Stop blaming Obama for the problems in the HCR bill.

[Warren Stupidity]

This bill was held hostage by a small group of nominally Democratic senators, plus that corrupt asshole Lieberman. The course the administration took to get to 60 votes was predetermined by lockstep opposition from the Republican Party and hostage taking by the Dino Squad. The result is what it is. In some respects it is a miracle that anything passed through cloture at all.

The blame rests squarely on the Dino Squad, on the fact that less than a dozen nominally Democratic party aligned senators are pursuing an agenda that is clearly at odds with the vast majority of our party congresional delegation and our party's voting base.

The choices were between a failure as complete as the Clinton administrations and the bad tasting sausage that squeezed out of the senate.

[Bluebear]

1. Sen Feingold says Obama got exactly the bill he wanted

I would love to hear Feingold and Obama debate this!

[Warren Stupidity]

3. He can say anything he wants, but the demands from the Dino Squad

did not come from the White House.

[Bluebear]

8. It's all one big clusterfuck of a deal, isn't it?

[Warren Stupidity]

12. that I agree with

[Cant trust em]

18. That's not exactly what Feingold said.

I believe that he said that Obama didn't work hard enough to keep the public option. Lack of support from the White House made it an uphill battle.

[ixion]

2. uh, no...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4193124

[Warren Stupidity]

10. So 60 -1, last time I looked was one less than needed to pass cloture.

Lieberman killed both the public option and the medicare extension all by himself. Without his vote the bill dies.

So how exactly is asshat's hostage taking behavior Obama's fault?

[get the red out]

4. You are correct, which is a prerequisite for getting un-recced

You are absolutely correct.

[Donnachaidh]

5. uhh -- he was elected to LEAD

And even if he sat back on his ass and did nothing, he gets to bear a large part of the BLAME for this POS.

[Tailormyst]

6. I'll only blame him if he signs it.

Right now my anger as at the Dem leadership for allowing this bill to be turned into a gift for the ins companies at the expense of the people.

[upi402]

7. no. he's the leader of the sell outs. n/t

[joeybee12]

9. If Obama really wanted the public option or something in the bill, he

could have gotten it...he bascially walked away from this and let the fighting begin...he hates to get his hands dirty.

[Sebastian Doyle]

11. Right now, the shitty bill is the fault of the false Democrats in the Senate

However, the minute President Obama SIGNS a shit bill, it becomes HIS shit bill. And that's something he really needs to think about.

[Warren Stupidity]

14. also a statement I agree with

[golddigger]

13. So, does he get the credit for it passing?

[Warren Stupidity]

16. Yes.

That is the point. Only by conceding essentially whatever the hostage takers demanded was a bill going to get through the cloture votes. The choice was and is between nothing and another 12 years of nothing, or the compromised crap we got. I ain't happy with it, but it actually is better than nothing, both politically and in terms of actually bringing health care to more people.

[still_one]

15. Obama did not fight for a public option, that is the problem people are having.

In other words, he was giving concessions before the debate even started, and that is the problem people are having with him

The only way this can be redeemed is if they amend the law ASAP before it becomes law

[Warren Stupidity]

19. Lieberman is immune from political pressure.

I don't quite get what fighting Obama could have done that would have changed Lieberman's position. Perhaps all you wise people here can lay out the realistic scenario that has Joe Schmuck not taking hostages and getting his demands met.

[still_one]

22. All I am saying is the problem a lot of people are having is the perception, real or not

is that Obama did not fight for a public option, and gave up before the debate even started

Your point on lieberman is most likely correct

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

24. The only way this can be redeemed is if they...

...vote to do away with the filibuster (nuclear option) and pass something similar to the House bill in the Senate with 50+1.

Obama could have asked for the nuclear option. It's pretty clear to me that Obama discouraged Reid from implementing the nuclear option.

[Jim Sagle]

17. Oh, bullshit.

[Warren Stupidity]

20. That is very difficult to argue with.

[Individualist]

21. "The blame rests squarely on the Dino Squad..."

"I am a New Democrat," he told the New Democrat Coalition, according to two sources at the White House session. http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/131210/uh_oh:_obama_calls_himself_a_new_democrat/

[jonnyblitz]

23. Obama is the head dino of the dino squad. YOU are in some

serious denial.

[Warren Stupidity]

25. No that is simply false.

[Stinky The Clown]

26. Had there been stronger leadership early on, we could well have gotten wher we needed to get

His silence and floating above the fray early on was a huge error of strategy.

That presupposes, however, that he actually wante something better than this. I have yet to see *real* evidence of that.