American women are the price for Ben Nelson's vote...

[CaliforniaPeggy]

I hope we're worth it.

This is sickening.

:grr:

[Renew Deal]

1. Can someone tell me what happens if the amendment fails?

Does he still vote for the bill?

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. I'm not sure.

But my guess is he wouldn't.

[Renew Deal]

4. Because there's not enough support for the amendment

So I don't expect it to pass.

[Thickasabrick]

61. He said today (Nelson), that he would not. Also, Stupak is working

on something for the house so this is far from over.

[madokie]

3. Truly sickening

I just read about his price

We need election finance reform and until we get that we have no chance in hell of getting anything except a little token here and there. Our congresscritters of both strips are as corrupt as the mafia of the 20's and 30's except the critters actually can and do make the laws that make their criminality easier to pull off.

:grr: is right

[Xicano]

5. Was just watching that on CNN.

Yes this is sickening. Here's another quote Sen. Nelson just said: "I am against a public option."

[CaliforniaPeggy]

6. And he calls himself a Democrat?

I don't recognize his type of Democrat...

DINO maybe...

[madokie]

7. Bought and paided for is what I call his kind

[still_one]

10. The question is could a progressive Democrat even win in Nebraska or the other blue dog states?

If the answer is no, then it won't matter until that changes

The problem is that republicans because the party of exclusion, essentially allowing only those that tow the party line in

while Democrats have an open tent, allowing all people, including those who don't agree with the Democratic platform

There was no way we could have won 2008 without it, and of course without the help of the bush disaster

How do we turn those "purple" states around?

Until the people in those states have had enough of republican policies, the best we can hope for is change on a local, and maybe state level

[whathehell]

16. Yes, but as Rep. Anthony Wiener pointed out..

Had the president gone to Nebraska, gone to these other "conservative states" with Democratic senators...He could have Made the Case...He could have effin' TRIED...This whole process has reaked of lack of presidential leadership from the gitgo.

I hate to say it, but what Russ Feingold said may be true:..I'm paraphrasing slightly..Maybe the president didn't object too much "because this is the bill the president has wanted all along"

[still_one]

17. I don't disagree that Obama should have done that, but I am skeptical that narrow-minded views

in some of those states just don't change that quickly

[whathehell]

40. You could be right. Still, I think he should have made more of an effort.

[jillan]

59. +1

No leadership at all. He just took whatever was handed to him.

[BolivarianHero]

51. Why do we need Democrats who stand for nothing in those states?

Seems kind of worthless to me.

[CreekDog]

53. he's not the type to filibuster

unless it's for the chance to screw women, children or the poor.

i don't know what party it puts him in. i don't even know why his family would want to be around him, but hey... :shrug:

if the deal is worse because of that jerk, i think that's on him.

[iamjoy]

8. Here's How I See It

I think the fact that we have to make all these concessions to Conservative Democrats if awful.

However, let's look at a woman of a reproductive age, let's say she's working full time, but doesn't have health insurance. Right now, she may not be able to afford to go to the doctor and can't get a prescription for the pill - even if she got the script, she'd have to pay full price to have it filled. If she gets pregnant, her pre-natal care isn't covered (it may be if she agrees to give up the baby for adoption).

If we get universal health care, even with this atrocious amendment, this woman can go to the doctor. She can get a prescription for the pill. If she gets pregnant, her pre-natal care is covered. You have a more women needing healthcare than women needing "elective" abortions.

She's still in a better position.

the idea makes me furious, but the practical side of it...

[Neecy]

28. How is she in a better position?

What is she wanted an abortion rather than pre-natal care? IF she agrees to give up the baby for adoption? Why is she being forced to carry to term?

And Planned Parenthood has always been a resource for contraception. We don't need this bill for that.

[iamjoy]

29. Because Now She Has Nothing

If she doesn't have insurance and doesn't have money now, she would have to carry the baby to term or pay for the abortion herself. As for Planned Parenthood, that's great if she lives near a clinic. With universal health care and government subsidies, she can get the care she needs regardless of her proximity to a PP clinic.

[Neecy]

30. So, she buys insurance...

Because she's forced to by law, and the same situation happens - she's pregnant. And she's even less likely now to be able to afford an abortion because a percentage of her income is paying for her mandated insurance. It's really forcing women in red states to carry to term. Dandy that the brood mare gets pre-natal care, though, right?

[iamjoy]

33. I'm Trying To Make Lemonade

I realize it's too sour because there isn't enough sugar for all the lemons.

[CreekDog]

55. go to the doctor with insurance and go to the doctor without and let me know which is better

that's the difference and that's what the option is now.

[niyad]

69. why are you even mentioning universal health care? the crap being discussed in congress bears NO

relation to universal health care (which, by the way, does NOT discriminate against women)

nice try, but "universal health care, even with this amendment" what in the HELL are you on about?

[jgraz]

9. How's that "big tent" working out for us?

We'll continue to have these problems until we kick these assholes out of the caucus. It's embarrassing to support such a pathetically weak party.

[still_one]

13. The question is, are those states in enough pain to vote in progressives, or are they

inane enough to continue to vote against their own interests?

[jgraz]

20. It really has nothing to do with progressive vs conservative

It has to do with strong vs weak. There is really nothing more unAmerican than being pathetically weak.

Progressive Democrats like Russ Feingold get a lot of right-wing support simply because they're viewed as hard-asses. Weak Democrats will *never* get that kind of loyalty.

However, it's beginning to look like the real problem is not that the Democrats can't get anything done because they're weak, but rather that the Democrats are using weakness as an excuse for never getting anything done. The real problem, as always, is the corporate money pulling the strings.

[still_one]

23. That is a very interesting thesis. I need to consider that. Thanks /nt

[pscot]

50. Feingold is a hardass?

How does this quality manifest itself? I can't recall any Feingold philibusers while the decider was in power. Nor have I seen any fiery, Feingold orations on the senate foor. Tell me more.

[jgraz]

63. Feingold sticks to his principles

The people in Wisconsin respect that. Even my right-wing relatives vote for him.

[pscot]

66. Feingold is a decent guy

and I don't mean to diminish him at all. But he's not the sort who strikes fear in the hearts of Republicons. Few Democrats are, sadly. Franken shows some promise, if he can learn to control it. He's a bit of a hothead, which is ok, if it doesn't affect your game.

[jgraz]

68. All good points, but in Wisconsin he's viewed as a strong progressive

And, compared to the rest of the weak-ass Democrats, he is.

[Renew Deal]

26. Our big tent is working out better than the small tent approach the republicans have taken

We'll continue to have these problems until we kick these assholes out of the caucus so we can get down to a tiny minority like the republicans. :shrug:

[jgraz]

27. Check back after the 2010 elections.

Then tell me how well that big tent worked.

[liberalmuse]

11. Meh. We're always the price. Everywhere.

Women are expendable in the patriarchal scheme of things.

[Blasphemer]

12. The poor, the working poor, women, minorities and gays ALWAYS get the shaft. Always.. nt

[still_one]

14. The only way that would change is if they unite into a political force. Until that happens

don't expect much

[Blasphemer]

19. That political force is supposed to be the Democratic party isn't it? nt

[still_one]

22. Well since demographically speaking, that political force represents more population than

the rest, they sure don't seem to be united to get enough progressives elected in purple and red states

Maybe that will change, but it is a slow process

[niyad]

70. time to resurrect the national women's party

[jgraz]

21. EVERYONE gets the shaft. It's the Democratic way.

When will we realize that this party has no interest in support the people who vote for them?

[DainBramaged]

15. His vote isn't worth it.........

Fucking man pig, he needs to fall into a crevice of hell.

[AzDar]

18. Nice of them to barter OUR rights away in order to give more bags o' cash

to Big Phrma and the Insurance Rackets, isn't it?

:puke:

[ensho]

24. kick

nt

[piratefish08]

25. There are fewer cheerleaders every day for this POS bill.

Kill it.

[ncteechur]

31. here we go again. Stupak 2.0

[David Zephyr]

32. K&R.

OP of few words. Speaks volumes!

[Odin2005]

34. KILL THE BILL!

[Lionel Mandrake]

35. Ben Nelson is an atypical Methodist.

Following is an excerpt from a useful "pro-life" website:

The United Methodist Church began in the early 1970s to view abortion as a "choice". The United Methodist position in favor of abortion has been so strong that two of its institutions helped organize and affiliate with the Religious Coalition for Abortion Rights. For many years RCAR used office space in the United Methodist Building which is located across the street from the U.S. Supreme Court. In both 1996 and 1997 the United Methodist Church publicly supported President Clinton’s veto of the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act. While the 1996 United Methodist Church’s Book of Discipline still maintains a strong pro-abortion position, it now includes wording recognizing the "sanctity of unborn human life." It further states, "We cannot affirm abortion as an acceptable means of birth control and we unconditionally reject it as a means of gender selection."

http://www.pregnantpause.org/people/wherchur.htm

By the way, I think abortions are good for the planet and should be provided free on demand, with no requirement that would delay the procedure. But the website above is reasonably objective (believe it or not); it describes the positions of several Christian churches on abortion.

[myrna minx]

36. I'm so furious. n/t

[efhmc]

37. We are always expendable. One of the first items cut was paying

for birth control and it has been hack down the women and their care ever since.

[branders seine]

38. And Stupak's in the House

[EFerrari]

39. I can't even post what I think.

:grr:

[Missy Vixen]

44. SO, question

Are the women of DU permitted to state that contributing and/or working on the campaigns of those who actively choose to sell out women's reproductive rights is out of the question, even if they're Democrats?

:mad:

[EFerrari]

45. Missy Vixen, that was my self-censorship.

DU women are free to criticize policy afaik.

And now that my mouth/keyboard is under control, I find this compromise on the backs of low income women obscene. OBSCENE.

[Missy Vixen]

46. You GO, girl

"Obscene" is the cleanest word I can come up with for it as well.

:eyes:

[branders seine]

41. My dear CaliforniaPeggy,

I share your disgust. It is mind boggling that anyone could call themselves a Democrat and go along with this right-wing nonsense.

[Cleita]

42. We might as well throw a burka over ourselves and go barefoot.

It's like we are nothing more than domestic slaves to be bought and sold in the Congressional marketplace.

[suffragette]

43. It's infuriating

:grr:

[EFerrari]

47. Of all demos, WE are the base.

WTF are these people thinking?

[CaliforniaPeggy]

48. I don't believe they give a damn.

They have their corporate sponsors, and those fund them.

We are shit out of luck.

No money=no power

[EFerrari]

49. If they can do this to us and to our daughters and to our granddaughters today

we must have no power whatsoever. It's a flat out admission of our irrelevance.

You are right, my dear Peggy.

[suffragette]

60. I think they take our support for granted

They'll throw us our sop to Cerberus at some later point and expect our barking to die down.
They doubt we'll become angry enough to bite.

[bigwillq]

52. K and R.

:mad: :(

[RevCheesehead]

54. Damn, Peggy....

You're on fire!! You go, girl!!! :applause:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

58. My dear RevCheesehead!

I woke up early today, and saw the stories about Nelson.

The thought that I made this thread upon burst into my brain and the rest is history...

Even though the premise is simple, well...the consequences and reactions are NOT.

Thanks, sweetie...

:hug:

[Vidar]

56. I hope most women realize this & turn on Obama.

[Nikki Stone1]

57. K & R!

!

[chill_wind]

62. K & R.

[donheld]

64. Yes it is sickening

It should sicken Men as well as Women alike. I will NOT blindly follow.

[leftstreet]

65. K&R

[Horse with no Name]

67. Chattel. Some things never change.

The only "worth" we have to him and those like him is the market value of trading away OUR rights to gain something that benefits them directly.