Wars Do Not Stop...

[CaliforniaPeggy]

Because the people in charge just simply do not care that our loved ones die.

They really don't.

Death, to them, is a necessary if unfortunate byproduct, of winning.

Winning is all that counts.

Besides getting rich, of course.

They can fuss all they like about how awful it is that our young men and women die, but when you get right down to it, it doesn't matter.

It's fucking awful, and I hate it.

x(

[stray cat]

1. How many of us are really suffering the loss of a loved one in Iraq or Afghanistan?

None of my relatives or friends have been sent over to either yet. As long as its abstract to most in the US not much will change - if the draft were bought back then people would care because they would have to actually sacrifice. Even if taxes were raised to pay for the war as it goes it would make an impact.

[NJmaverick]

3. How many people were unaffected by 911? Does that mean that attack was abstract to?

[Bigmack]

20. It is abstract to most Americans... in fact,

for many, it's just a rallying cry... totally unconnected to any actual event.

[LWolf]

12. I had a loved one

in Iraq...on 3 tours. Finally discharged last summer.

He's a mess. The army classifies him as disabled (physically.) He is a mental/emotional wreck.

It's not abstract to me, and it never was.

I'm a teacher. I look at my students and know that if it doesn't end, some will spend their lives on this bullshit.

It's not abstract.

[readmoreoften]

13. I am.

But more often I see the suffering of people coming back and the suffering of those being forced to return even though they are injured (just not "injured enough...")

[NJmaverick]

2. Did you lose anyone on 911 or was that not real to you?

Self defense is an unfortunate fact of life

[leftstreet]

4. 'Self defense?'

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[NJmaverick]

6. mindless laughter doesn't dispute my point, but you really had nothing else

so laugh away

[leftstreet]

8. Sorry, I was distracted trying to keep Al-Qaeda out of my yard

Now, what were you saying?

:eyes:

[NJmaverick]

9. I was a first responder to 911, and I have friends that lost friends and family

unlike you 911 wasn't just something seen on TV

[debbierlus]

10. You don't understand. The expansion of the war in Afghanistan isn't about 911.

It is about control of oil and a covert war in Pakistan.

There are estimated to be 100 Al Queda left in Afghanistan.

You don't send 30,000 troops to fight 100 people.

It is an INSULT to the memory of the people who died on 9/11 to justify unethical war and killing in their name.

[NJmaverick]

15. oh bull, show proof knock off the baseless accusations

[Bigmack]

21. Wait.. wait...

the Afghan War must be about something, then.

Tell me what we are there for.

The numbers are: less than 20,000 Taliban fighters, less than 100 Al Qaeda. We have 100,000 troops and 100,000 "contractors". We have total control of the air, endless supplies, and the only advanced weapons in the area. (well, maybe not so "advanced" considering 40% of casualties from the drones are civilians)

And we've been there for 8 years.

And we've not caught OBL.

Oh... one last thing....at least 857 members of the U.S. military had died in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Uzbekistan as a result of the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan in late 2001.

So - my questions are: 1) Why are we there? and 2) How many US deaths should we be willing to accept?

[readmoreoften]

17. So was my cousin. And he's about to be send to the Middle East to play roulette for the 3rd time.

And he wanted this nonsense to end after Tour 1.

You like this war so much? You have first responder abilities? STFU and get over there. Don't give us the "too old" "flat feet" bullshit. They're taking people in their 60s; they're taking people with injuries; they'll take almost anyone. They'll certainly take someone who can spit out posts on "intellectual dishonesty"--I'm sure there's an opening for you.

Put up or shut up.

[NJmaverick]

18. I risked by life on 911 and I don't have a problem doing it again

unfortnately I am to old and the lack a cartilage in my knees would make getting through training camp impossible, but feel free to prop up a bad position with sort of BS challenge

[CaliforniaPeggy]

19. I did not lose anyone on 9/11...

There is a place for self defense, to be sure.

Most wars are not fought for that.

And that war was conducted badly, with our troops fighting the wrong people, in the wrong place, for exactly the wrong sort of thing: oil.

[northernlights]

30. um...when did Iraqattack us?

did I miss something? Because the last I remember, 911 was some terrorists from Saudi Arabia and Yemen. Besides, I thought our illegal attack on Iraq was about weapons of mass destruction. Or distraction. Or something like that. And there was no imminent threat from Iraq...or even a long term threat. So it was about bringing freedom to the people of Iraq. At least, the ones that haven't yet died as a result of our setting them free. Or was it about freeing their souls from the earthly bounds of their bodies?

On the other hand, there was always the terrorist attack in Oklahoma City. Maybe we should have bombed the hell out of wherever Timothy McVeigh came from in order to defend ourselves from those terrorists too?

:eyes:

[Arctic Dave]

31. So I take it you are volunteering your famy to eat a 500# bomb when Iraq gets it's revenge?

If not, you can stfu with your 911 crybaby shit.

[leftstreet]

5. K&R

[Goldstein1984]

7. 5% of the world's population doing 50% of its military spending

is not self defense.

Iraq was not self defense.

Killing civilians isn't self defense.

What you are witnessing is Disaster Capitalism--making money out of catastrophe.

Long live the empire.

[valerief]

11. We are fodder, nothing more. nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. Erect bogeyman, wave flag, give money to the Pentagon, send in the cannon-fodder. Works every time.

“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy.” - Mohandas K. Gandhi

[Octafish]

16. That's it, exactly.

War is Death.

We the People don't want it.

So why, in a democracy, do we still have two wars going --
with the threat of a couple of more starting any day, now?

[lunatica]

22. I hate it with all my heart too

They have us convinced war is part of human nature. If it were so then no one would suffer from depression and PTSD and people wouldn't be traumatized and turned into brutes. The child soldiers of Africa would be the most normal grown ups on the planet. Millions of soldiers wouldn't come home and never feel the urge to kill again if it wer part of who we are.

Wars are all started by people who would profit from them, and they are always carried out by the population who is convinced they are the warmongers.

I hate war. It's one of the biggest lies about what constitutes human nature. It is an unnatural ugly product of psychopathic self serving leaders who just want to have power for no other reason that to have power over others.

[grantcart]

23. Wars never stop only the fighting does

I have been using that saying for 30 years peggy

[CaliforniaPeggy]

24. I'm not sure I understand that particular saying...

But I am sure you can explain it to me, can't you?

TIA...

[grantcart]

25. After the battles have gone and the armies are in the barracks the scars

are left in the civilians, soldiers, refugees and those scars never end.


In some cases they become mythologized into a national psychic and are replayed for generations.


It took the US atleast 100 years to outlive the civil war and some still carry the torch today.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

28. Oh, of course.

Thanks!

[WT Fuheck]

26. They don't even want to "win."

They just want it to go on and on and on.

[dysfunctional press]

27. as long as people keep volunteering to fight them...

wars will be with us.
they're apparently very profitable.

[EFerrari]

29. They don't care about winning, either. They care about profit and spin.

There is no winning unless you're Haliburton or Blackwater or DyneCorp.

[bahrbearian]

32. Bring back the Draft