Why are Progressives falling in line?

[berni_mccoy]

Sanders, Feingold, now Dean, all falling in line behind this bill and calling out all the positive it will bring.

The glass has suddenly gone from empty to half-full seemingly overnight.

What's going on?

Why are House Progressives falling back on their words to vote down in conference any bill that didn't have a Public Option? What happened to Sanders filibuster threat?

We are either wrong that the bill is worse than the status quo or something devastating has happened to the progressive movement. I doubt all the progressives suddenly drank the kool-aide.

[cliffordu]

Interesting question. I wonder if we'll ever really know....

[kirby]

1. Progressives have no leverage...

Basically, they want Health Care Reform more than anyone else. Basically, they will take whatever they can get.

[aquart]

6. Why couldn't Sanders filibuster?

[kirby]

14. Because he wants something more than nothing...

He also got more than $10billion dollars added to the bill in exchange for this vote (to provide money for community health centers).

If he filibustered it, we would be hailed as the Ralph Nader of 2009. He ruined HCR. He would be labeled as responsible for the loss of all the various House/Senate seats in the next election cycle.

[leftstreet]

2. Our Leaders are far too clever for us to understand n/t

[madrchsod]

house--- senate conference

that`s where the wheeling and dealing will take place. those guys and gals in the house have the biggest price to pay next year.

[Ozymanithrax]

3. Because they know it is the best bill that can be passed by this Senate...

and after the midterms, a shrunken Democratic majority will not be able to defeat a filibuster by Republicans on a motion for a bathroom break.

It is better to do a little now than to cry because we always failed to do a great good.

[Renew Deal]

4. Because governing is harder than posting on the internet.

That's the short answer.

[ixion]

5. I don't care who is falling in line and who is not

mandating that citizens must purchase crappy, over-priced insurance policies or pay a fine is crap.

[berni_mccoy]

7. Then you should be furious with progressives for caving in on this.

[Tansy_Gold]

8. my sentiments exactly. n/t

[bigwillq]

9. They want something over nothing.

They want "something" some they can say "See, we reformed health care".

Not so sure they're right. I'm in wait and see mode to see how this all plays out.

[Enrique]

10. I think they were bluffing

the leadership has been taking progressives for granted all through the process, their only leverage at this point was to threaten to kill the bill. In order to make that plausible, they used the rhetoric about it being worse than the status quo. Then at some point they decided that they had lost and they conceded.

[VMI Dem]

11. Why do jackass centrists suddenly care what progressives think?

Makes one wonder.

[tekisui]

13. !

:rofl:

[berni_mccoy]

19. Maybe it's because self-proclaimed Progressives have been extremely loud and vocal about it?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

22. that too

[Laelth]

24. +1 LOL.

Kill the bill.

Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the answer to a failed health care system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.

:dem:

-Laelth

[Individualist]

28. +1

[jonnyblitz]

36. !!!!

:applause:

[Dr Fate]

41. Because centrists will still need someone to do all their work for them.

Apparently that vast army of centrist, moderate, pro-Senate DEM activists/loyalists is not as easy to locate as they thought it would be.

[xchrom]

12. I don't think it's a conspiracy -- but it certainly

Makes for a very, very interesting question.
I do think that until liberals/progressives with hold votes,money and support
at election time -- we won't know the worth of our power.

I imagine that in five to ten years we wil learn
what happened now.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

15. never mind. why bother

[Warpy]

16. Because the Senate is lousy with conservatives in both parties

and this is the best bill that will get through that body until they are gone.

[PassingFair]

17. Maybe there is a chance for the House to pull a fast one....

slip a little P.O. in when the bad guys aren't looking.

[Larkspur]

18. Dean said today that there were changes to the bill that he could support

He still emphasized that the senate bill had major problems but there were items added that could help control costs. Dean also agree with Feingold and apparently Lieberman that the White House did not fight hard enough for the public option. the White House gets a great deal of blame for killing the public option and Medicare buy-in.

By airing his dissent, Dean helped progressives get some more changes to the bill.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

20. Maybe because they have priorities other than bitching on the internet.

Why are House Progressives falling back on their words to vote down in conference any bill that didn't have a Public Option?

Because they lost that fight.

What happened to Sanders filibuster threat?

It was just that - a threat. And not a very credible one at that.

We are either wrong that the bill is worse than the status quo

You're wrong.

or something devastating has happened to the progressive movement.

What? Practicality?

[berni_mccoy]

21. psssst.... I know all that

I'm not really asking these questions.

[Stinky The Clown]

32. Hehehe

:thumbsup:

That's what comes out when one fancies oneself above the fray but posts frequently on the internet.

[Laelth]

23. I think it's heavy duty arm twisting.

Many elected Democrats want to be good soldiers. They want to support Obama. Some like their offices and their committee chairmanships. None of them wants to face Rahm's ire.

Of course, I am open to other interpretations, except one. The "this bill just got a lot better" argument is unworthy of a response.

Kill the bill.

Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the answer to a failed health care system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.

:dem:

-Laelth

[Dr Fate]

40. That is what "they" meant by Chicago style politics- but's only used against Liberals.

If you look at it, Obama & Rahm never actually promised to use "Chicago Style Politics" against corporatations & Blue Dogs- they were apparently talking about using this style of arm twisting againt Liberals & their own base.

[Laelth]

43. You have a point. Sad, but accurate. n/t

Kill the bill.

Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the answer to a failed health care system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.

:dem:

-Laelth

[liberal_at_heart]

Because they want the win even if it's not a win

They know they are going to lose seats in 2010 and want a win they can tout to get re-elected. They keep telling us all the good selling points of this bill. What I want to know is all the loopholes the insurance companies will get to get out of the regulations that are being set. Because there will be loopholes. You don't get a multi-billion dollar lobby like the insurance industry involved in negotiations without there being loopholes for them to get out of covering people and paying claims. They keep talking about the selling points of these bills. I don't trust any of them. I think there will be a loophole for every single one of these regulations. I'm disgusted, but it is too close to Christmas to be this depressed so I am just going to turn off my tv, and try to enjoy the Winter Solstice and Christmas.

[zipplewrath]

25. Kicking the ball down the road

In the end it sets up a structure for the congress to continue to manipulate health care and its issues. There will be alot of corporate lobbying and the money that comes with it since this establishes a greated basis for regulation by congress of the health care industry. They are players in the same game and when all you own is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

We had a chance to be trasformational, they are being offered a chance to change players in the same game. I'm sure some are hoping that more can be gained in conference. In the end the differenc to them between nothing, and this was inconsequential and so they chose to kick the can down the road. For those of us who have been cut out of the game for a long time, and won't get to play in this one, it's a do nothing bill.

[Stinky The Clown]

26. I honestly think they're doing it "for the greater good" of the party.

The fact is, we are where we are. There are may reasons we're about to partake of this shit sandwich. The people and groups you cite, which far from happy, are hoping to protect the party from a midterm devastation.

I honestly think there will be some internal blowback about this. Right now they're being good soldiers. I don't take any of the overt attitude change as a fundamental shit in their actual views.

The bill sucks. They know it sucks. We know it sucks. They know we know it sucks and they know we know they know it sucks. I would bet anything none of them will be accepting invites to Christmas dinner at the Obama's.

There will be a price to pay.

[berni_mccoy]

30. lol, I might take you up on your wager, but we'd have to get specific

about some of the names and what Christmas dinner means. :P

[Stinky The Clown]

33. I guess I did make a challenge for a bet there, didn't I?

Uh ....... never mind! :rofl:

[MikeE]

27. My thought is...

that once something gets passed, then the focus will be off of it. At that point ammendments can be added to cap premiums, increase regulation and even possibly add a public option.

As dissapointed as I am with the current bill, this is the first of many bills to come, and we must elect more progressives so that even more change can come.

[Armstead]

29. They are trying to do the best with the shitty hand theyve been dealt

Whistling in the graveyard and all that...

Combined with a desire to unify to get somnething anything

And a case of Stockholm Syndrome

[Freddie Stubbs]

31. Unlike Nelson and Lieberman, they lack spines

[Kingofalldems]

46. What a hero your boy is!!!

Wow!

[Freddie Stubbs]

55. Certainly not my hero!

[Freddie Stubbs]

56. Is he your hero?

:shrug:

[Kingofalldems]

53. Bookmark this one

In case of future lies.

[Freddie Stubbs]

57. You would certainly know about those

[old mark]

34. There are not enough progressives in Congress to make very much difference.

They wildly overstate their position to get at least some of what they want in the bill. It will pass in some better form, will be signed and will be improved over time.

mark

[Echo In Light]

35. They can fully count on Americans doing nothing in reaction to being routinely fucked over

[ipaint]

37. They where pushing for a few more crumbs.

In a system controlled by corporations and money, that's all the power we have and all the faux reform we are likely to get.

It's pretty pathetic but the comfy, much pandered to middle class and above is convinced the polluted process is indicative of a functioning democracy so the rest of us get dragged along...for now anyway.

[Odin2005]

38. They got fed with pork for their states.

[Dr Fate]

39. Because unlike Blue Dogs & DLC Purists, progressives actually do compromise all the time.

n/t

[whatchamacallit]

42. They're doing it to vindicate you of course

Fail.

[WT Fuheck]

44. fear, coersion, intimidation, "hope" that the few good things

in the bill will stay there, and that the magic fairy will sprinkle progressive dust on all the people who gave us this sodden piece of crap, suddenly changing everything so that it will be improved into real reform, its focus will completely shift to care instead of insurance, and the 2010 midterms won't shrink majorities that already are impotent.

Someone, or $omething got to them.

That arm twisting the Obamacites in the White House refused to use on Baucus, Stupak, Lieberman and Nelson just got used AGAINST THE LEFT.

[SOCALS]

45. If they fall in line,

then they are not progressives but opportunists and are more despicable than Republicans who at least do not pretend to be something they are not

[Fire1]

47. You're wrong that the bill is worse than the status quo. n/t

[HuckleB]

48. Have you been out of the house in the last 50 years?

That has to be one of the most ludicrous statements I've ever read.

[Fire1]

49. Then you haven't been on DU lately. Just because you

don't agree with someone doesn't mean their statement is "ludicrous."

[HuckleB]

50. In general, no, but in this case it does.

[Fire1]

51. To each his own. n/t

[libertypirate]

52. Rahmbo - I am sure he has been very threatening. Sad

the guy is the problem that Obama failed to see. Rahm is not the change I voted, in fact he is the exact opposite of what I voted. Once hired the president changed course towards the DLC. It is not rocket science people.

He who controls the bubble controls the perception of the president.

[TorchTheWitch]

54. arm twisting

Go along or lose your career. No party money for you. We'll run someone we like better against you and back them with party money. No chairmanships for you. Go along or stand in the corner like a dust ball for the rest of your term.

[Armstead]

58. It;s called Party Unity -- Too bad it didn't happen sooner when it coulda made a difference