When was it clear to you that Obama and the Dems were going to screw this up?

[Fading Captain]

For me, I never had much faith in the President. I preferred Edwards' "Nice them to death," over Obama's made-for-daytime-TV vibe.

It should have been clear from the start, when he refused to commit to Single Payer.

I knew he wasn't aiming for the right target. But at a certain point I realized he might not even be savvy enough to win a small victory. And I'd have to say it was right here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6130461
(apologies not necessary by those who accused me of trolling)

When, during a press conference at which he was trying to rally the party around health reform, he stepped on the issue with the "racist" cop and professor, I knew this guy didn't have the political smarts and discipline to lead this country through a tough debate.

[upi402]

1. During the nomination process n/t

[Individualist]

110. +1

[rockymountaindem]

2. I'd say within the last 72 hours

Right when they said the Medicare buy-in, which was the last in a long line of progressively worse ideas which I might have called "good", was dead. And nobody seemed that upset about it. Up until then I thought we could get out of this with something that at least would set us on track to have possible improvement in the future. Now I think they're just going to make a bad situation worse.

[Fading Captain]

3. They've done a good job moving the goalposts

Every time you turn around, expectations are lower.
It's sickening.

[Goldstein1984]

21. What makes it especially sad is that 8 years of Bush/Cheney

made it so easy, and he's still blowing it.

The Republicans are wiping up the field with the WH and Congress.

They've been on the run since the start.

[WeDidIt]

90. Yup, me too.

I was cheerleading all the way up to the Faustian deal with Lieberman.

[timeforpeace]

115. Caving to Lieberman, resulting in nothing being left but a mandate.

[JVS]

4. When they watered down the public option and kept negotiating.

I figured that they'd want to sign something in order to call it a win, but the process of weakening and weakening without getting a bill showed me that the ongoing effort was doomed to either lead to no bill or a horrible bill.

[flvegan]

5. When Kucinich had to back out. n/t

On edit: of the presidential race. Lest the haters here have their way with the response.

[winyanstaz]

16. I noticed Obama was picked for us around that time too...

but I still voted for him and I still tried to be in his corner.
It just kept getting worse though.
I would still be in his corner though if he did some kind of major turn-around that actually was for the taxpayers and not the big guys and helped us create jobs. There will be NO recovery without jobs.
Obama..if you read this...NOW is the time to make that chess move!

[Goldstein1984]

23. He can still get a lot of people back if

he gets back on track.

[winyanstaz]

26. I sure hope he does..we need health care NOW...not next year.

[Goldstein1984]

33. It doesn't kick in until 2014 anyway, so we can start

again next year and still keep the same implementation date.

[tonysam]

81. I love this post,because I am glad somebody else saw that, too.

The media, not just the Democratic bigwigs, picked Obama from the get-go. I, too, voted for him--the alternative was too awful to contemplate--but I never had a good feeling about any of this.

Obama needs to get on the stick with a real jobs program--this is where he has badly screwed up, for he never should have pushed HCR in his first year in office.

It is the economy stupid, and it always was.

[winyanstaz]

91. Yes..first I noticed they were putting the ones they liked the best

close together in the middle of the stage and the others that they didn't want us to have ..they placed far outside and slightly away from the middle group. A direct subliminal message there that the ones on the outside were "outsiders" and the "popular" ones were in the middle.
Then I couldn't help but notice how many many more questions and answers the middle were given and how much more time as well. The camera was always on them and only panned the others if they were NOT smiling at the moment.
As an artist I also noticed the lighting. The ones in the middle were a more rosy tint and the ones outside were less lite and in more grey tones.
People need to be aware of that sort of staging as it is done to us all the time.
*edited to check for speeling :P

[Jamastiene]

39. Exactly n/t

[niceypoo]

6. When they first announced it

The Democrats have been timid and submissive to the GOP for a decade. I would have been shocked if they had even tried to succeed, which they didnt.

[Egnever]

7. lol you knew obama didnt have the smarts but thought edwards did!

Thats fuckin rich!

[Fading Captain]

10. Yep. I was way wrong about Edwards. But I liked his message

Obama doesn't stand for anything.

[tonysam]

123. Edwards had the right message

It was always about the message, not the person, but some people still can't figure that out.

[EFerrari]

8. That "cop" was a racist prick. He lied on his police report

introducing race to the witness's description and his nick in the community really is Jim Crow.

[Fading Captain]

13. Maybe. But Obama showed terrible judgment.

I was slackjawed when he stepped on that landmine.
I couldn't believe he gave the media exactly what it wanted.

[Raineyb]

46. Right because it's so much better for yet another racist cop to make a

false arrest and just get away with it.

There is plenty to point out about what's gone wrong but the aftermath of the arrest of Prof. Gates is not one of them.

[EFerrari]

108. I try to be a little careful in asserting facts. That cop did lie

in his report and his nickname is Jim Crow in the community.

I don't know what you mean about Obama stepping on a landmine. My hope would be that any president would come out against racism no matter who he is.

[Goldstein1984]

27. Obama was right, but

I cringed when I heard the words come out of his mouth.

[kirby]

9. When Howard Dean was not brought into the admin n/t

[bamacrat]

11. When they started with a compromise.

In bargaining you dont start off with the least you would want. Had we went full steam with single payer, the public option would look good to many conservadems and pukes alike. Instead we started off weak and they smelled blood.

[Fearless]

12. When it didn't pass by August.

[tekisui]

109. Same here.

I lost hope when they couldn't do it. It should have been a slam-dunk. Health care expansion during a time when people were losing their jobs? It could have been a cake walk, but they fucked it up. They really disappointed me, the whole gang, and haven't impressed me since.

[ThePhilosopher04]

14. When they didn't fight for single-payer right out of the chute...

I knew this was in trouble...good negotiators never start in the middle.

[Overseas]

74. That did it for me too. Because if there were ever a moral imperative

to go ahead and say We're opening up Medicare to All who want it as the public option, it was after we had been forced to bail out Big Finance while thousands of Americans were being evicted from their homes every day. People's fabulous private sector savings through 401ks had fallen. Surely our Democrats would save them from medical bankruptcy on top of all that. By the quickest possible means-- opening up Medicare.

Democrats could have banded together at that point and said-- Beat this! The private sector, as always, is welcome to compete. Low overhead and high patient satisfaction-- those are the qualities Medicare has that we Democrats want for everyone.

Furthermore, Medicare is a mixture of public and private elements. Medical services are privately delivered, between you and your doctors, payments are publicly administered, accountable to all.

If you want to know about how it works, ask your elders. Ask the Canadians who have had it for decades now. Look at their low overhead.

When single payer advocates weren't even invited to the debate table, that was my first depressing clue that we didn't have a practical moderate in the White House. Medicare was the most practical long term solution.

We already had triggers blown off their hinges. The private sector had over ten years since last defeating national health insurance to show us how they could do better. Instead, their profits soared while they figured out how to drop more people and keep jacking up their premiums.

[Donnachaidh]

15. when the news hit of the private meeting with Big Pharma

Captain Transparency meeting with them behind closed doors was the alarm that should have woken everyone up....

[Goldstein1984]

29. That was probably a turning point for a lot of people.

[peace frog]

49. It was for me

I knew then, we were screwed.

[Jim Sagle]

17. When he announced his Presidential campaign.

[Raine]

18. When they started claiming that a majority was not enough

to pass anything decent.

[democracy1st]

42. true

[NanceGreggs]

19. Never thought Obama & The Dems ...

... (a great group, BTW) were going to screw this up.

Did envision, however, that a certain faction would post "When was it clear to you ..." threads, suggesting that they had.

And that they'd gather the sheeple, ready to agree.

Nice try. No cigar - sheeple notwithstanding.

[JANdad]

54. For one who writes so well...

You seem to be blinded by your zeal for a President who from the start was in the pocket of big business. All one had to do was to look up his campaign donors...but then again when the Great Oprah tells you who to vote for...oh thats right, your not a sheeple...

[NanceGreggs]

89. Oh, that's right ...

If one supports the president, they are "blinded by zeal". Couldn't be any other reason - like, for example, thinking he's doing a good job.

Never even seen an Oprah show - not a fan.

As for Obama getting corporate donations - wow! He must be the only presidential candidate in history to have done so ... except for all the others, that is.

[Fading Captain]

101. Your post is pathetic

All you can do is try to smear people as being trolls or whatever.

[NanceGreggs]

107. Didn't mention a word about trolls.

Funny that you would.

[JuniperLea]

113. Projection

Where did she say anything like that?

The pathetic is clearly on your post, not Nance's.

[kenny blankenship]

20. I tried to be good. Really. I had many misgivings but I tried to stick with it.

But when Max Baucus put the Finance Committee bill through wave after wave of poison injections, pretending that they were needed to get Republican votes any fool could see were never coming, AND WHEN in the face of that Barack Obama kept sending lobbyists to "see Max" as his negotiating agent and referred to Baucus as his friend, and continually insisted on bipartisanship where none can exist, I knew that Baucus WAS INDEED Obama's friend, as fucked up as that seems even now, and that Obama was interested in "Health Care Reform" mainly as a pay off to his insurance company donors. I knew that Health Care Reform was going to be a huge disaster. A screwjob for the ages. Even if one couldn't be 100% sure of the reasons WHY things were going so wrong, there couldn't be any doubt whether they were going wrong, and that bad would lead to worse.

Even at that point, though, when recognition of disaster sunk in, I didn't think it could get quite THIS BAD: I didn't think they could get away with taking out every last vestige of the public option, which was itself the ghost of Single Payer non-fake health care reform. They did that and they even subtracted Medicare expansion, the distant echo of the public option. I guess it had a light that wouldn't light on one side.


Fuck You, Cindy Lou - you weak fucking LOSER!

[opihimoimoi]

22. Baby steps in the 1st qtr...he is doing much better than them asshole republicans did...thats a fack

[upi402]

28. Yep, the drug crazed lunatics aren't driving the bus anymore

But if we can't do MUCH better than this, we are sunk.

[opihimoimoi]

83. Still....Obamas odds way better than the GOP Trouble making efforts.

[reggie the dog]

24. as soon as single payer national insurance was off the table

[WT Fuheck]

25. Announcing summers and geithner boded ill

for anything Obama would ever do.

[tan guera]

30. I knew it

from very early in his campaign.

[gimama]

36. & Gates..& McFrickinChristol :(

Hello! Welcome!

[WT Fuheck]

37. thanks!

[OnyxCollie]

31. When he voted for FISA.

[Maureen1322]

52. Me too.

[Goldstein1984]

32. I don't know when they lost the bill,

Although today seems rather decisive as far as the people are concerned. But they lost me when they didn't start with single payer. It seemed to me that public option was a compromise from the start. I could have accepted the public option, but healthcare reform without the price control a public plan would have created was never acceptable. Forcing people to buy insurance from and industry that parasitizes a nation while adding nothing of value to healthcare is immoral.

[laughingliberal]

34. Not sure I agree this was, necessarily, a failure. I think this was the bill he wanted all along

So, when did I know that he was giving the last pennies we were clinging to over to the insurance cartels? It has been one of those things you keep seeing but trying to believe it wasn't really happening for me. First suspicion? When he went AWOL during the debate in August while letting the teabaggers dominate the media. I just couldn't believe he could be that stupid. So, I figured that fit into a plan to let support for the public option get driven down and use that as his cover for not fighting for it.

[Sapphocrat]

35. 2007 n/t

[NMMNG]

116. +1

[1]

38. no.

[pa28]

40. I was just thinking about this today.

It was over the day Sibelius said the public option was not essential. I thought we'd just end up with a dead bill but now it looks like we have zombie health reform bill (AKA ZHCRB).

Kucinich had done the math correctly; we were just going to continue compromising the compromises until we had a corporate giveaway in the end.

[democracy1st]

41. when he brought in all the goldman sachs hacks

[BR_Parkway]

43. Rick Warren - Jan 20th - but hey, I was just whining about a pony

or something, no need to gloom everyone else's hope for change.

[Nay]

51. Yeah, that's when the warning flags went up for me, too --Rick Warren. I

said to myself, WTF???? And I got these foreboding feelings that we had just stepped off a cliff. Obama was going to be too nice to the very people who would want to see him dead, and they would run right over him in every way possible.

[QC]

104. You are not going to ruin this for the rest of us!

Remember that one?

[BR_Parkway]

114. Like a canary in a coal mine... I wonder if the cheerleaders had listened

back then instead of brushing us off, if they'd have organized better to put the pressure on to prevent the latest sell outs.

[QC]

118. I think that if people had kept their eyes open back then,

instead of getting all verklempt over the pretty speechsermons Obama was preaching, we might have nominated an actual Democrat.

[RedCloud]

120. Agreed. Bush never kissed a liberal's ass.

Or assigned a liberal to a major post.
Or stopped terrorists attacks on liberal New York.
Or helped liberal California out of its energy crisis.
Or helped liberal New Orleans when Katrina was barreling down.

[Hardrada]

44. His annointment of Rahm &%$!(&! Immanuel.

[Raineyb]

45. When they declared that single payer was off the table.

It was a bad move from a negotiating standpoint and everything I expected from then on has happened. You can't negotiate from a compromised position and expect anything decent. I have no idea why the party refuses to learn this.

[coyote]

47. I didn't even vote in the past election....

I knew he was a corporate whore 2 years ago. Just a friendlier kinder corporate whore than Bush. He has met all my expectations and then some.

He is part of the establishment and will do anything to keep the status quo (that is, keep TPTB in power)

There is no change. This has been just a kick in the nuts of the American people.

The only way I see things changing is through revolution.

There is a vacuum of representation on both the left and right...and I think the right person could capitalize on this. A Howard Dean or Wesley Clark might be able to pull it off. I would love to see Kucinich but my feeling he has been too marginalized.

Otherwise...I see things getting much worse before they get better. When the people when have nothing to lose, then you might seem some real demonstrations, but we are far off from that.

[BigBearJohn]

48. When he first supported Lieberman's senate campaign, then chose Emmanuel for his chief.

[W_HAMILTON]

50. When they kept talking about how they'd get this done by August...

...

[NJmaverick]

53. THis isn't constructive criticism it's just an explanation as to why you betrayed our President

[JANdad]

58. Who betrayed who?

Answer that with real honesty...

[NJmaverick]

60. I think the supporters who abandoned him over the first disagreement are the ones doing the real

betraying, not that echo chambers like this one doesn't convince people of the opposite.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Raineyb]

85. You would. As per usual your devotion to the PARTY over all else

manages to make itself really bloody obvious. You're really quite transparent.

[Stinky The Clown]

70. Do you *really* think that if people just never said anything critical everything would be okay?

Really?

Do you actually think that? Do you *actually* think that by not criticizing some event that ahs happened woudl not have and all would be peaches and cream ..... sunshine and light today?

What was the cause and effect?

You make lots of such exhortations to stop criticizing. Tell us how YOU think that will help anything.





(Oother than your head hurting from the effect of cognitive dissonance.....)

[treestar]

80. Do you really think anything can get done with constant criticism

of every detail? Have you ever tried to negotiate anything with anybody, let alone with many different parties of varying degrees of power over something with many details? Walking away from the negotiation at the first sign of disagreement generally means no negotiation. That's the Bushco style in fact. You basically expect Obama to tell Lieberman and Nelson, etc. to go to hell if they don't agree on the entire package as Obama wants it.

I once dealt with a lawyer like that. She wanted her way and if we didn't agree, she accused us of failure to negotiate. This reminds me of that.

[Stinky The Clown]

88. Okay .... point by point ...... let's get down in the weeds here .......

You: "Do you really think anything can get done with constant criticism of every detail?"

Me: Yeah, I do. Every president gets criticized. Hell, every store clerk gets criticized. You quit or you do it. The store clerk, I can accept any decision s/he makes to allow getting past the criticism, even if that means quitting. But POTUS? I have a higher standard. Presidents got egged, booed, demagogued, editorially attacked, spoken ill of on teevee, etc. They get their jobs done. The shit comes with the territory.

Further, if we don't either criticize or cheer, how will the POTUS know what we want? He may choose to ignore us, but it won't be ignoring born of ignorance, now will it? I betcha Johnson, Nixon, and Bush knew damned a-well we didn't like their wars. I bet Obama knows we don't like his Afghan hard-on. I bet he knows, too, that we want **real** health care reform ..... and he knows that a goodly number of want even more - single payer. His ignoring us isn't ignorant. It is willful. He knows. Cuz we all told him. And we're telling him now.





You: "Have you ever tried to negotiate anything with anybody, let alone with many different parties of varying degrees of power over something with many details?"

Me: Yes. And frequently. And often with people who speak different tongues. All at once. Multiple translators. Multiple agendas. Lots of arcane details. You keep your eye on the ball. It can be done. Buying .... I dunno .... a baseball card from a collector might be easier, but it can be done.






You: "Walking away from the negotiation at the first sign of disagreement generally means no negotiation."

Me: At the "first sign of disagreement? Yeah, you're right. Walking away later might actually be a good tactic. It depends on circumstances and what it is (and where) that is being negotiated.






You: "That's the Bushco style in fact. You basically expect Obama to tell Lieberman and Nelson, etc. to go to hell if they don't agree on the entire package as Obama wants it."

Me: Actually, that's a red herring. What I **EXPECTED** Obama to do (back when he was still a candidate) was to LEAD on his issues. Had he actually led boldly, we have no idea where we might be. If he overpowered the teabaggers and got public sentiment on his side (as he managed to do quite handily as he was seeking the office, I might add), it is very possible (likely?) that one or two more could have been swayed by their constituents' sentiment and public pressure from the people back home. But we shall never know because Obama has no propensity for bold leadership on this issue.




You: "I once dealt with a lawyer like that. She wanted her way and if we didn't agree, she accused us of failure to negotiate. This reminds me of that."

Me: Uh .... that's called negotiating. You use whatever means available to do what you get paid to do. She was being paid to win. Not play nice with you. Her only obligation (apart from the fundamental obligation to her client) was to play legally with you. I bet you and she never went to dinner together .... or sent Christmas cards. She wasn't there to be your friend or even to be polite. She was there to win. If she were my lawyer and I were paying her to negotiate something with you, I'd be displeased if she didn't scare you so much, or piss you off, if that were your weakness, that you bit your own finger off and swallowed it. Or whatever else it takes, legally, to *win*.







That was fun. let's do that again.

[lonestarnot]

55. When he started from a compromised position after making a deal with pharma.

[AzDar]

56. When Rahm Emmanuel 's name was mentioned...

:puke:

[sendero]

57. I gave up hope...

.. about 6 weeks ago. The patterns are very clear. Set an expectation, then lower it. Rinse and repeat.

I sincerely hope this bill dies. Let the insurance companies have their way a few more years and there will be no choice but to institute real reforms.

[Tailormyst]

59. When they took single payer off the table so soon.

I knew right then it was fucked.

[Bluenorthwest]

61. McClurkin.

Because he could not see what was true in that fiasco.

[QC]

62. When he put Rahm Emmanuel in charge of his administration. n/t

[whistler162]

63. 2525

GEEEZZZ!!!!


PANIC PANIC PANCIC!!!!!!

[Fumesucker]

64. You are assuming that they aren't getting exactly what they want..

I think that's a questionable assumption.

[Le Taz Hot]

65. The second I heard President Change's pick for COS.

[timtom]

66. In 2004, at John Kerry's acceptance of the nomination spectacular.

I thought, "Uh. Oh. They've just trotted out their new pony (Barack Obama). Of all the Democrats to be a keynote speaker, why him? And, who the hell is he, anyway?"

The next big clue was the appointment of Rahm Emmanuel as Chief of Staff.

Game over.

[RainDog]

68. if by "this" you mean their time in power... at the inauguration

with the Saddleback asshole there to represent hatred for my gay brothers and sisters.

or maybe it was the appointment of Summer and Geithner rather than Steiglitz and Krugman.

or maybe it was when the public option was immediately taken off the table.

or maybe it was when FISA continued.

in any case, the rhetoric has been beautiful but the actions have been disgusting.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

69. When he acted like he never had a healthcare plan he campaigned and won with.

I seriously mean that and I could go back and find post after post where I asked why he was doing this. Kicking off from the 50 yardline when he could have started at the 70.

When the House Party Meet-ups started I knew we were in real trouble. The materials provided were simply assinine and were just encouraging people to share their personal stories about why health reform was needed without offering ANY plan except for 4 Bromides about how healthcare needed to be affordable, accessible, etc. WE KNEW THAT! They were wasting everyone's time! They could have used those house parties again around the time the Tea Baggers emerged, but they had already blown that effort and goodwill on something that had zip overall effect. Honestly, I really knew it was all over then.

Then he still backed off from any leadership (in the open anyway) except for the ceremonial while letting all those committees come up with their own stuff from scratch. The we had the White House meetings they had to be sued by Crew to reveal. Then we had the secret Pharma deals. Then we had using Baucus and the Finance Committee as his funnel.

This was all reported and documented and commented on by the people following things closely - like me. I was always and routinely castigated as a Debbie Downer. I can truthfully say that almost every single thing I posted about and warned against has come to pass - and I am no genius. The White House is filled with incredible hubris and contempt for the people who put Obama in office. They have acted the entire way through like we are total morons with no power of recall.

[Odin2005]

71. The last couple days.

[deutsey]

72. During the primaries when I heard about the Wall Street and militarist types

that were on his team.

[Blue_Tires]

73. several bad moves along the way, IMO -- in somewhat chronological order:

1. Rahm Emmanuel as COS -- As a far leftist I had misgivings about that from the start...

2. Giving Pharm and Insurance corps the earliest and most prominent place at the behind-closed-doors negotiating table

3. Falsely thinking from the start that you could TOTALLY reform a evil, greedy, inefficient, profits-at-all-costs healthcare paradigm while keeping those same evil corporations as part of the new plan

4. Foolishly thinking that the bill needed bipartisan support and be all things to all congressmen to pass, along with that bullshit arbitrary "60 votes needed to pass"

5. Grossly underestimating how obstructionist and how outrageous a talking point congresscritters will spew when there is enough lobbyist $$$$ backing them up

6. Negotiating away single-payer from the start to appease the very assclowns who would vote against it anyway

7. Negotiating away the pro-choice language to appease the very assclowns who would vote against it anyway

8. Negotiating away any semblance of a public option to appease the very assclowns who would vote against it anyway

9. After their very public crybaby tantrums, bending over backward to kiss the asses of the blue dogs, the born-again deficit hawks, Snowe and Lieberman -- and after all the time, money, energy, dealing and political capital spent trying to win them over, how many of them are on our side this morning??

10. Finally, increasing belief in the meme that ANY bill is more than good enough as long as it does a little something; just get it passed



Where I myself got it wrong:

1. Believing enough rational-thinking Americans would be smart enough to compare their own healthcare costs to the Canadian system (or if they MUST hate all things "Big Gummitt", the just-as-effective Swiss system) and say "We should have that here!"

2. Believing (more accurately deluding myself) that country club of a few hundred select multi-millionaires, many of whom were born into, married into, or swindled their way into wealth, would know how critical a public option was for those of us who don't and won't ever have the yacht, the garage full of Porsches and the vacation home in Monaco...


As an aside, I would NOT want to be an HR director or an immigration bureaucrat up in Canada in the coming months...

[rudy23]

75. When Rahm was hired and Dean was snubbed. nt

[xiamiam]

76. when he did nothing to pass the bankruptcy bill which would have helped millions

and at least stem the tide of foreclosures..which, by the way, has yet to be done and has yet to see the bottom..in so doing, he also, threw his long time mentor, durbin, under the bus as well..i thought at the time..uh oh..and have been watching carefully..nothing since then has been done to help us..his behavior on HRC was basically the same as the bankruptcy bill...talk a lot..do nothing..forget main street..

[Javaman]

77. It was the little big things...

not closing gitmo. I won't believe it till I see it.

not rolling back the tax cuts for the rich.

surging in afghanistan and not bringing the troops home.

keeping wire tapping and other issues with the patriot act.

Yes, they are big issues but they have been pushed to the back of the room while the health care monster has sucked up all the air.

There are others, but that's just the few off the top of my head.

[tonysam]

78. Before Obama was the nominee, unfortunately.

The signs were all there Democrats were going to screw up a golden opportunity.

[JCMach1]

79. When Obama let Lieberman keep his Chairmanship

[Carolina]

82. last summer, especially August!

[bighart]

84. The moment they opend their mouths.

I have become so jaded over the last 20 years or so. Campaigns have become about talking points, sound bites and personality/charisma. There is NO leadership in Washington, none. All they care about is reelection and to accomplish that all they have to do is support some cotton candy feel good legislation that does nothing to help the masses but looks good and smells nice.
A big part of the problem in my eyes is uninformed voters and apathy on the part of those that do stay informed. It is so easy to get discouraged and think why bother when it does not seem to matter which party is in control as there are really no appreciable policy differences between them anymore. It truly is SAME SHIT DIFFERENT DAY AND DIFFERENT PEOPLE FEEDING IT TO US.

[Tom Rinaldo]

86. Back before I posted this:

I knew the Public Option was in trouble when Democrats downplayed Medicare
Posted by Tom Rinaldo in General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009)
Sun Sep 13th 2009, 01:08 PM

"Instead of going on the offense and boasting about the relative high level of user satisfaction with AND cost efficiencies of Medicare compared to private health insurance plans, Democrats went out of their way to prove how little the Public Option has in common with a popular Medicare program. Democrats are simply afraid to defend a positive role for Government in a mixed economy, which is what the U.S. economy is and has been for generations. Except for a small progressive minority, elected national Democrats are submissive in the face of Republican claims that the free market is by far the best answer to virtually any human need. Anti-government rhetoric has been Republican bread and butter ever since Ronald Reagan ran for President, and Democrats by and large refuse to head on refute it...."

It went on from there but that was my clearest signal of a trainwreck approaching.

[salguine]

87. When Obama started assembling his cabinet and staff.

[Greyhound]

92. I estimated it in May/June 2008, I knew it on November 6th.

That was the day he appointed Rahm as CoS.

[StatGirl]

93. When the leadership refused to impeach Bush, and supported Lieberman over Lamont (NT)

[tranche]

94. He's a Democrat. Of course they were going to fail.

[FLAprogressive]

95. when single payer became off the table

[Burma Jones]

96. When he won

You think any candidate is going to win without enriching the rich?

[David Zephyr]

97. No. I trusted Obama. I don't anymore.

After the Canadian med maneuver, I can no longer trust him. That's sad, but true. He lied.

[taught_me_patience]

98. When he hired Geitner

It was obvious he cared for big banks more than ordinary people.

[TiberiusGracchus]

99. When he kept Gates, Bernanke and replaced Paulson with his protege (along with Summers)

I was sorta expecting that Obama would fill his cabinet with old Clinton hands but I was shocked that he kept so many Bushies.

In fact, he put Republicans in key state and defense posts (secretary of the army etc) and he even put a Republican as our ambassador to CHINA.

By the time Obama had thrown Van Jones and Yosi under the bus it was all just confirmation of my worst fears. I had known we'd been conned months before then.

[undergroundpanther]

100. I didn't want to vote for obama

Because I saw his corporate leanings,early on and I had my suspicions and I didn't say much when he was elected because people were in some form of "honeymoon phase"but when he put DNC Hillary in his cabinet,I knew he was just mouthing progressive ideas to look good.


Truth is I wanted Kucinich to have been president. Kucinich has the guts to stand against corporate power,he also was against the war,against the patriot act,pro gay marriage, pro union,he was a TRUE progressive. I would have voted for Dennis gladly because of who he is,I voted for Obama because I wanted Bush OUT.I am tired of holding my nose and voting for what I do not want, to get rid of something worse. You know a lesser evil is still evil.

[Scarsdale Vibe]

102. When Reid caved to liberal pressure and included a public option.

[WI_DEM]

103. When I read this thread.

[mitchtv]

105. Rev Warren at the inauguration

I knew then it was a mistake

[natrat]

106. early on when it was clear how sleezy emanuel is and the bush holdovers left in place

[slackmaster]

111. For me it was about 1964

:shrug:

[fascisthunter]

112. When he gave a clean pass to Telecom Companies

then I realized he working for the wrong people in this country.

And then not going after Bush and gang.

[depakid]

117. When he asserted that "health insurers were not bad people."

It was CLEAR as a whistle at that point that the administration didn't know how to harness the anger, resentment- and well earned outrage that's required to make major policy changes in America.

Chalk one up to naivety.

[Toasterlad]

119. I Always Knew That He Was a Corporate Homophobe.

That is, I never expected him to do anything for the gays, and I expected him to work hard ensuring that Wall Street was happy. But I'll admit that his blatant and deliberate fucking up of the health care mess took even me by surprise. I honestly didn't think he was that low.

[Paladin]

121. The Seemingly Endless KowTowing To Republicans.

As if kissing their asses would somehow bring them to our side. Criminal-level naivete, as far as I'm concerned.....

[tonysam]

124. His admiration for Ronald Reagan should have been a warning sign

But there were many, many more if people paid any attention.

Unfortunately, the facts about Obama were buried under mountains of media hype about his "rock star" status and "historic" candidacy.

[donheld]

122. When Rahm was made chief of staff I started to question

[earth mom]

125. I find it amazing that it took getting screwed over on Health Care to wake people the hell up.

Jeez, you think people would have got a clue when Obama picked Rahm, Geithner and Summers.

Or when Obama gave the Banksters trillions of dollars that the banksters didn't loan out but instead used to gamble with on Wall Street while giving themselves ginormous bonuses-all at taxpayer expense and sacrifice.

Or when Obama ampted up his wars and then gave a fucking bullshit speech saying in essence that War is Peace.

I've known Obama was full of it ever since he first hit the radar screen in '04, but knew it for sure during the primaries.

The above is just part of a very long list.

Actions speak louder than words, ya'll.