Grayson wants to send critic to jail for five years

[rayofreason]

Source: Orlando Sentinal

WASHINGTON — Not everyone thinks imitation is the best form of flattery.

In fact, U.S. Rep. Alan Grayson of Orlando took such offense at a parody website aimed at unseating him that the freshman Democrat has asked that U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder investigate the Lake County activist who started the anti-Grayson website “mycongressmanisnuts.com.”

Specifically, Grayson accuses Republican activist Angie Langley of lying to federal elections. His four-page complaint highlights the fact that the Clermont resident lives outside his district, but that Langley still uses the term “my” in “mycongressmanisnuts.com.”

“Ms. Langley has deliberately masqueraded as a constituent of mine, in order to try to create the false appearance that she speaks for constituents who don’t support me,” writes Grayson. “ has chosen a name for her committee that is utterly tasteless and juvenile.”

Read more: http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_politics/2009/12/grayson-wants-to-send-critic-to-jail-for-five-years.html

---

There is more on

http://www.politico.com/blogs/scorecard/1209/Grayson_wants_to_imprison_critic.html?showall

Love him or hate him, his concept of "freedom of speech" in this case is similar to that of a tin-pot dictator.

[Jim Sagle]

1. Actually it isn't. It's not the criticism, it's the deception.

[dmr]

63. She's the head of the Lake County Republican party to boot

Here's his complaint:
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_politics/files/2009/12/Grayson-Holder-Complaint-121609-0013.pdf

I think he has valid points. It's not just deception on the website, but she's gone on TV, and interviewed by newspapers.

I lived in Lake County for about a year. I wouldn't go back there again for anything. Nope, and Lake's not the worse there is in Florida, either.

I worked with Lake's State Rep (his non-gov't job), a Republican, who was the most vile man to work alongside - when he showed up for work. Just thinking of him gives me the ills of lice and worms. He was an old man then, so he's probably dead now.

[gateley]

2. Disappointing.

I'm weary of being disappointed by politicians I hold in high regard. :(

[robcon]

3. Maybe his ego is out of control

This is dreadful egotistical posturing.

In addition he's given that website some publicity.

[johnfunk]

14. I don't believe Grayson is posturing. The Web site creator has lied to federal officials

Grayson is fully justified IMNSHO.

[cali]

4. I've always thought there was something "off" about him. n/t

[sabrina 1]

7. There's nothing 'off' about calling a liar a liar!

Good for him, and I hope some of the spineless Democrats in Congress start taking some lessons from him.

[rayofreason]

10. Calling a liar a liar is fine...

....using the power of the state to shut down a critical website and imprison the author is not, unless you prefer Soviet-style "Free Speech."

[quakerboy]

18. I missed the part of the article

where it said anyone had been taken to prison, and also the part where it said the website had been shut down. Can you point me to those?


I did read the part where a congressman known for saying provocative things made a provocative claim that seems assured to bring attention to a potentially illegal act on the part of a Republican fundraiser. And I read the part where the congressman asked the AG to investigate. I feel safe in assuming that the justice department, if it chooses to investigate, would not be able to throw the Republican fundraiser in jail, nor squash her website, without taking it to a court and proving her guilty of some wrongdoing. Or did I miss something?

[JVS]

26. If the law allows him to, more power to him

[trumad]

77. Well Cali...

There are many DU'ers who have felt the same about you.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

83. +100

[midnight]

5. Free speech or Deceptive speech? I'm not an attorney but this sounds like defamation of character?

[rayofreason]

8. I don't think you can defame a congressman.

Maybe we should remove Mark Twain books from the library for lines like "We have the best congress that money can buy."

I think that Grayson is quite entertaining, but when you get members of Congress demanding that the Attorney General imprison someone for creating a website that is "crude and tasteless" then you have got a big problem with a politician who has some pretty dictatorial leanings. Just think what would happen if Perez Hilton turned his unsavory gaze to Capitol Hill!

[Hassin Bin Sober]

38. Did you read his complaint?

You seem to be focusing on the "crude and tasteless" piece when the real problem she is alleged to have filed fraudulent FEC forms.

If Perez Hilton wants to raise funds - let him, by all means. But the minute he does he, like the nice lady in the OP, will be subject to federal election law.

[sabrina 1]

6. I don't think free speech as defined by the Founding

Fathers included Rove-like tactics, such as are being employed by this rightwing operative.

For far too long, the 'left' ignored the 24/7 lying by Fox and Rightwing talk radio, believing it was beneath them to 'bother with it'. We've seen the result of that neglect. Embedded in the culture right now is the 'fact' that 'liberals' are bad for the country, they are traitors, cowards etc. If the 'left' had come out swinging against these lies, we wouldn't see words like 'progressives' being used in an attempt to run from the word 'liberal'.

What Grayson is doing here is exactly what needs to be done with liars. They need to be exposed. She is free to speak her mind, she can disagree with his politics, but when she lies, she should expect to be exposed as a liar. Why eg, were Democrats so afraid to use the word 'liar' in relation to Bush/Cheney et al? Didn't we complain about that back then?

Bullies need to be confronted, which they have no been and this woman had no fear of lying as she, like the rest of the far rightwingnuts, have come to believe that 'liberals' are weak and you can kick them, lie about them and they won't fight back. Because that's how it's been.

Now, she met a Liberal who is proving her wrong. I hope she learns a lesson from it. Don't lie. That is now what 'free speech' means. It's what Rightwingers decided it means.

Go Grayson! Finally, a 'Liberal' who will not sit back and ingore the lies and deceptions of the right. I'm fully supportive of calling out liars. And is she in any position to complain? I don't think so. Let her apologize publicly and that should end the matter, then stick to facts from now on.

[rayofreason]

9. I don't think you understand free speech.

And your historical context could use improvement. Do you have any idea of the kind of invective that was used in politics in the late 18th and early 19th century? Our wildest insults look tame by comparison.

[NobleCynic]

12. True, political speech in the found father's time was rather... spirited

Rush Limbaugh level discourse was pretty much par

[AllentownJake]

17. They still close the bars in PA on election day during polling hours

The reason was election day was a day you got free drinks for votes once upon a time.

[AllentownJake]

15. Early elections were nothing but shit flinging and vote buying

[Danger Mouse]

19. Oh my god yes. I've read some of the stuff they said to each other back then.

MUCH MUCH worse than ANYTHING that is said today.

[clear eye]

65. Are you saying our opponents can use these worst tactics

but someone on our side can't call them liars, and report to the authorities when they use deception illegal under election laws? Huh?

[mike_c]

11. come on....

I agree with you about the need for liberals to stand up, but this is not a fight worth having. It makes Grayson look petty.

As for the substance of his charges, the offending web site is a WEB SITE, not a physical place. It is as much inside his district as it is without, regardless of where the site's author lives. Is DU irrelevant to us, or somehow less honest because it is not really underground-- I presume that neither the servers nor the admins live in caves.

The site Grayson is so tweaked about IS available to his constituents, isn't it? That would make it completely honest in the context of anyone who IS his constituent, would it not?

Liberals need to be forthright about things that matter. This is unseemly and does not reflect well on Grayson.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

28. She's raising money and skirting campaign donation limits by claiming ...

.... to be against more than one candidate.



THAT is the important piece of his complaint. He's not, as the article says, merely trying to silence a critic for insulting him. Grayson is hitting back at a bogus PAC/Republican Operative - you know, the way we all screamed Kerry should have done.


Free speech is great. Even lies are protected when you lie about a politician. But the game changes when you fraudulently fill out FEC forms and raise money.



I encourage everyone to READ THE LETTER to Holder.


http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_politics/files/2009/12/Grayson-Holder-Complaint-121609-0013.pdf



I will concede he probably made a tactical error by including the complaint about her "juvenile" attacks because the "liberal" media and the right wing Wurlitzer will focus in on that piece (as they already have) and the public will react negatively (as seen on DU)....Next thing you know, Grayson is the next Chavez.

[clear eye]

66. Because fund-raising is involved,

and Republican assumption that the law does not apply to them, this is most DEFINITELY a fight worth having. If this practice is not nipped in the bud, the next thing we will see is it becoming SOP for them as they go all over the country claiming to be "constituents" of everyone they want to defeat by raising money.

[cali]

16. hahahahahaha. your ignorance is showing. that you know fuck all

about the wild political speech of the period is a riot.

And his trying to shut her down legally is sickening.

[ldf]

57. and more power to him for trying to do so

every lie has to be met.

sitting back and doing nothing is why we are neck deep in rightwing lies, with people believing it.

[clear eye]

67. Would you prefer this being replicated all over the country as Republicans

find it makes an excellent template to raise money by deceiving the grassroots? Stopping this affects more than his own situation. Give it up. This attack is unworthy of you.

[sabrina 1]

72. I know a great deal about the speech at the time.

And I also know that the Founding Fathers, specifically people like Jefferson and Adams, both of whom suffered vile attacks on their characters, still did not waver from the original intent of the 1st Amendment. But where did they include in the actual law of the land, that lying was legal? The spirit of the 1st Amendment IS violated when it is misused.

You ARE free to lie. You are also free to walk under a moving train. But there are consequences. So much is excused using the word 'free'. Bush used it a lot also, almost making it an actual 'four letter word' in the minds of many.

We have civil laws that punish 'speech' that slanders or libels someone. So all speech is literally NOT free, at least financially as many fools have found out.

Grayson is free to take whatever legal action he wants, and he is one hell of a lawyer, who doesn't have a record of flaunting the law. She is apparently doing more than just calling names. Maybe you should read his letter. He is a fighter and it's great to see these rightwingnuts finally run into someone who won't put up with their childish nastiness.

See, I was able to disagree with you without once using the word 'fuck' ~ it really doesn't add strength to your argument, it's too over-used and lost its impact long ago, especially on the internets.

[rd_kent]

93. No, YOUR ignorance is showing that YOU know fuck all!

He wants her shut down for DECEPTION, not for here views. What so hard to understand about that?

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

13. The asshat who put up the website deserves it -for flat out lying

you can't lie and say you are a constitutent when you are not.

[apocalypsehow]

23. By that standard, there goes The Onion - and Jon Stewart, Steve Colbert, & SNL, for that matter...nt

[Hassin Bin Sober]

30. When those folks you mention start fund-raising and fraudulently filing FEC forms ..

.....you might have a point.

read the complaint:


http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_politics/files/2009/12/Grayson-Holder-Complaint-121609-0013.pdf

[apocalypsehow]

31. Oh, my point is spot-on - and it stands undisputed. Nice try, though. n/t.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

33. Do those folks raise money? Have they filed FEC forms? No. Your point doesn't mean shit.

Angie Langley is entitled to as much, if not more (due to the fact she isn't bound by any network rules), than the folks you mention. But when she starts lying on FEC forms she needs to be called on it.

[apocalypsehow]

37. You're changing the subject. That's not a very honest way to discuss things among adults. Return to

discussing this matter like an adult - quit posting about one matter in a topic while pretending I had posted *anything* about the same matter - and we can resume discussion.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

40. No problem. Just so you are straight on the issue of free speech versus FEC fund-raising laws.

[apocalypsehow]

41. I posted nothing about FEC fund-raising laws. N-O-T-H-I-N-G. Your serial dishonesty in implying so,

and that it has anything to do with "free speech," is not the silliest falsehood I've seen trotted out by the childish-minded today, but it is one of the most puzzling.

Some of you people seemingly live to pick fights and flamewar over phony figments of your own imaginations.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

43. You posted in a thread that is about EXACTLY THAT and made an analogy to entertainers.

This thread is about a complaint to the federal government about a FUND RAISER lying on FEC forms.

Sorry if I came on too strong but this isn't about free speech ala Comedy Central. It's about very specific election fund raising rules.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[clear eye]

69. My guess is that your adversary has just "ignored" you

since you more than earned it. Good-bye.

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

89. Correct. At this point it's better to let the MODs take out the trash.

[sabrina 1]

90. Are they raising funds for Republican candidates

using lies and deceptions to do so? Are they in violation of FEC rules or are they just entertainers? There IS a difference, one which this Republican chose to ignore, like so many before her. Now, someone has decided to give her a lesson on the law. And it's about time.

When Kerry chose not to fight the lies of the Swift Boat Veterans, and left it to the rest of us to fight the smears all over the internet, he essentially lost the election and helped set a precedent that smears from the right were acceptable, no matter how false they were.

We'll see what happens with Grayson, but the public has demonstrated over and over again that they admire a fighter, and we have seen so few of them. I would be willing to bet that he will the next election.

[clear eye]

68. Gee, did they raise campaign funds by falsifying where they live?

Must have missed that.

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WriteDown]

27. See post 24 to join the lawsuit. nt.

[quakerboy]

20. Or perhaps we as a country have become too timid

about asking for investigations of wrongdoing in our political and business dealings.

Or was there something in one of the articles that indicated this was more than a provocative request to draw attention to potential misdealings by a Republican fundraiser? I say we are better off nipping any potential Lee Atwaters in the bud. If they choose to investigate, and they find she did nothing wrong, will she go to jail? If they investigate and find that she did do illegal things, should she not be required to pay the consequences?

[Marr]

21. She's raising money to unseat him, saying she's a constituent when she isn't.

Let the site owner's political allies and employers argue her case.

[kestrel91316]

22. Good for him. I support his effort to force his critics to at least not lie.

[WriteDown]

24. Exactly! Who here will join my class action suit against myspace.com???

From what I can tell, they give you know physical space at all!!!!

[Hassin Bin Sober]

36. When MySpace starts raising funds and fraudulently filling out FEC forms, you might have a point.

Until then, MySpace doesn't fall under the umbrella of federal election laws and your analogy is childish - at best.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

44. LOL. You would rather have this discussion be about Jon Stewart and his lies.

I get it. You would rather this thread be about MY Space and their fraudulent advertising.


OK. LOL

:hi: :hi:

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

48. Hey, I was just pointing out your bogus analogy.

Sorry you got your panties in a snit.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[apocalypsehow]

50. Difficult to comprehend the mentality that wears itself out pretending it can't read.

Buy heyz, the Last Word War is simply too important to stop!

:eyes:

[WriteDown]

61. Looks like its now a "committee" so I doubt anything will come from this

Did anyone actually visit the site?

http://www.mycongressmanisnuts.com/

[Hassin Bin Sober]

81. I'm not sure what you mean by "now" it's a committee?

Was it NOT a committee when Grayson made the complaint? How does that change the validity of his complaint?

[JVS]

25. She shouldn't lie about her district

[Hassin Bin Sober]

34. She can lie about her district all she wants. She just can't do that and raise funds.

That's the point.



Sadly, DUers have already swallowed the tripe the media fed them and now, by gosh, it just "feels bad" and stuff.

[varelse]

29. I'll take "What is US Code: Title 18, 1001?" for $100,000

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00001001----000-.html

(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, whoever, in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly and willfully—
(1) falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact;
(2) makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation; or
(3) makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry;
shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years or, if the offense involves international or domestic terrorism (as defined in section 2331), imprisoned not more than 8 years, or both. If the matter relates to an offense under chapter 109A, 109B, 110, or 117, or section 1591, then the term of imprisonment imposed under this section shall be not more than 8 years.

And who is this Angie Langley person anyway?

[RedCloud]

35. Good points raised here.

[varelse]

92. Thank you

Doesn't look like they've caught fire in this thread though. People are apparently all too ready to side with fellow friends of the Constitution such as Freerepublic and Politico without first considering the source of the complaint.

[rucky]

51. You mean there's been a law against astroturfing the whole time?!

Well damn.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

54. Sure there has.

That's why the Swift Boat Vets had to make the spurious claim they were merely for "truth" and not defeating Kerry.

The only problem here is they tried it on a guy with big brass balls/ovaries who happens to be an attorney.

[WriteDown]

62. See post 61, nt

[varelse]

91. You wanted me to visit the smear site?

Well, I looked at it, and much as I expected, Angie's "track record" with political activism is not mentioned - at least not prominently. Was that your point?

[galileoreloaded]

32. Oh, hell yes. Gulag all those RW MF'rs. Re-education camps all around..

seriously WTF.

[JVS]

39. And here we see that "moderates" and "centrists" at DU would rather side with someone committing...

election fraud than a liberal voice like Grayson. Sad and pathetic that they hate a good liberal so much that they blame him for pointing out that someone is breaking the law.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

53. Sad. I think some people just read the headline and the Politico spin.

Like every other issue that garners these headlines, it's a little more nuanced - until you read the actual complaint.

I must admit I was a little taken back when I read the snip .... but then I read the complaint.

"Congressman Requests Investigation In To Republican Fund Raiser - Possible FEC Violations Alleged" ...

doesn't sound as sexy AND as useful as....


"Grayson wants to send critic to jail for five years"

[jgraz]

52. She's a Republican. Grayson hates Republicans. What's so hard to understand?

If she's not doing anything wrong, she has nothing to worry about. :D

[Hekate]

55. Ohfergodssake. DUers are the most fickle bunch I've ever known in my life. Last month you wanted...

... Grayson to be Prez instead of wimpy ole' Obama. Now he's a tin-pot dictator?

:argh:

Hekate

[Hassin Bin Sober]

56. LOL. So true.

[Juche]

58. Arresting someone for that is excessing

Suing them to change the name would be ok, but pushing for an arrest is pretty severe.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

59. You are assuming there ISN'T a suit planned.

That may or may not be true.

Everyone knows the lady isn't going to do time, but quoting the penalty in the statute is common when requesting an investigation.

By the way, this isn't the first time she has run afoul election law. At least one other time, she was staring down the business end of a $450,000 fine for her shenanigans.

[Meldread]

60. I'll say something that's unpopular.

I haven't posted anything about Representative Alan Grayson on DU. I know how a lot of people feel about him... but I take Grayson as seriously as I take a clown. In my eyes, he's nothing but an egotistical fame seeker. He saw what "You Lie!" got whats-his-face Republican from SC during the President's speech to the joint session, and then followed up with "You die!"

I don't know what Grayson really believes, but it seems to me that he attempts to be more and more outrageous. I don't take him seriously at all. Yet, I know many people here like him for the things he says... but to me it comes off as smarmy and manipulative. I don't even think he fully believes what he says; so it isn't like Republican's saying or doing outrageous things... which is the result of them being certifiable nutjobs. Grayson just appears like an opportunist.

[clear eye]

70. We go by his stances and votes.

They support his words. You can say what you want about him, but I doubt people care when they can make up their minds themselves.

[Meldread]

73. I don't doubt that he's a progressive.

That's not what I meant. When I say I have trouble "believing" or "trusting" him it's more along the lines of this: I think he's saying and doing things to get attention, money and support from people. I think he realizes that by tossing out lots of red meat he'll be rewarded handsomely. And as a result, if there were no rewards or benefits involved, he wouldn't say and do some of the things he does... in essence, he's putting on a show.

[clear eye]

78. I wish more Dems would put on that type of show.

Taking some of the positions he has is dangerous to one's campaign coffers and reputation. In the political world, it takes courage.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

86. The other side calls us grandma killers, baby killers, commies, socialists ...

.....marxists, Stalinist and jihadists.

But Grayson is "putting on a show" when he calls it like it is.

[Angry Dragon]

64. If he feels that this is a lie

then why does he not then have people in congress arrested and put in jail for lying about what is in the bills when they come up for debate?? I think this is a greater lie than what is on that website.

People on the news and in congress call others Hitler, communists and other lies. Arrest them??

[clear eye]

71. And all it takes is a Politico smear against him for you to push him under a bus.

You sure do make it easy for them.

[cali]

74. I've never been caught up in the Grayson swooning

I think he's a clown. A showboater, a loose cannon. And he's reflexively pro-Israel in the worst kind of way.

[clear eye]

76. So, friend, who are the "good" Jewish elected officials in your opinion? n/t

[cali]

79. wtf? there are lots of non-jewish members of Congress who

have the same position on Israel as Grayson. I disagree with them as well. And I am not anti-Israel in the slightest just because I oppose what the Israelis did and are doing in Gaza and the WB.

[tomm2thumbs]

75. if you can't stand the heat, at least don't sweat when you're in the kitchen - stoopid move Grayson

What is it they say about arguing downwards? You give power to those beneath you?

Stoopid move.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

80. Taking on an illegal PAC is beneath him?

Taking on a republican operative running a fraudulent PAC is beneath him?


edit: to change "against" to "beneath" .... no coffee yet


By the way, FOX was already hyping the website before he complained. So they already had the Wurlitzer revved up.

[tomm2thumbs]

87. I'm just saying he could have had one of his people write the letter - it is beneath him for me

it would be the equivalent of Obama writing a letter in response to an Orly Taitz charade

[Hassin Bin Sober]

88. I get where you are coming from.

I "get" that there is a perception problem ... especially since the media and Politico seem intent on spinning it and some pablum pukers up thread are helping make the case for the repigs.

Anyway, there may have been some legal reason for the letter coming from the "injured party"

:)

[ima_sinnic]

85. the posters here falling for this distortion are either

(a) jumping to conclusions not based on the facts or (b) more of the same astroturfers and trolls happy to see propaganda and manipulation used against one of few truly progressive congresspeople.