Dean says the current bill allows insurance to get really unaffordable for the elderly

[madfloridian]

That was said on Meet the Press today according to the Huffington Post Sunday talk thread. I have not watched it yet.

First thing I saw when I got to DU this morning was joy and happiness that Dean had somehow "sold out" and "walked it back"

Why would this forum be joyful at that when the elderly are going to be hurt apparently along with other age groups?

Here is more from there, doesn't sound like selling out to me.

He says that "over the past week" there were some improvements to the bill, but it's "still got a long way to go." But Dean says the current bill allows insurance to get really unaffordable for the elderly. He predicts that the current bill will pit the government against the insurance industry, forever, whenever the govenment wants to control health care costs. He goes on to point out that insurance industry stocks took off last week - and this is the best sign you can possibly have, America, that you are about to get jacked where health care is concerned.

Would Dean stand by his contention to not vote for the Senate bill? Dean says he wouldn't vote for it, no. But, he says the House bill is stronger and a strong bill that he could vote for might emerge from conference committee. He laments the fact that the White House doesn't seem to passionately want a public option. "The elimination of the public option is a real sticking point."

Dean is very substantive, pointing out that what we are likely to do is akin to the system in Switzerland or Holland, but without the strong regulatory hand those countries place on their private insurance companies. Gregory don't want to hear about interesting facts on comparative health care systems! He wants to get Dean's reaction to a single snarky line that Alternate Universe President John McCain said!

TV Sound off

Why are there posts celebrating that the elderly are going to be treated badly and have health care go out of sight for them?

Why are we cheering a bill that is harmful?

[saltpoint]

1. The good Doctor Dean is edging precariously farther out on the

unstable tree branch.

Be careful, Howard. In the leaves below are the crippled remains of any number of failed challengers.

[ananda]

2. The truth is stable.

It just is what it is.

[saltpoint]

7. Cynthia McKinney and Ralph Nader thought they were dealing in truths

too but they are among those fallen from the same branch.

[madfloridian]

12. I do not consider the 3 of them equals.

For many reasons that I will not list.

[saltpoint]

15. Point taken.

Dean's public posture in recent days is in opposition to the president.

I assert that that is a precarious balancing on a branch that has claimed many a doubter.

[madfloridian]

21. He has already lost any role in this party's leadership.

I gather he thinks he has nothing to lose.

[saltpoint]

24. Possible. I myself think he should have been offered a Cabinet

spot, and an influential one, was surprised that he was not, and wonder what's behind that story.

In any case he is on the media making enemies in the White House these last several days.

I am suggesting that that branch is not a good one to walk out too far on.

[madfloridian]

25. He has always been considered their enemy.

I guess I am glad someone pointed out some of the bad things in this bill because I was not aware of many of them.

He is their enemy anyway. Even when he is silent.

[saltpoint]

32. Is that true, though? Was it not Dean's 50-state strategy that mounted

the full-court press that won us states like Indiana and North Carolina?

It isn't my perception that Dean himself would think of himself as an enemy of the White House.

[madfloridian]

33. No, they do not consider he helped win.

Credit is given to Rahm.

[saltpoint]

38. Well, my hunch is that you and I feel that Dean's full-court press

was long overdue and very effective.

Unless there is bad blood afloat between the two camps it would have been my thought to put Dean in a strong Cabinet post.

[flamingdem]

39. ditto! Nader is no Dean nt

[QC]

3. Why celebrate? Because our team won! And Obama will look sooooo dreeeeeeeeamy

at the signing ceremony!

Take that, ugly Republicans!

We're Number 1!

We're Number 1!

We're Number 1!

We're Number 1!

We're Number 1!

We're Number 1!

We're Number 1!

We're Number 1!

GO TEAM!

[DJ13]

4. +11

:kick:

[xchrom]

10. +1

[ProgressIn2008]

11. +1. Sigh.

[phasma ex machina]

16. .

[QC]

19. !

[dkf]

30. Oh god I feel like this poor doggie.

[golddigger]

20. +1

:kick:

[SammyWinstonJack]

40. .

:evilgrin: :thumbsup:

[HughMoran]

5. straw man

nobody is celebrating bad treatment of old people. nobody.

[madfloridian]

18. No, not the way I worded it. Read it again.

Please stop this.

[HughMoran]

23. I can't stop pointing out the truth

"Why are there posts celebrating that the elderly are going to be treated badly and have health care go out of sight for them?"

straw man.

[dflprincess]

6. According the Minneapolis Star Tribune this morning

by 2019 there will still be 23 million uninsured. (This was also mentioned in the New York Times, but I didn't bother to look for that link).

http://www.startribune.com/business/79720077.html?elr=KArksUUUoDEy3LGDiO7aiU

No estimate was given on how many of us will be underinsured by then but I imagine that number will continue to grow.

This bill is a disaster for the middle class. It does nothing to help us access care or stop medical bankruptcies.

Congress & Obama should have been forced to watch "Sicko" again and again until the message sunk in that "coverage" does not equal care. I don't know if they're all stupid or just dishonest.

[inna]

27. they're not stupid. They're dishonest and corrupt. nt

[eleny]

8. I'm terribly worried about this aspect

I expected to pay some more so that many more could get health care. But I never expected to be thrown over a barrel.

I so appreciate that Howard Dean talked about this aspect of the Senate bill on MTP today. Maybe keeping this in the public's mind will help get the bill amended in conference. But I don't have much "hope" that it will happen.

K&R

[dana_b]

9. I haven't seen those posts yet

but I have no idea. The eldery cannot give anymore. The poor cannot give anymore. The middle class cannot give anymore. Hmmm... who does that leave??

[SammyWinstonJack]

42. The rich who can afford health care, that's who and they don't like to pay for anyone else, period!

Selfish and self-absorbed, greed pigs who feel entitled and apparently exist in a vacuum.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

13. For "elderly" I would substitute - anyone over forty

People between the ages of forty and 65( when Medicare finally gets kicked in) will be among the most screwed with this bill.

They will get "age-rated" 3 to 4 times the standard premium.

The people getting the screwing over are the previously uninsured, which purportedly this bill was supposed to help. No one is un-insured by choice in my opinion. These folks always knew they were walking a tightrope over an abyss. But now they will be FORCED to buy coverage they may not be able to afford and fined if they don't.

There are people in this age range who do not have insurance by "choice" if you can call it that, becuase it costs too damn much, the out-of pockets are too high, and the deductables are too high. They have been taking a calculated risk and trying to practically self-insure themselves and hope and pray they don't get hit with a major catastrophic illness. The odds in their favor dwindle with every passing year. If they are middle aged self-employed professionals earning a decent income, I think they will be hit with a ton of bricks under this plan.

[madfloridian]

41. Good points

:hi:

[AzDar]

14. This bill passes = We are screwn.

[phasma ex machina]

17. "screwn" LOL

:rofl:

[tularetom]

22. "...unaffordable for the elderly"? WTF?

One item that was agreed upon by virtually everybody involved in this debate was that Medicare was wonderful and nobody wanted to mess with it, even those who had been bad mouthing it for decades as "socialized medicine". As far as I understand, this bill doesn't touch Medicare in any way.

So how does this bill make health care unaffordable for the elderly?

[grasswire]

26. I can see two possible ways

1. If Medicare coverage is shrunk again so that less is paid out on claims and the co-pay grows.

2. Currently, Medicare does not pay everything. I hope you know that. So many many people have to buy supplementals from insurers. The cost of those plans could grow exponentially. Right now my aunt pays $182/month for her BCBS Medigap plan. She would not be able to pay more -- it's a stretch right now.

[tularetom]

51. I've been on Medicare for three years

and at the end of 2007 we got a notice from Social Security that our part B premiums were being increased by $200 per month because of means testing. I have a supplement as part of my retirement plan that is 100% paid by my employer (I still have to pick up the tab for my wife (roughly $225).

I have had no occasion to make any claims against either medicare or my supplemental policy until recently when I had some eye surgery. The only expense I was left with was the copays on the prescription medication I used.

For $625 per month I have no complaints about my coverage. I could even afford a bit more if it meant others were getting some better care at no additional expense.

[tularetom]

52. Oops - dupe

Never mind.

[madfloridian]

28. I did not see the interview yet. That is a quote from another site

that every Sunday keeps track of the Sunday shows.

However, they are in the process of cutting Medicare benefits. In one breath they say only Medicare Advantage, in the next they say Medicare.

I think it might refer to those under 65, not sure.

[madfloridian]

49. One way it touches Medicare...payments to doctors.

Patients have to pay the other 20% unless under supplement or advantage plan.

http://www.medpagetoday.com/PublicHealthPolicy/Washington-Watch/17621

"WASHINGTON -- The Senate today voted to postpone major cuts in Medicare payments to physicians that were scheduled to go into effect Jan. 1, 2010, in a early vote.

The measure was part of a fiscal 2010 defense appropriations bill, which passed 88-10 after Democrats and their allies broke a Republican filibuster aimed at delaying action on its healthcare reform bill.

Already approved by the house, the legislation would postpone the cuts from taking effect until March 1, 2010.

The House passed a bill last month that would repeal the flawed sustainable growth rate (SGR) formula, which is used to calculate Medicare reimbursements for physicians, and replace it with a new formula.

But the Senate failed to move beyond a procedural vote on a similar bill, and it's unlikely the Senate will enact any permanent fix before the New Year, when a 21% cut in physician reimbursement was scheduled to take effect."

[madfloridian]

50. More:

http://birmingham.bizjournals.com/birmingham/stories/2009/12/21/story6.html?jst=pn_pn_lk

The Senate voted yesterday to give two months before the 21% cuts.

"Local cardiovascular practices are bracing for severe revenue shocks if Medicare cuts its reimbursements in January.

Cardiovascular practices will have their Medicare reimbursement rates cut up to 40 percent for tests and procedures performed outside hospitals unless legislation to avert the cuts is passed before 2010.

In response to the cuts, some Birmingham-area cardiologists plan to cut operation hours in satellite clinics and put expansion projects on hold.

Cardiologists: Medicare cuts may force practices to close"

Waiting till the last minute as doctors were preparing to shut down care?

This is a Democratic senate...isn't it?

[Skidmore]

29. Big Money and Big Bidness cull the herd.

[madfloridian]

31. And all it took to finally get it through...was an anti-women's rights part.

It's amazing.

[madfloridian]

34. "Dean: 'We're Going To Have A 30-Year Battle With The Insurance Industry'

"Dean: 'We're Going To Have A 30-Year Battle With The Insurance Industry'
Appearing on Meet The Press, former DNC chairman Howard Dean predicted long-term problems for a health care bill without a public option: "We have committed--in this last week of unseemly scrambling for votes, we have committed to go down a path in this country where private insurance will be the way that we achieve universal health care. That means we're going to have a 30-year battle with the insurance industry every time when we try to control costs and try to get them do things. It is not a coincidence, David Gregory, that insurance company stocks, health insurance company stocks, hit a 52-year high on Friday. So they must know something that the rest of us don't."

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/12/axelrod-calling-liberal-opponents-insane-was-probably-an-unfortunate-choice-of-words.php#more

[madfloridian]

48. "in this last week of unseemly scrambling for votes"

Well said, Dr. Dean.

Yes, indeed there has been an "unseemly scrambling" for votes.

[eilen]

35. I wonder if they will offer a "Logan's Run Rider"

In which if I agree to self destruct at age 55, they will agree to pay 100% of my current health care needs (dental and vision-- after all, harvesting organs is only profitable if they are healthy). Of course, bills guaranteeing the proceeds of the sale of said organs be awarded to heirs however, the insurance lobby will argue that their investment in said organs outweighs the ownership of the donor.

Let's see, government wins (no SS or Medicare payouts, ins co. wins-- easy gamble that I will remain somewhat healthy until 55. And the next generation gets another job opening and housing opportunity. Win Win for them anyway.

Then they can create the "Eskimo Ice Float" loophole which allows 55 and up to be exiled to another country, or be a country-less expat if they can survive by their wits and be allowed to live. Which would be a great bonus if you happen to hit 55 without a chronic illness. If you are photogenic and had plenty of discretionary income to spend on plastic surgery, botox, and gym memberships, you might be able to parlay this loophole into a sweet reality show contract.

"The Real Housewives of the Mountain"
"Desert Survivor"-- middle managers on one team, broken down blue collars on the other"
"Pirates in Houseboats"
"Road Rules"-- aging nomads in RV's--storming the Mexican border!!

The wealthy of course, will have no need for these riders. However, to keep their security up, Florida will lead the nation in gated community security devices. New hospitals will be built within, only members need admit!

[texanwitch]

46. I have been telling people that the powers that be are trying to kill off people.

Like you said anyone over 50 or 55 go die.

We used you all your working life so go die.

You people over 50 you cost us money so go die.

You can't fight in wars or in case of women have babies so go die.

I won't die so easy.

[laughingliberal]

36. but...but... if he wants it to go to conference...he's VOTING FOR it...

If it's so bad, why would he vote FOR it. Must not be that bad of a bill. :sarcasm:



Recap of the talking points of those who thought Dean walked his position back.

[madfloridian]

37. Thanks. :)

:hi:

[Jamastiene]

43. I'm with Dean. I sure HOPE they CHANGE this bill

at least as far as the mandate and the harm this could do to the elderly...another huge part of the Democratic base. That is the LEAST they could do.

[havocmom]

44. Then we need the federal goverment to ball up and pass assisted suicide legislation

If one is frail, looking to the end, unable to afford decent care to make it comfortable, the Congress that stood in the way of real help should make end of life help a choice that is available to people in all states.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

45. Soylent Green.......

[havocmom]

47. At some point, a fast trip to becoming meatloaf is better than slow, painful end

But you did make the obvious connection ;)

[Vidar]

53. K&R.