Do you change your position when someone likens it to a "Freeper"

[bling bling]

It's one of the most widely and ubiquitously used retorts that I see around here. How many times have you expressed an opinion about something and got a response that said something along the lines of "I thought only freepers felt that way." Do arguments like that ever cause you to change your position?

Just curious how effective that type of argument has been for others. And if that's not effective, I wonder what would be. What's the best way to get you to change your opinion? Not that I'd want to....

[Colobo]

1. Of course not. It's a childish rebuttal.

[Monkeyman]

2. No I am who I am all the time

[Vincardog]

3. Does it happen often?

[bling bling]

16. I've seen it on the Alec Baldwin threads about 10 minutes ago. For example

Along the lines of 'I thought only right-wingers would care about Alec Baldwin's personal life.' That's just an example and I don't have any desire to call anyone out. I was just wondering how effective an argument like that really is around here.

[acmavm]

4. Hell no. Nor when 'they' use that other favorite retort when they don't

have anything else to use: racist.

[tularetom]

5. Shit no. It's my position. If freepers want to adopt it OK by me.

[Bluebear]

6. I don't see that charge being widely and ubiquitously used.

I must be reading different threads :)

[bling bling]

10. I see it all the time.

Maybe ubiquitous was an exaggeration. I tend to get carried away...

But I do see it at least a few times a day. Maybe I'm on this board too much....

[Uben]

7. Nope, never will

I am a conservative democrat....yes we exist! I am a fiscal conservative, but somewhat more liberal on social issues. I think that is a yellow dog, but I don't keep track of monikers.

After 52 yrs, I am pretty set in my ways, and the only opinion I am concerned about is my own!
I am a hard-core democrat, though. After 8 yrs of Reagan, and four of GHW BUsh, there is no way I will ever vote republican. Every time a republican got elected, I got laid off....1981, 1985, and 1991. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the pattern. Every time a democrat was elected, my life got markedly better. No-brainer there folks!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

8. Kind of a Freeperish post, ain't it?

:grr:

[bling bling]

11. Oh my goodness you're right. I was wrong and I apologize.

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

:)

[KG]

9. never been accused of that. but, i've been called a 'far fringe leftist' like it was a bad thing

:hi:

[bling bling]

12. Yes, I've seen that many times too. Tell me, did that change your position?

[KG]

17. i think you missed the sarcasm. i am a 'far fringe leftist' and getting leftier every day...

i think it's funny when centrists and DLCers think they can get my goat by calling me that. :hi:

[bling bling]

18. You far fringe leftists are as bad as the far right.

Something like that? Either way the method is to try to shame you into changing your opinion, whether it's by saying something like that OR by likening your opinion to being that of a freeper.

If that doesn't work, I wonder what the most effective way would be to get someone to change their opinion or position on something. If anything.

[KG]

19. i long ago gave up trying to point out the obvious to the willfully obtuse.

makes for a much more enjoyable existance. :hi:

[Individualist]

37. "willfully obtuse"

I like that! By now you'd think those who direct labels and worn out memes at those who disagree with them would realize they're not going to change minds with those tactics, yet they just keep on keeping on. Willfully obtuse. :)

[JVS]

13. absolutely

[bling bling]

14. Noted for future reference. Thanks.

;)

[Skidmore]

15. Nope. I don't change my opinion. I just don't talk about it anymore

on the board. There are a couple of topics that I don't talk about anymore, because you get shut down immediately. I think they are important and I think that common sense should rule the day where these topics are concerned. I just don't talk about them here.

[TahitiNut]

20. Such name-calling is usually an indication that the individual has adopted an orphan opinion ...

... and that person has no idea who the parents are - i.e. has absolutely no reasoned and ethical foundation for that position. Furthermore, it often betrays an abject inability to see how a person could take another perspective and base it on ethical and reasoned principles - even when stated. I see a LOT of people who almost automatically equate another opinion to something evil and hateful ... and it happens VERY frequently in the 'discussions' on immigration and illegal aliens. The only syndrome I can detect is that there's a kind of Disneyland-esque equation of some 'angelic' posture and anyone opposing it must be demons - in other words, it's totally simplistic and visceral, not reasoned.

OTOH, when someone comes in and peddles such things as Social Security privatization or Iraq had WMDs or Saddam collaborated with al Qaeda ... I hit Alert. There's NO WAY that's not a FReeper ... or so brain-dead that banning them is a way of maintaining the DU community's health.

[bling bling]

21. I remember once you changed my opinion on something.

I was ranting and raving and spewing obscenities at someone over a discussion involving Israel. Maybe you didn't change my opinion but you made me take a step back and realize I was being out of line.

I definitely need to be pulled back in line sometimes. It's good for me.

[TahitiNut]

24. Thanks. I think it's the best we can aspire to - merely to let others appreciate another perspective

It has been a gift to me, in my life, when others assist me to appreciate the opposite perspective even when I don't choose to subscribe to it. Over time, in a few instances, I've even chosen to change my opinion over time ... on the death penalty, for example (now totally against it) ... or in the legalization of pot (now in favor) or prostitution (now in favor).

I really don't believe we should EVER expect to 'flip' someone's opinion - it's disrespectful of their life experience. The only way an opinion worth valuing should be changed is through the accumulation of such experience and assisting in seeing ethical and principled grounds for doing so.


For example, I don't have to try to destroy the right-to-lifer's opinion that a fetus is human life in order to argue that there's no CIVIL/GOVERNMENTAL interest in it until it becomes a born person (i.e. immigration certificate into life itself). Thus, I argue, that the mother is like a sovereign Queen over her 'subject' and, while we can use diplomacy and foreign aid, we can't legitimately impose OUR (moral) laws on her sovereign territory - that way there be dragons.

So, appreciating the foundation for another perspective is, I believe, very important. In doing so, we can even more freely choose our own and more effectively assist others in developing theirs. It does NOBODY a service to ascribe their opinion to something malicious. In the (few?) instances it's true, name-calling does no good either.


(Of course that doesn't mean I don't get my ire up and do a bit myself, either.) :evilgrin:

[bling bling]

32. That's a wise way to look at things.

I aspire to think more like that some day without having to make a conscious effort. It's truly a goal of mine to find myself WISER someday and not just older. I've come a long way from my teens and twenties but I definitely have a long way to go.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

22. I know I am a "bad liberal"

It doesn't really bother me,

[Clark2008]

23. Hell no.

I know there are people on this board more liberal than I and I also know I severely dislike one of the presidential candidates who has a semi-large following on this board. But I also know I'm a liberal, if even a moderate one on SOME issues, so that terminology just makes me laugh.

[devilgrrl]

25. No. The ones tagging others as freepers are usually freepers.

Everytime I had one of those comments thrown at me here - the poster who made the comment was eventually tombstoned.

[deadmessengers]

34. Heh, you must not get accused of that often n/t

:)

[porphyrian]

26. I don't change my position at all because of what others think or say.

I pretty much don't give a shit at all what others think of my position on anything.

[depakid]

27. So you're not interested in feedback & discussion?

Just spouting off? 'Cause that's what it sounds like.

Personally, I learn a lot from people here- and more than once have rethought my positions based on facts other posters brought to light- or flaws they've pointed out in my analysis- or simply because all of a sudden....

:think:

Wow. I never thought of it that way.

[porphyrian]

29. Nope, I didn't say that. You did.

I say whatever I want when I feel like it. Other people can do the same. I get feedback and engage in discussions all the time. What I don't do is censor what I post because some other anonymous asshole might not like it - I don't really give a fuck.

[BlooInBloo]

28. No DUer changes his or her position - it's against the rules.

[havocmom]

30. Name calling never changed my mind on anything.

Now, well reasoned debate, backed up by some sound evidence, presenting a facet to an issue I had missed before, yeah, THAT can change my opinion.

Getting NEW evidence/information can change my opinion.

Name calling just enlarges my ignore list. Life is too short to waste time trying to debate someone who's got nuttin. ;)

[patricia92243]

31. Really never been a problem, because my opinions are not Freeperish. I can't imagine WHY Freeperish

people are on this board - in order to have their opinions changed. If anybody has a drop of Freeper in them, why would they want to be here? Go to Freeperville.

[deadmessengers]

33. I get accused of that all the time

Don't really care, either. I don't walk in lockstep with the Democratic party (I think for myself, thank you very much), but, at the end of the day, the Democrats represent my beliefs better than any other party. I've voted Repugnican once in my life, and that's only because the Democratic incumbent running for re-election was so disastrously bad he HAD to go.

[Evoman]

35. Yes...I had to change from the missionary position when someone told me thats a freeper position.

It doesn't bother me all that much :p

[Igel]

36. If ad hominem attacks are the best somebody can do ...

Exactly *why* should I bother to change my position?

I mean, really. If a person's as good as shouting to the world that s/he thinks there's no counterargument by resorting to such puerile antics ... oops ... tactics, and can't even think of a cogent reason for me to change my views, who am I to argue?

[Marrah_G]

38. Nope, it's silly to think all Dems agree on every issue

And to those who scream "freeper" and other petty little insults, it is my opinion they do so because that's all they got. I have my own views, the majority of which fit with other progressive Dems. On those things we disagree on. Oh well, that is life. The beauty of being an American, freedom to speak your own mind, regardless of what the "crowd" thinks.

[Zhade]

39. There is a legitimate concern with the charge, even if unfounded.

There are some here who hold flat-out unsupported opinions - like that Iraq was a threat, when we all know it was not.

To insist, despite being shown the truth, that Iraq was a threat is somewhat freeperish, in that freepers hold this same unevidenced opinion.

While name-calling is not helpful (I own up to my own share here), being reminded that freepers also have foolish notions like "Iraq had WMDs" can serve as a way to shake you up and make you re-examine the issue.

It all comes down to intent. If I say "you're a freeper fuck" versus "freepers think the same thing, and they're wrong too and here's why" - which advances knowledge, and which blocks it?

I think we know the answer.

[pampango]

40. RW talking point... to... freeper... to... fascist.

Sometimes the first characterization thrown out is "MSM spin" rather than spouting a RW talking point. I've often that progress to "freeper" allegations, if the poster does not see the error of his/her ways. The "fascist" has only bestowed in a few instances after much aggravation.

[LoZoccolo]

41. No.

I change my position when I have reason to do so.

[treestar]

42. I might consider it, at least, because freepers use a lot of logical fallacies

And I would at least check to see if I was using one. "Arguing like a freeper," usually means using logical fallacies and emotional reactions rather than good arguments. It stems from the unfortunate idea that only freepers would do this, but that's not necessarily always true. They do it much more, though.