Regarding the millions of citizens that would be "covered" by this HCR bill

[mdmc]

Will they be covered by medicaid, and be able to receive treatment from medicaid providers?

Or will they be given private insurance that they will not be able to afford to utilize?

I CURRENTLY HAVE PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE THAT I CANNOT AFFORD TO UTILIZE FOR MEDICAL TREATMENT.

My question is this - did this bill create millions of new medicaid clients, or did it give millions of uninsured citizens un-affordable, unusable health insurance?

[cliffordu]

1. Honestly don't know the answer to that.

Interesting question, though.

[lapfog_1]

2. The answer is yes, sort of.

Remember, none of those state by state insurance exchanges are even available until 2014.

so, in the short term, there is some expanded Medicaid (you should SEE the deal Nelson got Nebraska... greatly expanded Medicaid in PERPETUITY).

To get Medicaid, you still have to qualify. Even this expanded coverage. That means you can't make more than a certain amount of dollars (I believe, and could be wrong, that this is now 1.5 X the federal poverty level). And it's much harder to get for yourself if you have no dependents (children).

Now, when the mandated insurance policies are available via state exchanges, you may qualify for subsidies to assist your purchase of said policy. They are on a sliding scale, and you start to qualify if you make no more than 4 times the federal poverty level of income, or around $48,000 a year. Because the policies offered via the exchange are not "single product" (i.e. pretty much all the same price), the cost of those policies can vary greatly, depending on your age and pre-existing conditions. So, many of us older Americans, who make more than $48,000 a year, will be mandated to pay strictly with our own money to purchase a policy that might be as much as 17 to 20 percent of our gross income. This would be true for people that make between $48,000 and, say, $75,000. If you are a young adult, in good health, and make $50,000, then you are in the 5% to 8% of gross income range.

So... it depends.

[mdmc]

5. So how little, in your opinion, would one person need to earn to get a benefit from this bill?

Thanks for the info..

[lapfog_1]

10. I think I've stated this in another thread...

but based on my analysis, and relying on some expert opinions.

If you make under $40,000 a year and don't have health insurance, or if you make over $100,000 and don't have health insurance, this bill will help you.

If you make over 40K but under 100K and you don't have health insurance... unless you are young and healthy, you are screwed.

So, the options are:

IF you are over 50 and make over 48K but under 100K - get a job that provides company health care.

If you are under 30 but over 21 - and you make $40K or more, this bill will help you out (but MAKES you buy health insurance, you irresponsible twerp!! :ROFL:)

IF you are over 50 and make less than $48,000, this bill MIGHT help (depends on the level of the subsidy).

If you are over 50 and make more than $100K - you still might not be able to afford insurance, but this bill should help those for whom NO insurance is available right now. Even if you end up paying $18,000 a year for the premiums, it might well be worth it compared to no medical coverage at all.

If you are over 30 but under 50 and you make more than, say, $60,000 a year, this bill should help for a while.

Remember, the biggest flaw with this bill is that it does nothing to contain costs. Nothing. Once the insurance companies realize this, they will start gaming the new system to increase profits (they are limited to 15% or 20% profit margins, so the only way to increase profits is to increase premiums). So expect premiums to rise every year, as fast or faster than they do now. Eventually, when the pain threshold is too great for the federal budget (those subsidies) and for the consumer, the new house of cards will fall down and we get to revisit Health Care Reform again. Hopefully with a better outcome.

[mdmc]

12. please allow me to give my info..

I am 38, single, and earn under $30K. I live in downstate NYS.

I currently have health insurance through my employer. I cannot currently afford all of the medical treatment that my medical providers suggest / prescribe for me. My co-payments are too expensive and I am pretty sick with Rheumatoid Arthritis.

Is there any help for me in the current bill?

[lapfog_1]

16. Over the next 3 years, nothing will change for you.

in 2014, try to find another job, even at the same salary, that provides you more coverage.

OR

Find a new job, that pays slightly more salary, that provides you NO insurance.

Then, once the exchanges are up, you can purchase your own policy, which probably covers more expense than your current employer provided policy, and which might be subsidized by the federal government. In any event, at your age, the exchange policy will likely cost less than $600 a month (the wildcard is your pre-existing condition, which the insurance companies can charge 50% more than a standard policy for your age group). The subsidy might be as much as $400 a month, leaving you to pay $200 a month out of your pocket, plus likely per doctor visit co-pays, which are policy dependent and could be very little).

That means you are spending a little over 8% of your gross salary on health care.

Just what David Axelrod estimated yesterday morning on the talk show circuit.


Of course, you will have to wait until 2014 to really examine this carefully and understand all of the ramifications and pitfalls, not to mention that we actually haven't SEEN to policies that will be offered in the exchanges, we are all assuming that they look like the policies offered to federal employees under the supervision of the OPM.

[juno jones]

3. Medicaid is no prize either.

Means testing. Medicaid has hoops other than mere income to jump thru. You have to not only be broke but lacking in personal assets. You don't get to keep your car and house or have a savings account with medicaid as it is currently administered. In many states you must be disabled or pregnant to quallify. And there is no guarantee that one will find a doc or clinic that will accept it, forcing many on medicaid to continue using the emergency room for primary care like they are currently. I'm not seeing any language that would expand criteria and coverage aside from income or force docs to accept it as payment.

Medicaid sounds like a cushy magic bullet to those who have never encountered our punitive welfare system. I wish I was a blissfully ignorant of poverty as they seem to be.

I too pay my bills out of pocket, because the only insurance I was ever offered in my years cooking would take the money I use currently to stay healthy thru good food and vitamins and give it to insurance co's. I wouldn't be able to afford to use the damn policy and I wouldn't be able to keep myself healthy.

[mdmc]

7. Right now I have private insurance, until I become disabled due to

lack of medical treatment (I have RA and will eventually be disabled by it unless I can somehow afford medical treatment).

I hear ya. I hear ya.

[juno jones]

29. I'm sorry.

:hug:

My DH is unable to work in his former profession because of repetitive motion issues. There is no insurance or safety net availible to us. Your post hit home.

[quiller4]

13. Depends on the state. Yes. It is means tested but this expansion

will mean that many previously denied care will have access. In some ways and in some states far more than others, the welfare system can be punitive but SCHIP really does wokr like a "cushy magic bullet" and now far more families will have that coverage for chronically ill children.

[Yuugal]

26. link?

"The Congressional Budget Office has been very clear that replacing CHIP with private health coverage will lead some children to lose their health coverage altogether, which is harmful and intolerable. Health care reform should improve the coverage children have – not take their coverage away."

As I understand things now schip will only continue until Obumblecare starts in 2014, at which point I'm supposed to magically shit 7000 dollars out my ass to Aetna for the privilege of not being able to take my kids to the doctor anymore because of deductibles and co-pays. Do you have a link that says they have fixed this?

First google result for "will the senate bill end schip?" was:

http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/content/44/23/23.1.full

"Part of the House of Representatives' plan for reforming the way some children receive health care spurs concerns that moderate-income children may see their health care coverage disrupted and reduced. "

The people who keep saying the house will save us in reconciliation seemed to have missed that schip is already dead over there?

[juno jones]

30. Thank you.

You took the words outta my mouth! :hi:

[Yuugal]

36. Ever notice the paid shills never answer this question

I've posted it as a response to every DLC shill on my ignore list and not once have I had an answer from them. Its easy to spot the shills.

[gaspee]

14. And you have to

have kids (at least in my state) - the rest of us can fuck off and die.

[juno jones]

27. I don't know how it is in my current state

(tho I have a sick feeling I'm about to find out) but in the past pregnancy or children was one of the criteria. Seems childless people and older people with grown children are SOL.

[RobinA]

33. Kids

definitely help here in PA. Otherwise you have to be so broke you are homeless.

[mdmc]

19. thanks again

I fear that my treatment will increase due to this bill.

[Raineyb]

20. Thank you.

It amazes me how many people just use "well you'll get to go on medicaid" as a throw away line as though that's the end all to be all. Medicaid wants you destitute. You can't even have a small bit of money in the bank and be able to keep the insurance.

I had been saving to buy a house before I got laid off. Now that money will have to be completely depleted before I can qualify for anything, but that money won't be around to pay my bills while I try to go back to school and find a new job if I have to use it to buy health insurance with my pre-existing condition. But I'm supposed to jump up and down and pretend this bill isn't the steaming pile of shit that it is? Oh and I can still be denied health insurance while being forced to buy the damn thing. That's just fucking great. With Dems like these who needs enemies?

[juno jones]

31. I agree.

Who needs enemies, indeed.

[RobinA]

34. I Am a Social Worker

and I work fairly extensively with the welfare system. The myths out there about welfare set my teeth on edge. The "welfare queen" mindset is still quite prevalent. I used to fight it but gave up. If I hear ONE MORE comment about people on welfare with big screen TVs I'm going to rip the person's throat out with my teeth. I used to go to people's houses. No one had a big screen TV. Most of them didn't have cable, and if they did it was only until the cable company got around to shutting it off. I am no romantisizer of the poor, but I wish people would learn the facts before spouting about welfare.

[RobinA]

32. What State Are You In?

In PA you have to be broke, but you can keep the house and car. This helps some few people who, although broke, somehow manage to have a house and/or car.

[Laelth]

4. Of course, it will be terrible insurance that they'll have to pay for, but won't be able to use.

It's a huge, back-door tax on the uninsured and a complete breach of Obama's pledge not to raise taxes on the poor or the middle class.

Kill the bill.

Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the answer to a failed health care system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.

:dem:

-Laelth

[mdmc]

8. That is what I thought

[RDANGELO]

6. Some of both.

They are increasing the number of people eligible for Medicaid by lifting the required income level and providing subsidies for other lower and middle income people. Probably, most of those working for Walmart would qualify for Medicaid.

[mdmc]

11. thanks for the info

peace and low stress..

[ixion]

9. there will be plenty of people uncovered for prexisting conditions that will now have to pay a fine

how is that a good thing?

[Echo In Light]

15. In America, getting even wealthier at the expense of the less fortunate is pure, exalted religion

That's how. Unfortunately.

[RobinA]

35. I Thought

the one good thing about this bill was good bye pre-existing condition.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

17. Yes, all the people pleading for the Senate to pass the bill because of their personal situations

are sadly mistaken if they think it will provide any immediate help.

[Vincardog]

18. it FORCE millions of uninsured citizens to BUY, unusable health insurance.

[mdmc]

21. that was my guess as well..

[My Good Babushka]

22. The House Language said-

* Every American who receives coverage through the exchange will
have a plan that includes standardized, comprehensive and quality health
care benefits.
* It would end increases in premiums or denials of care based on
pre-existing conditions, age, race or gender.
* The proposal would also eliminate co-pays for preventative care,
cap out-of-pocket expenses and guarantee catastrophic coverage that
protects every American from bankruptcy.

I don't know how it stands with the Senate Bill. I thought these provisions were in it as well.

[blindpig]

23. Covered with dirt...n/t

[mdmc]

24. heha

:)

[branders seine]

25. who cares about them? This is an insurance bill, not a care bill.

As long as Axelrod and rahm can claim some giant number and their insurance buddies make out like the bandits they are, all is good. Poor people die all the time. Big deal. Go team!



-I honestly don't know if this is sarcastic or not.-

[mdmc]

28. these are strange days indeed

supporting Obama through all this..
I've been in politics a long time and am very use to this..

[Thickasabrick]

37. It is not being provided to the 30 million. They will be forced to buy

it and if they can't afford it, there will be subsidies or medicaid. The talking point that this will provide for 30 million uninsured is total bullshit and no one is really fooled by it either.