I'm going to reenlist. I know this blows my liberal credentials...

[jmowreader]

A couple days ago I was looking around on Classmates.com when I ran into one of my old Army buddies.

This guy may have been the biggest pervert I have ever met. He was a sergeant in Berlin when I knew him...one fine day we received a new troop for Ron's team. We brought the new guy to Ron and introduced him. Ron looked at the guy and asked one question. I can't put the question here because it's a thread-locker. Let's just say it's not what you'd expect a sergeant in the Army to ask a new soldier. He's still working in the intelligence community as a contractor.

Anyway, I sent an email to this fine young gentleman, who sent me back a one-line reply: "Get your ass in here. We need you bad."

And I thought about it. I do many things well. However, they either don't pay shit, I can't get hired because they stop looking at you when they see you don't have a college diploma, or they involve the military. Therefore, it's time to quit denying the simple fact I am, by training and inclination, a noncommissioned officer first and foremost. And it's time to go back to it.

The job I'm going for is Unmanned Aerial Systems Operator.

[yourout]

1. I see nothing wrong with it......Good luck and thanks for your service.

[jmowreader]

21. Thanks for that

I had to admit this after I got a comment on one of my previous posts. Something about how the military only appeals to poor people. (Implication: poor dumbasses.)

And I can kinda sympathize with that: in 2010, a Private E-1 with less than four months' time in service will receive $1339 per month in base pay. That's about what I make driving.

Now as for me...I'm a sergeant with 12 years time in service. They will pay me a substantial amount of money for fulfilling the First Task of the MI Soldier: making sure the other soldiers WALK off the plane at the end of their tour.

Hell, I may even be able to pursue one of my stranger passions: drug testing. I am completely in favor of legalizing weed for people who don't have safety-sensitive jobs...y'know, like soldiers. At the same time, I hate non-pot illegal drugs and soldiers who do drugs. I can just imagine the reaction on the first sergeant's face: "Good afternoon, Top. Here's my piss test NCO card. (I have one!) When's refresher training?"

[walldude]

2. Hey that doesn't blow shit...

We need more liberals in the military... Deep thanks and good luck...



I

[Libertas1776]

3. Hey, you gotta do

what you gotta do. Good luck to ya.

[Subdivisions]

4. Unmanned aerial systems? Isn't that like Predator drones? n/t

[noamnety]

9. That's a good question.

If you're taking a job that you know supports a mission that has a high rate of civilian casualties (as in, it's a known up front, based on statistics, that more than half the kills will be innocent people), maybe it is time to ask yourself some hard questions about what you want to accomplish in life.

[Thickasabrick]

16. Seriously, who would you rather be operating those things....a liberal

or a repuke???

[arcadian]

19. That question is irrelevant.

How about neither?

[Thickasabrick]

22. Yes, but neither is not an option. Neither is my choice but that is

not reality.

[arcadian]

28. Yeah, it is an option. This poster is saying they are gonna fly

remote control airplanes that fly missiles into civilians and is looking for feedback. It is their choice. It is their option. They don't have to do it.

[jmowreader]

35. The poster is going to fly reconnaissance planes, not hunter-killers

I won't be able to get anywhere near the missile-launching ones. It is actually possible to use MI assets to SAVE people, not just to kill them.

Okay, I'll admit it: the government managed to piss off most of the high-quality spooks during the 1990s-era drawdown, keeping the ones who weren't so great. They ran off Paul Menoher, who would have stopped 9/11 from happening if he was Shrub's 8/6 briefer--General Menoher would have sensed Shrub wasn't going to do shit, called the airlines himself and then had a serious heart-to-heart talk (it would have looked like this...



except that General Menoher's about a foot and a half taller than Lee Ermey, and he's never been in the Marines. But I digress.)

[arcadian]

43. Yeah the way Military Intelligence "saved" those people in Abu Ghraib.

[jmowreader]

86. Blame that shit on Bush, not the MI

I hold George Fucking Bush and his gang of evil circus clowns completely responsible for the atrocities at Abu Ghraib. Professionals would never have consented to doing the shit those idiots did in our names.

I have read FM 34-52, Intelligence Interrogation. I haven't read FM 2-22.3, which is its replacement, but I probably should. (You'll like this: When my unit worked Hurricane Andrew relief, we were told we were going to run a relief camp. None of us knew how to run a relief camp--civil relief isn't really something US soldiers train for on a regular basis. Our interrogation platoon sergeant had a strange thought: in reality, a relief camp can't be much different from a prisoner-of-war camp...and FM 34-52 tells you how to set up a POW camp. So he grabbed his copy of FM 34-52 and flew to Florida. Once there we followed the simple and easy-to-understand instructions for housing PWs. Worked great. It's probably easier to run a relief camp than a PW camp--the PWs don't voluntarily report to a prison camp, for one thing. But the rules are basically the same--treat them with respect and keep them safe.) Trust me on this: what happened at Abu Ghraib was one of the lowest moments in my life--I sat there looking at that shit thinking "how in fuck COULD you?"

The only thing I could compare Abu Ghraib to was the Stanford Prison Experiment, except no one stepped in when shit really started getting brutal. Or maybe the Milgram experiment.

[crispini]

111. Snort.

Love your story. Funny stuff.

Good luck to you, sir. :patriot:

[noamnety]

23. That's what I told myself during the years I served.

I eventually came to realize that I was following orders, not making policy, and was kidding myself if I thought my politics effected military actions in any way. The people on the other end of things like drone attacks don't give a shit if the button pusher was a republican or a democrat. It doesn't make their children any less dead.

[G_j]

26. +1

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

36. I realized much the same thing on the rifle range in 1964.

They wanted me to kill people I didn't know, didn't have a quarrel with, and may even have liked, because some politician wanted to prove he was tough.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

39. "Following orders"?

My study of history tells me that most of the troubles in the world have been caused by masses of people willing to "follow orders" instead of using their own consciences and common sense.

[noamnety]

64. Agreed.

I was never a trigger puller, but I still had my part in things, in that I was in the intel community. The first part of my career was strategic intel, the second part counter intel, in both cases I was just doing my job, minding my own business.

It's easy to view that in a very detached way when you aren't on the front line. It's easy to condemn people for "just following orders" when they are the person dropping the bomb or acting as a sniper. It took a while for me to view my part in the operations in that light, because I wasn't in a job where I could draw a connect line between what I did and a specific person being killed. I was a cog. All the same, yes, I was following orders.

[AndrewP]

135. +1

[jmowreader]

30. That's exactly what it's like

The Army has four UAS platforms: the RQ-1 Predator, the RQ-5 Hunter, the RQ-7 Shadow (the plane they start everyone out on) and the RQ-11 Raven. The Raven is really neat--it's so small they launch it by throwing it in the air, and they're GPS controlled so you don't really need a school-trained UAS driver to fly one. Predators are so big the Army ones are flown by civilian commercial pilots and the Air Force ones by Air Force pilots. So...I'll be in either a Shadow (probably) or Hunter (hopefully) unit.

[graywarrior]

5. .

:patriot:

[aikoaiko]

58. +1

:patriot:

[Parker CA]

6. Good for you. Thank you!

[janx]

7. "Unmanned Aerial Systems Operator"

Does that mean what I think it means?

K&R

[HipChick]

17. yes...

There are many aspects to that though..

[aclockworkapple]

160. It means he's flying pilotless drones.

Classic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Jh47UQYQFk

[MineralMan]

8. Thanks for your previous and future service.

USAF vet, 65-69.

[Nikki Stone1]

10. Keep safe.

And I don't think anyone blames your for taking what you can get. Get whatever you can out of the military and steer clear of contractors.

[Renew Deal]

11. I hope you find what you seek.

And it in no way blows your "liberal credentials." Around half the people here are vets. :patriot:

[NNN0LHI]

12. Got to pay the bills. That is understandable

But how would you describe an Afghan or Iraqi man who was out of work and the only job he could find that paid a decent wage was killing Americans though?

Ever thought about that?

Starts getting kind of circular doesn't it?

Don

[superduperfarleft]

114. +1. n/t

[L0oniX]

125. If you really want to get your bills paid it'd be better to join Blackwater.

[jmowreader]

163. That's a disgusting thought

I was going to write a very nice piece about how George the Drunken Sailor's failure to ask for an increase in Department of Defense endstrength figures (endstrength is the total number of troops in the service on September 30) caused him to have to hire all these fuckin' mercenaries to keep his war running, then realized it wasn't a failure at all. No, he INTENDED to do it that way. By not asking for permission to recruit a bunch of sub-$20,000 spec-fours to flip burgers, haul fuel, wash socks, issue ammo and all the other myriad support functions needed to keep warriors downrange, he could pay his buddies $100,000 a year to send mercenaries to do the same shit. Assume it costs $10,000 per year to put a soldier who stays healthy for 12 months in the field, not counting pay. (Fuel doesn't count. We have to pay for his fuel, vehicle and so on whether the guy is wearing an Army uniform or a Blackwater one.) We could have sent three soldiers for every mercenary and still saved money.

No, no, I'll stay with my plan to re-up. It's the honorable way.

[Thickasabrick]

13. Thank you for your service and we need more liberals in the service!

Best of luck to you and please stay in touch....as much as they will let you!

:patriot:

[K8-EEE]

14. Good luck to you!

I think it's very brave to join the military.

[arcadian]

15. You were in the Korean War and you are going to reenlist?

What are you about 74 years old right now? I don't know if they'll take you.

[Bucky]

20. Where'd you get that idea from?

Having served in Korea doesn't mean Korean War veteran. We've had a military presence in South Korea nonstop since 1953.

[arcadian]

27. That decoration is only awarded to those who served until 1954.

During the Korean War. You should read up on Army heraldry.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. Hmmmm. That's interesting.

Nice catch.

[jmowreader]

41. It's the only Korea decoration I could find...

I looked for the Army of Occupation Medal, and it's not one of the allowable avatars.

[arcadian]

45. Well, then you should change that avatar.

Stolen Valor and all that.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MineralMan]

52. It's only the law if he puts it on his uniform. There's no law against

displaying ribbons as an avatar. Knock it off, please...

[arcadian]

57. Knock what off?

If I display a Bronze Star avatar which is an option, don't you think people will think I received the Bronze Star. If they aren't a korean War veteran why are they displaying that avatar. How much you want to bet if I displayed a Vietnam Service medal as an avatar people wouldn't pissed off about it if I hadn't served in Vietnam?

[MineralMan]

60. Knock off maligning another DUer. That's what.

If you have a question about someone's avatar, ask them. I think I'll go find my dad's silver star ribbon from WWII. How would that be if I posted that. Would you start maligning me for it?

Screw this crap. The man is going to re-enlist. You don't like it. That's fine, and you're welcome to say so. But don't start laying crap on him for using a Korean ribbon. He has served. He did not claim that ribbon was his...he uses it because it has to do with Korea.

[arcadian]

66. I did ask them.

I don't care what little decorations people wear, it's the FBI and the Federal government that does. Like I said, them displaying that avatar led me and probably other's as well that that poster served in the Korean conflict, if they didn't that is fine, but they shouldn't display that avatar. Go ahead knock yourself out, put your dad's medal on. March up and down the street with it, I don't give a shit.

[MineralMan]

68. Since he said he was re-enlisting, I assumed that he did not

participate in the Korean conflict in the 1950s. He would obviously be too old to re-enlist. So, I figured the avatar was there for some other reason, as is your peace sign. Now, I don't know whether you protested the Vietnam war, as I did, but I don't care. I don't give a shit what avatar you use. I suggest you apply the same level of unconcern.

The poster is breaking no law whatever, and your statement that he is is bullshit.

[arcadian]

74. I never said he was breaking a law. But the sentiment still applies.

He said that he was in Korea but did not serve and CHOSE that avatar because there was not a Defense of Korea Avatar. They aren't the same thing. And yes, up until this post I did think that poster served in Korea, because I know that ribbon, my friend's dad had one. He actually had the UN one, too. Same color.

[MineralMan]

Really. What was this?

"It's the law Bucky, you jackass."

It's not the law. Anyone can put an image of any decoration on any website. Only if they directly claim to have earned it does the law come into play. You're really reaching, here.

[arcadian]

84. Yes, stolen valor is a law.

Is this really all you have to do with your time? I imagine all you do is lay in wait trying to call posters out on things that don't jibe with your limited world view. Seriously, why? You are clearly also somebody who must have the last word as well. Go ahead. Have it.

[MineralMan]

88. But he didn't do that at all. He never claimed the award.

As for my time, I spend it as I choose. I came into this thread to thank a guy for serving and for his plan to re-enlist. I found your nonsense, so I replied. You called this guy out. I simply replied to your call-out.

I called nobody out. You're the one who did that. Pretty stupid thing to do, really. I only replied to your posts. Bye.

[LanternWaste]

143. I imagine it would be just a troubling

I imagine it would be just a troubling as someone displaying a peace avatar who consistently causes trouble on threads. Six of one, half a dozen of the other...

[MineralMan]

50. Bullshit. Suppose I put up my father's Silver Star ribbon

as an avatar in his honor? Would you start whining about that use?

You disagree with his re-enlistment. Fine. It's not you who's doing it. Lay off the man. Seriously.

MineralMan -- USAF 65-69
MineralMan's Father -- USAAF 1943-46 B-17 Pilot
MineralMan's Grandfather -- USA, 1916-1918 France

I could put any of their ribbons up as an avatar. Buzz off!

[arcadian]

59. If you put that up, then I would think YOU had received that decoration.

Your father ain't posting on DU.

[MineralMan]

63. You would think that, but you wouldn't ask why I had it?

If you did, I'd quote the citation for it and tell you how proud I am of my father's service. So proud that I use his ribbon as an avatar.

The only time there is a legal violation is if someone puts the thing on their uniform or openly says that they earned it when they did not.

You are way, way off base here.

Again, state your service in the military if you served. Leave this guy alone.

[arcadian]

69. So only people who serve in the military can have a discussion about this?

That is rich. Where do you get off? I didn't and won't work for the "Defense" Department. You know you act like it's some kind of fragile glass egg encompassing our nation's most treasured attributes. That is 180 degrees from the reality of it, which is the largest and most destructive force on the planet. Read some Smedley Butler.

[MineralMan]

73. Well, since you got the legality factor wrong,

I guess you don't know as much as you think you do. As long as the poster does not claim that ribbon and does not wear it on his uniform, no law is being broken.

You have no military service. Nothing wrong with that. Most people don't. However, you deliberately did a search to find out what that ribbon was so you could bug this guy about it. How petty is that?

You don't like the military? Who cares what you think about that? How about those WWII vets? Assholes, one and all? Really?

Get over yourself, if you can. This is really, really unseemly of you.

[arcadian]

76. I actually only right clicked and looked at the properties.

It's all right there. I knew it was a Korean War Service ribbon.

[MineralMan]

81. Ah, and your knowledge of law is just about as good as your

knowledge of the military. I see. What I would like to say would be considered an insult, so I won't say it.

[arcadian]

85. Naa, go ahead, I don't have any respect for you anyway.

[MineralMan]

89. Well, now I'm truly hurt...

:rofl:

[MineralMan]

70. You like to research stuff?

Who cares. I don't use this as an avatar, but you're welcome to look it up.

[arcadian]

83. You know I won't even look it up, I'll try and guess.

usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/afmedals/saemr-2.jpg

air force medal, South Asian Expeditionary something. Am I close?

[MineralMan]

87. Not even close. It's a ribbon I'm entitled to wear, though.

I guess your right-clicking isn't foolproof, eh? You made an assumption about that ribbon, and you were wrong. What else are you wrong about assuming. You were wrong about it being the law that he cannot display an image of that ribbon, too. What else are you wrong about?

It's the USAF expert marksmanship ribbon. Has nothing to do with South Asia. It has to do with getting a certain high score firing an M-16 on the range in Basic Training. It's just a freaking ribbon. I'm a good shot. It's a really small deal ribbon. The only one smaller is the freaking Good Conduct ribbon. I have that one too, along with some stupid unit citation. That one, you would never be able to find in some list...it's that insignificant.

So, how do you know you even got his ribbon right? You don't, but you blew off, didn't you? How moronic a thing to do.

[TexasObserver]

131. Yep. Got one of those, too. Second medal we got, wasn't it?

What did we have to hit to get that, 59 out of 60?

When I was in SEA, we joked that you got the Good Conduct Medal if you never got the clap your first three years in. If I recall, we got the GCM at three years, if you hadn't had any serious conduct issues. The marksman medal was from basic, like the red-yellow-red medal we got first. Everyone got that one. Damned if I can remember what it's called. National something or other.

I got a couple of Presidential Unit citations. That's a pretty medal. Blue with gold border, if I recall. Of course, the couple for SEA service way back then. I haven't seen any of mine since I got out in 1972 and gave all my medals to one of my younger sisters. Gave her a jacket and the medals. That's she wanted, and she wore it all the time for a couple of years.

I noticed the OP's medal and knew it was Korea. I thought he was probably in his 70s, but then some of his posts suggested he was much younger. I figured as you did - that he settled for the avatar available.

[jmowreader]

96. It's the Air Force expert marksmanship ribbon

The Army equivalent is...



with a little item under it that says what weapon it's for--there are a lot of things that can be there, including rifle, pistol, machinegun, antiaircraft artillery, field artillery, tank weapons, flamethrower, submachinegun, rocket launcher, grenade, carbine, recoilless rifle, mortar, bayonet, small-bore rifle, small-bore pistol, missile and aero-weapons. I want a flamethrower badge!

I also really want my Driver and Mechanic badge. This pissed me off so much...you get this by driving for 12 months, or for 8000 miles, without an accident or traffic violation. In Korea I drove for 7800 miles and got sideswiped by a Korean guy driving a Kiamaster.

[MineralMan]

100. The Army has way cooler decorations! Of course,

the M-16 I used to get that Expert marksmanship ribbon was the last one I ever saw while in the USAF. There was a rack of M-14s at the base in Turkey, but I don't think anyone knew where the ammo was.

We weren't a combat service anywhere I was stationed.

I had a military driver's license, but just drove guys up and down a hill for the shift we were on. No awards for that duty, except I got to make the donut runs to the mess hall on mids. That was OK.

[jmowreader]

106. The Air Force has many advantages over the Army, but one in particular...

is the four meals a day they serve in the mess hall.

The only units in the Army that had two mess halls were strategic MI units--they put one facility where you lived, the other where you worked. We ran 24/7 operations, so the Teufelsberg chow hall served at 0230, 1130 and 1730. Our mess sergeant had a creative idea: Why don't I serve brunch? I've got the equipment to make it, plenty of food, I'll just make pastries and coffee, sell them to the officers after the morning briefing, and use the proceeds to improve mids breakfast! Wrong answer: the Berlin Brigade food service office told him that since he was serving brunch now he had to stop the mids breakfast--you know, the one the troops on shift from 2330 to 0730 relied on. He cut out the brunch that very day. No good deed goes unpunished.

[MineralMan]

109. At the base in Turkey where I was stationed most of the time,

we had the full rotating shift schedule. The breakfast meal was dinner for the mid guys, so you could always get real food at breakfast. Lots of small steaks, etc.

In fact, both the breakfast and evening meal offered a wide range of options.

Civilian run mess hall there. At 4 AM, they were pulling the breakfast pastries out of the oven. When we were on mids, I'd drive the bus down to the mess hall and get a full tray of pastries to take up to the operations building. Great stuff. We ate very well, except on Friday evening meal. The NCO and Enlisted Men's Club served T-Bone steaks every Friday evening for $1, with all the extras. The mess hall was deserted.

Good times, except for the remote location and the lack of women to talk to.

[jmowreader]

110. Where were you, Incirlik?

I knew a few troops who'd been stationed at Sinop. Their favorite story concerned the traditional newbie joke--"Submarine Watch!"

Whoever came up with this one was true genius--most of the guys who were sent out to do it then found out it wasn't a real duty were pissed they couldn't do it again. Submarine watch was real simple: You went to the watch officer and drew a PRC-77. Then you went to the beach and watched the Black Sea for a submarine to sail by. (Naturally, they only did it to you on clear days when you could properly see the submarines.) So you're sitting there with a cold Coke on the beach watching the waves...good times were had by all. The party came to a crashing halt when someone actually saw a submarine.

We used to send people out on the roof for helicopter watch. That was also a pleasant duty. 'Course, we also had the EMHO count and a few other real winners.

[MineralMan]

118. I was at Samsun. Tuslog Det. 3-2.

Sinop was also on the coast. We were overflown once by a Bear bomber that passed over at about 1000 feet, turned then came back over before heading back to Russia. I didn't have my camera with me when I saw it. There are photos, though. I just don't have any.

[TexasObserver]

132. Incirlik? Diyarbakir?

[jmowreader]

71. Not all that stolen, but I picked something neutral

As of right now I hold:

Army Commendation Medal
Army Achievement Medal (2 oak leaf clusters)
Army of Occupation Medal
National Defense Service Medal
Humanitarian Service Medal
NCO Professional Development Ribbon (with 2 device)
Army Service Ribbon
Overseas Service Ribbon (second award)
Good Conduct Medal (3rd award)
Army Superior Unit Award (permanent award)

Unfortunately, none of those things are available as avatars.

[MineralMan]

75. Good job and thanks, once again, for your honorable service.

Screw those who don't appreciate it and who would attempt to discredit you for using some old ribbon as an avatar. They are irrelevant.

[Vinnie From Indy]

90. I'm not that familiar with the law or the military etiquette in this situation

Could I make the Medal of Honor my avatar when no person in my lineage received that award?

Not trying to pick a fight, just curious about the in and outs of wearing medals and ribbons and such.

[MineralMan]

101. You could, but I'm sure people would object. It wouldn't be

against the law, though.

[dana_b]

94. all that..

and you can't get a civilian job. Argh!!!!

Good luck to you and thanks for all that you do!!

[Hissyspit]

152. My dad was stationed in Korea for one year in 1983. It says 'Korean War' on his Arlington headstone.

The conflict has never been officially ended.

[Fumesucker]

54. Contributors can have any avatar they wish..

I'd be happy to make your AOM avatar for you if you become a contributor.

USMC 69-72

I think this is the medal and ribbon..

[jmowreader]

98. That's it...

Although if I was going to put up a custom ribbon, I'd choose the Humanitarian Service Medal over the AOM. The HSM is rarer.

[MineralMan]

102. If you want, PM me and I'll tell you how to create your own

avatar from any image. It's easy. You could put the HSM up if you wanted.

[Ghost in the Machine]

116. Here's your HSM avatar.. I took the liberty of making it for you...

If you would like just the front side of it, I can do that, too..




Peace,

Ghost

[Bucky]

46. Maybe I should. But that said, you still made a big illogical assumption

Which is more logical?

1) the OP is septugenarian who's actually considering reenlisting, as you seem to think, or...

2) the OP has an avatar that isn't actually reflect his service record.

It could be a tribute to an older family member or maybe an avatar of the actual service pin wasn't available (the one I've seen is red & blue with the little yinyang on it), or maybe he just likes the color blue.

There's a million things I "need to read up on" but I think the minutia of army heraldry is pretty far down list. But I'll keep an eye out for the topic if you promise to start thinking before you post.

[arcadian]

51. I've read that posters comments before.

When I saw that avatar I thought they had served in the Korean War in the 1950s, up until now that is.

[MineralMan]

53. You made an incorrect assumption then, didn't you.

You have a question? Ask. You'll get an explanation.

So, describe your service, since you're maligning someone else's

MineralMan -- USAF 1965-69

[arcadian]

61. Where was I "maligning anybody's service"?

If they served in Korea, post conflict they should put that ribbon up there. If DU doesn't have it, then they should ask Skinner to put it up there. When I see people with the Vietnam service ribbon I assume they served in Vietnam, don't you?

[MineralMan]

67. I assume nothing regarding avatars.

For example, I do not assume from your peace sign avatar that you participated materially in anti-Vietnam war protests. You may have, but I would not make that assumption, nor would I accuse you of not doing so.

I have Fat Freddy's Cat as my avatar. I did not draw Fat Freddy's Cat, nor did I have anything to do with the creation of the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers. I use the avatar because it has some significance for me.

Of all the silly things I have seen you do, this is the silliest.

[arcadian]

79. Don't worry, I think you are just as ridiculous.

:hi: Sounds like you have it out for me?

:rofl:

[jmowreader]

37. The Korean War never ended

I actually WAS in Korea, but not when the active hostilities were going on. Yongsan 1984-1985.

[Hissyspit]

153. You were there same time as my dad, jmowreader. His Arlington headstone officially says 'Korean War'

in additon to 'Vietnam War.' My understanding is that he war has never been declared over.

[MineralMan]

47. I don't believe he claimed that ribbon. It's just an avatar.

You don't like what he is going to do. That's fine. But he didn't claim that he wears that ribbon. It's an avatar that evokes Korea.

[Bucky]

18. Kind of like how being in the Navy blew Joe Sestak's liberal credentials?

Thank you for stepping forward. We have real enemies in the world and some of them can be fought with the military. We're focused on the domestic enemies of reform right now, but even those who want us to pull out of Afghanistan right now have a personal stake in whatever level of success we have in the Middle East. Be safe.

[JVS]

24. Ask them how one tells a wedding from a terrorist gathering.

[jmowreader]

65. I don't have to ask. I know how.

And now you know ANOTHER reason we need real MI soldiers in uniform in addition to, or instead of, what we have.

My opinion about the blown-up wedding: if they had people there who were willing to look at the whole situation instead of maintaining a very simplistic "shoot first, ask questions afterward" attitude (which, of course, the Bushies wanted) the wedding party would not have been blown up. People in the Middle East celebrate by shooting guns up into the air. That's what they do. Someone with ANY knowledge of the region would have known that.

[bahrbearian]

151. So your telling me that as an operator of an unmanned vehicle

that you decide on when and where you fire a missile, really now.

[Hekate]

25. Stay safe...

Thanks for your once and future service.
:patriot:

Hekate

[rocktivity]

29. It should only be about if you think this war is worth fighting.

Since you're volunteering, that's a fair question to ask yourself. Sure, your comrades need the help, but why help anyone if you think they're doing something they shouldn't be?

As for liberal cred, I know what you mean. I witnessed my nephew's graduation from The Sam Walton School of Business back in June--and I wasn't even on the no-fly list!

Keep in touch if you can.

;)
rocktivity

[patrice]

31. If you are actually a Free human making an honestly Free choice, I cannot dispute

that. Since I don't know either one of those factors, I can't support your decision either and I will not thank you for it.

You will need to justify yourself in your own actions, without support from others, and that IS the way it should be.

And that same principle applies to me, so since you volunteered the information, I am compelled by my own values to say I am profoundly sad about those who will get in the way of you making a living by "proving" whatever point there is to your particular participation in Wars 'r' U.S., but I also have to admit that it IS of at least equal weight with your actions that you wouldn't be doing what you are doing if America/I-me-mine weren't who "we" are in the first place.

May God have mercy on us.

[patrice]

32. delete dup'e

[NJmaverick]

34. You should be proud and thank you for your service!

:patriot:

[kestrel91316]

38. Drones. Cool (except if they are used offensively). My dad was career USAF

and spent more than a few years on development and testing of their reconnaisance UAV's

[bevoette]

40. thank you and good luck (nm)

[EFerrari]

42. I hope you get the job you want.

:)

[laughingliberal]

44. Not a bad decision in today's economic climate. I'm an RN and if I wasn't too old, I'd be trying to

get in.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jmowreader]

107. I'm sure Mom will be

Keeping civilians from getting greased unnecessarily will be even more rewarding work.

[cliffordu]

56. I'm liberal and I'd do another tour if they'd let me.

[vadawg]

147. if i was single i would probuably re up as well, but the wife would have a coniption if i did

plus realistically im getting too old and worn to still be able to hump the boonies with a 100lb load..., but gods speed to the OP..

[Tailormyst]

62. Why would that blow your liberal cred?

My brother is a Navy capt and a liberal dem.

[onestepforward]

72. Wishing you the very best and thanks for your service. n/t

[Vinnie From Indy]

77. The only thing that blows is your assumption about liberal credentials

It seems to me that liberals have been fighting and dying for this country since it's inception. Their are fine people in the military that have not lost their liberal credentials and to frame your post in such a manner is actually a bit insulting to liberals. That being said, I wish you and yours all the best, be careful and godpseed!

Cheers!

[MineralMan]

120. And yet, those who call themselves "real" liberals attacked him in

this thread. That raises some questions, I think.

[tammywammy]

78. Good luck n/t

[hack89]

80. Congratulations and good luck. nt

[dkf]

82. With this crappy job market its completely understandable.

Maybe you can figure out how to make your little unit undetectable to the bad guys.

[Algorem]

91. you think need the money ,so you're going to get back with your pervert friend and kill people

for money.got it.

[stray cat]

93. By pervert what bigotry of your own are you referencing?

[Algorem]

95. did you even read his post?he said the friend's a pervert.

[jmowreader]

97. No, not quite

But thank you for playing.

[Algorem]

103. what i said is exactly what you said you're doing,

why don't you be honest about yourself and just get into organized crime.

[mullard12ax7]

140. You are being played, hence the word "Playing"

Misinformation

[Algorem]

141. Good.

at least i'm not one of these "thanks for your service" sycophs.

[stray cat]

92. Thank you for your service and best wishes. You deserve the respect of those of us who don't serve

[RoyGBiv]

99. K&R

:patriot:

[WinterParkDonkey]

104. Good luck - and thank you for your service!

[bridgit]

105. I do believe America has enemies whose intent it is to kill us...

Even with it's X-Box/Halo aspect, Unmanned Aerial Systems are here and green-lighted

[L0oniX]

124. Yea ...they are called health care insurance CEO's.

[bridgit]

133. That's an alternate read

:thumbsup:

[GrantDem]

108. Thank you for your service.

:patriot:

[tabasco]

112. You have no idea what a liberal is

if you think military service isn't part of it.

[MineralMan]

119. Actually, I'm sure he does. He was just anticipating the attacks

from those who attacked him in this thread. He was right. It's a shame.

[Dappleganger]

113. Best of luck to you and be safe!

[Crabby Appleton]

115. Thank you for your service to our country

Good luck!

[varelse]

117. No, it does not "blow" your Liberal credentials

Now, if you were hoping to ever be thought of as a "chickenhawk" you've royally blown those credentials. :P

Thanks for your service to our country - and like E. Ferrari, I hope you get the job you want :)

[proteus_lives]

121. Stay safe soldier!

We need good men and women defending our nation.

Godspeed.

:patriot:

[IndianaGreen]

122. Are you being facetious?

There is nothing wrong with military service. It's the policies that use the military that are the issue.

[L0oniX]

123. You'll still be killing innocent people.

[proteus_lives]

128. How can you be sure of that?

[Ikonoklast]

129. So do people that assemble automobiles.

They have as much blame to carry as anyone for deaths caused by the product they help build.



As a taxpayer you, too, are responsible for accidental civilian deaths, following your logic. You are just one extra step removed from direct involvement.

[L0oniX]

137. I do consider myself to be a murderer because I pay taxes.

If I could elect to not contribute to the military I would do so.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

134. I served and never killed anyone.

[cecilfirefox]

126. You support the patriarchy! OMG!!

I'm teasing. If I could enlist I would, in a heartbeat. But I've got some baggage behind me and a medical pre-condition, and unfortunately for me that chapter in my life is most likely shut. I wish you luck, and I envy you, really.

<3

- Cecilfirefox

[glen123098]

127. I wish you well on your reenlistment.

I just wish the politicians and generals were more respectful of you soldiers and your lives.

[TexasObserver]

130. Once a soldier understands he may have to kill innocents, it is ON him or her.

It's one thing to join, to be naive, and to learn the hard way that being in the military sometimes entails operations mandated for bad reasons by bad men, and may involve killing children in their beds as they sleep. It's another to sign up to do it again, having gained such knowledge.

There's no doubt that the military will let people run equipment that the civilian world would never allow such people to run. Civilians pick from a more qualified pool.

I loved my time in the military, and could have rationalized staying in, as my field was a good distance from the messy business of actually killing close up other humans. But if you know you will be called upon for operations that may be shady in the end, how can you keep doing that?

[Ohio Joe]

136. Keep safe and thanks for your service - nt

[La Lioness Priyanka]

138. i hate when people make deliberately antagonist posts & then get surprised that people

are being hostile

you could have written this numerous ways that wouldnt have started antagonistically

[noamnety]

155. +1

"I'm going in because I can't make ends meet in this economy" tends to be met with a lot more understanding than "the poor military is desperate for more people to operate drones and can't get by without me" even without the preemptive aggression (which will probably fit in well with the mission, now that I think of it).

[applegrove]

139. Good luck to you.

[Prometheus Bound]

142. I'd like to know why your pervert buddie says they "need you bad".

Like the army's gonna go to shit because of one less Unmanned Aerial systems Operator?

[JonLP24]

144. I kinda wish I could

I could certainly use the money.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

145. Go Brave Patriot Go

The fact that you will be a "Unmanned Aerial Systems Operator" makes you especially brave!

[SammyWinstonJack]

158. .

:evilgrin:

[unhappycamper]

146. Naaaaw. Your credentials are just fine.

Good luck!

BTW, I have a DD-214 for my avatar.

[OmahaBlueDog]

148. No, what you're doing is honorable service. I will tell you how I am blowing my liberal credentials.

...I am shopping for a used Chevy/GMC Suburban for Mrs. OBD. This alone may stall climate change.

Good luck. Come home safe. Follow General Patton's advice regarding dying for your country.

[UTUSN]

149. The military needs all the Liberal leavening it can get!1 Stay safe, stay here!1 n/t

[CanonRay]

150. We need liberals in the Army

Go for it man, good luck to you.

[NoPasaran]

154. Stay safe, good luck!

We'll keep the home fires burning.

:patriot:

[seabeyond]

156. the military can use a few good dems.... military has nothing to do with party you chose. nt

[hayu_lol]

157. Fully understand the reasoning...

AF: 53-65.

Maybe you can get Rush off the Armed Forces Radio Net. :^)

Passed through Incirlik several times. Also many of the remote sites.

[Algorem]

159. i guess they must have passed a law

that says that no matter how much of a mercenary piece of crap someone might be,you're supposed to say "thanks for your service".

[TK421]

161. Stay safe...the job situation really sucks ass here

I've been laid off since June and just filed for an extension....I'm sorry that your only option was to reenlist due to lack of work but at least it is a decision you are comfortable with. :thumbsup:

[SOCALS]

162. Could you elaborate

on why this blows your liberal credentials?