Most humorous will be in 2011 when Obama begins campaigning on this "triumph"

[coti]

"Hey, you guys remember when I forced you all to buy into a for-profit, completely broken private insurance system without even imposing serious regulations or competition on them to prevent them from gouging you?"

"Wasn't that GREAT?"



"BOOOOOOOOOO!"

[spanone]

1. the real funny thing will be the republicans trying to take credit for 30 million getting hc

[coti]

2. They'll run against it. They're, apparently, smarter than the Democrats. nt

[BlueCaliDem]

6. Are you lost? This is NOT the REPUB underground. Cheerleading

repubs while shooting down Democrats doesn't belong here.

[coti]

12. It's not cheerleading them to admit that they're going to be in a

much stronger political position on this issue than we are- thanks to our awesome leadership.

[BlueCaliDem]

25. Yeah, it is. Try rewording your posts so you don't across as a

right-of-center cheerleader. It really isn't that hard - IF you're a Democrat, that is.

[coti]

32. Right-of-center cheerleader? Aren't YOU the one who's defending

giving hundreds of billions of dollars away to private insurance companies? That corporatism?

Because our leadership has taken a corporatist position, the GOP is, amazingly, going to have a very powerful, populist message on this issue- Obama forced you to buy insurance from private insurance companies.

The people who are supporting this bill are the ones doing this damage to us. That's what happens when you don't think a position out clearly- i.e., if you're going to force people to buy insurance, you'd better give them (or at least some of them) a decent program by which to do so.

[BlueCaliDem]

40. See? That's better than: "They'll run against it. They're, apparently, smarter than the Democrats. "

Thanks for rewording your post as you clarified it.

The bill ain't over until the President signs it, or he vetoes it and Congress overrides it. Until then, I'll withhold judgment because I'm pretty sure they (CorporateDems) know the Senate bill is a piece of chit and it needs to be heavily amended or they'll be voted out come 2010 and 2012. I just hope liberals aren't stupid enough to stay home and allow the repubs to win by default, because that's the ONLY way they win. Oh, and steal elections too.

Obama gave his guidelines; i.e. what he wants in the health care bill. He's never campaigned on single-payer (that was Kucinich) and he never campaigned on a "public option". He campaigned on universal health care, and this Senate bill ain't it.

President Obama is on friggin tape and all over YouTube saying this, so there's no "misinterpretation" possible.

[Joe Chi Minh]

56. I hope you're right. People are mad angry now, but come 2011, they

won't need to be mad as a cut snake to stay at home, because most of the many additional, non-habitual voters who came out to vote for Obama (making a totally fraudulent result too risky) will simply be too demoralised to make the epic effort - because that's what it was, given the harassment and fraud of the Republicans - to vote.

Of course, we're at a point now where the signs aren't good, and we don't even know if it matters to any of them if Republicans get in next time. There seems to be a master-servant relationship between Republican, corporate America and the Democrat 'wheels'; and the fact that they are the 'wheels' in the party suggests that their allegiance is not to their base, so they would be well-practiced in taking a back-seat as another political quid pro quo of some kind. All pals together.

By the way, you are wrong about Obama and the public option.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/07/obama-demands-the-bill-i-sign-must-include-public-option.php

[BlueCaliDem]

59. Thank you for your post. However, I'm not wrong about

candidate Obama campaigning ON a public option.

The article you linked was of July 2009 when single-payer was off the table and the Congress was telling us that they were going for a public option. That's when he began talking about it (and trying to hush the media that kept asking why won't he say "public option"??

But before any vote was cast, Obama never campaigned on any public option simply because it did not yet exist.

[tavalon]

52. I agree with the low count poster

Care to call me a freeper? Covertly, that is?

[BlueCaliDem]

54. Good for you! Want a cookie?

Why should I give a chit what you are, overtly OR covertly?

When you dis Democrats and then call repubs "smarter" you come across as a member of the Republican Underground - or am I missing something here?

Do try and get over yourself.

[gravity]

51. They have no poltical position on the issue

and once the bill passes and the public realizes that all their talking points are false, they will have nothing. The Republican party is always going to whine and complain, but the Democrats will tout their accomplishments and win the election.

[still_one]

13. yeah, there are real smart. they go us into two wars and bankrupted the country

They are the party of NO.

And people may be pissed at the Democrats, but they aren't voted for the republican shit again. They may sit it out, but they aren't going anywhere

[Thickasabrick]

21. Perhaps you need to see a recent poll that said Independents will

probably vote republican. Independents hate whoever is in power.

[BlueCaliDem]

26. The only polls that count are the ones open on Election Day

all others are nothing but speculation and can be biased in accordance with any pollster's manner of asking a question, and political agenda.

[still_one]

27. Please provide the link. "Independents hate whoever is in power?" Independents

determine elections.

The polls I have seen do not correlate with what you are reporting. RCP

[Thickasabrick]

34. Poll information below......

Because of a struggling economy with widespread job losses, Goeas said, "the pool of angry independents is larger than what you normally see in an off-year election year. It is certainly something that is going to be problematic for the Democrats. .

In a "generic" contest between an unnamed Democratic candidate and an unnamed Republican candidate for Congress, 42% of those surveyed said they would support the Republican; 40% opted for the Democrat.

Among those swing-voting independents: 40% said they would select the Republican; 19%, the Democrat.

The voters most likely to support Republican candidates for Congress are more likely to vote next year, according to the survey.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-world/la-na-battleground-poll17-2009dec17,0,3678129.story

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

3. At least it'll still be a hope message. Pre-existing condition reform will only be three years away

[coti]

5. LOL

That's right- "Don't worry guys, those benefits will be here in three short years!"

[Arkana]

4. And you'll go "Boy, I sure am smart. I'll vote for the Republican.That'll teach that bastard!"

And you'll cast your ballot with the biggest fucking smirk on your face and you'll sit and watch the election returns and if Obama loses you'll spend the next 4-8 years wondering why things are still shit.

[coti]

7. I promise you- I won't vote Republican.

Feel better?

Now you can be in on the joke.

[BlueCaliDem]

10. ... and blame Obama again and again... ad nauseam eom

[tavalon]

53. He fucked this one up badly

He's done good stuff in his administration but this wasn't one of them.

[BlueCaliDem]

55. No, he didn't, but keep saying it over and over again. Karen Hughs said

it best: keep saying something over and over again and people will believe you.

Good thing I'm not that gullible or submissive.

The article directly contradicts your speculation, but you know that. Still, these days on DU it's more fashionable to dis Dems than it is repubs, it appears.

[tavalon]

57. Our collective shock at being punked is why we're mad at the Dems

We expect that sort of behavior from Republicans and now we are beginning to realize, we should expect it from Dems. Please don't let the many here who are waking up to this affect you, who clearly doesn't see it yet.

[BlueCaliDem]

63. No, we should not expect or tolerate repuke behavior by Dems in Congress

but we mustn't get in the gutter and become the left's version of the right's tea baggers either.

Believe it or not, the left's anger and continuous attack of Democrats and the President only strengthens the repubs and the GNO!P.

That populists anger is becoming headline news for corporate media to blow out of proportions in time for the 2010 elections, and to help perpetuate disenchantment to benefit repubs.

Let's not forget, that if we didn't have 40 obstructionists Repubs in the Senate, RepubliCrats like Nelson, Landrieu, CONrad, Lincoln, and others wouldn't have the power to join hands in a repub Kumbaya against us.

The repubs are forcing Dems to get 60 votes for EVERYTHING, empowering the DINOs in Congress and strengthening the repub Party for the coming elections.

Righteous, but LOUD, Leftists are only aiding and abetting the repub coup in 2010.

[tavalon]

64. Shouldn't tolerate it but shouldn't speak up either

How does that work exactly?

[Mari333]

11. no, people will vote 3rd party or for dems that didnt sell out

and if Obama loses, it will be because he chose that path .

[still_one]

15. Really. Which Democrats? Do you speak for all Democrats? What about independents?

They were not, and still aren't particularly happy with republicans

[Mari333]

17. Lots of progressive Independents like Bernie Sanders

if the GOP takes over, the only ones who can blame themselves are the Dems in office now, who didnt listen to their constituents.

[still_one]

22. We'll see. As far as Sanders, he is voting for the Senate bill, and I suggest that there will be

an active effort to amend the bill after it becomes law

[coti]

24. That would be the hope, but after all this

I'm not going to kid myself into thinking that's actually going to happen. If anything, it'll get even weaker.

[still_one]

29. OK, then why bother. Just bitch about it /nt

[dflprincess]

30. Yeah, just like they fixed NAFTA after it became law

and NCLB and the Patriot Act, why the list of things they've fixed after they became law just goes on and on. :sarcasm:

They've protected their corporate masters with this bill and nothing is going to be changed. So some of them get voted out of office, they don't care they'll have very lucrative lobbying jobs waiting for them and we'll be screwed.

[still_one]

31. Fine, then go start your own party. Because you either work with what you have or you give up /nt

[dflprincess]

36. I haven't given up

but after 37 years of sticking with these sellouts through thick and thin and believing things would improve when the Democrats were back in charge, I'm fed up.

[still_one]

41. good, I am glad to hear that, really /nt

[Arkana]

42. Yeah cause we had a compliant Congress/President/Supreme Court

for the last 20 years!

What's that, recorded history? You say we didn't? Well that's just your opinion.

[sabrina 1]

37. To get Bernie Sanders vote, they actually had to do something

for the people. See, that's the difference between Sanders, who is actually smart and committed to helping the people, and the rest of the Democrats who sold their votes, like John Kerry eg (ever check to see how much money he got from the 'Health' industry?) just for the money, when they could have taken the route Sanders took, and made Harry Reid and Obama actually give something to the people. But Kerry attacked Dean like all the others who take their orders from their corporate bosses. If someone is paying your salary, unless you want to quit your job, you do what they tell you. Sadly the people have NO representation in DC. We never had much, but this 'debate' has clerly demonstrated that now we have none at all. All that money, it really does talk.

If you think people are going to forgive this travesty by the next election, then you haven't studied this bill and how similar it is to Romney Care. All you have to do is look what has happened to the 'many more people covered' deception in Massachussetts to see where this is headed.

Fortunately, the American people, contrary to what the elitest Rahm Emmanuel thinks of them, are pretty smart. Which is why only 33% of them supported this mess. And by 2012, they will get to see some of it in action.

The bailouts, the War, and now this. What next? Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran? Nothing would surprise me anymore. One thing we know now, when your own party tells you to get lost, to STFU, as Rahm Emmanuel, speaking for his boss, just did, that's exactly what people do.

Edited to add:

Why did John Kerry attack Dean? We know the Insurance Industry didn't want a public option, or all those under 65 potential customers, to have access to Medicare. Dean was a threat to Kerry's bosses it seems, so he did what he had to do:

Health Sector Contributions to Members of the 111th Congress, 1989-2009*


Name Office State Health Sector** Health Insurance Pharma Health Pros Hospitals Nursing Homes
Obama, Barack P IL $20,144,316 $1,552,981 $2,132,573 $12,108,983 $2,881,638 $244,190
McCain, John S AZ $9,027,044 $736,884 $902,915 $6,325,601 $658,250 $152,950
Kerry, John S MA $8,344,060 $687,434 $887,043 $4,717,648 $1,306,997 $169,190
Specter, Arlen S PA $4,521,093 $382,228 $1,238,916 $1,738,490 $795,928 $92,100
Baucus, Max S MT $3,902,881 $675,349 $1,099,605 $1,401,776 $421,542 $232,949

Disgusting. We the people just can't afford to pay them off. And we sure can't afford to have them in office anymore. Just think, most of that money comes from OUR premiums. Instead of using it to cover sick people, they are paying off Congress to increase their profits even more, by passing legislation that benefits THEM.

Keep apologizing for them if you wish. Imho, anyone who takes that kind of money, has zero credibility on the subject of Health Care. They have a huge conflict of interest and all of them should have been forced to recuse themselves. But then, who would be left? Looks like Congress has been totally overtaken and the few who aren't, are demonized by the rest.

[still_one]

44. What will determine the election is the economy. If more people are put back to work

the Democrats will win, otherwise, not

I cannot predict what will happen with that

We will not bomb Iran, and neither will Israel attack Iran or Iran attack Israel. It is not in any parties interest to do so

When the HCR act becomes law, it will be amended before 2014, that's my prediction, and it will have a public option, and no exclusion for women as a pre-existing condition

In the course of time we will see who is right

[sabrina 1]

46. Has the horrific Welfare Bill been amended yet?

I think it's been over 15 years or something since Clinton told people that would be fixed. And didn't Democrats tell us that getting rid of the Glass Seagal Act in 1999 would bring great prosperity to the nation, as the 'market' would be free from restrictions at last? And all but 8 of them voted for ending it. We've seen how right they were about that too.

Who in this Party as it is right now is going to WANT to 'fix' this bill? The Party has been taken over, I guess you haven't realized that yet. This bill will NOT be fixed. They fought hard, Obama and Reid and Baucus and their bosses to get it just the way it is. They didn't stop until they got rid of the last tiny benefit that was for the people.

Do you really think they couldn't have gotten a public option if they wanted one? That they really only had the option of '60 votes'? That is not so. They could have used reconciliation and gotten it with 51 votes. You don't get it, the Democrats did not want a Public Option because they are more afraid of the Corporations than they are of the people. Who did they paint as villains? Joe Lieberman? Max Baucus? The Teabaggers? Ben Nelson? No, they turned on Dean, the man who helped put them in power. I don't need to see any more than I've seen for the past few months.

As for the economy. That is what they are counting on. Well, this bill will adversely affect so many of the working class economically that even if a miracle happens with the economy, it won't do them much good. Some of us have principles. Rahm is counting on people being like him. What he calls 'pragmatic' but there's another name for what he is. And we all don't operate as they do, based on money.

Up to about a few weeks ago, I still didn't get it completely either, now I do. There is nothing worse than having false hope. At least when Bush was in power, there was no sense of betrayal. And now, that is how I feel again.

Wasting time on these politicians for me, is over. I will get together with all the other disgusted people I know, and work for something that is realistic, not wishful thinking like 'the Dems are going to come through for you' they're not. And it's a sense of relief actually to finally accept that.

[emilyg]

47. Thank you.

[Arkana]

39. Really? Independents like Bernie Sanders...who voted for the bill?

[Richardo]

8. What an ass.

I mean the OP.

[coti]

16. The asses are our Democratic leaders who sold us a bill of goods

on this issue. They flat-out lied to us.

And now we're going to be forced to hand over thousands of dollars to these lovely private insurance companies who've shown no interest in anything other than taking our money while not providing care to us.

Don't be angry at me. You know what just happened.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

18. I think you need more than 67 posts to earn

your Obama bashing credentials...just say'in.

[GreenArrow]

43. One post is enough

when you're telling the truth. The OP is.

Really, fuck that post counting rubbish.

[snagglepuss]

45. +1

[emilyg]

48. +2

[racaulk]

60. +3

[Ozymanithrax]

9. Republicans will run against everything.

It is what they do...

It is all they do...

I won't give a dime to the Democratic Party, but if this bill passes, I will donate to President Obama and to the Senators and Congressment who voted for it, if I have a job.

But hey will have my vote and support even if I am still broke.

[still_one]

19. I am not happy about this bill, but if it becomes law, I will communicate with my representatives

that I want it amended

and you know something, eventually it will be

Social Security was amended, and so has Medicare been

I believe this bill will become law, and the republicans will have it shoved up their ass because they did NOT present any alternative

[dflprincess]

35. Yeah, and they'll listen to you just like they listed to all the calls

they got about single payer and/or a public option.

This bill is a disaster for the middle class and the Republicans don't need an alternative, all they have to do is remind the people they didn't support it and they'll point to it as proof that "government interference" in health care doesn't work.

The Democratic party just fixed it so the insurance companies will continue to take our money and deny us access to health care for years. If we continue to bring up real reform with the corporate stooges in Congress all we'll get is blank stares and they'll tell us we have "reform".

Michael Moore might as well start working on "Sicko - the Sequel" now.

[Mari333]

14. He lives in a DC bubble

Bush did , too. advisors all around him covering his ass so he has no idea what the people of the USA think.
Imperial Presidency.

[flvegan]

20. I'll wait until 2011 to judge his failures and successes.

Yeah, what we've got moving forward is simply shit but I don't have a crystal ball.

[still_one]

23. Agreed, and a lot can happen either way /nt

[pissedoff01]

28. Will there be long lines and overfilled stadiums? He may have to pay Democrats to show up

[still_one]

33. How much /nt

[rollingrock]

38. 'Change we can believe in'

I think I will die laughing if they use this campaign slogan in 2012.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

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[uppityperson]

58. yet there are 26 recs.

I am considering not Duing for a while, it is very odd these days

[laughingliberal]

50. You know the worst of it won't be in effect when he has to run again. I don't think that's an

accident. If he wins reelection, most people won't be aware of what's going to hit them until he's being sworn in for his 2nd term.

[varelse]

61. I won't be laughing

let's just hope it doesn't happen. The alternative is probably President Romney. :(

[marshall]

62. The Peace Prize has a lot of street cred

They don't pass those things out everyday.

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

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