Howard Dean says pass the Senate bill!

[grytpype]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/12/21/817566/-Howard-Dean-on-MSNBC-says-pass-the-bill

WATCH OUT HOWARD!!!!!



There's more people under the bus than there is in the bus!

Let the downvoting commence!

[dmallind]

1. That damn traitorous DINO corporatist shill!

So I wonder where the "Dean speaks for me" crowd will go now?

[CoffeeCat]

4. Don't get so giddy...

This always happens when some politician dares to take on these powerful corporations
and their enabling politicians.

Someone dares to speak the truth--and then a day or two later they're either apologizing
or groveling for forgiveness about saying icky-bad things about the almighty corporations.

Just because someone grabbed Dean by the shirt collar, bullied him and probably threatened
him into shutting his yapper--is no reason to gloat.

This is a disgusting perversion of our government. The truth isn't allowed. The best interests
of the American people are not to be discussed. We should all be sickened by this.

[dmallind]

20. Or....maybe he just got more details and some progress and changed his mind?

I mean I suppose it's possible there's some DLC hitman pointing a rifle at his family and giving him a statement to read, but let's work on the facts as known first.

[CoffeeCat]

28. The facts are that the health-insurance lobby...

...set up camp on Capitol Hill long before this legislation was written. The spent hundreds of
millions of dollars lobbying against meaningful reform. They got EVERYTHING they wanted.

Single payer was never on the table. The public option is dead. However, people will now be
forced to buy insurance from the VERY companies that paid to kill meaningful reform.

We've just enriched the companies who own this broken system--and they paid handsomely to ensure
that happened.

It's obvious that these lobbies are powerful. I don't know what goes on behind the scenes, as far
as the details. However, these bastards are willing to buy political influence in order to increase their
profits. We're not dealing with the Girl Scouts here.

And it's not the first time that a truth-telling Democrat has turned around and said the opposite
the next day. You don't have to be in the room to understand what's going on. You just have to
be paying attention.

[MineralMan]

32. Not to mention all those Dean avatars being sported right now.

[NJmaverick]

2. Here are the talking points from the article

he just said that it should pass, he now wants it to pass

-said the changes he wanted from his MTP interview have been made..named at least 3 of them
-said that rockefeller amendment is huge
-states still have the right to make the bill better too
-says that disappointed in no PO but best that can be expected
-cost panels with teeth in them now (3 of them)to regulate costs by insurance co
-hospitals can be self exmpted (sounded positive but missed part)
-great thing in bill with how they treat small business
-he agrees with feingold about wh and PO

[mzmolly]

3. I wont say I told ya so

but I did. :evilgrin:

[madfloridian]

5. So we all love the bill now? We are so fickle.

Let them beat up on us a little and we fall in love all over again.

[cali]

6. really? who said anything about loving the bill?

[madfloridian]

9. There is rejoicing because Dean caved.

Wait until 2013 when the law sets in and the pre-existing doesn't set in until 2014.

Wait until people find out they will be having the IRS after them for insurance they can not afford since they don't qualify for a "subsidy"

Wait.

[mzmolly]

7. Dean was trying to strengthen the bill. And, I believe he may have helped

do so. :hi:

[madfloridian]

11. Oh, come on. He is backing off. So would I.

They sent out the VP to correct him.

Of course he caved.

[mzmolly]

18. MF I don't think Dean is beholden to anyone. Here is what I thought would happen all along.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7281281&mesg_id=7282367

[madfloridian]

27. Of course he backed down...you can't fight the whole system

When they send the VP after you...you got problems.

[mzmolly]

30. Why would he back down AFTER the bill passed the Senate and not before?

Your opinion of Dean, again differs from mine.

Dean gave so called moderates something to push back against after Lieberman said he would not support the initial senate bill because liberals were happy about it. He gave 'moderates' cover. AND, he advocated for a stronger bill in the process. His strategy was clear to me from the beginning.

[Cant trust em]

21. What leverage do they have over Dean?

Maybe he's planning another run for office?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

40. So you're saying Dean is some sort of spineless wimp.

Thereby proving the OP's point.

[madfloridian]

41. I am saying DU is so happy now.

We are so fickle. Can't stand any criticism of what Obama does...happy no matter what passes.

[mzmolly]

45. I support Dean's critique.

He was an instrumental factor in reform IMHO.

[Hatchling]

44. Look at his expression on MTP.

He was definitely looking a little green around the gills. This doesn't surprise me, but I still stand with a man who had the courage to speak out.

[mvd]

16. If I was in Congress..

I probably would not filibuster it, because I have hope that it can be improved quickly - and it better be quickly, before the insurance companies lobby too hard to maintain the control the bill allows. I would vote NO in the up or down vote. I am disappointed that the party (from the Congress to the President) did not use/urge more tactics like reconciliation to get a better bill.

My concern is, what principles are the insurance companies strongly against? It would make me feel better to hear some. THE OPM-administered plans have potential, but will they regulate like they do Congressional plans?

[madfloridian]

24. And what if we have a President Palin?

[mvd]

29. I'm not sure this bill actually prevents that

We'll see.

Progressives, unlike the conservative Dems, go for party unity. On one hand, that's admirable, but on the other hand, we don't get progressives principles across because we don't fight.

[still_one]

8. That does not mean he is for the bill /nt

[mzmolly]

12. Yeah

it pretty much does.

[still_one]

19. No, it means that under the current system we have, it would do more harm to kill it

at this stage.

He is also hoping that it can be amended after it becomes law

[mzmolly]

23. I'm going to let

Dean speak for Dean.

[still_one]

53. Since Dean has said first kill it, then vote for it, take your pick, you will be right either way

[grytpype]

10. Rahm kidnapped Dean's pet kitten!!!!!

He said the kitten would "get it" if Dean didn't change his mind!!!!

[NJmaverick]

13. I think Howard Dean has come to realize the best way to improve on and get HRC passed

is to approve the Senate version and send it to conference.

[tridim]

14. The only people still on the bus are the Republicans in congress..

RW hate radio hosts, Faux News and several DU posters who agree with the Republican "Kill The Bill so the Democrats fail" meme.

[SIMPLYB1980]

15. LoL!

:toast:

[Laelth]

17. Proof that even Howard Dean's arm can be twisted. Sad. n/t

Kill the bill.

Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the answer to a failed health care system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.

:dem:

-Laelth

[tridim]

25. Smart people are abandoning you in droves because you're not being rational.

The only supporters you have left are the entire GOP, RW hate radio and Faux.

Gawd, that must suck.

[Laelth]

47. LOL. As if I ever had an army of followers.

Poll after poll here on DU says the majority of us favor killing this bill. Many of you can not stand that. I understand. It's a threat to your party identity and to your credentials as liberals. Ultimately, nothing I can do to help you with that.

Carry on, good soldier! I salute you.

:patriot:

Kill the bill.

Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the answer to a failed health care system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.

:dem:

-Laelth

[mzmolly]

26. It's proof that Dean knew what he was doing all along.

Some of us knew he'd support the final bill.

[MineralMan]

36. Your avatar supports it, too.

And there it is...it is the bill that could pass with 60 votes. Now, the changes start in the language, followed by changes over all once it is signed. New bills will follow. The cycle of denying all health care reform is over.

[mzmolly]

43. A

men! :toast:

[MineralMan]

46. There was a thread calling Franken another sell-out

here a couple of days ago. Amazing. One day, people love him for shutting Lieberman down. The next, they hate him. A guy hardly knows what to expect.

[mzmolly]

49. Dare I say I kind of agree

with Matthews about some people simply wanting to bitch? ;)

[MineralMan]

35. You rang?

You have exquisite timing.

[berni_mccoy]

37. Wow, now you've really exposed some crazy. Better cover it up quick.

[Laelth]

48. Ad hominem will not aid your cause, good soldier.

Lots of liberals, here and elsewhere, support killing this bill. If that causes you pain, there's nothing I can do to help you.

Carry on. I salute you.

:patriot:

Kill the bill.

Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the answer to a failed health care system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.

:dem:

-Laelth

[tridim]

50. And ALL of the GOP supports killing the bill..

Just like you do.

Carry on, irrational soldier for the status quo.

[Larkspur]

22. And the diarist said Dean gave reasons for passing the bill...

-said the changes he wanted from his MTP interview have been made..named at least 3 of them
-said that rockefeller amendment is huge
-states still have the right to make the bill better too
-says that disappointed in no PO but best that can be expected
-cost panels with teeth in them now (3 of them)to regulate costs by insurance co
-hospitals can be self exmpted (sounded positive but missed part)
-great thing in bill with how they treat small business
-he agrees with feingold about wh and PO

[Citizen Kang]

31. Geez

A little perspective here? Dean has said for several days to pass the bill and go to conference committee and try to improve it there. This is nothing new, he did not "cave". No one twisted his arm.

Ever hear of negotiating and leverage? Dean used what little leverage he had as a leader for progressives and got a few improvements. Dean and many of his followers have seen the writing on the wall. That this Senate bill was what Obama and his Clinton/DLC-retreads have wanted all along. He's getting what he can.

[mvd]

34. I'll reserve final judgment until after conference..

and will also see if improvements are planned after that if the bill looks the same. I'm not thrilled about this bill at all, but it's fair to see what happens.

[Tom Rinaldo]

33. A simple observation

It is politically pointless to call for the Senate Bill to be killed today when it was proved last night that the votes are already locked down to pass it. To do so would be a total waste of whatever political capital Dean has. The next decision point shifts to weighing the results coming from the Conference Committee with the House. Those who believe this bill should be killed already as well as those critics who honestly hold out hope it still will be improved enough to back, will wait until that time to make their next call to either pass or reject it.

[debbierlus]

38. He said pass it to go to reconciliation, but did not support passage if the bill doesn't

Significantly change in committee.

[JDPriestly]

39. I also saw these improvements in the Manager's Amendment.

But I still oppose the bill because the only real cuts are to Medicare costs. There is what I believe to be some sort of complex process for checking costs on the private insurance, but it doesn't look at all realistic to me. The cost control mechanism is too subjective. It leaves too much room for accounting tricks. I would not vote for this bill.

Put Republicans in charge of the agency that administers the cost controls, etc. and the bill will be emasculated.

If this is the best that Congress and the White House can do for the American people, God help us.

If they treat the Iraqis and the Afghanis, etc. the way they treat the American people, God help this world.

[defendandprotect]

42. Ah . . . what a surprise . . .. !!!

Thanks for trying, Howard --

but it should be a warning to us all of the power behind this corporatism . . .

and the co-option of the Democratic party -- !!!

[cottonseed]

51. This stuff has been going on since the 70s.

A warning to us all of the power behind this corporatism? Dean knows what's going on. You can't take your ball and go home. You've got to continue to try and improve upon things.

[defendandprotect]

52. It sounds like Dean is now SUPPORTING passage . . . did you read the latest article???

Yes -- since time began, there have been those who want to dominate --

to have control over others. And, they've been co-opting the Democratic Party

for decades -- Greens, as well . . . just in case!!! --

This legislation is garbage and should be junked --

We should restart with single payer -- everyone in, no one out --

insurance companies and other health care corporations OUT -- Pharma OUT --

Was just listening to Obama in 2008 at labor union meeting --

"I personally support single payer, everyone in, no one out" --

And, let's see . . .

Oh, yeah . . . "Couldn't get there right away . . . we had to take back White House,

Senate and House of Reps first" --- seems we did that!!!

Unfortunately, Obama eloped into White House with corporations - poisonous DLC.

It's over --

And they'll leave nothing of the Democratic Party which could work for any progressive reform!!

Social Security and Medicare will be privatized next --

[madfloridian]

54. I just put the video up in DU video. What a distortion this post is.

Watch, read what I posted, and see the spin for what it is.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x416005

[madfloridian]

55. And a kick for viewing a video that is misrepresented.

[coti]

56. He clearly didn't say that- although the OP sure as hell wants him to. nt

[Frank Booth]

57. I think that's just Barack Obama wearing a mask.