This is so wierd. Democratic party is splitting just like the GOP did.

[Kablooie]

First the GOP split between the conservatives and the ultra-conservatives.
the ultras took the reins of power and the conservatives simply sit and follow orders.

Now Democrats are splitting between the conservatives and the liberals and the conservatives are taking the reins while the liberals sit around and, well, my bet is, take orders.

I remember when it was a respected position to have liberal values. Liberals were the people who were changing the world for the better. Talk radio and the culture in general was predominantly liberal.

The conservative movement gained steam during Clinton's era and completely took over when Bush was president.

And it looks like they will remain in power now, no matter which party controls the government.

Until young liberals become active enough to actually do something like they did in the 60's, it is not going to change. That is apparent now.

But I don't feel any force behind today's frustration. It seems unfocused and futile.

A change might happen sometime but it looks like it will be years, maybe even decades before someone actually stands up and says enough.

[Goldstein1984]

1. Is the Democratic Party spitting, or is the party failing to meet the

needs of a large portion of its members?

I see that same frustration and unfocused anger.

I was young but already active in the 60s. Before I was a teenager I went with my cousin to Vietnam War protests.

You're right--the passion of the 60s isn't there. I wonder if that is by design--more entertainment to keep people pacified; incredible political bipolarity to keep us fighting with each other instead of the real enemy--corporatism.

[old mark]

2. Democrats in congress bought into the republican revolution - they became the

"me, too" party the republican majority, and the whole mess shifted very greatly to the right. What used to be liberal is now considered socialist, what used to be radical is now unheard of. The party went along with this because they had no one with any real ideas or courage and they just wanted to get reelected. These are the very same committee chairs and party big shots who are now jerking us around while stuffing their pockets with cash from the insurers.

Also, the left has virtually NO media - this goes from Rush to Fox to the dumb and dumber news programming on the MSM.

We have no central voice, no strong support in congress and little anywhere else, certainly not in the White House.

We also have a lousy voting record and really do not present much of a threat to the pols - we will just continue to bicker, not find any new liberal candidates.
Rec.
mark

[tomm2thumbs]

3. better that people vent and engage than turn around and leave quietly, never to return

this notion that everyone has to get along all the time or not express their outrage in a way that feels appropriate to them is interesting. Expressing yourself truthfully, respectfully (even if with strong commentary) and as close to the time when you feel those feelings, is a responsible thing to do. I believe Obama termed it 'keeping his feet held to the fire'.

I think this party would be disappointing if we all nodded and agreed with the most generic of departures from expectations, not to mention dramatic shifts in legislative bills about to become law.

I love this Party. We stay in the tent and argue points, challenge assertions and yell, scream, rant and argue about what we feel is important to us and our party. It is folks that accept the poison koolaid without a fight that I worry about. I think they are currently serving Beck-flavor over in the GOP tent - thank god it goes down like vinegar to true Democrats!

Go team!

[elocs]

4. The irony is that just when the GOP as a party is on the ropes

Democrats get overconfident in the demise of the Republicans and then they do not stick together and fight to put the GOP away as a real minority party, but instead begin to fight with each other and in spite of controlling the White House and good majorities in both houses they appear inept when it comes to fulfilling their goals.

GOP politicians at heart respect strength and look upon those who are willing to compromise on many of their supposedly strong stances as being weak. The Republican rank and file respect those politicians that they view as being honest and straight talking and having the courage of their convictions. Today's Democrats seem to be failing in standing together for what they believe and having the courage of their convictions.

Here in Wisconsin I know of die hard Republicans for whom the only Democrat they used to cast a vote was Senator Bill Proxmire because they respected his honesty and they trusted him. I see the same thing now with Senator Russ Feingold.

Democrats need to find a line in the sand, one which they will not cross and refuse to compromise, to beg for support to get even a little bit of what they originally claimed was important to them. People tend to respect strength, resolve, and those who truly hold to the courage of their convictions.