi:

Hekate

[Number23]

57. Can't rec but I'll kick. Thanks for the reasoned, reasonable OP. Too many DUers

have taken to posting the stupidest, most inane OPs full of Obama-bashing bullshit because they know these will get a quick and cheap 125 recs here in Gen Discussion. (If you're posting an anti-Obama OP in GD that doesn't get AT LEAST that many, try again.)

Your call for intelligence, patience and action was great. Thanks for posting.