I would encourage all DUers who are sick of all this whining to get involved in real-life politics.

[LoZoccolo]

You'll instantly have an advantage over anyone who spends 100% of their activism pursuing activities which allow people who don't have to deal with the complexities and realities of accomplishing anything, to complain about the people who do. You'll learn much, accomplish much, have fun, and make friends. And when it's all done, you'll be a part of what's made people's lives easier and the world a better place. Oh, and you'll look back at all this drama going on on the Internet and laugh.

I invite you to keep track of how much political time you spend online for a month. Could you put half of it into something tanglible?

There is a link to Democratic Meetups in my signature. Illinois residents get an extra-special bonus with Illinois Dem Net. And if an organization like that doesn't exist near you, why not start one?

You can make one more click and help us win 2010 and 2012 while the rest stay stagnant.

[debbierlus]

1. Many people here ARE on the ground activists

You might want to qualify your post with...'for those who haven't transformed their political dialogue to real world on-the-ground political action....

[LoZoccolo]

4. Oh yeah, I've seen it myself.

Unfortunately, people are actually hostile towards receving the wisdom of their experience.

[Nikki Stone1]

29. I was a very active activist for a long time.

I still am involved in union activities. But I've been disappointed so often in all that energy being spent on bad candidates, that I am very selective about where I spend these time.

You, LoZ, need to stop preaching and start actually thinking.

[Zomby Woof]

65. You're on here more than most of your targeted audience

Not that you had any credibility to begin with.

[dysfunctional press]

2. i've been involved for 30+ years, and i'm hanging it up.

it's become painfully obvious that it just doesn't work anymore.

[MineralMan]

6. Al Franken.

[LoZoccolo]

8. Good, stay away, you'll just weigh down others. n/t

[cliffordu]

19. Well.....

That'll leave a mark...

:rofl:

[earthside]

That's the Mantra of a Permanent Minority.

I've been involved for forty years on behalf of Democratic and progressive causes ... and this Senate health insurance legislation STINKS!

The 'real world' politics of this is that you can only demoralize so much of the activist base ... the Democratic Senate leadership and Pres. Obama have made a huge miscalculation.

THAT is the real world, bottom line truth about the current situation.

[dysfunctional press]

27. no problem.

i've always enjoyed being in the audience for good slapstick.

[laughingliberal]

47. Very persuasive

Not!

[LoZoccolo]

63. What did he need to be persuaded about?

He wanted to leave, and I said that it's just as well.

[walldude]

3. Yeah because only you have actually been involved.

No DU'ers who are according to you "Obama bashers" worked for Obama. We didn't phone bank, canvass, collect donations. We all just sat around and let you do all the work. Did tweety give you your talking points today little boy?

These blatant attempts by you to marginalize people who have serious and righteous complaints are pathetic. I notice you post one of these scribes every 15 minutes or so. THey are really fun to read, I haven't heard lemming speak in years.

[LoZoccolo]

7. My experience is the more you do, the less you complain.

For the simple fact that complaining is not really doing.

And never once did I imply that I was the only one. Just an hour or so ago I gave props to someone who's done a thousand times more than me.

[Toasterlad]

33. Just Because You Can't Walk and Chew Gum At the Same Time Doesn't Mean Others Are Handicapped.

Your "experience" isn't worth shit.

I was complaining the whole time I was a the equality march in October. I was complaining when I wrote Casey and Sestak and Specter and Obama. I was complaining when I manned a booth at Pride, and when I volunteered at the William Way center in Philly.

Activism IS complaining, fool.

[laughingliberal]

49. That's a good point. Not too many activists I've known in my life who work their tail off

for the status quo. It is those who are not pleased with the direction of things who tend to get involved.

[MineralMan]

5. Thank you! It is the only way we will make something happen.

[Bluebear]

9. Do you do anything besides post lame polls and lecture people?

Honest to fuck, why do you assume none of us ARE involved in "real-life politics". What an ego.

[AllentownJake]

11. Hey at least it was 3 sentences of taunting than the usual 1.

[Bluebear]

12. 'I invite you to keep track of how much time you spend online for a month.' - Physician heal thyself

Jesus Christ already! :)

[AllentownJake]

15. Yes and the guy obviously understands there are busy seasons for activism

People don't give a shit till about one month before a primary and one month before a general election.

There is ground work to be done in the off season in between, however, once the players are set, generally the results of any legislative agenda is rather predictable.

[LoZoccolo]

14. I assume that because IRL Democratic activists don't talk like purely "netroots" ones.

Oh, and because:

1. Most of the IRL people I know don't even go to DU.
2. My threads about "what are you doing" sink like anchors.

[Bluebear]

16. 'My threads about "what are you doing" sink like anchors.' - nobody is accountable to you.

[LoZoccolo]

24. Of course not, but anyone involved in activism knows there are never enough people...

...and would jump at the chance to share opportunities with other people, which is what the threads are for. Not everyone realizes that people in a solid blue/red state can often find a free bus ride to a swing state to campaign, or where to go for that, for example.

[dgibby]

58. Do you really think they sink because of your topic,

or could it be something else?

[LoZoccolo]

61. Then they should get over themselves. n/t

[Forkboy]

68. Physician, heal thyself.

[TheWatcher]

50. Yes, he also mindlessly cheerleads the administration unquestioningly and chastises those who don't.

I mean, come on, there IS a little variety here. :)

[AllentownJake]

10. Let me get this straight

The solution to the problem of this disaster of a bill, is to volunteer for the DNC ran by the people, who brought you the bill.

[AndyA]

20. I agree...because that's sure to bring about change and make things better for the people, right?

I just don't get this undying love and affection for everything that places a "I'm a Democrat" label on itself. Many of these entities are hard to tell from the GOP.

There's a lot of abusive crap forced on us that has DNC written all over it. Why would anyone progressive want to continue to support that?

[AllentownJake]

30. Well if you just give us more money, volunteer hours, and support

We can do what you want.

Bernie Madoff would be proud.

[Forkboy]

13. Yelling "dooga dooga dooga" at people isn't activism.

[LoZoccolo]

18. Yes it is.

I was building my "personal brand".

[Forkboy]

25. Trust me, you don't need to develop a personal brand anymore.

[Moochy]

52. Brand Awareness

it's "Enriched with nitrogen, phosphorous and potassium"

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

17. As illustrated by the HRC bill, and the escalation of a lost war, politics is highly overrated

as an agent of change.

Activism is far more effective when used to achieve actual goals rather than have bought and paid for politicians dicker over their payoffs.

See the Civil Rights, Women's, and Peace movement for examples. And, the barriers put up against them by politicians.

[LoZoccolo]

28. Why do you, an anarcho-syndicalist, even bother complaining about politicians?

Isn't your whole deal supposed to be constructing systems that allow people to cooperate with each other more fully and ignoring the government?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

31. I like to irritate them and it beats working for a living.

And, sometimes Anarchists do a helluva good job at getting rid of governments. Gandhi for instance.

[Missy Vixen]

21. I've held political office

You'll have to try your "you don't work hard enough for change" crap with others. I have been volunteering for the Democratic Party and its candidates since 1978.

Does this mean I have your permission to complain now?

:eyes:

[mitchtv]

22. My experience (since 68)

people who spend time trashing activists, are usually DLC clones, or reasonable facsimilies

[Moochy]

35. Add Failed Armchair Politicians to that list of people who spend time trashing activists

Harold Ford's online anklebiters, bitter at the liberals for trying to hold people accountable.

[LoZoccolo]

44. Who are you even talking about? n/t

[Moochy]

46. You are right that made no sense

Sorry for that. :) see edit. I had you momentarily confused with a wolf from the wyld.

[LoZoccolo]

59. I thought he was cool.

And if someone else from here thinks they can do better than him or Harry Reid or Barack Obama or Rahm Emanuel or Nancy Pelosi they're free to run as well.

[Moochy]

60. I knew you were wolves of a feather

No venom yet this morning, i'm pre coffee. :hi:

[LoZoccolo]

62. The thing was, people thought they could argue with him by screaming "DLC! DLC!".

He didn't care; he was a member. You can scarcely win purely on ostracization online because you can't really take much from people you don't like. I've met like six DUers in real life, two probably don't remember me, two probably don't remember my real name, and one or two agree with me (probably because, as is the subject in the OP, I met them due to campaigns). So if people don't like me here, it doesn't matter.

So pretty much all that leaves is whether one's argument is better, and I have to say, wyldwolf did his homework much more than most. I can rememer when people would claim that the Democrats lost seats in 1994 because they weren't "progressive" enough and he'd give you the list and ask which ones; they couldn't have been bothere with even looking up who one and lost. wyldwolf was an all-star; it's this lack of intellectual diligence on the part of it's opponents that puts the DLC on top.

[Moochy]

66. "it's this lack of intellectual diligence on the part of it's opponents that puts the DLC on top."

Not to mention the fact that they are ruthlessly evil, and not held to any rigid ideology save enhancing corporate personhood.

have a good sunday, and don't start too many locked threads. :P

[ima_sinnic]

23. what a joke. the time I spent working for this president is time I will never get back

feel free to flush your time down the toilet to get people in office who want to rob you, but I've hung that up. The same goes for my money. We have a one-party system now, in case you haven't noticed, and I don't plant to "help" it.

[LoZoccolo]

26. Well, if you're that discouraged, my advice to you is

to stay away from those of us who feel we aren't wasting our time, before you spread your cancerous fail to others.

[AllentownJake]

32. You are the one posting in General Discussion

Maybe you should post your appeals to the Rainbow Bright Forum.

[ima_sinnic]

38. lol! really--I've often speculated that that one lost its way ... (nt)

[LoZoccolo]

40. General Discussion of Democratic Underground n/t

[AllentownJake]

41. Yes and for all your bullshit post

you are chiding people, who volunteered and donated just as much as you did last year, some on here have been doing things since Kennedy was running for election, some are new to activism.

Which brings me back to my point, if you feel the DNC has just fucked you, how does volunteering for the DNC help you.

[LoZoccolo]

42. I just really doubt it due to the tenor of the complaints.

They don't go anywhere; they wouldn't be so counterproductive if they weren't just for their own sake or to manipulate people through drama.

As for your question; I addressed this a couple days ago in a post that only two people responded to and the rest were just satisfied with unreccomending and running away from.

[AllentownJake]

43. Well at anytime

Feel free to I-M me over my Barack Obama creds. You'll discover like another person who likes to shout bluster and divisive bullshit, there is a slim chance you can win a pissing contest.

[bridgit]

34. Not So Breaking News Update: DU disavows "real-life politics" for ear phone heads and dirty beds

[dkf]

36. I have been involved in real life politics.

Now I'm thinking it was a waste of time.

They're all sellouts.

[Tailormyst]

37. Picking fights on the internet everyday is not activism LoZoccolo.

[elocs]

39. LoZoccolo: he remains, King of the UnRec.

:bounce:

[MadHound]

45. Umm, most of us here have been and are involved in real life politics

I've been involved since I was eleven, cut my teeth on the McGovern campaign. In fact I went to my local biweekly anti-war protest/rally today in the snow and cold. And you? Oh, yeah, posting more bullshit on the intertubes:eyes: What a bastion of activism you are.

And thank you, but I'll stay away from the DNC, after all, they are the ones who have helped in a major way getting us into this huge problem we're in. But don't worry, I'm going to remain active and engaged, but after what has happened less than one year into this current administration and Congressional term, it's looking less and less likely that my energy and money is going to be spent on the behalf of the Democratic party. How's that for activism?

But hey, keep it up with your holier-than-thou posts, they're always good for a laugh.

[mmonk]

48. I do and have. I earned the right to whine in person and the internet.

[treestar]

51. Nobody on DU can prove they actually did anything or not

anyone can make any claim on the internet.

some make so many posts it's questionable they have the time to be doing anything.

But you make a good point. Posting on DU can be fun but it doesn't really accomplish anything.

[AllentownJake]

53. I can

want to see me on TV

[treestar]

54. There's not way to prove it's you

That's why I discount all those claims.

[AllentownJake]

55. Friend me on Facebook than see the video there?

:evilgrin:

[dgibby]

56. Whining?

unrec.

[pecwae]

57. Oh my.

Another scolding about the Internet from someone using the Internet.

[Bjorn Against]

64. I am involved in real-life politics, it involves a lot more than saying "dooga dooga dooga"

[RetroLounge]

67. Too bad it's too late to unrec

:puke:

RL