Now it is about far more than health care. Party's true face has been shown....

[madfloridian]

this week since Howard Dean took head in hand and dared to suggest the bill was not all it should be. A true face of what the Democratic party has become emerged. It took since the 80s, but it is now complete it seems.

"ideologically freed, frankly, from taking positions that make it difficult for Democrats to win."

"Simon Rosenberg, the former field director for the DLC who directs the New Democrat Network, a spin-off political action committee, says, "We're trying to raise money to help them lessen their reliance on traditional interest groups in the Democratic Party. In that way," he adds, "they are ideologically freed, frankly, from taking positions that make it difficult for Democrats to win."

That has come into full bloom now.

The health care bill will pass with flying colors; even the ones who have been on MSNBC telling the truth about it have caved and will vote for it. One even said it was a bad bill, but he would vote for it anyway.

So it has moved beyond the bill now.

It has moved into the realm of what a party does when it is in total control of the power seats. It shows who they are and what they stand for.

Howard Dean is a private citizen who once ran for president, who was chairman of the party when it won back all 3 seats of power. He was then shunned by those in leadership.

Someone posted here at DU a question to the effect should Dean really be allowed to speak out like that. Well, yes, the answer is yes.

When he spoke out this week against the bill he was speaking as a private citizen who is irate that we have been sold a sorry bill by catering to just a minority of corporate Democrats.

He put himself in a position to be slammed by this administration who never criticizes the right. He most likely knew he was doing that. I guess he figured since his future roles in the party are pretty much nil, he might as well speak out in honesty.

Here are some of the words used against him just by the WH spokespersons...irrational, irrelevant, insane.

And the blogs and groups that espouse White House policy are just getting warmed up today. I won't post them, they don't deserve the attention. The bloggers who want to keep access, the congressmen who want their seats and committee positions will vote for the bill, and they will criticize Dean though they once agreed with him.

The Center for American Progress, John Podesta's think tank formed to push Clinton's policies....was for a while posting Howard Dean's health care policies and pushing the public option. They were supportive.

Not anymore. Think Progress is now having to support the WH position on health care. Of course they would.

I realize this is politics. So many here talk to people like me in terms that make it seem like we are wrong because we are not politically "astute".

Oh, I may not be politically savvy, but I am no fool. I find myself more and more seeing things more clearly. The things I have believed in I believe in more strongly now. I thought my party believed in those things but not so much anymore. Unions are having to fight for existence, especially teachers' unions which are treated with scorn. Women's rights are not deemed very important, not like I thought they would be under Democrats. Stricter now on women's rights, and not much improvement in rights of gays. DADT and DOMA still around.

I expected there to be separation of church and state, instead I see a church group sitting down with the House Speaker to write a bill.

When the WH turned this into personal attacks on Dean they were sending a message to those who might agree with him. That message was toe the line.

So now it has gone beyond health care into something else. We saw this week who the party leaders value. It is not us.

[Jamastiene]

1. K&R

[bjobotts]

98. This is not the party's true face...this is a handful of dems.End filibuster rule and all would pass

[Usrename]

119. Why does the White House try to demonize Howard Dean?

Why would they do that? This shouldn't be so easily shrugged off. Is it because Dean represents what the "rank and file Democratic voters" want, what we believe in?

This is much more important than a handful of blue dogs.

[defendandprotect]

136. From the beginning, this administration has taken corporate interests . . .

into the White House and -- most particularly on health care but on other issues, as

well -- has ignored the needs of the people.

To end war --

To half this insane military budget --

To be free from wiretapping and spying on citizens --

To stop behaving illegally and immorally in the world with military bullying --

To address the needs of our impoverished and homeless -- and SICK.

What is happening to America today -- the decades long GOP effort to create a "third world

America" -- is nothing new for much of the world which has experienced it.

It's simply now OUR TURN!!

[juno jones]

2. K&R! n/t

[mdmc]

3. kr

[Little Star]

4. k&r

[dana_b]

5. "irrational, irrelevant, insane"

well, I guess a lot of the American people are also, including myself. That's alright. I'm in good company. ;)

[mzmolly]

6. Bologna. WE are the "true face" of the "Party" - LIEberman is ONE person

Nelson is ONE person, sans both of them we'd be in a much better position.

[HuckleB]

9. +1

[mzmolly]

79. Thanks.

:hi:

[madfloridian]

10. But they are getting power out of proportion.

Why is that?

[mzmolly]

13. Because we need 60 votes and we have roughly 58.

:shrug: We need MORE Democrats in Government, not less.

[madfloridian]

14. We don't need 60 votes.

The GOP did not have 60 votes when they passed so many things.

They did not worry about hurting our feelings, they rammed them through.

Problem is some of the Democrats holding things up voted with them.

[mzmolly]

15. But we do for the major portion of legislation.

As Harkin pointed out we'd lose much without going the normal senate route.

Let me be clear, I support Dean in his urging Dems to fix the bill. But, I resent the notion that Lieberman IS the Democratic Party. He's not.

[madfloridian]

16. I am sorry you resent it.

We will have fewer Dems in 2010 than we do now.

We are not using our majority.

I have read discussions on how the reconciliation could work on this. But only the GOP can do that.

[mzmolly]

17. As I've said, I support Dean and I don't wish to scrap the notion

of reconciliation as a last resort. BUT your OP indicating that Lieberman is the face of the Party is wrong. That is what I wanted to address with comment here.

[madfloridian]

20. Not just Lieberman. Nelson, Landrieu, et al.

They have gotten what they wanted every step of the way.

Lieberman seems more treasured than anyone on the left. Rahm told Reid to make him a deal.

[mzmolly]

21. Lieberman is an independent and Nelson and Landrieu are two people.

What about the entire House? What about the rest of the Senate.

I get so tired of the assertion that we = Republicans because a couple people essentially suck. It's just not so. We have to keep our perspective MF.

Peace.

[madfloridian]

26. I have my perspective now much more than in the past.

That's the problem you see.

[pocoloco]

87. They are in fucking charge, why shoudn't they be the face of the party?

[freddie mertz]

132. I am pretty sure the WH sent Landrieu out onto Hardball

For that coordinated attack on Dean.

Matthews made HIS views clear enough then too, carrying Rahm's water by accusing Dean of "demagoguery."

When the corrupt DLC DINO Landrieu becomes Obama's hit woman against the most prominent Dem progressive voice, you know something is rotten at 1600 PA Ave.

[defendandprotect]

139. I completely agree with your comments . . . however, anyone still watching

anything on TV but a few selected bits of programming is aiding and abetting these lies.

Put the TVs in the closet -- !!!!

[ChiciB1]

170. I DID Do That For A While, But I Found Out I Didn't See The Actions

they were taking through the media lens! Sure YouTube provides a lot, but to see it first hand gives you a LOT of perspective! As much as I detest having to get a lot of news that way, I no longer think I need to turn off MSM! They too are guiding the way here in America!

Don't get me wrong, I watch a lot of "alternative" TV, BBC etc., but I'm back watching MSM because it shows me more stupidity that makes me understand where so many other American's are buying their "milk" from!

It's REALLY a drag, but had I not been watching it, I wouldn't have seen how Dean has stood up to POWER! And yes, they will do ANYTHING to shut him down, they've done it in the past and will keep doing it! IT MUST STOP!! How? I don't know! REVOLT? That may be the only way, sorry to say, even if others don't think it works. What's going on now should NOT BE TOLERATED, and sitting here typing away isn't affecting THEM at all!

I Have Seen The Enemy & It Is Me!! Is that the right quote? Just took some meds for my back and think I need to lay down for a while! Woozey, Doozey!

Had to add my .00001 cents!

[defendandprotect]

187. Find your comments very interesting and I imagine many feel the same way . . .

Presume you mean you are monitoring it -- ???

Unfortunately, right wing propaganda is highly successful --

Also agree that the situation is intolerable -- and we need a Plan B -- !!!

What troubles me mainly is the subjects which aren't discussed --



Here's one that delivered us into the hell of Cheney/Bush . . .

I think everyone is aware of the problems with the individual voting machine --

however, many don't know that at the same time -- mid-1960's -- the large computers

used by MSM began to come in.

Previously, the networks could only report actual votes for candidates --

yeah -- they could have a bunch of guys sitting around BS'ing about what they thought

was going to happen, but that was it.

The large computers brought new illegitimate powers to the network where they could now

now only report actual totals, but they could PREDICT winning candidates -- and CALL

elections for candidates -- and CALL states for presidential candidates. CALL electoral

votes and declare winners in presidential elections.


When we begin to reflect on those unintentional powers assumed by our corporate-press,

we begin to see how the power to CALL elections/states was reversed into the power to

RECALL an election --

John Ellis/Fox news did just that in 2000 -- RECALLING the state of Florida from Gore and

then CALLING it for Bush.

This is NOT the kind of power that any corporate-news organization should have acquired or

should continue to hold!!

[madfloridian]

153. And she lied about Dean to his face and no one defended him.

[mzmolly]

157. I don't think so. Though I understand the need for Dean to speak out now and

I'm thankful for him doing so.

[Jackpine Radical]

85. Nelson, Lieberman, Landrieu, Baucus, Bayh, and one more.

Obama.

Well, actually, a lot more

But definitely Obama.

The "ObamaRahma."

[mzmolly]

158. Remember when Bush joked about wishing he were a dictator?

Obama is not a dictator. Also, the majority of those you named JP, were fine with the notion of expanding medicare. Yet NOT ONE Republican will support the new bill, in spite of stripping that measure?

[bonnieS]

115. I thought we were talking about Obama

Feingold said Obama got the bill he always wanted. I agree. We don't even know how bad it is as new things pop up every day and Obama says "Pass it!" He always said he was not tied to any one particular component, and he is the one who made the deals with Big Pharma, not Lieberman. Lieberman is not the one putting "people of faith" on Boards that will decide on giving money in areas that might include abortion. Do you see Obama fighting Stupak which I believe will be in the final bill and put women back half a century or more? Is that totally forgotten? Does Lieberman have to be the one to agree to ending DADT? There is a bill in--why doesn't Obama get behind it? It is not all about the heath care bill--what happened to the Employee Free Choice Act? Is that Lieberman, too? Is there any leadership at all on "our" issues???? Does being President not matter, or is the President setting the tone?????

In a few months the Liebermans and Obamas may well go off on a vacation together. Did anyone ever notice that Obama supported Lieberman over a real Democrat?

[Dragonfli]

41. They have been given the power to run the parties policies, so they are the new face.

If the leadership really disagreed with them, THEY would be the ones worried about keeping their committees.

If the leadership wanted to pass real reform and not criminalize the near poor with fines they can not afford, Then they would have called the filibuster bluff and let the obstructionists defend their shutting down government to support their campain bribes and the interests of the corporations on cspan (you do know the majority is in favor of the things that they fight don't you).

An actual filibuster and not the gentleman's version that says the bluff is enough, often backfires on the obstructionists, that is why it was so rare before Reid decided that a verbal threat of a filibuster was enough to make him shit his pants.

There have been over 90 filibusters this year because the opposition can simply bluff and win and they know it.

The ones seen calling the shots for the party (in this case Lieberman and the conservadems) ARE the face of the party to the people that watch then exert their near absolute power to decide the content of our legislation and the direction of our party.

They would not have this power if it were not given them, you are fooling yourself if you think otherwise.

[mzmolly]

52. The conspiracy

theories never cease to amaze.

[Dragonfli]

60. The power of corporate money and it's effect on our legislature is no theory.

But thanks for doing your part to excuse the selling of policy and the blind eye given by the administration.

I guess if I were to applaud this behavior I would be a GOOD citizen, just like you.

I apologize for pointing out the obvious, I know the truth is painful for those marks that need approval from those that abuse them.

[mzmolly]

74. Actually, I support Howard Dean's assertion that the bill should be

fixed or nixed. I just refuse to pretend that Dean isn't representative of Democrats and LIEberman is.

[defendandprotect]

142. You're failing to acknowledge that the Lieberman myth has been created . . .

and by whom?

By the same people who have given you the "irrational" myth of Howard Dean --

[Indenturedebtor]

108. Don't be too hard on her. She doesn't want to see that her children are now the propery of Carls Jr

[Jim Sagle]

67. Even more amazing is how the flying squad of five buck an hour DLC hogwash dispensers maintains

perfect formation as it shits all over this board.

[mzmolly]

73. I'll add that to the list of bizarre

conspiracy theories as well, thanks.

[Jim Sagle]

80. Yeah, you do that. Five bucks an hour is worth yer self-respect, I guess.

:puke:

[mzmolly]

81. If I made $5 an hour to support Dean while working for the DLC

they'd be paying me too much, no?

:eyes:

[defendandprotect]

141. Because we all know this is "conspiracy-free America" . . . !!!

:eyes:

[DrZeeLit]

118. +1

[defendandprotect]

143. When did the GOP ever need 60 votes....????

Consider what the GOP has passed over the last 8 years!!!

Thru deception and lies and with much fewer than 60 votes!!!

[JVS]

147. We only need 60 votes if we assume we HAVE to pass SOMETHING

Anyone who eliminates the option of walking away in negotiations is a damned fool

[Indenturedebtor]

107. Pffft keep telling yourself that. Buy into their smoke screen all you want

But you know deep down that Lieberman and Nelson are insignificant in this. They could have pushed through a filibuster to save millions of American lives and instead they bowed to their corporate overlords.

I'm with the OP.

[defendandprotect]

137. Focus on the magic which has made Lieberman the most powerful person in America --

in fact, seemingly, he has power which rivals the President's!!!

[ChiciB1]

168. I Disagree... You STILL Have The "Rat" Named Rahm! He Has Been Given

far too much power and the leeway to do WHATEVER HE WANTS! Seems like he's Obama's GOD! I sincerely don't like talking like this, but that's how I see it! THIS Obama now, isn't THE OBAMA who "seemed" to be a person of truth, compassion and one who wanted to give the "little guy" a step up! All through the campaign I heard it! I actually went to THREE very large, VERY HOT rallies here in Florida, and I HEARD him say things about taxing the rich! I heard him talk about REAL HEALTH CARE REFORM, that doesn't look ANYTHING like what I'm seeing! Fight the Big Insurance Companies, don't let them control us, fight the banks with more regulation... there's more, but what's the use! So many of us KNOW this stuff by heart, and still they dismiss us like yesterday's garbage!

THIS MAN has seems a bit alien to me! AND NOW, The Audacity to call Dean out for speaking up, and speaking TRUTH TO POWER!

THIS isn't a Democratic Party that I even recognize much anymore. But then, I'm one of those "hippie" types, and WE NEVER got anything done! We sat on our asses while they fed us SLOP! Oh, No We DIDN'T! I realize we can't go back and repeat what got done, but we SURE AS HELL can do BETTER THAN THIS!

I WANT my Party back... I WANT my Country back! We need to unite AGAINST this NEW SLOP and throw it right back at the "powers that be!"

JMHO!

[Truth2Tell]

7. Superb post. K&R nt

[noise]

8. We have seen it over and over

Some clever tactics are employed to confuse the public. For example, the teabagger movement was exploited to get disgusted democrats to rally for the Obama administration. The teabagger movement in effect raised the tolerance level for the Obama administration's questionable policies. Both party bases were exploited with the teabagger movement.

Another tactic is defining the most public friendly policy as far left. Thus the quest for affordable, quality healthcare is portrayed as some bizarre far left fringe blogger (have to throw in the word blogger) effort. The MAJORITY of the public wants affordable, quality healthcare.

[Enthusiast]

109. It's not a conspiracy theory

if it is true. This same kind of shit went on during the Clinton Administration. The corporatists pretend to relinquish power when a Democrat is elected, then the public and media pretend right along with them.

[defendandprotect]

144. And we're to believe that most of other nations with universal health care are "irrational" . . .!!!

:evilgrin:

[WT Fuheck]

11. more than 50% of the US population is not represented by either political party.

Indeed, in my cynical moments I glimpse the truth: 98% of the US population is not represented by either political party.

[madfloridian]

84. I think it is becoming more and more that way.

The GOP keeps going right, and our party keeps following them.

[defendandprotect]

145. Agree . . . . wholeheartedly . . . but what's Plan B????

[HughMoran]

12. "slammed by this administration who never criticizes the right."

ok.

[WillyT]

18. K & R !!!

:kick:

[Mari333]

19. knr

[kath]

22. Yep - the masks are really off now.

Corporate one-party rule, only the illusion of democracy.

[Echo In Light]

23. Blind for all to see

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b7nIhrbqWg

[Laelth]

24. k&r for the truth, however depressing. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[amborin]

25. k&r

[quiet.american]

27. You know why I don't agree with these types of posts?

Because while they focus like a laser on what "the party hasn't done," they give no credit, none, for the measures that have been taken. But it goes further than that, it's to the point where I have the impression people actually WANT to be disappointed in/despise Obama, because any thread that actually points to how he is taking action that reflects our values is unrec'd and torpedoed.

So much of the current zeitgeist here is also based on total misinformation.

For instance, there's a thread with a lot of anger and rage about how Obama supposedly killed off drug importation, based on of all things, a screaming headline in Rupert Murdoch's The Wall Street Journal.

The opposite is actually true: The Obama administration, upon taking office, actually requested funds from Congress for the FDA to build out its infrastructure to support the importation of drugs. The Senate has just approved the bill, and funding is now actually in place for importing drugs. Where did I get this info? From a thread that was on DU at the same time, but that got unrec'd and torpedoed.

Most of the posters on that "serious accusation" thread simply took it for granted that the story was true in its entirety and did the usual whaling away on Obama, without even a thought that it *might*, just *might* not be true -- and in fact, it isn't. The opposite is true.

I've seen Obama work his butt off during his first year in office, and because of his efforts, I have personally seen not only myself, but people I know, benefit, even if in small ways -- unemployment insurance extended, payroll tax cut, Soc. Sec. stimulus checks, COBRA subsidized and extended.

It's really disappointing to see DU relentlessly pile on.

[madfloridian]

30. There is NO misinformation in my post. The attacks came from the WH toward us.

And that it why I posted it.

At least be honest in your criticism. You listed things other posters have done to criticize me. I resent it.

I do NOT post misinformation.

[quiet.american]

38. Mad, I did not say in my post that your post contains misinformation.

However, upon re-reading it, I do see how it could be that read that way, and that is my fault in the writing.

[madfloridian]

40. Thank you.

.

[Politics_Guy25]

191. MadFloridian...interesting that you failed to refute....

the post about the specific progressive policy items that the administration has implemented in just 1 short year. Instead, you go off on a rant about "how dare you accuse me of posting misinformation" when a) the poster did none of the above and b) totally ignore the good policies of this administration.

Anyway, you obviously have no understanding of the pragmatic nature of politics. Enjoy President Palin! Then you can write long posts on here about how bad she is as well in 2013 I'm sure.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[quiet.american]

37. Dupe, wrong place. nt

[bertman]

94. quiet.american, you sound as if there should be a choir of angels singing President Obama's

praises for doing things that any sentient creature would have EXPECTED from a Democratic administration with a Democratic Congress and a huge rolling force of public support behind them. Our great displeasure is with the things that SHOULD have been done that have been neglected, botched, or apparently intentionally done the opposite of the way the great majority of us felt they were going to be done.

If that's piling on, to demand that a President who said "make me do it" actually do it, well fuckin' aye I'm pilin' on.

[saracat]

100. Your facts are not correct. Even David Gergen on CNN talked of the Big POharma deal

and the Obama agreement to deny drug reimportation with Anderson Cooper. Tom Harkin also dicussed this yesterday and admitted he knew it to be true. I have some friends in the Admin who also knew about this. The deal was made.Obama hoped to avoid the conflict that met HCR in the Clinton years by making a deal with Big Pharma not to oppose HCR.

[quiet.american]

106. Well, here's a transcript from the WH/Blogger's conference call relating to this:

(Transcript is mine: if you do a search on DU for Madrak, that should lead to the original thread with the audio link)

Blogger Susie Madrak: I used to work for an FDA controlling firm and I thought that whole manuever with the importing the pharmaceutical drugs was shameless. I mean, everybody knows that, you know, anybody in the industry knows that the FDA inspects those facilities in other countries, but in fact a lot of the pharmaceutical companies that are bringing those drugs into the country from those exact same plants... and considering that President Obama campaigned on this, you know, I just would like to hear some feedback on that.

WH (my note: didn't get the name of the person speaking): On your second point, (the above was Madrak's second question) one of the good things that happened this week is that the Labor HHS bill was among the bills that was finally approved by the Senate. And in that bill was a proposal that President Obama put forth as soon as he got here, which is to get the FDA started on the kind of work it needs to do to have the infrastructure and systems to do importation of drugs safely. The President is committed to that, he wants to get it done because he wants to get the savings for the American people.

Now, that said, you know, this has been an issue that has been around for years; there are a lot of legitimate concerns about safety. And, we've gotta get to the bottom of that. But that's why the President's not waiting around, he's got the money in the budget for the FDA to start working on how to just get the system up and running to do this kind of thing safely.

Madrak: What's the timeline on that.

WH: I don't know, but we got the money this week.

Madrak: Okay.

WH: We asked Congress for it, and we got it this week.

[Enthusiast]

111. "Get the system up and running."

What a load! IOW, we don't have reimportation and we are not going to get reimportation but we will wring our hands and try to make the electorate believe we are in favor of reimportation.

[quiet.american]

131. What can be said to that kind of cynicism.

This bill has taken almost the whole year to be passed by the Senate. The request for funding for FDA infrastructure to import drugs has been in the bill for almost the whole year. Now, the bill has passed and the funding is in place. But nothing is ever good enough. Not ever.

[saracat]

134. that was the blogger that was so impressed that she got to speak to anyone from the WH

that she completely bought the "message dicipline" thing all the WH is instructed to do.I choose to beleive the Senators and especially Sen. Dorgen, whose reimportation bill was the victim to this.And BTW, the safety issue was exposed as a crock ad the letter from the FDA Cheif used as evidence was also debunked and by the FDA cheif herself. Sen. Dorgen publicly indicated he thought it was written by the WH.Talk about those just buying into anything!

[quiet.american]

138. Dorgan's comments amount to speculation. The funding is in place. The bill has passed.

So, you buy into what you want. I prefer the facts of the matter. And that is that the proposal was in the bill. And the bill has been passed. And the funding is in place.

[saracat]

193. Wow. Dorgen is speculation and a internet blogger has the real facts right. Gotcha.

And gergen and everyone else are just wrong. Okey dokey.

[Enthusiast]

110. You say.

"The opposite is actually true: The Obama administration, upon taking office, actually requested funds from Congress for the FDA to build out its infrastructure to support the importation of drugs. The Senate has just approved the bill, and funding is now actually in place for importing drugs. Where did I get this info? From a thread that was on DU at the same time, but that got unrec'd and torpedoed."

Why have I never heard of this? It isn't Murdoch, it is every single media outlet, including everywhere on the internet. The Obama Administration has a sweetheart deal with the pharmaceutical industry to 'not include' the reimportation of drugs in the health care reform bill. This is not true? First I've ever heard of it. You will have to show me that it is not true.

[quiet.american]

140. Why can't you do your own search of DU? Or even read the transcript I posted up the thread?nt

[caseymoz]

154. Do you have the bill number, and what it reads?

It doesn't make sense that we would hear this from an anonymous WH somebody. It makes no sense whatsoever. If this is true, it's something that a president would put his name on it.

And is it a national program, or a pilot program, done say, only in Indiana and Montana?

I'll admit, I don't trust Obama at this point. He has done a lot to lose my trust and little to earn it. He's Bill Clinton without the wayward libido.

[defendandprotect]

148. Are we disappointed in corporatism/fascism . . . you bet-- !!! And we need solutins . . .

not denial and more delusion --

[mirrera]

185. The Dorgan amendment?

Contrary to your opinion I would LOVE to find out this is untrue:

<snip>
Sen. Byron Dorgan is unhappy that his amendment to the Senate health care bill on reimportation, which at one point appeared to have the votes for passage, failed after a late intervention from the Democratic leadership to preserve a deal with the drug industry. But Dorgan goes much further in pointing fingers specifically at the Obama Administration for the defeat, even intimating that the White House wrote a letter from the FDA about safety without the Commissioner’s knowledge.

Last week, he said he heard rumors that the FDA was going to send a letter objecting to drug importation on safety grounds, which he has said is a bogus reason. He said he called FDA Commissioner Margaret Hamburg, who said she knew nothing about such a letter.

He said his timeline shows that a letter, signed by Hamburg questioning the safety of drug imports, was sent 24 hours later to a few senators who opposed importation. That piece of paper became a rallying cry for other senators who voted down Dorgan’s amendment.

“I think the letter was prompted, probably drafted somewhere else,” like “the White House” Dorgan said.

That’s a pretty inflammatory charge. According to the story, the White House has not responded to it. They haven’t yet responded to my query, either.

http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/12/17/dorgan-exploring-mystery-of-who-killed-his-reimportation-legislation/

-----------------

[mirrera]

186. The Dorgan amendment?

Contrary to your opinion I would LOVE to find out this is untrue:

<snip>
Sen. Byron Dorgan is unhappy that his amendment to the Senate health care bill on reimportation, which at one point appeared to have the votes for passage, failed after a late intervention from the Democratic leadership to preserve a deal with the drug industry. But Dorgan goes much further in pointing fingers specifically at the Obama Administration for the defeat, even intimating that the White House wrote a letter from the FDA about safety without the Commissioner’s knowledge.

Last week, he said he heard rumors that the FDA was going to send a letter objecting to drug importation on safety grounds, which he has said is a bogus reason. He said he called FDA Commissioner Margaret Hamburg, who said she knew nothing about such a letter.

He said his timeline shows that a letter, signed by Hamburg questioning the safety of drug imports, was sent 24 hours later to a few senators who opposed importation. That piece of paper became a rallying cry for other senators who voted down Dorgan’s amendment.

“I think the letter was prompted, probably drafted somewhere else,” like “the White House” Dorgan said.

That’s a pretty inflammatory charge. According to the story, the White House has not responded to it. They haven’t yet responded to my query, either.

http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/12/17/dorgan-exploring-mystery-of-who-killed-his-reimportation-legislation/

[Bonhomme Richard]

28. I'm afraid that you are right and I have been very naive. n/t

[debbierlus]

29. TELL IT, SISTER!

They have seriously miscalculated our resolve and our determination.

They are pouring gasoline on a smouldering fire.

They don't want to represent the American people, FINE. They are declaring war against every American citizen who believes they deserve the representation of their elected leaders.

[BlueJac]

32. Your thoughts are clear and correct, great post!

[bigwillq]

33. K and R.

:bounce:

[onethatcares]

34. I read the Democratic Party principles last night and

actually agreed with what their purpose is. Sadly, the elected forgot what they started out with and fell in love with the trappings of importance and money.

Time to vote them out, I know of no other way to change our country.

[madfloridian]

156. And one of them was to protect the right of women

to have reproductive care, you know, like abortions.

They sure forgot that one today.

[Politics_Guy25]

192. The only alternative that can get elected right now is the GOP/Teabagger Palin party

Are you saying throw Obama/Reid/Pelosi out and put in people like Palin and that NY 23 constitution party guy instead?

You're dreaming if you think there can be a viable third party in the U.S. It's either the Dems or Republicans sweetie. Nader doesn't have a prayer sorry to inform you.

[inna]

35. kr

[kenny blankenship]

36. They are freed from taking positions that would cut off the corporate cash money shower

that's what motivates them. Meaning they WILL take unpopular positions, very unpopular ones, if it means the corporate donation hose stays on.

[Vidar]

39. K&R.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

42. You yourself were attacking Dean over something trivial a few weeks ago.

So pardon me if I don't take you seriously.

[madfloridian]

46. I have my own mind and disagree with everyone quite often

and I say so.

You seem so angry with me that you are always posting something silly like that.

I disagree with most everyone at times.

[madfloridian]

47. You know what? That is very silly thing to criticize me about.

And the more I think about it, the sillier it seems. It means you have nothing important to say and choose to attack over something silly.

[20score]

43. Agree completely!

And for the record, Ms. Madfloridian, you rock.

[Starry Messenger]

44. k & r

[scentopine]

45. There is desperate need for a new political party -nt

[defendandprotect]

151. Keep in mind this two-party myth has also been keeping its foot on the necks of ...

third parties -- and keeping them from getting onto ballots, etal --

The core of this is that as long as the only competitition for the Demcratic Party

is the near-fascist GOP, then the Democratic Party will continue to be moved to the right.

And, Democrats are not about to forgo this certainty in favor of any real competition!!!

[Goldstein1984]

48. You ARE politically astute madfloridian

You see right through obfuscation.

This isn't about Democrat or Republican, or about Right or Left within parties. It's about non-representative government--elected officials who betray the people to serve corporations.

The party has a people's platform it rolls out for elections, and a corporate platform it pursues the rest of the time.

There's a club, and the people aren't in it.

There's a party, and the people aren't invited.

There's an agenda, and the people aren't on it.

There's an economic recovery, and the people aren't included.

[theFrankFactor]

62. A-Frikin'-Men!!!!

[Raksha]

190. That's for damn sure!

[tavalon]

49. Yeah, this is the week to smack down purists

That's the current snide name for those who maintain their position in the face of politics.

This seems a fine time to bring up a joke my husband used to make = Poli + tics = Many Blood Sucking Creatures.

[upi402]

50. All hail the UNIPARTY. Resistance is futile. eom

[Efilroft Sul]

76. On the contrary, resistance is vital.

"We must all hang together, gentlemen...else, we shall most assuredly hang separately."
— Ben Franklin, who forgot to mention the ladies

[upi402]

160. You are 100% right

TY !

[walldude]

53. K&R What I really love about all this mess is I'm constantly told

"Well then it will be your fault when Palin is president". So what these people are saying is I am required to vote for these people who basically just told me and the people I agree with to shut the fuck up and deal with it, because they are the lesser of 2 evils?

Any of you who keep telling me that still believe it? That I should get out there and vote for the people who just told me that I am irrational and should shut the fuck up? Well I'd like to thank all of you who claim that if I don't support a Democrat who is out to screw me that it will be my fault the country is ruined. You are the best enablers these scumbags have. Keep telling them that you will vote for them no matter what, because the other choice is worse. That should help them in their decisions to totally fuck you over.

Shit I guess people do still believe it. Right after I posted this one of "those" threads showed up. Funny how it was written by one of the 6 people I would have expected it from.

[sabrina 1]

104. If there is a Palin presidency, I know who will be to blame for that

And it will not be those who are trying to warn Democrats that if they do not listen to the people who gave them the power they have, they will be responsible for a Republican majority in 2010 and the Republicans back in power completely in 2012.

And that is one of the worst things that is likely to happen as a result of Democrats' refusing to stand up for the people. There is nothing we can do to persuade millions of people to vote for them again, even if we were inclined to do so.

I saw a poll today on the Health Care Bill. The results should really scare any Democrat who is up for reelection next year. Only 33% support this bill. The part of the bill that a majority of those polled are literally up in arms over, is the part that forces the working poor to buy shoddy insurance which they will never use, because their co-pays will be far more than they can afford.

The American people are not stupid, and the majority of them are not bloggers who can be yelled at on the internet. They get that this bill, even if it's only the mandate part of it, is a bad bill.

If there is a Republican resurgence, there will be no doubt whose fault it is and those attempting to shift the blame will also be responsible. Because they too should be fighting hard to make sure it doesn't happen, instead of enabling Democrats who either don't care if they lose, or don't believe that the base will walk away this time.

[Enthusiast]

112. Damn, Sabrina, that's a nice post.

I feel the same as you. I won't be guilt tripped next time around.

[sabrina 1]

175. Good for you, Enthusiast, me neither.

I hate emotional manipulation like that, especially when it is not based on truth ... :-)

[Bette Noir]

54. Thank you for using the phrase "toe the line" correctly.

Most people get that one wrong, and it drives me crazy.

[madfloridian]

176. I know exactly what you mean. Tow the line drives me nuts.

:rofl:

[midnight]

55. We can allow the party to continue to support the corporate wants over our

needs or we can all speak out. Howard Dean has shown us, and it is now up to each of us-don't be silent.

[cliffordu]

56. K&R

[laughingliberal]

57. K & R nt

[democracy1st]

58. K & R

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

59. Beautifully said. K&R

[Thickasabrick]

61. One of the best posts ever...K&R nt

[NorthCarolina]

63. What you are seeing is the face of the DLC which has no place in the Democratic Party

It is my hope that Democrats begin to systematically purge these Corporate Conservative DLC members from the Democratic Party.

[aquart]

146. And this is where I draw the line.

Anyone who would purge would purge me, eventually, because I am never pure enough for anyone.

You would have purged me for not supporting Obama in the primaries.

The "DLC" is now your al qaida, your bogeyman, your monster under the bed. Your hatred of them is as mindless and irrational as anything I see from the Republicans.

I am perfectly fine with primary challenges to everyone I disagree with. That's the mechanism of democracy. "Purge" is the mechanism of tyranny.

[Major Hogwash]

64. An attempt to make them unaccountable for their voting records!!

Unreal, they're acting just like Republicans.

[Enthusiast]

113. It's a disease. nt

[Atticus]

65. K & R ---------A good read. Thanks.

[MSchreader]

66. What are you going to do about it?

Now that the honeymoon is over, the "hope dope" has worn off and you're standing there looking at the face of your party in the mirror, now what?

[AnnInLa]

68. Hear, Hear!

If you start with the assumption that both parties are almost fully owned by corporate interests, then both parties are vying for the money that those corporate interests donate to keep particular political parties in power. And you have even good men like Obama & Company making secret pacts with Big Pharma and Health Insurance companies re the Health Care Bill so that those corporations give piles and piles of cash to the Dem Party, not the Republican Party. Good and not-so-good men in both parties are chasing the corporate money, so they can stay in power. What's good for the people is a by-product, not the main goal of legislation. Legislation must further enrich the corporations, and if some people get helped by the leg, then that's just frosting on the cake. If you didn't read this diary from Daily Kos, you'd better taqke a look:

http://bit.ly/75ahOS

This country no longer aspires to ideals, only to money and things. So what will we do, those of us who cling to our ideals and think that the next Dem leader will make things better, ideally? Shit, who knows? I think I'm joining the Tea-baggers. (not)

[divideetimpera]

69. this essay by Joe Bageant seems relevant

http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2009/11/-shoot-the-fat-guys.html#more

[madfloridian]

72. From last year on BBC...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_7600000/7600592.stm

It was interview of him called Why Rednecks may rule the World.

I have never heard of him, but that really got my attention.

From your link, this was powerful...about 2/3 of the way down.

"It was the snuffing out of what compassion remained in the Democratic Party that ceded the political stage to hard rightist forces. The Democratic leadership, fickle spineless cunts that they are, let the rightists reduce everything to ideological warfare, handing the rightists the field of play.

It no longer matters if Democrats are the majority. We don't see our warfare abroad decreasing. It's expanding. And following an ideological war over healthcare reform, we "won." We got reform. Reform which forces 40 million of America's poorest and hardest working folks into bed with insurance corporations, sucking an additional 70 billion dollars a year in public funds from the citizens' pockets into insurance industry coffers. We don't need the insurance companies at all. Never did. Never will. But they are still leeching us because "we won." We the supposed proponents of universal healthcare, we who believe in the right of all children and old folks, the right of all people to freedom from pain and misery, we won."

[bleever]

92. That is a fascinating point.

Thanks to you both for the insight.

[divideetimpera]

194. Bageant on Dem activist hate for rural white working class

I think that one of joe's points here is that democratic activists sort of hate the rural white working class, and that this hate is what prevents a unified Left among the largest bloc in america--whites.

[Raine]

70. On point ... TOTALLY! ... K & R nt

:thumbsup:

[chill_wind]

71. The DLC contemptuously compares Rachel Maddow fans to Limbaugh fans--

calling both "Partisan Superfans" (read fringe, here, I guess) in the HCR debate, making too much political noise in this democracy and driving away all the poor soccer moms and NASCAR dads from any interest in the debate. And that's who matters. Not the swing voters AND us. JUST them.


And THAT was written in September. They do indeed want us to go away.


Partisan Superfans are Driving Average Americans From Politics
Opposing sides are so vested in winning the battle that they’ve lost sight of the bigger war
By Marc Dunkelman
Posted September 2, 2009

Marc Dunkelman is a vice president of the Democratic Leadership Council.

(I posted this link recently, but it really helps underscore madfloridian's points.)

http://www.usnews.com/articles/opinion/2009/09/02/partisan-superfans-are-driving-average-americans-from-politics.html?PageNr=1


PS-- K & R.

[provis99]

75. fuck the DLC. I hate them more than I hate Republicans

at least the Republicans are the obvious enemy. The DLC are the enemy within.

[chill_wind]

91. Reading their site is like entering some loony twilight zone

of essay after essay, trying to figure out how much we can out-Right the Right.

[Enthusiast]

114. +1, provis99!

If their behavior is indistinguishable from the Republican's why should we support them? They are just wearing a different uniform. Fuck that noise.

[newspeak]

82. and, that really bothers me

I wonder if the distinction is intentionally being manipulated--as if those who believe in the democratic platform, those who are Wellstone, FDR democrats are being compared to the fundy right wing fringe to alienate those in the democratic party who actually remember what our platform stood for, instead of the DLC pro-corporate platform (or should I say the repuke platform).

[chill_wind]

89. How about this from 2006: "Support the war! Per aspera ad astra! Onward to victory! "

Here's a thought for Democrats angling for political advantage and the moral high ground: Support the war! Per aspera ad astra! Onward to victory! "Our national interests demand that we not leave Iraq until we are assured that it will not become a threat to Americans' safety. And our national honor demands that, having invaded their country, we not abandon the Iraqi people to chaos and sectarian violence."

These eloquent sentences do not flow from the pen of Karl Rove. They are found in the preface to a new book, "With All Our Might: A Progressive Strategy for Defeating Jihadism and Defending Liberty." Edited by Will Marshall, a founder of the Democratic Leadership Council, the book brings together 14 essays from Clinton Administration all-stars such as Kenneth Pollack, Daniel Benjamin and Graham Allison; topics include nuclear terrorism, Democrats and the military, Muslim economies, Islamic identity, unconventional wars, and democratization in the Middle East. This isn't Bush-lite: Criticism of the administration's handling of the war on terror rings from nearly every page.

But the book is equally a rebuke of what Mr. Marshall calls the party's "non-interventionist left." Democrats, he says in a phone interview, "shouldn't make the mistake of renouncing our ideas just because Bush has appropriated them." Advancing democracy "is fundamentally the Democrats' legacy, the Democrats' cause, and the Democrats' responsibility."

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253918&kaid=85&subid=900184

And more. So much more.... just do a search in their site's engine on "the left".

http://www.dlc.org/

( Gosh, I see they're quoting Politico on their front page right now. )

Yes, I think it's safe to assume their casual comparison in the prior linked piece was anything but casual.

Health Care Reform? Butt OUT!

"This will have to be compromised."

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=255027&kaid=85&subid=900184

[chill_wind]

90. dupe hiccup- delete

[puebloknot]

77. Cracks in the Democratic Party "egg" are starting to appear. I say that ...

... not with satisfaction, but with recognition that things have to change if we are to survive as a free nation.

Thanks for the hard work you do on an almost-daily basis. Yours is an honest and cogent voice!

[madfloridian]

78. No satisfaction at all.

Just kind of a sadness.

[grahamhgreen]

83. Spot on. What's next?

[madfloridian]

155. I don't know what's next, frankly.

Hubby and gave almost a thousand to Obama's campaign, and we felt good about it.

Now I feel used.

[grahamhgreen]

178. How bout a class action law suit?

[MissDeeds]

86. K&R

I cannot believe what has occurred under the guise of a Democratic administration.

[taught_me_patience]

88. Awesome post. big K & R!... n/t

[daughter of liberty2]

93. Good analysis on the party .

It really irks me when the administration calls Dean insane etc.:mad:

[madfloridian]

102. Thanks, and...

welcome to DU. It has been appalling to see them rally their troops to attack Dean, but he was expecting it I am sure.

[bertman]

95. K and a HUGE R. nt

[JackDragna]

96. I hear you, loud and clear.

Time to get the undemocratic folk out of the Democratic Party.

[McCamy Taylor]

97. Wow. To paraphrase the new DNC position "Fuck labor, fuck women, fuck gays

fuck Hispanics, fuck the poor, fuck consumers."

I am just appalled. But not surprised. I have seen it happen before.

[bjobotts]

99. Dean is basing his objections on facts not ideology.We have the 51 senators to pass good legislation

[elleng]

101. DLC is 'us.'

DLC = "We're trying to raise money to help them lessen their reliance on traditional interest groups in the Democratic Party."

[winyanstaz]

103. I have known for a long time that it was only one party with two faces...

but I did want Obama to break their grip. Damn it..this is so depressing to me...but we have to find a way to come together and save our party and our nation.

[earcandle]

105. oh my. what to do?

[EndElectoral]

116. This is about a political party victory, not a good bill. Pretty damn disgusting.

[Time for change]

117. "ideologically freed, frankly, from taking positions that make it difficult for Democrats to win."

Wow!! That's one of the most cynical statements I've ever seen. What a shame.

They're not getting a dime from me any more.

[ipaint]

120. This has been the obvious case for 30 years.

To the working class and poor anyway. Now the middle class joins us.

[dgibby]

121. You are VERY politically savvy!

And good for us that you are. I always appreciate your posts, and I always learn something. Thank you for all you do, madfloridian, and keep speaking Truth to Power. It's the only way we'll ever change the status quo.

I'm going to do my part by only supporting and contributing to progressive Dems. In the event there is no progressive Dem to challenge the moderates or pubbies, then I'll support a progressive 3rd party candidate.

It's time to take the Democratic Party back from the DLC, DINOS, and Blue Dogs. It's time to take the fight to them. They may have kidnapped the party, but I'll be damned if I'll pay the ransom!

[onlyadream]

122. Many dems are republicans -

since the GOP went so far to the right, the ones filling in the gap are calling themselves dems, but they are just repub-lites.

[madmom]

123. K&R ...sad but true

[quaker bill]

124. Dean was never opposed

to democrats being "ideologically freed, frankly, from taking positions that make it difficult for Democrats to win." Part of the "50 State Strategy" always was the recruitment of candidates who, rather than toeing the party line, could run and win in the Districts they would represent. You don't get guys with the "confederate flag on the back of their pickup truck" to vote for your candidate by running a bunch of Dennis Kucinich clones all over the country, and Dean never thought otherwise, and as best as I can tell, still doesn't. I know that you have been around DFA causes long enough to know this.

Dean rightly always saw it as better to have Senators and Representatives from these Districts that would vote with the party 50+ percent of the time when the alternative was having Senators and Representatives that would vote against us 100 percent of the time. He was and still is right about this.

What we are seeing now is the end result. We have a large majority numerically, but one that requires alot of compromise to hold together. This is and always was the predictable result of the "50 State Strategy". Dean created the strategy knowing this to be true.

I think the only surprise to Dean and many party leaders is that we actually achieved the nominal "60 vote" level in the senate, this soon. Few expected this even on election eve. If we had 55 or 56 seats, more in line with expectations, everyone would know that compromise would be necessary. Many people here are confused by the number 60 and actually believe compromise is no longer necessary. This was never the case and I don't think Dean ever believed it would be.

The "face of the Democratic Party" I am afraid includes more than Holy Joe Lieberman, or Ben Nelson, it also includes Anthony Weiner, Bernie Sanders, and Alan Grayson. I am surprised at you being so dismissive of the contributions of the progressives, simply because they are not winning everything.

[madfloridian]

135. Actually Joe and Ben have the power and they get just what they want.

Which is not at all progressive.

What happened this week is not about "compromise" or 60 votes. It is about the WH attacking those who spoke out.

Not a word to Ben or Joe....just the word from on high to make them happy.

[quaker bill]

181. I think

100 billion in healthcare subsidies for the poor actually is progressive. Like Anthony Weiner, personally, I am a single payer fan. He is for passage of the bill as well.

The point you don't address, because you well know it to be true, is that the "50 State Strategy" was and is all about recruiting candidates that could compete in traditionally Republican districts. Well, we have done it and even got them elected. Now we see the consequences.

All said, the consequences are acceptable given the alternative where Republicans run things and the system is simply allowed to fail to avoid anything like a government solution. You know as well as I that if the Republicans held control of either house, nothing would have gotten done at all, on healthcare, stimulus, environment, pay discrimination, absolutely nothing on pretty much anything.

You are correct, they cut deals to get the 60 votes. Nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing should be a surprise here. It is all part of cobbling together a governing majority using the strategy Dean designed. It came together a bit more quickly than anticipated, so it is still a tad rough around the edges. That is about it.

[madfloridian]

189. No. You are wrong.

It was not Dean who handpicked the primary candidates pushing progressives out and conservative and/or Republicans in to run instead. It was Rahm and Schumer, and it is still going on.

Dean at the DNC did NOT allow anyone there to meddle in primaries. That is one of the things Rahm wanted and didn't get....more money from Dean to screw progressive candidates.

That is a weak and flawed argument.

Now that the 18 state handpicked strategy rules the day...you won't have that to gripe about next time.

The bill will go through. Everyone will applaud. Then the unemployed will go ugh, how will I pay for this mandate?

The bill will go through especially now that Dean spoke out. They will once again have to prove he has no power, and not only will all the progressives vote for it...they will slam Dean when they do it....because they have been having some arm twisting.

I mean all of sudden this week the bill is sacred and wonderful to them? Wake up.

[tomm2thumbs]

125. it's the weakest link theory, and our weakest links are gummy worms...

the salty kind, with no color or flavor, covered in dog hair, stuck to your shoe, with a large toe nail caught in them


(I'm sorry, did I go too far..)

[Blasphemer]

126. It was pretty clear where things were going this time last year but hope springs eternal nt

[Festivito]

127. We won't see a poll on Dean approval.

Not until the media can run a few pot shots at him while keeping his message of Public Options hidden.

[DisgustedInMN]

128. Not too "politically savvy" myself, but...

...but I have to agree with everything you've said. I guess we should seen it coming when Obama sent the real Progressives from his campaign to posts in Outer Mongolia and packed that WH staff with a bunch of Bill Clinton corporate retreads. We have been "pwned." Trouble is, now where do we turn?

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

129. Will we be surprised to wake up and see ...

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, INC. ?

Think it can't happen?

Read "It Can't Happen Here" by Sinclair Lewis.

[1776Forever]

130. I am so disappointed - How can we have hope - When if ever will we see real change?

For those that do not think this was a planned insurance company bonanza I saw it at first when Baucus was named head of the policy "change" and wrote to Ed Schultz about him being in the pocket of the pharmacy/insurance companies. It is obvious no one in the White House Admin was ever going to really fight for the people. It is a very sad day.

SENATOR (D - MT)
Max Baucus

http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/summary.php?cid=N00004643

Top 5 Contributors, 2005-2010, Campaign CmteContributor Total Indivs PACs

Schering-Plough Corp $76,200 $64,200 $12,000
Goldman Sachs $48,900 $48,900 $0
KKR & Co $47,000 $47,000 $0
American International Group $46,750 $37,000 $9,750
Aetna Inc $45,250 $35,250 $10,000

Top 5 Industries, 2005-2010, Campaign CmteIndustry Total Indivs PACs

Securities & Investment $855,069 $707,069 $148,000
Lawyers/Law Firms $685,954 $466,512 $219,442
Insurance $553,275 $254,725 $298,550
Health Professionals $519,741 $129,241 $390,500
Pharmaceuticals/Health Products $513,613 $208,264 $305,349

[defendandprotect]

133. And so now new groups face the betrayal that has been with us so long . . .

people have to realize that it's been this way from the beginning --

From the first compromises with capitalism/slavery --

And that one of patriarchy's main tools has always been religion --

but it is, as always, fakery.

And we need more people to awaken to the reality that much of the right wing

Fundi movement here in America is fakery -- just as much as their FreedomWorks "teabaggers."

Just as much as our corporate-press, heavily penetrated by CIA.

But keep this sharply in mind -- the only way the right wing can rise is by political violence --

assassinations, lies, deception -- fake movements.

For our part -- the opposition -- the music stopped long ago --

And it was purposefully stopped -- just as rising leaders have been stopped.

They don't wait any longer for leaders to become true opposition to them --

Americans have to wake up to the reality that capitalism itself is conspiracy.

That the Establishment is conspiracy.

And this never has been nor ever will be "conspiracy-free America" . . .



Great post --

except I would say that this current surge of the right certainly began at least with the

1963 coup on JFK . . . which was in fact a coup on our people's government.

At least there -- it seems many deaths prior to JFK could be questioned.

I'd also encourage DU'ers to get back to the stolen elections --

IMO, I think we can question Repug wins back to Nixon/Humphrey.

People are busy in their daily lives, with their families, with their jobs --

and rely on a "free press" to keep them informed. That is long, long gone if it ever existed.

Yet we should have had people questioning not only the 2000 election, but what events created

the possibility for it to be played and pulled off the way it was.

I think everyone here understands the threat of the individual computers --

I don't think that everyone here understands the threat of the LARGE computers used by

our corporate-press which began to come in during the mid-1960's. Coincidentaly, just about

the time America was passing The Voting Rights Act.

Prior to the large computers, networks could only report actual vote totals.

The large computers, however, gave them new powers of PREDICTING elections -- and CALLING

elections -- including CALLING states for candidates -- and eventually CALLING the overall

win for a preidential candidate.

When we begin to reflect on those unintentional powers assumed by our corporate-press,

we begin to see how the power to CALL elections/states was reversed into the power to

RECALL an election --

John Ellis/Fox news did just that in 2000 -- RECALLING the state of Florida from Gore and

then CALLING it for Bush.

This is NOT the kind of power that any corporate-news organization should have acquired or

should continue to hold!!


I trust that this new awakening of voters to the reality of CORPORATISM/FASCISM -- which has

been being put in place for more than 40 years -- will not be wasted!!!


It's a tough way to begin the New Year -- but it's still better than delusion --

[Dr Fate]

149. K & R n/t

n/t

[madfloridian]

150. Wow look at the posts popping up lecturing progressives. Amazing.

[Jamastiene]

188. I cannot believe how many people on DU are

complaining about liberals, the left, & progressives when this is a progressive site founded FOR progressives.

Who We Are

Who is Welcome on Democratic Underground, and Who is Not

Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives. Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

About Democratic Underground, LLC

Democratic Underground (DU) was founded on Inauguration Day, January 20, 2001, to protest the illegitimate presidency of George W. Bush and to provide a resource for the exchange and dissemination of liberal and progressive ideas. Since then, DU has become one of the premier left-wing websites on the Internet, publishing original content six days a week, and hosting one of the Web's most active left-wing discussion boards.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/about.html

[RetroLounge]

152. K&R

RL

[mother earth]

159. Absolutely.

K & R,

[man4allcats]

161. Thank you. Well said, and sadly enough,

as true as it gets.

[gtar100]

162. At least the DLC is not stupid enough to call themselves 'Republicans"

But in practice, they may as well be.

[emilyg]

163. k/r

[pleah]

164. Take a look at this.

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.google.com%252Ffinance%253Fchdnp%253D1%2526chdet%253D1261244891319%2526chddm%253D8211%2526cmpto%253DNYSE%253AAET%253BNYSE%253ACI%253BNYSE%253AHUM%253BNYSE%253AMOH%2526cmptdms%253D0%253B0%253B0%253B0%2526q%253D%252520NYSE%253AAET%252C%252520CI%252CHUM%252C%252520MOH%252C%252520%2526ntsp%253D0&h=0368b7da625fc5b5cb57ba46dc50cb8a&ref=nf

[madfloridian]

165. Can't read it, not a member.

Can you clarify?

[pleah]

166. stocks going way up on hmo's, insurance etc. Will try to get a better link.

[madfloridian]

169. Thanks. Got it.

:hi:

[ChiciB1]

171. And That's WHY Dylan Ratigan Was So HARSH To Debbie Wasserman Schultz

yesterday! She was shilling and he got fed up and shut her down. Should he have done so in the way he did, maybe not! But then again, she was there to push the prefabricated "talking points" and he didn't want to hear the same old crap! We want our MSM to fight back and he was doing it. When "we" see it we say, Naughty Man, but for me... whatever it takes!

They've been shutting us down for way too long, and IF we have to SCREAM to be heard, and some feelings get hurt... well it's just too bad! Poor babies who can't take it, run and scream about how badly they got treated! What about us? I want to SCREAM about how WE are being treated!

[pleah]

174. I like DWS, but I still would like to have seen it. n/t

[pleah]

167. see if this link works.

http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdet=1261248136078&chddm=1173.0000000000002&cmpto=NYSE:AET;NYSE:CI;NYSE:HUM;NYSE:MOH&cmptdms=0;0;0;0&q= NYSE:AET, CI,HUM, MOH, &ntsp=0
It isn't putting up the right pic. I don't know how to fix this problem.

[mirrera]

172. I posted my protest in the Video Forum. This looks like a better place.

We have to show them our anger in the only way they understand. I now have a U next to my name on my voters registration. That DOES NOT MEAN I WILL VOTE FOR AN ASSHOLE LIKE PALIN! I can vote for whoever I want. It just means they can't predict or know for sure. It is MY statistic and I am taking it back.

My Video: Goodbye Democrats I am not your Bi-tchhhh explains it better.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=415134&mesg_id=415134

[Le Taz Hot]

195. And I'm really sorry it got eliminated.

I thought it was superb.

[TransitJohn]

173. The consensus reply from DU to your post seems to be agreement.

The Democratic Party is virtually indistinguishable from the GOP, they are both primarily concerned with representing the corporate interestes. So I have to ask, why the continuing vitriol towards Ralph Nader from these same posters? :shrug:

[Tailormyst]

177. You are one of my favorite posters on this site.

[BrklynLiberal]

183. I agree. madfloridian's post are always worth reading, and thinking about.

[Pooka Fey]

179. huge KnR

[Goldstein1984]

180. That's fine

it also allows the people to be ideologically free from the party.

The Democrats can't elect anyone without the progressive vote.

Once they lose freethinkers, they are left only with sheople.

[BrklynLiberal]

182. Horrifying...just horrifying. The party above all else....

I cannot believe that the seeping, creeping, thought is going thru my head.."OMIGAWD!" They were right!!
The difference between the repukes and "Democrats" is minimal!!!

The DLC is not significantly any different than the repukes.

Liberals and Progressives must differentiate ourselves from those that are trying to retain the label of "Democrats"...
Just as this "Republican" party is no longer the party of Lincoln or even Eisenhower, this "Democratic" party is not the party of FDR, LBJ, JFK or even the late Sen Edward M Kennedy.

[bajamary]

184. Corporate Vichy Democrats

These Corporate Democrats have been in the pocket of big Wall Street and Big Pharma all along.

Obama has shown his true color: green as in money not as in environment.

I also was horribly fooled by Obama as I worked many months, like so many others, to get him elected.

I'm from Chicago and my old Congressperson was Rahm Emmanuel. So when I heard that Obama hired him as his Chief of Staff, a chill went through my body.

With this awful health care bill that gives us no public option yet it gives Big Insurance and Phama billions more in profits, I now have a horrible chill going through my soul.

I, for one, will not get fooled again by Mr. Obama. No votes, no money and no good karma to him and his gang of Vichy Democrats.

[madfloridian]

196. Still true. Going even further beyond just health care.

Making those who question out to be pariahs.

Latest talking point around here....those who question the health care bill don't care about the poor.