Former DNC chair Don Fowler: Dean's words are "childish". Says "left" in league with Lieberman

[madfloridian]

He actually compares the left to Lieberman.

Way to go, Don. You and the other party leaders and talking heads are just really making all of us feel so damn good...

Those of us in moderate circumstances who gave so much of our time and effort AND our money..to Obama. We just kept giving like we did for Dean in 2003...and we were so proud when Obama won. We felt a part of things.

Now you think you can look down your noses at us? At Dean?

You think?

Howard Dean Call To Kill Health Bill Is 'Childish': Ex-DNC Head Fowler

Former Democratic National Committee chairman Don Fowler has never been one to mince words. And the South Carolina professor and businessman more than lived up to his reputation today when NPR asked for his take on calls by some from the party's left wing - and from fellow former DNC chairman Howard Dean - to kill the health care bill still being debated in the Senate.

"It's childish - and I'm as liberal as anybody," said Fowler, who has been following the intra-party imbroglio from Minnesota, where he's scheduled to have knee replacement surgery Friday at Rochester's Mayo Clinic.

But he's not done yet.

Much of the political left's ire has been focused on Connecticut independent Sen. Joe Lieberman, a former Democrat who threatened to filibuster the bill if it contained either of those provisions.

Fowler shares their distaste for Lieberman but says that he believes they are now in league with him.

"I don't mean to pour gasoline on the fire, but I think it's immature," Fowler says of the left's saber rattling. "It's like doing a favor for your enemy, and it makes no sense to me."

That being said, Fowler sees the intra-party bickering as a "temporary irritant" that won't derail President Obama's current initiative.

You just did pour gasoline. I am no "temporary irritant". I expect more from my party than what they are doing right now.

The party leaders just keep on with the insults instead of realizing that some of the very serious voters and activists are getting really angry.

[SIMPLYB1980]

1. He's right.

[madfloridian]

3. Then the party doesn't need irritants, does it?

[SIMPLYB1980]

7. LOL! Irritate all you want.

I'm enjoying it. :popcorn: Or is it not O.K. for me to agree with a former DNC leader?

[madfloridian]

10. Hey, our credit cards look wonderful now.

We are in the habit of not donating because the corporations provide. :evilgrin:

Jump for joy.

[SIMPLYB1980]

13. Bitterly still clinging I see.

:evilgrin:

[Skittles]

16. ignore these fucktards, mf

they know shit

[madfloridian]

21. It's a good thing really. Their arrogance is helping me think straighter.

It's all good.

I see the utter disdain in which the party holds us, the peons.

[Skittles]

24. it's getting worse

now we're "ranting", "preening", "teaming up with teabaggers" "still pissed about the primaries" - all because we want less war and REAL healthcare reform - WTF - we are in bizarro world

[madfloridian]

28. I am for women's rights, unions, public education..

the right not to have religion in our government. That is not too demanding.

There's a not a single person left in our group that worked locally for Obama who is going to be boots on the ground in 2010.

I find that sad.

[waiting for hope]

54. Those four things you just listed

used to be the backbone of the Democratic Party .. not anymore, and for those of us who still consider themselves to be Democrats, it's a bitter pill to swallow. I don't know what direction this is all headed toward, but I do know one thing, my beliefs are becoming vastly different than the party's...and my beliefs haven't changed.

K&R for the OP, btw. :yourock:

[madfloridian]

55. Not anymore.

.

[Divine Discontent]

74. rights for ALL people, and the right to not be oppressed by them for speaking your mind

obviously, this Fowler guy doesn't have a leg to stand on here because I don't see him actively fighting for HCR like Dean has, when the dr could have just ignored everything & went into some lobbyist role for a medical firm. But, unlike Fowler, Dr Dean is a man of pure principle - rights for all - and the corporations do not control our rights. At least that's the way it should be!


So, I agree with you MF, and funnily enough - and sorry to him, but there's VERY few people I know who support the pres for reelection anymore - he's gotta straighten up or he'll be shipped out and we'll either get a 3rd party surprise (much like Obama was a surprise, if you looked at 3 years ago no one woulda thunk he'd beat HRC or JE even if they thought he was awesome as my friend did in '04), or Mittens will become president...

So Obama better get with it - because to millions of liberals he's become not so likable. Also, the same way many of us see him as supporting big business, the 3 Repubs I would call my friends, out of the dozens of people I know well, consider him in the pocket of wall st & the banks! whoops! He's got an awful large amount of people seeing him as a servant of the wealthy - that's not good for the Democrats and they should be on him to shape up!

[AndrewP]

38. It's bizzaro world, isn't it?

[Jim Sagle]

34. As five buck an hour DLC hogwash dispensers, they're typing that arrogance from a script.

[Zodiak]

39. It is a sight to behold, is it not?

They really only see us as useful fools when we are on their side, temporary irritants when we dare to not be.

I'm sure they'll be completely deaf to why the party got the middle finger in 2010, too. Hell, if the liberals come back, they'll just get blamed again.

This dysfunctional family is kaput....over. No more abuse...no more taking us for granted...no more anything until they EARN our votes. Calling us "immature" does not engender good will.

Keep it up, Democrats, because this strategy is also monumentally stupid, like every other strategy you had for 30 fucking years!

[madfloridian]

42. Yes, they see us as "useful fools."

[roguevalley]

58. you can agree. it doesn't make you right. just sayin.

and fuck this guy. (the former chairman)

[PassingFair]

67. He's just pissed because little "Donnie" got passed over for Dean.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrBus8ORR78


Here's your FOWLer for you.

[tomm2thumbs]

49. irritants is how you make a pearl

lest we forget

[Gman]

64. You betcha he's right

makes the left useful idiots. They're making Lieberman's job easier.

[BlueIdaho]

2. Boy oh boy the DLC is calling in all its markers on this one...

[madfloridian]

4. Yes, indeedy.

[Mojambo]

8. Of course they are. Health insurance companies will be bankrolling them for decades

with all the profits they'll be soaking up.

[NJmaverick]

5. Got to admire the man's courage to speak the truth and faith the wrath of the angry legions

[madfloridian]

11. The "angry legions"? Another snide term. You guys are good.

You really are.

[mitchum]

17. You flatter them; they are not good, just relentless and corrupt

[still_one]

25. Admire the man for truth? What a crock. This is what the Senate version gives us

1. No Single Payer

2. No public option

3. No expanded Medicare coverage

4. No drug re-importation

5. No cost controls

6. No renegotiation of drug prices

7. Capped annual coverage for care

8. Individual mandated coverage

9. Anti-trust exemption for insurance companies

10. A tax on middle class insurance plans

11. Taxes that start up in January, but benefits that don’t start until 2014

[midnight]

57. This is why Howard Dean's responsible criticism of this insurance give away is needed.

[donco6]

30. Angry legions is simply another name for The People.

And he should be scared of us.

[roguevalley]

59. he's speaking. its an assumption to say truth.

[PassingFair]

68. He's not afraid of "angry legions"....

The sniggering old fool has GAWD on his side. Calls it "our side", but NO THANKS.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrBus8ORR78

[Larkspur]

6. I'm no irritant either. I'm secretary of my town's DTC

It was the White House that was "childish" by calling Dean "irrelevant" and "irrational".

[BlueIdaho]

9. You are watching a White House that is in complet disarray

They have completely lost control of the message and they know this junk bill is about to blow up in their face.

[roguevalley]

60. I just wrote a six page lette to the white house. I told them that when

this shit stain is enacted and people are crushed and die and get left behind and become more impoverished, it will be BLAMED ON HIM! IT is just AWESOME how they don't get it. This will be Obama's swirling shit storm. they don't get it.

[Name removed]

Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[walldude]

12. LMAO Dean has them shitting in their pants.. they are going out of their

way to discredit him using the old GOP talking points/smear/personal attack playbook. How anyone can't see this is beyond me.

[KakistocracyHater]

62. it really pulls that curtain back, revealing what only some of us had suspected

tragically accurately. I know Dean is one of the good guys for now, by the way they're treating him but also by what he is espousing. Hope that he doesn't 'turn' like too many of them.

[tularetom]

14. He should get a fucking brain replacementt while he's in there

Wonder how much he's paying for his first class medical attention at the Mayo Clinic.

Asshole.

[Are_grits_groceries]

15. Don Fowler and his wife Carol

have helped turn the Democratic Party in SC into a nonentity. They are interested in one thing, and that is holding on to their little base of power.

In 2008, they didn't even muster up a decent candidate to run against Lindsey Graham. I don't care if they couldn't have gotten the most well known person in the state to run or whatever. They could have backed an enthusiastic up and comer to give them some experience. Instead, we ended up with a Rethug turned Dem who was really a Ron Paulite.

There was a decent group here, but the Fowlers and their minions sat on their asses so much that there was no discernable, concerted effort to put up any fight.

[madfloridian]

29. That is the way it has been done for years.

I think they consider us threats instead of a part of the party.

And that is very strange. It is the same in our area. The candidates were all pre-picked, it's all decided without us.

[Carolina]

48. Hey grits!

:hi: You are so right. Plus, Don is irrelevant. At an SC Democratic Party function years ago when Clinton was still in the White House, several of us mentioned the need to counter the rightwing media machine... He laughed at us.

Fuck Fowler.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

18. Good. Running out these stooges to attack the left shows how worried they are.

They started a fire and are now trying to put it out with kerosene.

[madfloridian]

23. It's just like before Iraq when we were called names.

:shrug:

[laughingliberal]

19. Straight through an Orwellian Looking Glass! Disgustingly Bad Form nt

[gratuitous]

20. Yes, childish

Let's not let the hideously obscene be the enemy of the eminently achievable, shall we? Don't fight for what you know is right. Don't make waves. Don't rock the boat. Go along to get along. We'll work it all out in the months and years to come. Just like we did with "don't ask, don't tell" and the "side agreements" that were going to make NAFTA palatable. What's the matter with you libruls? After all, Fowler's "as liberal as anybody"! Just ask him.

[still_one]

22. I can hardly wait tell the DNC asks me for a donation /nt

[still_one]

26. Hey Don, "don't piss on my back and tell me its rain" /nt

[Laelth]

27. Hear, hear!

madfloridian wrote: "I am no 'temporary irritant'. I expect more from my party than what they are doing right now."

I suspect that statement summarized very nicely how many of us on the left are feeling right now.

Seconded.

:dem:

-Laelth

[David Zephyr]

31. Don Fowler is a corporate whore.

He was the worst chair of the party ever.

Dean did what Fowler never could do: win.

[RB TexLa]

32. Good description, I don't think any toddler can carry a tantrum as long as Dean can.

Someone really should have told him his 15 minutes are up.

[madfloridian]

33. I actually think the insults are very good right now.

Many like me are having serious concerns that our party finds us irrelevant.

We are thinking things out, and the last few days here are so helpful. I mean that sincerely.

The arrogance will backfire, but meanwhile enjoy your superiority to those of us who demand more from our party.

[Marr]

40. Oh, don't worry. They'll be right back to blaming you

for their losses next year.

[madfloridian]

44. For sure they will blame "the left" for everything.

But they don't need us now. The money will flow from the corporate world, and most will vote which is all they need.

I think it is good this is happening this way with Obama sending out Gibbs and Axelrod, and the WH friendly bloggers speaking out.

It's good to have it happen.

[Marr]

45. Yep. Puts all the cards on the table.

I can't tell whether they're playing the old DLC game from the 90's, or the right-wing game from the Bush Administration... but neither is going to fly with the left in 2010. It's almost as if they think they can pull the same shit with the left wing base that the Republicans do with their own base. The two groups are fundamentally different.

[madfloridian]

47. Times have seriously changed. .

What used to be okay is not going to fly anymore.

[Zomby Woof]

52. Dean was the best DNC chair of the past 20 or so years

I had my disagreements with him as a candidate, but thought he was much better-suited as chair of the DNC, and I was proven right.

Don't you have people not to drink with at a party?

[roguevalley]

61. Dean can talk as long as he damned wants.

[defendandprotect]

35. I'll stick with Dean, thanks ...

This is an attempted repeat of the "scream" --

and much of it comes from within the corporate-Democratic Party . . .

which is MOST of the party!!!

[Jakes Progress]

36. K&R This is an administration hell-bent

on serving only one term. Hope becomes footnote. Change comes with an asterisk.

I don't plan on leaving the party. I plan on kicking those corporate stooges out of MY party.

[Justitia]

37. Who???? Sorry, hadn't heard of this asshole 'til now, guess he's less than memorable.

Man, they are really scraping the bottom of the barrel now aren't they?

[Sebastian Doyle]

41. Don Fowler: Clinton blowing DLC tool

Seriously, he and Monica could compare notes.

[tnlefty]

43. I used to have some respect for Don Fowler.

I despise LIEber*(&^ and might add that perhaps if Mr. Fowler is in favor of this huge giveaway to the huge industry corps. that he in fact has much more in common with the (I-Aetna-Asshole-CT).

Mr. Fowler, could you merely consider helping to improve this bill for average Americans and stop with the insults? If not, then please embrace your corporate loving Lieber*&^% and others, just STFU with the insults.

[Blasphemer]

46. They certainly are working over time to quell dissent

I swear they put more effort into shutting down the people on the left who actually demand BETTER for the American people than they put into shutting down those on the right (both Democrats and Republicans) who wish to to continue to put the screws to the average American.

[tomm2thumbs]

50. lobbying pays off, don't it

screw the country, they want their piece of pie - and make it a big one

[and-justice-for-all]

51. Oh bullshit! Dean is right, so suck it! nt

[pundaint]

69. succinct accurate and seconded!

[apocalypsehow]

53. Not since the Second Defenstration of Prague has so much hot air been expended over so very little.

n/t.

[apimomfan2]

56. The mask comes off.

They're not even trying to hide it anymore. Who are these people? Legislation that could have been penned at the C Street Church. Weird!

[Raine]

63. Fowler is resorting to "childish" tactics

by insulting the activist's base ... way to go you shit for brains! :mad:

[madfloridian]

71. They are all insulting the activist base, including the WH

They are wrong to do that.

[Bluenorthwest]

65. Fowler is the one being childish. Howard Dean beat his son

Donnie to become Party Chair. Donnie was second place, and the Fowlers have trouble with that, clearly. Petty, Party crap. Don Sr was Chairman for just 2 years, and Chris Dodd was a kind of co chair during that time. Also during that time, we lost Congress to the GOP.

[Divine Discontent]

75. so this guy was in charge when we lost Congress & was around for 2 years? Well, his word matters!

Thanks for the info.

[Mari333]

66. their talking points handed to them will only incense the left even more

Fowler, kiss my ass you corporate tool.

[madfloridian]

70. Amen, and they should know that.

Fully agreed on that.

I want honest clear talk delivered openly.

[Kermitt Gribble]

72. Yeah, Don, we're just a 'temporary irritant'

on our govt's journey to boost the profits of the health insurers at our expense. Well, the corporate Dems and the party loyalists and hero worshipers here at DU will really view us as irritants after the party loses it's majorities next year. Should be fun.

[Blue State Blues]

73. to be a "good Democrat"

is to shut up and go along.

I guess I'm not a good Democrat, then. Because I can't, in good conscience, just shut up and go along.

The insurance companies have won. The Republicans have won. The Blue Dogs have won. The Democrats now have a choice of failure or catastrophic success.

If they fail to pass a bill, they look weak. They look ineffective.

If they pass THIS bill, a bill that includes poison pills for key Democratic demographics, a bill that takes tax-dollars now disproportionately collected from the middle-class and diverts them into the pockets of wealthy corporations, a bill that fails to include anything even called the "Public Option" even though the mythical Public Option has a higher approval rating than Congress or the President, a bill that doesn't provide relief until 2014 but starts collecting money now, a bill that doesn't contain cost-controls or sufficient guarantees of quality of coverage ....

You know, most ordinary Americans don't know or care about Blue Dogs or Joe Lieberman's ego or legislative sausage-making. They don't know the ins and outs of single-payer or market-place solutions. What ordinary Americans will know, however, is that every year their premiums go up and every year their coverage pays for less. They will "know" the Democrats are responsible, and they will not forgive them for it.

Many of them will even believe the story that the reason their coverage gets more expensive as it gets worse, is that it is the natural result of covering more people. That there is a limited quantity of "health care" so if some other people get any, you must get less.

Of course, if the Democrats do nothing, every year premiums will go up and every year insurance will cover less -- it is the insurance industry's business plan.

Democrats have to do something, true. But just passing any bill is not the answer. It also has to work.

[Major Hogwash]

76. Did Fowler see John Stewart's impression of Droopy Dog the other day? I cried when I saw it

Best commentary yet of how much we agree with Droopy Dog Lieberman.

Yeah, we're in league with that fucking asshole, right!!

[mdmc]

77. ha.ha. Fowler is a joke..