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It feels like a battering ram was used on "the left" this week for questioning policy.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 08:18 PM
Original message
It feels like a battering ram was used on "the left" this week for questioning policy.
I feel bruised and sore and my heart feels heavy over the fact that all the resources of the administration were rallied in defense of the health care bill....used to discredit and put down those who spoke out.

In effect they targeted one man, but in pitting resources like that against their own.. they sent a loud and clear message what happens when one crosses the Senate leaders and the WH. I did not see it so much if we questioned the House bill. But there appears to be something hallowed and sacred about the Senate bill.

I see there is even a new talking point making the rounds. That those of us who don't support the health care reform unquestioningly do not "care about the poor." I don't know where that started, but it is on a par with the 2003 use of the word "fringe activists", and 2005's term "noisy activists."

I know the bill will pass. It is inevitable. But from all we can tell from all sources it gives huge additional power to the insurance companies. Yet it is sacrilege to question.

Something is wrong with that kind of thing happening. I let my hubby read some of the posts here that ridicule those who want to see change in the bill. He said, oh, my...sounds like our local Democrats were turned loose there. Maybe that is why I am passionate about getting it right now that we have a huge majority.

Where we live we are almost shunned by the party leaders because we differ with them on vital issues.

The accusations flying over Obama haters are just as bad as the Hillary haters that people were called here last year. How did this happen?

We have seen this when other issues have come up this year, not just health care. Each time traditonal Democratic values have come up for discussion, the same thing happens. We are told we are not supporting the president, that we are hurting the party.

Have you noticed what happened to the Republican party when they started allowing no criticism of George W. Bush? They were taken over by the religious right, the teabaggers, the Glenn Becks and Sarah Palins.

These are the thing I honestly believe have seen too much compromise this year.

I firmly believe in full and equal rights in every way for women and for gays. There should be no lines drawn, saying this is okay but that is not. We all get equal rights.

Odd, but that makes me a purist in this Democratic party. Abortion is really only available now to women with good financial resources. DADT and DOMA have not yet gone away. Many of our Democrats are also willing to sell out birth control to please the extreme religious right.

I believe in a real public education. Not one run by private corporations. Our party made its decision on this with the president's appointment to the DOE. He is a powerful man, that Arne Duncan. He has a lot of money, a lot of it...and he is using it to bribe school districts to do it his way. Teachers have been treated badly.

I do not believe it is honest and moral to judge children and teachers on the results of one test, written in secret and graded in secret...totally unregulated.

I believe in unions. I believe that unions gave us the strong middle class we had for a long time but which we no longer have because both parties have been union busting with all their trade deals to make other countries happy.

I believe strongly in separation of church and state. Our party does not seem to share my passion on this. They have strengthened the faith-based initiatives begun by Bush. Of the 25 members, 19 are anti-choice...and they were chosen by our party. So they knew and did not care.

I believe that Catholic bishops should not be helping Democrats write bills that are anti-woman in nature.

I believe that we should have used our majority to get a powerful health care reform bill. We did not. We catered and pandered to the right, and our party ignored the progressives and liberals entirely. They let a small minority control the agenda.

I believe strongly that when a huge uprising of purists, liberals, progressives, independents, and others gave a president and congress a resounding majority....they must use that majority for the common good. Or they will lose it.


The really big question mark should have popped up for everyone when Bill Nelson got his way about restricting abortion payments. We all know it is a gift to the religious community, yet we are again accepting.

I know the bill will pass, maybe the House will be given an opportunity to fix it up a little. But then Nelson is threatening filibuster if the House changes the bill.

That is if Lieberman doesn't back down first.





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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. I see the unreccers/don't question authority people are here. nt
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Yes, they are, just as are the unreccers/hate everyone in power
people. It's DU. All aspects of Democratic politics are represented. Sorry if that offends your sensibilities.

However, I didn't unrec this thread. I commented in it, instead.
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
26. I don't hate everyone in power - I question everyone in power.
And distrust them when they object.
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Dragonfli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. As We All Should!!! /nt
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Well said, tbyg52.
:thumbsup:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #26
34. Amen. I never used to do that.
But the Iraq war cave in got me started. Then the bankruptcy bill, the FISA bill with the retroactive immunity for the telecoms. Now I keep questioning.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #26
49. Notice how some personalities sail right past that essential, crucial difference?
Speaks volumes
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #26
50. I trust politicians about as far as I can throw them.
That says it all for me.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #50
70. How far DO you throw them?
And what do you aim them at?
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #70
76. I'm only 5'1'', how far do you think? ;)
If I was actually able to throw one I would aim for a toss across the Grand Canyon. :P
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #76
81. Short people do sometimes have tremendous upper body strength
You could probably manage a Canyon Throw.
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #81
84. Wouldn't that be awesome. :D
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #84
85. If you go into training right now, you've got a shot.
n/t.
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Blasphemer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #26
86. Amen... nt
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
69. Just so you know, what offends my sensibilities
is that we live in a society where an industry that was charged with the health care of its citizens, cynically allowed hundreds of thousands of them to die, because it was not profitable to keep them alive. That our government did nothing to remind them of their obligations having given them the responsibility along with the opportunity to make a decent living fulfilling that obligation.

Rather than being grateful and proud of being trusted with this charge and the rewards of both serving their fellow citizens and the considerable financial rewards, greeed overtook them, leaving many of their fellow citizens relegated to the status of third world country residents.

In any sensible society, such criminal neglect and betrayal of trust would not go unpunished. My sensibilities were hugely offended by this.

But now, they are off the charts as we have watched this same failed industry, not punished, not even admonished mildly, but hugely rewarded, financially, and once again entrusted with the lives of their fellow citizens.

I apologize for being unable to spare your offended sensibilities. I'm not a fan of greed, especially the kind that causes harm to other people. And I'm not a fan of 'moving forward and ignoring egregious behavior without even a slap on the wrist whether they be torturers, war criminals or private industries that cause harm to others. I can live with myself without your approval, or Rahm's for that matter.
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texanwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. I feel the same.
I didn't vote for this.

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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
4. look how many DUers did the same
utterly fucking DISGUSTING
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KakistocracyHater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
5. yeah, they really are the Other Right, & yes they call all bc abortion & it'll
get worse. Since you are far more acceptable than me(always have been a misfit), perhaps you can consider birth control & 'octo-mom' alternatives to get the message to what's left of the Left, the people NOT in power. I read talk2action a lot, & don't forget the next target is "no votes for women", only the head of household (a MAN) can vote. & Christian wife-spanking. I don't want to live like it's 1 A.D.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
6. I got hate mail in my DU inbox
Classy Cheerleaders, fucking classy.

:rofl:
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. You should post it.
I've gotten some funny stuff. I want to read yours though for the lulz.

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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. The newest one is a class act
I've posted my fan mail before only to get it locked. I respect the Mods and the rules.
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pecwae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #6
45. It should be sent to Skinner.
That's bullshit and the senders know it.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
7. As both Parties embrace the Religious Right, they start to resemble belief systems
It's really weird and not something I saw previous to, I'd say, Reaganesque times.

They're modeling their (dumbass, pro-corporate, anti-working class) 'platforms' on religious belief systems. And their followers are encouraged to respond in kind.

K&R

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Yes, the new stronger embrace of religion is scary and strange.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
68. Right wing religious movement is America is fake . . . as fake and as well financed . ..
Edited on Mon Dec-21-09 04:17 PM by defendandprotect
as their FreedomWorks "teabaggers" . . .

It's an effort to prop up authority -- patriarchy -- organized patriarchal religion is a long

time political tool!! And still being used successfully to subdue citizens.

We need to see more challenge to this religious farce --

We are subsidizing the Vatican with tax payer $$$ for cripes sake!!!???



Look at just the Papal Bulls last week or so by the Catholic Bishops . . . it's an

end run around their own members -- the majority of Catholics support government run health

care . . . over 70% ... AND they want contraception and ABORTION to be covered!!!

This is not evidently something you're going to hear from the idiot box?

But, Pelosi gave assistance to this religious ploy --

Just as many Catholic women have abortions as any other women -- and the Catholic Church

wants its stopped -- they need to regain control over human sexuality and reproduction and women!



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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
9. “The shepherd always tries to persuade the sheep that their interests and his own are the same.”
Marie Beyle

Which reflects how some here view "The Party" and the leaders. A sort of "Father Knows Best" attitude of subservience.
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TorchTheWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
10. lockstepping - not just for Repubs
Party loyalist Dems here look just as stupid and saying the same stupid crap party loyalist Repubs do and we always point and laugh at Freepers for that stupidity. Apparently the same stupidity is warranted for Dems.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #10
59. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
11. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. SO you are calling us Palin Democrats?
that is new low.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Hey I got called a PUMA yesterday
and I was a Team Leader in the primary.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Best to ignore it.
Really, it's not worth your time. You made a long, well-thought out post with meaningful content. S/he gave an empty one-line snarky reply. It doesn't deserve your attention.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. Don't worry, it's just LoZo trolling, as always.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #25
62. holy crap.... that person is still here?
shit, I would have been banned by now for some of the crap that person says to people.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. The class of Obama's strongest supporters never ceases to amaze me
and proves the point of the OP.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Joe Bageant asks a poor rural disabled white woman about health care
http://www.counterpunch.org/bageant09092004.html

The truth is that Dottie would vote for any candidate, black, white, crippled blind or crazy, that she thought would actually help her. I know because I have asked her if she would vote for a president who wanted a nationalized health care program?" "Vote for him? I'd go down on him!" Voter approval doesn't get much stronger than that.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
71. I got called Allentown's cheerleader yesterday.
As much of an honor that would be - I ain't nobody's cheerleader! LOL!
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #11
24. "Once you imply that Democrats are the same as Republicans, you toss your credibility."
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
16. Keep your head up, Mad.
We are the party, not them.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
18. Right. Just like the WTO protesters in 1999 "didn't care about the poor"
Apparently those unheralded people in poor coutnries years before 1999 who got killed or maimed protesting "free" trade don't count.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
21. It says something in the DU rules about how you gotta be tough
Everyone gets called names here.
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
22. Another thing I resent are the ones claiming they are paying MY
Edited on Sun Dec-20-09 08:59 PM by Jamastiene
fucking health care costs. It's called Self-Pay. I pay my own goddamn health care costs. Quit using the poor as cannon fodder to support corporate welfare. Don't pretend to give a shit about the poor, because we know better. We've known better for years. It is the REALITY we LIVE.

No fucking wonder the Republicans are so quiet lately. This is just the anti-poor corporate welfare they've always wanted.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #22
31. Word
I'm one of the poor too, and I bet I wind having to pay out of pocket for something I'll never be able to afford to use in order to line the pockets of the people above me.

But why should tomorrow be any different than today?
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
23. we are to old to put up with this shit
we are supposed to consul while the young fight the wars...
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Dragonfli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
27. I have been told to stay quiet (and locked for good measure) been insulted
because I appear to anger many here. I am a working man that watched his INSURED wife die due to lack of care and I am currently very ill myself, too much in debt to even think about treating it. I am reaching the point where I can barely work because of pain issues resulting from growths that are only going to get bigger, I had to reduce my hours and soon will have to reduce them more.

Do they really think I will shut up just because a few champagne liberals and DLC stooges feel it hurts their love fest for a con man? Do they really think that those of us (the ACTUAL working poor) they pretend to represent yet prefer to call names, don't notice when we are getting screwed? They have a hell of a way of trying to keep our support. My peers (other people that work for a living yet can't make ends meet) are not only noticing that we have been sold like cattle to corporations that take our money and still let us die, we are trying to figure out ways to cut budgets that no longer allow for new cloths or going to a movie once a month in order to pay the vig (poor tax) so we don't have to worry about the IRS taking whatever little remains.

A day of reckoning is coming, we the working people are not amused and do not have the cake that you wish us to eat.
To those that refuse to listen to me/us enjoy your DLC controlled parties coming accommodations in the wilderness for the next 20 years. It will be a vacation from office of your own choosing for selling out your working base and and forcing a health protection racket on us complete with a poor tax when we needed help instead. If the party would have helped us with our health problem instead of using it as an excuse to get $$$$ we would have kept you in office for a generation at least.

To the OP:
It has been a "fun" week I agree.
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. I hope you are right that "A day of reckoning is coming." nt
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #30
39. Ditto to that.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #27
35. yep nt
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juno jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #27
42. Not all that fun.
Edited on Mon Dec-21-09 01:13 AM by juno jones
But I guess we working folk know which side the butter's on now.
:hug:


I'm so tired about the 'poor' being discussed like we weren't even in the room. Smacks of hypocritical victorian-style philanthropy. It categorizes 'poor' as the other, not quite human and certainly not capable of conveying their own wants due to some unfortunate character/moral flaw. It's why we're poor doncha know?

They do this for our own good, children. :sarcasm:

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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #27
46. My income status fluctuates a lot, but I've been volunteering in my church's meal programs
and there are definitely more ex-middle class people coming in.

Our youth dinners are seeing more recently graduated students who can't find living wage jobs, group households of young people who are all able to find only part-time work, young parents with children, mostly pre-school children.

Do the people in the Beltway even SEE the poverty that is spreading all around them?

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Okota Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #27
65. Plain English
Bravo,Bravo,Bravo.
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Blasphemer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #27
87. I'm so sorry about your wife and yes, that day is coming...
They squandered the opportunity for greatness. Great men and women do not come along very often but we have seen many with the potential to be great fall prey to call of greed.
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mirrera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #27
90. Not speaking but agreeing.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
32. Make that "Ben" Nelson and abortion in the OP...I know better.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
33. There has been no critical word of Nelson or Lieberman
or Landrieu.

None.

The fact that this administration found it important to come out full blast against one man who questioned, thus seeing the message boards filled with the blasting toward the rest of us....will remain in my mind for a long long time.

I honestly thought things would be different this time.

They are not.
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StreetKnowledge Donating Member (921 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #33
73. Nope, they aren't. You have that one right.
If the DLC is what we get when we vote for the Democrats, why bother to support these corporate cocksuckers? Time to get a third party, or set up a primary challenger in 2012 to make an example out of Barack Obama, a message saying "THIS is why you listen to your base!"
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
36. Good post, mad nt
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whistler162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
37. I do so love people who continually walk into brick walls
complain about the bruises they receive because they continually walk into the brick wall!
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-20-09 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Another form of insult.
Thanks.

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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #37
43. No, we are continually *shoved* into brick walls. nt
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pecwae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #37
44. So, don't complain
or question and you won't get bruised? Got it! Of course, this is something I 'got' even before this insurance debacle.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
40. It's getting harder and harder to see the democratic part in the Democratic party. Not for
lack of Democrats wanting it, but for lack of being able to influence our elected Democrats once they get to D.C.

It's all about the "dead presidents". Those who have the deepest pockets get their way. The pockets of the working class have been getting shallower and lighter for years. And judging from what we are seeing now, it's unlikely that it will change anytime soon.

Great post, madflo. Don't give up the fight. Your voice is a strong and clear one.

Rec.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #40
53. How dare they not include a pre-existing clause for adults?
Did they think we would not notice?

http://healthcare.change.org/blog/view/7_features_in_the_new_filibuster-proof_senate_healthcare_bill

Head Scratchers

1. Pre-Exisiting Condition Exclusion: The legislation bars insurers immediately from denying coverage to children based on a pre-existing condition. However, they are still free to do it to adults until 2014. Besides being a blatant exception to immediate consumer protections, this one is a true head-scratcher. Except for expensive risk pools, adults in the individual insurance market with pre-existing conditions have nowhere to go until 2014. Yet the coverage mandate begins in the 2013 tax year. So what are folks supposed to do in 2013? Take out a second mortgage to pay for health plan coverage that won't cover their pre-existing conditions (the risk pool requires going bare for 6 months, activating a 12-month pre-exisiting condition coverage exclusion) or pay a fine, just because lawmakers wanted a better CBO score?

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #53
66. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
pundaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #40
54. Yes and only the vote can get better ones.
We need to defeat them in the primaries if we can, but work to get them out of office, whatever it takes, to make room for democratic Democrats. We see that the DLC will work against democratic Democrats, so they've left us no alternative.
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
41. K & R
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
47. It is sinister.
The administration is deploying its resources not only against the left, but in effect against the middle class, which the Senate healthcare bill will legally tether to the predatory insurance industry. You can welcome the expansion of Medicaid, for instance, while deploring the fact that this bill will force middle class folks to let big insurance gouge them.
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
48. Rec #100
My heart is heavy, too. I cannot come to terms with what is happening under a Dem administration.
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
51. K&R
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Wardoc Donating Member (204 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
52. It is strange. Loyal allies get crapped on. Lukewarm fairweather ones get wined and dined. I..
don't get it. I guess we are considered safe and so we can be used and abused at leisure.

I'm not going to be next year when they come around with empty wallets and faux smiles and pretty letters asking for my donation. No money for any of them in 2010. No vote. No canvassing. No volunteering. If I don't matter, then I won't be missed for that either. I won't even begin to consider changing my mind until 2011 at the earliest, and only then if I am given something for once by these users, payment in advance.
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n2doc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
55. Battering ram or battering Rahm? n/t
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tnlefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. Battering Rahm was my first thought as well.
Disgusting.
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Goldstein1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
56. Great OP--Well-written.
You, and a lot of others in this string, speak for me in this matter.

They demonize the Left in the party at their own peril.

My votes follow my principles; the party better do the same.

Both parties ARE the same in one very undemocratic respect--they are wholly owned subsidiaries of Wall Street.

Somewhere a little group of oligarchs are looking down from their Mount Olympus, chuckling over the entertainment the two-party system provides them.

We peasants are game pieces.
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
57. Then I guess you're very happy that you and the US Catholic Bishops have the same goal
to kill HRC. Fine bedfellows you make.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #57
61. There is no HCR Bill to kill. There is just a dangerous piece of trash
Edited on Mon Dec-21-09 01:53 PM by saracat
benefiting only the corporations and further depleting the poor and the Middle class that they"call" a Health Care Reform. It doesn't exist.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #57
72. Case in point, everyone.
"If you agree on an end result, you must therefore agree in every principle."

And then the word "bedfellows" gets thrown in for good measure.

Lame.
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
60. Lies paint us as wackos and dismiss us and children
And even coming from our own party that we supported. I'm done with them. 3rd party time for me. Maybe Nader was right.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
63. Lot's are with you Mad
keep posting...
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
64. K&R.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
67. IMO, Medicare and Social Security privatization will be next . . . and then abortion ...
The co-option of the Demcoratic Party by corpatism/fascism won't be complete

until the party is destroyed as a tool of any progressive influence or legislation.

In other words, until it is the pro-fascist sister to the Repug party.

As they began to say long ago --

"The Republicans are the express train to Auschwitz ...

The Democrats are the local train to Auschwitz -- ?


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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #67
83. That's what I'm expecting to see, too. And I fear it. nt
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EmeraldCityGrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
74. Chris Mathews has declared war on the Progressives.
He just had Darcy Burner on. She ran unsuccessfully against Dave Reichart twice. Loosely quoted, he remarked "ok, we'll use the new term progressives."
He then pulled his attack meme of pelleting her with questions and not giving her a chance to explain herself. When she suggested Leiberman had admitted
Obama didn't pursue him for his vote, he sarcastically suggested Leiberman, in her addled mind was a progressive.

Looks as if the lines are being drawn. Frankly, this is a good sign.

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Gandhi-
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
75. Actually, it feels like SOME on the left used a Battering Ram to bash HCR this week.
And to bash anyone who supports passing the bill.

Now, you didn't really think no one would respond to such ugly attacks, did you?

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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #75
78. How dare them-voters bashing a politician's bill?
Edited on Mon Dec-21-09 06:05 PM by Dr Fate
And good on those noble, hard-nosed politicians for fighting back!

Who says they have no spine- they are quite brave when they respond to those ugly attacks from voters in their own base.

We dont need politicians who attack conservatives & corporations- what we need is more politicians who are brave enough to attack voters who dare to disagree with them.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #78
79. Thanks for another spurious response.
If only the bashing had been accurate, and hadn't been aimed at those at DU who support passing this bill, despite the fact that most of us are disappointed. I am a single payer supporter, for example.

Cut the BS.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #79
92. I thought you were defending the so called "reform" & the politicians who were attacking voters...
Edited on Mon Dec-21-09 09:01 PM by Dr Fate
...but you indicate you were merely defending DUers who were defending HCR & said attacking politicians.

Good to know, but I see no need to retract or revise my comments.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
77. Turns out that "Chicago Style Politics" means bullying the left, not the GOP or corporations.
Edited on Mon Dec-21-09 06:00 PM by Dr Fate
Who says they have no spine?

They are quite brave & aggressive when opposing their own base, for instance.
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BlueJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
80. I agree with you and I must say: This is not my Father's Democratic Party.
This bill is a disgrace to every thinking Individual....and even more so to Women.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
82. Interesting.
This has had about 21 unrecs...from the Just recs page.

I find that shows a lot of division. Wish it could be solved, but I think truth now transcends party.

"General Discussion
It feels like a battering ram was used on "the left" this week for questioning policy.
187 recs : By madfloridian
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
88. The beatings will continue until morale improves.
We are so used to being shit on, when it only drizzles, we think we are having a good day.
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
89. The Senate's bill is indefensible...the House's bill on the other hand...
I want the conference committee to restore the Public Option or Medicare buy-in and tell the Senate to go get their collective heads examined. The Senate ain't democracy, it's a shameful collection of (fill in the blank).
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
91. I detest Nelson of NE.
As well as Lieberman. In fact my list of Dem Senators that I think suck is getting longer and longer.

Nelson should be hog tied and then de-balled. Throw 'em to the dogs.

Why does he hate women so much? Without control over our bodies and destinies, we will never have equality.

I'm sick of this crap.
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