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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 01:25 PM
Original message
Things that happened while "the left" was being battered by party leadership.
Things that happened while all the big guns were sent out to bring down a former governor of Vermont who tried to say these things were going on.

Head Scratchers

1. Pre-Exisiting Condition Exclusion: The legislation bars insurers immediately from denying coverage to children based on a pre-existing condition. However, they are still free to do it to adults until 2014. Besides being a blatant exception to immediate consumer protections, this one is a true head-scratcher. Except for expensive risk pools, adults in the individual insurance market with pre-existing conditions have nowhere to go until 2014. Yet the coverage mandate begins in the 2013 tax year. So what are folks supposed to do in 2013? Take out a second mortgage to pay for health plan coverage that won't cover their pre-existing conditions (the risk pool requires going bare for 6 months, activating a 12-month pre-exisiting condition coverage exclusion) or pay a fine, just because lawmakers wanted a better CBO score?

2. Botax to Tan-Tax: So, the “Botax” on cosmetic surgery is no more. But now there’s a 10% tax on those using tanning salons. It’s not clear on whether that’s just the UV type (does anyone use these anymore?), or whether spray-on tanning centers also qualify. I’d love to have been a fly on the wall for that negotiation, which spared the usual culprit: cigarettes. Does it come close to bringing in the same revenue as a cosmetic surgery tax?

3. Nebraska’s Federal Medicaid Subsidy: Nelson bargained his state out of shouldering any costs from the expanded Medicaid program. Other states’ senators are probably not going to roll over on this one, as state budgets are already strapped due to the economy and Medicaid is chronically under-funded. So did we gain one more senator just to lose a few more?

Health care plan features


The coverage mandate begins in 2013, but the pre-existing rule does not start until 2014. Most interesting. I am sure they will fix it in conference.

And the part about women really angers me.

Gut Checks

1. State Anti-Abortion Opt-In: Until now, federal money wasn’t allowed to be used for abortions except in life-threatening cases, rape, or incest. Now, in addition to that firewall, states can opt to pass a law barring abortion coverage within their insurance exchanges. So now it’s not just those who can least afford abortion services that are being denied them, it’s potentially every woman buying coverage within an exchange.


Guess what else is annoying. Barbara Boxer sent an email to her constituents which in effect did not mention the sell-out of women. But one part did say women's rights were preserved. Now that is just plain not true.

Boxer Email to Constituents Makes No Mention of Loss of Abortion Coverage

This weekend, Senator Barbara Boxer (D-CA) sent out an update and fundraising email to her constituents underscoring the benefits of the current Senate Health Reform bill.

..."There's was only one problem: The email completely skirts the issue of insurance coverage of abortion care.

The email states:

"On Friday, I joined a 7-hour marathon negotiating session to hammer out the final details of the reform bill. By the end of the night, we had finally reached a solid compromise to insure more Americans, lower costs, and hold insurance companies accountable to deliver for the premiums we pay -- all while protecting women's health and right to choose."

In fact, as we have noted elsewhere, the Nelson language in the bill will have several deleterious effects on women's right to choose, by, among other things, limiting access to insurance policies that include abortion care (which in turn will limit the ability of women to access such care), eliminating the provision requiring at least one plan in each exchange include abortion care, and forcing policyholders to write two checks, one for the share of their premium devoted to abortion care.

Can we say these outcomes protect a woman's right to choose? Not by even the most conservative reading of the Nelson language.


And what makes the whole thing so very tragic is that Ben Nelson is not even a hero to the right wing. In fact they are trashing him far more than we are.

Ben Nelson Faces Pro-Life Rally, Backlash After Abortion-Health Care Sellout

Washington, DC (LifeNews.com) -- Senator Ben Nelson of Nebraska faces a significant backlash after compromising his pro-life views on abortion by proposing language in the Senate health care bill that funds abortions and saying he would vote for the pro-abortion health care bill.

Since his announcement, pro-life groups have come down hard on Nelson saying his compromise just allows more abortion funding.

“I couldn't create the opportunity to be the 60th vote. It happened,” Nelson said on CNN on Sunday. “If you think it's fun having both sides on an issue mad at you when you're trying to do something in good faith, just think, it's like going home and getting bit by the family dog. So - who enjoys that?”


Let's see...was it Durbin who said the other day that they knew they had a good bill because the left and the right hated it equally?

I thought that was a pathetic thing to say. We are angry because we care about good health care and women's rights. They are angry because they don't want any health care at all.


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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. The unrec patrol is right on the ball.
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. i think those of us who appreciate your contributions outnumber
the unrec patrol these days. Your threads are must-reads for me. I will cancal out an unrec with a rec as soon as i hit 'send" on my post.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Thanks, they don't even bother to read a post.
Appreciate the thought.

I am very upset right now, and the public spin going on is too much.
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. there are many of us who feel the same as you. you are NOT
alone. trust me.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
33. Well, I feel like there are so few of us...
who care about what happens to those speaking out. It's a strange feeling this week.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #33
45. It is, indeed. I'm with you, powerless though I might be. nt
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bonnieS Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #33
50. You are not alone
I answered Boxer's e-mail with FACTS and so did my husband, for example. I am sure thousands more did the same thing.

As a person with a pre-existing condition who has had a hard time getting coverage for anything from the health insurance company I pay, I knew that this bill would never force them to cover it, and now I see that once the provision kicks in it will be too expensive to actually get for those of us still alive at the end of four years from now.

People will eventually find all this out. In the meantime a stream of supposedly progressive Legislators (et tu, Bernie?) glide across the TV screen to ensnare the unsuspecting, smiling and saying "trust me." As soon as anyone , anywhere, says "trust me" I know that things are bad.

Other people who agree with you: www.now.org/join

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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
39. Once again, pardon my ignorance, but how do I see where the tally of recs and UNrecs is?
And REC for this one.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. The only way to tell the unrecs....
is to keep count, which is really hard...OR if it is on the GP top ten under Just Recs...I found one of mine had 21 unrecs at one point that way.

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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Thanks, madflo.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Don't even worry about it.
Their unrec is like excrement as compared to cream. :)
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. They hate me and I relish in their hatred
Let them Hate Madfloridain, your performing an immeasurable service to this board.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #11
59. Jake, why are you being singled out for emails etc? Seriously?
Many DUers here have been very vocal in their frustration and/or outright opposition to what they view as bad policy across a lot of issues. Is it because of the level of your organizer experience in the election? When it goes beyond public discussion to private vendettas that won't change anything, I don't get it.

:shrug:
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. K & R Thanks for the continued good work Mad n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
20. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. seems as if you enjoy pontificating the failures of others.
Edited on Mon Dec-21-09 02:23 PM by Javaman
great hobby you have there.

:eyes:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Goes on all the time.
He lets his contempt for me show in many threads.

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Upfront Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #27
60. Hey Mad
I am still with you and always have been. Good work kid.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-24-09 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #60
67. Hey there, upfront. Just saw your post.
Bet it's colder where you are than where I am.

:-)
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
51. Rec # 122 From Me
I am not sure where I should go from here. I'm Stunned.
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Blue Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
65. It's just Karl Rove's intern
Some flunky sitting at a desk somewhere unreccing every goddamned thread at this site.
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Goldstein1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
3. Too many compromises
Bad bill.

Rec
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
43. And those who say so bear the wrath..
of this administration
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
4. Useful and informative. Thanks. n/t

Kill the bill.


Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the answer to a failed health care system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.

:dem:

-Laelth
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golddigger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
6. K&R...thanks
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
7. I've been impressed with Boxer the past few days...
...she's learned to lie with a straight face just like the rest of them.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #7
49. Well, they always get better at that come re-election time.
n/t.
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
10. The Senate bill
reminds me of when conservatives argued we had to keep funding the Iraq war or we wouldn't be able to afford to bring the troops home safely.

Our troops then were, and the few sick children who might actually be benefitted by this bill are now, being held for ransom by people who can't be trusted to fulfill any promises once we've paid up.

We're being required to pay an awful lot for very little actual benefit to people in need. It looks like another instance of the conservative strategy of causing us to spend way too much on the wrong things and later screaming to high heavens that we've got nothing left to spend on the right things.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Yes, the spin and talking points are just about like the Iraq War
discussion. Very reminiscent of that time.
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
13. I got that Boxer email. It almost cost me a monitor, but I controlled myself. nt
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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. haha - good thing the monitor survived
I also got that silly e-mail and promptly trashed it.
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #13
46. Barbara Boxer is technically correct: A woman can CHOOSE to have an abortion.
Whether she can afford to pay for it is another matter, entirely.
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #46
56. That's what made me so mad. She knew what she was doing. nt
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
14. I'm really disappointed with Boxer.
When my blood pressure comes down, I'll be sending her a letter explaining why we are stopping donations to her 2010 campaign.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #14
32. It would have been better not to mention women's rights in the email
than to say that.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. They are playing to the low information donors, of course
the lie is more appealing than the truth
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #34
47. Yes, I think you are right.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
17. Will Boehner slowly lose his perenial tan
as a result of point #2?

Thank you for the information MD.

I am not sure if this correct. But I heard on the news that after the bill gets through Conference in the House, and goes back to the Senate, it will only need 50 votes to pass. I haven't heard this before so am not sure. But if true, maybe there is still hope to clear up some of the problems with this bill? Unless they insist they need a few Republican votes, for the appearance of bi-partisanship.
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tnlefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
18. I object!!!
I find it hard to believe that anyone on the right could be trashin' Ben Nelson more than I.}(

Thanks for another great post, rec'd.
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
19. Senator Nelson...you should get bit by the family dog for being so dirty minded toward women.
Edited on Mon Dec-21-09 01:54 PM by Jamastiene
You need to get your dirty mind out of women's reproductive systems. I'd wager a bet most of us do NOT want you there.

You shouldn't be having fun after your nastiness was added to this bill. Quit being a creepy, dirty old man. You give non-creepy dirty old men a bad name.
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
21. K&R
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
22. Rejoice everyone...Dean said it is okay now.!!!
.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
24. K&R
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
25. Not to worry. Just contact a lobbyist to deliver a baby or set a broken arm. K&R
Edited on Mon Dec-21-09 02:26 PM by Tierra_y_Libertad
Or, maybe a secretary or accountant at Aetna who have time on their hands.

Or, some nice politician who voted for this travesty...Naww..they demand bigger payoffs.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Well, it's all okay now. Didn't you hear? Dean said go for it.
He did not count when he was criticizing it, but now there is gloating that he apparently caved.

We are so stupid and fickle, and we all love the effing bill now.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. But, Dean's set of pom-poms are "not as bad" as Nelson's.
"A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in principle is always a vice." Thomas Paine

But, Tom wasn't realistic, didn't understand "practical politics" and the necessity of campaign contributions and appealing to the middle like the apologists.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. We accept it all, and rejoice when voices are silenced.
I am amazed at how DU was forced to become FOR this flawed bill because only one person was publicly saying it was not a good bill.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
28. Stand up and cheer now DU. Now no one is speaking against it.
Ain't it amazing how that happens?

Falling in line.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. The timing of the Afghanistan announcement and this bill
have been very well played by the Dem leadership.
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phasma ex machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #28
41. The powers that be tell me it's a historic moment. nt
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #41
44. They must mean historic....
in the way of forgetting all their promises.

:shrug:
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
31. k&r
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
35. Interesting poll today...people starting to realize the real meaning of mandate.
"The poll by the nonpartisan Research 2000 for the Progressive Change Campaign Committee and Democracy for America, to be released today, finds that more Americans are skeptical of the mandate when they are told that 30 million people will be required to get coverage while only some receive subsidies. The question:

If the government requires 30 million uninsured Americans to buy health insurance, and gives subsidies to some Americans to help them afford this insurance, would it be accurate to say this plan, quote, “PROVIDES” 30 million Americans with health insurance?

Yes: 36%
No: 48%


“This poll confirms that voters get it,” Jim Dean, the head of DFA and the brother of Howard “kill the bill” Dean, emails. “The Senate bill doesn’t actually ‘provide’ 30 million Americans with coverage — instead it makes them criminals if they don’t buy insurance from the same companies that got us into this mess.”"

http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/health-care/liberal-group-our-poll-proves-public-knows-individual-mandate-is-a-sham/
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suzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #35
55. Madfloridian, you might want to consider that even if your fondest
wish comes true and Howard Dean primaries Obama and wins, Dean would lose the election in an even bigger landslide than he would have in 2004.

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placton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
37. 2 kindsa Dems
skunks and enablers, like Boxer
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-21-09 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
38. K & R
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 03:40 AM
Response to Original message
48. The bill is a dog, and they should put it out of our misery.
This is going to be the downfall of a majority of Democrats in the Senate in 2011.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
52. k&R
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
53. k&R
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RetroLounge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
54. K&R
RL
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highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
57. K&R
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
58. K&R
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
61. K&R
:kick:
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
62. madfloridian, you spoke up with your heart and mind when it mattered
Edited on Tue Dec-22-09 10:16 AM by chill_wind
the most. The time for debate and pressure, faxes, emails, phone calls, petitions, public debate, discussion and determined advocacy for a BETTER bill was and remains now. Hell raising or soberly expressed disappointment by anyone holding their fire until after the bill is signed will have contributed nothing.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
63. K&R....the more we find out...the worse it all gets that they passed this thing.
We just got notice from Blue Cross they are increasing our insurance 8%. On what basis? We are both healthy...have to get private insurance because we are small business owners and Blue Cross is the only one who allows small business owners insurance pool in my state.

We already have high deductibles...so I guess they want us to cut back our coverage even more. We pay $22,000 for this...and they jack it up 8%.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
64. K and R How about Boxer's wording. They are all in tight corners and I have a
feeling there are going to be more Boxer weaseling to come from all the other who can't be blunt like Feingold, Dean, Kucinich, Sanders.

Thanks for posting.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
66. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
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