Would the Senate bill be worthwhile if the mandate was also stripped out?

[stevietheman]

OK, so we lost the public option. But would the hacked up Senate bill still be worthwhile in many ways if the mandate to purchase private insurance was also stripped out?

I'm curious to see where people stand on this.

[TwilightGardener]

1. Here's what I suggest: No mandate, but STRONGLY ENCOURAGE and assist

in the purchase of insurance, with the subsidies, tax breaks, discounts on premiums, whatever it takes. Make the sign-ups and paperwork easy, make it a public campaign. Most people WANT insurance, it really is necessary for one's security, health, and to keep costs down for everybody (so that we're not paying for ER visits and critical care in hospitals when neglected health problems turn into health disasters).

[pnwmom]

6. Why would logical people want major insurance if they knew that they could sign up

for it as soon they knew they were facing high medical bills -- and then could drop it again until the next time they had a health care crisis?

[TwilightGardener]

9. Make enrollment periods--and make them wait for coverage after they enroll.

And make the enrollment period similar to a lease or a contract that can only be broken by penalty.

[yourout]

17. Great idea.

[TwilightGardener]

19. Thanks--it wasn't mine, I stole it from another DUer (can't remember who).

[treestar]

20. They there would be all kinds of outrage over the fact they couldn't

get treatment for the period and during a period while they were sick. That's why the mandate isn't so horrible as all make it out to be. It's to make people participate but most people will want to. They want to be covered. So the mandate isn't that big a deal, most people want what is being mandated, that's the whole idea. It's the types of people who want to not pay until they need it - the types who defraud any program, who have to be mandated.

[TwilightGardener]

21. I'm not actually opposed to mandates, I can see the necessity of them.

I'm just trying to think of ways to make the bill more palatable, and less risky cost-wise (since there's no longer a PO, people can't take their ball and go elsewhere when the private companies raise rates or copays or cut coverage).

[MercutioATC]

2. "Worthwhile"? No.

Stripping the mandate as it currently reads would remove one flawed element from a fundamentally flawed bill.

[stevietheman]

4. It wouldn't be flawed IMHO, It would just be incomplete.

There are a lot of reforms in the bill, isn't there? Why can't we move forward with them?

[MercutioATC]

10. Oh, there's definitely some good stuff in the bill.

The problem is that it's hopelessly intertwined with a lot of bad stuff.

Removing one bad element won't make this a worthwhile bill.

[TwilightGardener]

11. Well, if the bill amounted to this: Insurance co's have to take everybody, can't

drop coverage on anybody, and here's some help to pay for it--you don't think that would be a good bill, right there? I do.

[MercutioATC]

13. Yeah, that's called FEHBP for all.

(probably with a Medicare component for those up to about 300% of the federal poverty limit)

Imperfect, but easily done and very workable. All of the components already exist, they just need to be expanded.

[TwilightGardener]

15. I wish they could just pare down the bill to this, then, and maybe set sights

a little lower for now. It would still be a big improvement, even though not really universal in that some people won't participate or will have trouble paying for the policy.

[MercutioATC]

16. I'm not an "Obama hater" or a diehard champion of the perfect. This is just a shit bill.

Especially when there are better, simpler ways to attack the problem that could be implemented faster.

[pnwmom]

3. If the mandate were stripped out, then the preexisting conditions provisions and

the no-drop provisions would have to be stripped out, too -- because the pro-votes on one were conditional on the other.

Besides that, it's economically unworkable. Without a mandate, and with no preexisting condition hurdle, it wouldn't make economic sense for people to buy insurance until they were facing costly care -- and no one could afford the rates if all the people on insurance were facing high bills.

[stevietheman]

7. But I have to buy insurance from a criminal private insurer, I'd rather go to jail. n/t

n/t

[yourout]

8. This is were the Dems really screwed up...they should have said drop the preexisting condition....

or lose your Anti-trust exemption.

The mandate should have been tied to a strong public option.

[JVS]

5. I think it should just be scrapped. Leaving the bill without the mandate kind of leaves...

the public open to the risk that a pro-corporate administration could slip a mandate in in the future.

[ieoeja]

12. Yes. There are still some good things in it.

But it goes from a major healthcare bill, to a minor piece of legislation.

Of course, I am still waiting to see what the final bill looks like. Mandates, for example, are not in the House bill. So it could easily not survive conference.

[shadowknows69]

14. The mandate is unacceptable, but this is still a steaming pile with or without it.

And why would we expect their side to compromise anyway. We've clearly shown them they don't have to.

[Unvanguard]

18. Probably, but it would be a worse bill than with the mandate.

It depends on how severe the adverse selection effect is, but with a combination of discrimination bans and no mandate, the distribution of health care costs would fall unfairly highly on those of high risk, and the number of low-risk uninsured would probably rise (with the associated problems if, say, they get seriously injured somehow).

[Tippy]

22. Mandate has to go......We will really be screwed if it is kept in....

[Nikki Stone1]

23. The mandate IS the bill. Get that through your heads. It's the "80% we all agree on."

Without the mandate, there's no point. The insurance industry reforms are weak, at best. They can't touch the mandates or they have no bill. That's why the bill has to have a public option or it needs to be scrapped.

[Laelth]

24. +1 n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[stevietheman]

25. Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I have decided to completely oppose the Senate bill. n/t

n/t