Stunning logic by Dick Durbin on "This Week"

[woo me with science]

Republicans HATE the bill. Democrats HATE the bill. This is evidence that we must be charting a good middle course.

I love representative government.

:banghead: :puke:

[joeybee12]

1. There's a good reason why his first name is "Dick",,,n/t

[Oceansaway]

3. exactly...lapdog Durbin is a DICK...n/t

[KittyWampus]

21. You are calling one of the most reliable liberal Senators a "dick"? The word jackass comes to mind.

[stillrockin]

2. bullshit

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

4. A 100% flat income tax would match that criteria as well.

Incredibly inane and designed for the logic challenged.

[Ken Burch]

5. You'd get the same response with a bill making Latvian the official language

or criminalizing cookie-baking.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

6. A law mandating that mattresses be made of woven threads of live slugs.

:think:

[woo me with science]

20. +1 nt

[Ken Burch]

27. Actually, they have that in Montana

It's just that so few people live there nobody's noticed.

[peacetalksforall]

7. That was really stupid.

[Laelth]

8. Astounding, isn't it?

Most of the Democratic Party is tying itself into a pretzel trying to justify this turd of a bill so that the President can claim "victory." They all know the bill stinks, yet they are forced to toe the Party line. It's disturbing to watch.

Kill the bill.

Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the answer to a failed health care system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.

:dem:

-Laelth

[OnionPatch]

9. Republicans will hate the bill no matter what.

At least they could have satisfied the MAJORITY of the people, you know, the ones who voted Democratic last fall.

[Toots]

10. Wonder what Party he belongs too?

If Democrats hate the Bill and he is a Democrat and yet wants to force it through........Logic does not apply..

[Kansas Wyatt]

11. Gee, I thought Obama and the Democrats had a mandate...

To actually push the country to the LEFT!

Why do they think they had a mandate to never deviate from the center?

Shove right, cling to the center, shove right again, cling to the center again, etc. etc.
THAT DOESN'T CHANGE THE FUCKING DIRECTION OF THE COUNTRY!!!

[KharmaTrain]

16. Hardly A Mandate To Push The Country Left

If you felt that way, then no wonder you're feeling so disjointed. Last year's vote was against the swing to the far right...against rushpublicans. Democrats won in spite...the hate of boooosh along with the ineptness of McCain helped President Obama more than any calls for healthcare reform.

[Kansas Wyatt]

17. The push back to the left I am talking about...

Was to take back what was given up in our shove to the right. You NEVER regain lost ground, by calling a truce and accepting what you have lost. That's certainly not 'hope' for anything better, and it will NEVER 'change' the direction of the country.

This country's direction will NEVER change course as long as we keep having hard shoves to the Right, followed by leveling the steering wheel in the center, because there is NO turning left.

The Democrats wiped out the Republican Party in the last election. Sure Fuzz Nuts helped with that, but people also seen through the bullshit of the Republican Congress members too. The American People wanted their Government to work for them, rather than Wall Street for a change, which is why they turned it all over to the Democrats. The American People know that you DO NOT relieve people being beat down, by just cooling the sharp right turn for awhile. You fight back.

If you really believe what you wrote, prepare yourself to be scratching your head trying to figure out 'why people would vote against their best interests.' No wonder the Democratic Party shoots itself in the foot all the time.

Bottom Line:
Democratic Party = Good Cop
Republican Party = Bad Cop

[KharmaTrain]

24. "The American People"

That's quite a broad assessment there. And one that is sure to lead to disappointment and frustration as I neither speak nor profess to know what the "American people" think and my views are based on a lifetime of observing and being active in the political world and the media.

As you say, you never regain lost ground or should assume ground you have that you don't have a solid stake on. While Democrats won the last two elections, it is a broad-based party representing many different areas and interests. A lot of the pick-ups were in purple and red districts which are going to be more conservative and those representatives will look after their interests that are at odds with members from other areas. Unlike the rushpublicans who have become a white male party, the many interests that form the Democrat's base are going to clash and have differences. If you speak to a black person, healthcare isn't their bitch, it's the lack of jobs and a financial recovery...speak to a LGBT Democrat and their priorities are DADT and DOMA. Inversely, a Conservo-Dem is going to favor defense and "less government". Thus the party has a lot of different centers not a leftward one. But then just as I chringe when I hear a pundit say this country is "right/center", I also disagree that it's "left/center". In essence the pendulm moves...it hit the extreme right in 2004 and has moved to the center. Now if Progressives can get better messages and more elected representatives, the pendulum moves further to the left...this is where your push should be.

Cheers...

[Kansas Wyatt]

26. I was referring to economic issues, which includes health care, since it is a business.

Too bad the Democratic Party stopped standing up for Working Americans.

A lot of those new voters in Red States were looking for the Democratic Party to move the country back to the left on economic issues, not the center. All the Democrats had to do was represent Working Americans, but no, they have to analyze and mix in their chic issues to figure out how they can compromise and sacrifice votes to keep Corporate America at the top of everything.

After a year of seeing what Obama and the Democrats are all about... In 2010 and 2012, expect to be scratching your head trying to figure out why people would vote against their alleged best interests. So after being shoved to the right hard, we are clinging to the middle (actually still to the right) now, only to get another shove to the right. But Hell, that's okay, because it's taking a broad view, instead of trading votes for chic issues.

Oh, and what I've heard from new Democratic voters in Red States is that there is no difference, who is running things, because nobody represents the people... Only Corporate America.

[laughingliberal]

28. Not sure I agree entirely but, nevertheless, Bush' election (sic) was hardly a call for a push to

the right. Didn't stop him from going there at warp speed.

[spotbird]

12. Insurance companies love it

although they have to pretend otherwise in public.

[blondeatlast]

13. That means only those who don't vote like it? Makes sense, actually. Still, what a dumbshit. nt

[tomm2thumbs]

14. That would make quadrupling taxes a great idea - let's go Dick - propose THAT!

afterall, it would be universally hated

[TheWebHead]

15. he's correct

if the ideological extremes on the left and right both dislike the bill for different reasons, then it is more likely to stand the test of time in the event Republicans gain control of power again.

[Zodiak]

18. That is pseudo-logic

It looks like logic on it's face, but really it is a thought that replaces actual thinking about the situation at hand.

What you fail to take into consideration is the the Republicans hate the bill because it is their strategy to say "no" to everything, no matter how reasonable. Even conservadem Leiberman has stated that he is doing what he is doing to hurt the liberals, and we know the Republicans literally want to hurt Obama.

Take this example:

You want to sell your house, and put it on the market for $100,000. A reasonable price $50,000 lower than book value....you want to sell this house quickly and so this is the "floor" you imagined the house price being. After all, you want to be "honest" about what price you are willing to accept.

A buyer calls, says he is the only buyer in town. According to him, you either sell it to this guy or you do not sell the house.

So you open negotiations with him, using your "reasonably minded" spouse who has been with you for years to give you the signal when you might have bargained away too much.

The guy shows up and says $100,000 is too high, so you change your offer to $70,000. Your spouse frowns, but concedes that you really need to sell this house.

"Not good enough" the stranger says.

"OK, how about $50,000? Your spouse nearly swoons, but there is no way you can pay property taxes this year, so your spouse, through some tears, nods assent.

"Not good enough" the stranger says.

"How about $30,000"

Not good enough

"How about $15000?"

Not good enough

"10?"

"Nope"

Meanwhile, your spouse is red faced angry....watching you bargain all of your equity away to someone who clearly has no interest in a fair deal.

You dismiss your spouse at this point, REALLY wanting to sell this house. Now that is all that matters...since you cannot afford the property taxes. You tell your spouse he/she is being "childish" and "irrational", and the spouse storms off, perhaps to file divorce papers.

The stranger still does not look happy, but he shrugs his shoulders, tells you you drive a hard bargain, and accepts the $10,000 price.

At this point, you take the deal because after all....both sides of the argument seem unhappy, so it MUST be a fair deal.

Meanwhile, the stranger pays you your $10,000 and you say goodbye to your home and your marriage.

The next week, you find that the stranger burned your house down intentionally, and salted the earth on your former home. Turns out that he was hired by your high school sweetheart to not buy your house, but DESTROY YOUR LIFE.



You wanna know why this hypothetical scenario works out this way? Because you didn't think about how the price will affect anything but the deal at hand, and you used unhappiness of both sides as a barometer not even considering that one side went into this negotiation specifically with the intent to harm you.

If you had thought for one second that there is a price too low for your house and that not all parties in a negotiation are there to play fair, you might have just waited a little longer and sold the house to someone who really wanted to live there.

But now you are screwed......because pseudo-logic is not thinking.

[alfredo]

19. If it was a newspaper, I'd agree.

[soupkitchen]

22. representation without intellectual taxation

[laughingliberal]

23. Yeah, I wondered how long it would take before one of them trotted that out

If the left hates it and the right hates it, it must be a centrist bill. The right wing public hates it cause they think its a big government takeover. The Republican legislators had it cause they don't want the President to get anything through that he might, possibly, be able to claim victory for. The left hates it cause it's a bad bill that enshrines and codifies the current for profit system that ruined health care in this country to begin with.

The problem with being willing to piss off both sides is the opposition party will come out and vote. The Democrats will stay home. And before that gets flamed, I don't mean me. I mean those guys out there who spend their days somewhere besides political message boards. All they know is they haven't seen much to get them off the couch to go vote. They're driving home tired after work thinking it doesn't matter whose in charge. All the lists in the world with Obama's accomplishments on a message board aren't going to be seen by those people. They are waiting to see a change in their lives or hear an idea that makes some difference in their lives. We all know that Democratic victories hinge on turnout and Democratic voters are notorious for not turning out. Something has got to happen between now and November to excite our voters enough to make it worth their while.

[ThomWV]

25. Well, I hate it too, is that also evidence of its superior character?