It makes me sick to see many here turn on Bernie and Russ. Just pukable.

[cali]

While you sit back and gripe, Bernie's been fighting for access to healthcare for fucking decades. You may not agree with him but to accuse him of being bought is just disgusting. Same goes for Russ and others. Disagreeing with them is one thing, some of the comments I'm seeing is another.

:puke:

[el_bryanto]

1. Yep

But what are you going to do - we live in a society that has abandoned the concept of "honest disagreement." The Conservatoids abandoned it decades ago; increasingly liberals are abandoning it.

Let's face it, it's a real timesaver. I mean if Bernie does something we disagree with, rather than grappling with the uncertainty of differing opinions or, even worse, considering that we might be wrong, it's just easier to assume he's been corrupted.

Bryant

[tekisui]

2. I can't say a bad thing about Russ and Bernie.

They are among the best we've ever had in my lifetime. Whitehouse and Franken are very promising, as well. They did what they could.

[cali]

3. exactly.

these are not people who are in thrall to either the insurance companies or even the party.

[ROakes1019]

4. Bernie and Russ

What we see a lot of here on DU is knee-jerk reactions from people who don't really understand how the Congress works or how bills are gotten through. NOBODY gets everything he wants; compromise is the way it works. Bernie and Russ, and the other Progressives, understand that killing this bill will essentially kill the Dems in 2010. And it's not a terrible bill. It's flawed but that can be worked on. No work is possible on a dead bill.

Some DUers seem to be throwing temper tantrums. We are Liberals (or Progressives since the Repugs denigrated "liberal") because we are open-minded, not afraid to look at both sides of an issue, seeing things in gray and not in black and white, and basically not mean-spirited. Some posts here are mean-spirited and I say they don't come from true Liberals.

[MineralMan]

5. There does appear to be a lot of sentiment towards

throwing the baby out with the bathwater, doesn't there. Too bad.

[backscatter712]

6. K&R. Bernie's been an ass-kicker for our side for years. Disagree with him on this vote,

but he's no sellout - he genuinely believes that we'll be better off with this health care bill than without it. You're welcome to disagree with that assessment, but please don't attack Bernie Sanders' character (or Russ Feingold's, or Al Franken's, etc.)

[get the red out]

7. Absolutely!

It is sad to see Democrats posting to DU with the same kind of insane irrationality that Freepers and Teabaggers use. Sad, I really didn't think the loss of Bush to hate would create such a "hate vacuum".

[madrchsod]

8. "when i was a child i spoke as a child............."

[NNN0LHI]

9. There are no Democrats turning on Bernie and Russ. Thats a straw man

Its birthers, deathers, teabaggers and other assorted wackadoodles doing that here and you know it.

Don

[cali]

11. sorry. you are flat wrong.

[NNN0LHI]

19. Did Ronald Reagan have you convinced he was a Democrat for over 50 years too?

When it became so obvious he was full of shit he fessed up and put an R after his name. And that wasn't on an anonymous political chat site either. We could actually see him.

Think he is the only one like that?

Don

[Vidar]

10. I agree. Sanders & Feingold, unlike Obama, have established their credentials many times over.

[Forkboy]

12. Two of my faves, and yes, it's pretty sad.

[TreasonousBastard]

13. It's following a very disturbing trend-- various elements here...

seem to have no function but to whine, complain, and pass judgment upon pretty much everything.

[FLAprogressive]

14. I will never turn on them.....I think they're being coerced into voting for it.

[cali]

16. I don't. I think they believe it's better than killing it.

[blondeatlast]

15. +1 with a rec. nt

[laughingliberal]

17. Well, I disagree with them on this vote and always will but am not turning on them

That said I still think their voting records, overall, are indicative of their support for the people. So, I am not turning on them over 1 vote albeit one of the most important votes they will cast in my lifetime and, likely, theirs. I greatly respect Russ for coming out with the truth and trying to dispel the some persistent delusions among Democrats. Telling us this was the bill the president always wanted confirmed what many did not want to believe but had been seeing throughout the debate in which the president refused to participate in supporting his own plan for health care reform as laid out in his campaign. The truth is better even when it hurts and he gave us the gift of knowing what we are up against. The political pressure on all Democrats in the House and Senate to vote for this is enormous. They are being asked to prop up a president who is largely responsible for the fact that he needs propping up, now. I would imagine only a Democratic Senator who intends to retire before 2010 could muster the courage to go against this legislation at this point. And it is better for us, overall, for Sanders and Feingold to save their political careers in order to continue the fight to stop this warp speed march to the right we are now seeing in our own party.

[Laelth]

18. Bernie is not bought out. I would never accuse him of that.

I do believe, however, that his arm has been twisted ... MIGHTILY.

Kill the bill.

Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the answer to a failed health care system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.

:dem:

-Laelth