Gingrich had his brain replaced with excrement: advocates concealed weapons on campus

[Buzz Clik]

On ABC's "This Week", Newt just explained why he's totally irrelevant.

[rodeodance]

1. He said that a few days also I believe. Students packing guns!!

[bluerum]

2. Yeah. I'd feel safer knowing I was in classroom with a bunch of gang bangers. eom

[DesertRat]

3. I which that George S. would ask...

How would a campus full of students pointing weapons at each other when the police arrived have helped/prevented the tragedy?

[jody]

4. We should let the militia, specifically the unorganized militia, protect students. Sorry I forgot

most students are already members of the unorganized militia, see 10 USC 311.

§ 311. Militia: composition and classes
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are—

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

[tabasco]

28. Worked pretty good in the Wild West, didn't it?

All that unorganized militia really kept things peaceful and safe, didn't it?

[Irreverend IX]

36. The "Wild West" was a lot safer than most modern cities.

Unless you learned everything you know about the frontier from Western movies, that is. The most dangerous frontier towns averaged less than one homicide per year. The gunfight at the OK Corral is famous because it was a dramatic exception to the rule.

[Atman]

5. Easy for him to say...he can hide a clock under his man-boobs.

:hi:

.

[Cass]

6. This is a coordinated talking point. Hannity said this on his radio show the other day and

Malkin also advocated this in a column the other day.

[3waygeek]

7. Wonder if he felt that way back when

he was a college professor.

[Ilsa]

8. Overworked, Sleep-deprived 19 year olds packing heat?

Sleep deprivation affects judgment and we know that alot of college students go through periods of that around exams, etc.

I wouldn't want to be there around it.

Newt would say that until his least favorite student shows up with a gun in class.

[Buzz Clik]

10. hung over, testosterone poisoned, immature,

[jody]

12. And they certainly shouldn't be allowed to drive under those conditions.

:sarcasm:

[Ilsa]

13. LOL. My husband recalls a time after an exam where he sat

in his truck through three green lights with cars honking behind him because he was so tired and messed up after some advanced mathematics exam. Yeah, he probably should have taken the university bus that day.

[Retired AF Dem]

16. Sleep-deprived 19 year olds packing heat?

Irrelevant point. 19 yr olds can't legally carry pistols anyway. Every campus has retired cops and retired military Law Enforcement studying for new careers how bout them being armed if they posses a current CCL? I don't know if anybody has noticed or not but no guns at all sure isn't working.

[Buzz Clik]

19. ... and we've also noticed that the pro-gun lobby is offering NOTHING.

"The Second Amendment is the answer to everything."

Yeah. It's working so far.

[KG]

9. newtie been a shit-fer-brains his entire life.

[DBoon]

11. Newt understands nothing about academia

Any self-respecting university would restrict the right to hold conceal weapons to tenured faculty only. It would be a perq of the job just like nice offices and reserved parking.

I mean undergraduates are barely allowed to occupy space in any university. Grad students and un-tenured faculty are strictly a source of cheap labor. You wouldn't allow slaves to pack heat, would you?


:sarcasm:

FYI, I am not an academic, but I know enough of them....

[Buzz Clik]

14. Your ignorance of the system oozes from every pore.

But, I will not get in the way of a good rant. It cleanses the soul.

[LeftishBrit]

24. I am an academic, and there's a kernel of truth in what he says!

But I am not sure that academics should be armed, especially in these days of Research Assessment Exercise stresses and the rivalries that they spawn. You can imagine the scenes at seminars and conferences:

"I don't think your conclusions are valid - why didn't you use a larger control group?"

"My reply to the questioner is .....BANG!!!"

"I disagree with Theory X. I think it has been superseded by Theory Y."

"As a staunch supporter of Theory X....BANG!!!"


((This is all sarcasm, of course. Seriously, I would not want to have a gun, and feel a lot safer knowing that most people around me - whether in the university or elsewhere - don't have guns.)

[DBoon]

26. oh, come on!

The whole notion of packing guns on a college campus is so inherently ridiculous I cannot imagine anyone taking anything said on the subject seriously

[Buzz Clik]

31. You're absolutely correct. That post was so incredibly ridiculous, it had to be a joke.

[petronius]

15. Actually, I think only us tenure-track folk should be armed

Some of those tenured people are a little bit nuts. (I would allow them to have swords, however.) ;)

[cgrindley]

21. I would feel so much safer

if at least the campus security was armed.

[DBoon]

27. Would graduate students be allowed martial arts training?

before you can handle a firearm, you must defend yourself with your bare hands and feet?

[aikoaiko]

29. As a college professor, I wish I could carry a concealed firearm on campus.

I've met my state's requirements to carry concealed firearm, I've given up my fingerprints, I've had a in-depth background check, I've taken extra training, I practice, and I do carry most places I go -- except my job because I'm a law-abiding citizen.

[uppityperson]

17. I think they should extend it to high schools also.

I mean, there are high school shootings too, right? And any teen that can pass the gun test to buy one should be mature enough to handle it in chaotic situations, right? I mean, if they are trusted driving cars/huge killing machines, why not give them all guns to protect themselves?

Kindergartners, now I don't think that would work there because some places they are only in class 1/2 the day and it would be too expensive for parents to buy guns for only 3 hours of school time. Maybe in places where they go all day? Parents, make sure you get the "right" school products needed list this summer. Be prepared! Be safe!

[jumptheshadow]

34. Professors carrying concealed arms

Most of my professors could barely open a can of tomato soup. Do you really want them carrying guns?

[uppityperson]

38. sarcasm. If you meant to reply to me, my whole thing was sarcasm.

I thought the kindergartner line would make that obvious.

[C_U_L8R]

18. I never knew Newt was an anarchist

sounds like the repukes are advocating the wild west
where anyone who owns a gun has the right to use it.

yeah that's what we all need - a bunch of pistol packing freepers
who lack any sense of judgement or intelligence. Bah !

[cgrindley]

20. I advocate this too

It makes sense. It's a good idea.

[jgraz]

23. ..

[Buzz Clik]

32. Not to worry. That poster forgot the :sarcasm:

[piedmont]

22. Minimum age for CCW: 21. Enough with the ridiculous strawmen.

[Buzz Clik]

39. Well, now, that depends upon the state.

One of my son's friends is fully armed and has a conceald weapon permint. He got his permit (in Indiana) within weeks of turning 18. He was still in high school.

As of 2006, here are the states with minimum age of 18 for concealed weapons permits: Alabama, Delaware, Indiana, Maine, Montana, New Hampshire, North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming. Vermont has no minimum age. Anyone who can legally possess a firearm can carry one in Vermont.

[opihimoimoi]

25. The GOP and their simplistic answers....shit for brains is right

[eppur_se_muova]

30. Why would anyone do that? Excrement is valuable -- makes a good fertilizer.

Newt's brain, on the other hand, couldn't even be used to adulterate a batch of melamine.

[EFerrari]

33. Well, it's cheaper to issue a license that to actually provide health care. n/t

[Selatius]

35. I recommend CCW permit holders on the staff/faculty be allowed to bring firearms.

I think it would've meant a chance this gunman would've been taken out sooner rather than later. I still don't think students should be allowed to bring guns to campus even if they were old enough to get a CCW permit (21 years old). It's either that, or you put plenty more police officers packing weapons on campus.

[Buzz Clik]

41. I agree.

If you allow students to carry weapons if the have CCW permits (age 18 in IN), then you also need to check to make sure that those without permits are not carrying. We have had many incidents of shootings on our campus as it is; the last thing we need is to make firearms legal on campus.

[Irreverend IX]

37. If you think it's such a bad idea...

Please post some news stories about problems caused by allowing concealed carry by licensed individuals in other settings has been a problem. I think you'll have a hard time finding any, because studies by various states have shown that CCW license holders are more law-abiding even than police.

[Buzz Clik]

40. Sorry, but that isn't necessary.

There is no support for this concept. If you want it, the convincing falls on you.

[Irreverend IX]

42. In other words...

Your claim that CCW in schools will endanger students is completely baseless. You can't cite a single incident of "deadly crossfire" or the other boogeymen you evoke. I can cite real-life incidents to support my argument, though.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8J0MBOG2&show_article=1

http://www.davekopel.com/2A/OthWr/principal&gun.htm

http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=At+least+nine+shots+fired+in+Uptown+Tavern+shooting&articleId=3f434d17-3fe9-4c81-93c1-394cef76a80b

And that's just what I found after two minutes of searching. The fact is, CCW holders tend to be better-trained and have a lower arrest rate than police themselves. These people carry weapons in all sorts of environments and have not caused any increase in violence; quite the opposite, in fact (http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdgcon.html). I see no reason why allowing them to carry on campuses would have different results.

If you want to be taken seriously, then post some facts to support your case. Otherwise, your position is no different from libertarianism, communism and other feel-good philosophies that don't work in reality.

[Buzz Clik]

44. No, not at all. In other words, I don't have to prove anything.

The ridiculous notion that arming students is the answer will never be realized. If YOU want that, have fun convincing a resistant public and recalcitrant colleges who -- quite intelligently -- don't want firearms in their classrooms.

And, quite frankly, I have no interest in your little tales of heroism but to us courtesy of pro-gun websites.

[Irreverend IX]

46. The public is anything but recalcitrant...

As the map indicates, public support for CCW is growing. Guns are being purchased in greater numbers and more varieties now than ever before and far more people are carrying than in the past. Those who resist campus carry are on the losing side.

The VT incident shows the consequences of demanding total disarmament on campus. The situation certainly couldn't have been worse if the shooter had met with armed resistance; as things were it was about as bad as a mass shooting incident could possibly get. I myself had an encounter with an angry stalker on campus when I was in college. I was unarmed as mandated by law, so things could have ended badly for me if the aggressor had been plotting murder. Fortunately, he only wanted to swear and yell at me.

The downside of "gun-free zones" is obvious; they act as free-fire zones for criminals and killers. The advantage of gun-free zones has yet to be substantiated. Until it is, your bleating of "I don't have to prove anything" serves as nothing but an admission that you have no argument.

[Buzz Clik]

48. "The answer to gun violence is more gun violence."

Great.

Guns are being purchased in greater numbers and more varieties now than ever before and far more people are carrying than in the past.

Really? I guess that those who own guns are stocking up for the next great uprising, because personal ownership is down.

As for my "bleating", it's good enough to keep the status quo which is all I'm looking for. If you want raging gun battles on campuses at every sign of stress, you'll have to find an argument to support it. And, unfortunately for you, you'll have to convince people like me.

Ain't happening.

[beevul]

43. People already have

That pretty much invalidates your claim that theres no support for this concept. Replace the word "no" in the sentence with "growing" though, and it would be spot-on.


And beside that, this is America. Common theory of liberty holds that all things are allowed, except that which is prohibited. And people generally find it proper that those asking for the prohibiting of a thing or an action provide the justification for doing so.

Please post some news stories that show problems that allowing concealed carry has caused in other settings.

That or you could just admit you either wont back up your position with facts, or can't because you don't have the facts to do it with.

[Buzz Clik]

45. Have you been following this thread at all?

We're not talking about gun control or the right to carry concealed weapons anywhere but on college campuses.

That's a cool map, though. I'll bet you use it a lot in these arguments. Too bad it has no relevance here.

[beevul]

47. I have indeed...

I understand your context is college campuses. The map is solely used as proof that concealed carry has grown by leaps and bounds. It has. The point of proving that is to show that ample opportunity for the "wild west" and accidental shootings has existed for quite some time. Those things haven't happened. That being the case, there is NO justification for barring those that go through the proper background checks, and get the required training, from carrying concealed. Even on a campus. Even if its just the teachers. Thats my position, and I backed it with sound logical reason, and disproved the main arguments against it.


That being said, heres a shocker for you - I'd happily settle for an alternative. If someone in a position to by rule decide someplace is going to be "gun free" then they better damn well make sure its gun free don't ya think? Can we agree on that? And maybe...have some extra roving trained security on top of whatever that other measure or measures are?


You might consider that just because some of us are pro-gun, doesn't mean we wont support other alternative measures where gun free zones are concerned. Food for thought.

[Buzz Clik]

49. Wow. What a great alternative:

Gotta love it -- your only alternative to allowing anyone and everyone to pack guns is to have a bunch of UCLA-style pigs roaming the campus or installing metal detectors. No thanks. I don't need to increase security ten-fold to prevent incidents that occur once every 20 years at one of the thousands of campuses across this country.

The US death statistics through gun violence has saturated us. A rare and random event such at Va Tech is a far superior alternative to the absolute slow escalation of more frequent occurrences of deaths through guns simply because they're more available.

My solution to those of you who can't feel safe without ole Betsy hidden under your coat is to stay off of college campuses.

[beevul]

50. Well...

"Gotta love it -- your only alternative to allowing anyone and everyone to pack guns is to have a bunch of UCLA-style pigs roaming the campus or installing metal detectors. No thanks. I don't need to increase security ten-fold to prevent incidents that occur once every 20 years at one of the thousands of campuses across this country."


You mentioned metal detectors, not me. Its your context, that of discussing only campus areas, not mine. And I did say maybe some extra security. I don't see you adding anything at all in the area of suggestions, except complaining about guns and mischaracterizing anything and anyone that doesn't share your position.

In any case, the issue at the heart is pretty simple. If through color of rule or law an entity arbitrarily removes, reduces, or diminishes the ability of a citizen to defend his/her self, should that entity assume any burden of making up for the degree of removal, diminishment or reduction, and should that entity bear responsibility for failure to do so?

I would wager your answer would be no, based on the things you have said. When its looked at like this, answering no might not be quite so simple eh? I suggest you consider the implications of your answer, before you answer. Well...IF you answer.

[Buzz Clik]

51. No.

But, I won't argue against well-worn, unrelenting "from my cold, dead hands" reasons why we shouldn't be concerned about the staggering number of deaths from gun violence.

College campuses are one of the few havens from you people, and we like that. We're sick and tired of your agenda that gun possession is a wonderful thing -- everywhere, every weapon. You refuse to accept any restrictions on any weapon and refuse to accept any restrictions on where you can carry them.

Here's the bottom line: I'm on the faculty senate of one of the most conservative campuses in this country, and there is absolutely no sentiment to accept any of your arguments.

I'll give you the last word on this thread because I have better things to do on a Monday morning (or any morning of the week ending in "day"). Rest assured, however, that I will resist unrelentingly against allowing firearms on this campus, and my side will continue to win the day.

[beevul]

53. Misinformed you are...

"College campuses are one of the few havens from you people, and we like that. We're sick and tired of your agenda that gun possession is a wonderful thing -- everywhere, every weapon. You refuse to accept any restrictions on any weapon and refuse to accept any restrictions on where you can carry them."

I might ask, who we is first. Then I might ask who you people are. Then point out that NOONE argues for every weapon, everywhere - big old fella made of straw there. Then point out that in the face of being told that I would be willing to accept other measures, you state that "You refuse to accept any restrictions on any weapon and refuse to accept any restrictions on where you can carry them". Most folks accept restrictions on firearms covered by the NFA of 1934, including myself, so I really have no idea whom you might be talking about. And most folks accept fully that they can not carry in places like courts of law for example. You see, within a court of law, disarming otherwise law abiding folks actually serves a purpose. That purpose is to assume control of that area. And -color me shocked- the people that impose those rules actually do things to make sure they HAVE control of the area, rather than expecting words to jump off a piece of paper and chew on the ankle of someone that breaks thier rules. Something that those who arbitrarily decided to make the VT campus "gun free" clearly, obviously, and unquestionably, DID NOT DO.

I'm on the faculty senate of one of the most conservative campuses in this country, and there is absolutely no sentiment to accept any of your arguments.

And I stayed at a holiday in express last nite. Your assertion could be for any number of reasons, and suffice it to say, just because no sentiment is expressed, does not mean no sentiment is held. Unless you claim to be a mind reader that is.

Rest assured, however, that I will resist unrelentingly against allowing firearms on this campus, and my side will continue to win the day.

You do that. And make sure you resist "UCLA-style pigs" and metal detectors and anything else that might be prudent
too while your at it.

[jgraz]

52. I have a map like that on the spread of ebola

Except ebola kills far fewer people each year...