Can anything destroy the Democratic Party faster than a phony "reform" that destroys the middle...

[Faryn Balyncd]

....class?


Than a president who claims to be for a "public option", but who in fact is responsible for pressuring the Senate to drop it, so that a naked mandate to buy insurance from predatory insurance corporations could be passed, and he could clain to have "gotten health reform done"?

[StreetKnowledge]

1. I'm beginning to think not.

But then again, the American aristocrats want both parties to represent them, and would shit bricks if anybody actually represented the other 90% of us. So everybody gets paid off, or at least enough people to ensure things go their way. And people wonder why hatred of Congress is becoming not just a right-wing ideal......

[WeDidIt]

2. You're going to be disappointed when the Middle Class does just fine with this bill

aren't you?

[Sukie]

6. I believe he will be, along with all the other

whineleaders on DU.

[ixion]

7. our vanishing, maxed out, stressed out, debt laden middle class, happy with

what amounts to a massive tax increase?

Oh yeah, they're going to be giddy. :rofl:

[WeDidIt]

8. The vast majority of the Middle class already have insurance

Fail.

[ixion]

12. and won't they be happy when they see their rates go through the roof

oh yeah. I can here the celebration now. :eyes:

[WeDidIt]

13. Man, you just can't stop the bullshit, can you?

:eyes:

But wallow in your whinefest. This is the single most progressive piece pf legislation in over forty years.

[ixion]

14. hey, you can spew all the spin you can handle

that doesn't change what's going to happen.

Your view of the middle class is over-simplified, at best.

[WeDidIt]

15. I believe it is your view that is over-simplified

and you're the one spinning.

And using rightwingnut spin at that!

[ixion]

16. lol

it's called common sense, not spin.

As I said before, we shall see.

[Hannah Bell]

28. lol. since before 1969? doubtful.

[mdmc]

18. like me

but I guess I am working poor, not middle class.

I have health insurance that I cannot utilize due to high co-payments. If I had unlimited income I would have excellent health care. But right now all I have is private health insurance that I cannot afford to utilize.

[Warren Stupidity]

24. And *eventually* standardization will improve your crappy insurance

[mdmc]

25. I pray to God that you are correct

I am willing to take the hit, the higher co-payments, the lack of coverage, if it means a VICTORY for Obama.
It would be icing on the cake if Obama's victory also benefited me. That would be great!

I am proof that the status quo must change (insured but not making enough money to access healthcare).

[amborin]

30. they'll be taxed more and more on it; as opposed to taxing the rich to pay for it;

[Larkspur]

9. When you are disappointed that the health insurance companies screw the Middle Class with this bill

are you going to be disappointed?

[WeDidIt]

11. The vast majority of the middle class already have insurance

through their employers.

For those that don't, many will get a subsidy.

You're just pissed that Obama is about to have a HUGE victory.

[mdmc]

19. Other then giving Obama a victory, how does this help me?

I have health insurance through my employer, but I don't earn enough to pay for my co-payments.
How does this help me. I grew up middle class, but I guess I am now working poor.:shrug:

ps- I am down with Obama having a victory. I am down with him getting a bump from Afghanistan. I am down with him getting campaign cash from corporations. I am down with his re-election.

[amborin]

31. they'll now be taxed....rather than taxing the wealthy

[amborin]

32. rising Taxes on middle income Wages:

"The excise tax, (which is not in the House bill) which the CBO itself says will affect 19% of people with employer-provided insurance in 2016. In 2019, six years after this bill takes effect, the excise tax will affect one in five taxpayers making $50-$75,000 per year, and the average tax impact on this bracket will rise to $1,100 a year in 2019.
In addition, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS, another CBO-like organization) predicts that the excise tax will actually make coverage worse for very little return in savings.

In reaction to the tax, many employers would reduce the scope of their health benefits. The resulting reductions in covered services and/or increases in employee cost-sharing requirements would induce workers to use fewer services. Because plan benefit values would generally increase faster than the threshold amounts for defining high-cost plans (which are indexed by the CPI plus 1 percent), over time additional plans would become subject to the excise tax, prompting those employers to scale back coverage.

The savings?

This excise tax, which would reduce the quality of millions of Americans’ health insurance coverage, will technically "bend the cost curve" by just barely 0.3% in 2019. All that for a measly 0.3% reduction in national health expenditures. To give you a comparison, CBO projects that Dorgan’s drug re-importation would reduce spending on prescription drugs roughly $100 billion over the next decade (I think the savings could easily end up 4-5 times that amount). A $10 billion reduction in prescription drug spending compared to the total NHE spending last year, which was roughly $2.4 trillion in 2008, would be a 0.4% reduction in NHE. "

[mdmc]

17. Please tell me how I will be fine under this bill

I work f/t earn $30k and have insurance through my employer.
I cannot afford the treatment that my medical providers state I need because my health insurance requires co-payments that I cannot afford.
So I HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE, but I CANNOT AFFORD MEDICAL TREATMENT. Because my co-pays are too expensive for my limited income to cover.

So how will I be fine under this bill? What relief will I receive?

[2 Much Tribulation]

3. ANSWER: No. Or not much can do it faster than that. nt

[Skink]

4. Did I not say Obama is very conservative.

[TheWraith]

5. If only what you describe were at all similar to reality. nt

[cali]

10. none of us have the vaguest clue as to what this legislation will do

will it help people access decent care? will it hurt them?

We. Just. Don't. Know.

[Warren Stupidity]

20. How does this bill destroy the middle class?

[Warren Stupidity]

22. The rampant overblown rhetoric here has become ridiculous.

83% of us already have insurance through one mechanism or another and we will not be affected much other than perhaps less bullshit from the insurance managers, a reduction in price inflation, a reduction in out of pocket expenses, improved and standardized benefits, etc.

The 17% who have no insurance will now at least have affordable access to insurance. Currently they do not have that at all.

[B Calm]

21. When the democratic majority dumps NAFTA, this will all be forgotten. . .

[HuckleB]

23. How is the middle class being destroyed?

The other day it was the middle and the working classes that were going to be destroyed, so are you saying that the working class will be just fine?

:shrug:

[Faryn Balyncd]

27. Well, it hasn't passed yet.........

...But a mandate to purchase an overpriced product from predatory corporations, with no option to purchase from a public plan, and no option to buy-in to a fairly priced plan such as Medicare, and (in part because of the lack of such public options) the prospect of escalation of now-mandated premiums will each be another potential nail in the coffin.

[HuckleB]

33. In other words, you're making a lot of assumptions, instead of a legitimate critique.

Thanks for clarifying.

[Faryn Balyncd]

35. What assumptions?

[notesdev]

26. I can think of a few things

which are already on the agenda

[EmeraldCityGrl]

29. No one has addressed whether mandated insurance is

constitutional. I'm not a constitutional scholar, but this feels very wrong.

[Barack_America]

34. Intractable wars, economic meltdowns and sex scandals...

Have been bigger party killers, historically speaking.

[Nay]

36. Nope. I really hate saying "I told you so" a million fucking times after

all this SIMPLE ASS SHIT has to be explained to politicians every time. I've come to the conclusion that other dynamics are at work -- like corruption and sociopathic personalities.