DOA

[Cleita]

Health care reform. Our Merry Christmas present from Congress. Sorry that I am so cynical.

[Electric Monk]

1. the operation was a success, but the patient died?

I'm withholding judgement until it's all finalized and ratified, it could still change.

[begin_within]

3. Literally, in many cases, I'm afraid.

[tblue]

4. The patient died, but the worms were fed. nt

[Cleita]

14. Yes, parasites do live off of the dead, decaying corpses, don't they? n/t

[Cleita]

11. It will be finalized exactly the way it is today.

I'm sorry I'm so cynical.

[Individualist]

16. You're not cynical; you're realistic.

[Motown_Johnny]

2. Rachel Maddow disagrees, she thinks it is a done deal

and her baseball analogy was rather clear about that


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#34517261

[Cleita]

5. Oh it was a done deal when single payer was wiped off the table by

Nancy Pelosi at the very beginning. While congress screwed around without single payer, but maybe a possible public option, the Senate had the set up to totally dump the rest of it.

[EFerrari]

7. Yep. It's a done, done deal.

What a shame.

[Old Codger]

6. Pretty much

A done deal, we need to accept that we cannot stop this from happening. We need to refocus our efforts toward a continual flood of new health care bills that amend the one they are going to pass. I am somewhat heartened by new info coming out that seems to point in that direction, I am an inveterate optimist regardless of my old age... I am seriously disappointed in how things have gone in Obama's first year, but hope for better...

[Tansy_Gold]

17. How do we amend it?

Seriously -- what constituent parts can be extracted from the bill, reworked/revamped/modified, and then be reinserted without affecting the whole?

Assume it passes in some form reasonably (sic) similar to the existing senate bill. Are there segments that can be separated and dealt with piecemeal, or is everything so tied together that one alteration affects another in a grotesque chain reaction?

One of my concerns from the start has been that if this bill represents the foundation of ultimate change (and yes, I now gag on the word) toward true universal health care, is it such an integrated system of itself that it's not easily modified in small increments?

For example, can the anti-trust exemption be overturned without requiring other changes at the same time?

As was posted in another thread on this subject, one of the issues the insurance companies are facing is the upcoming loss of the babyboom generation. The first of us will turn 65 in 2011, and by 2014, the shift to Medicare will be in full flood. As the insurance companies lose this revenue stream, they have to replace it. Now, they could have done it on their own by making their products worthwhile and affordable. They could also have done it by encouraging companies to keep their operations in the U.S. instead of China, Mexico, and Madagascar so the workers would be insured. But they didn't do that, so now they have to manufacture a means to funnel revenue to their CEOs.

Remember, it's not about providing health CARE to anyone; it's only about getting people on the policy and paying the premiums.

I would not be surprised to see many employers, especially relatively small ones, drop health insurance benefits altogether and dump their employees on the street so to speak. With unemployment at 10% (yeah right) it's an employer's market right now. Benefits or not, jobs are scarce enough and few people will be willing to give up what they have just for benefits. They'll be thrown into the pool with little to no knowledge of how much their employer used to pay toward their policy.

I would not be surprised, as the economic recovery fails to materialize, to see Medicare benefits severely cut (except in NEbraska, Vermont, and Florida, apparently) and a subsequent campaign by the for-profit insurance companies to provide more and more supplemental insurance for those over 65. They may even offer "conversion" packages for those who retire before age 65 and want to slide right from employer-paid insurance to Medicare supplemental.

Again, my objection to the bill is that it appears to strengthen the enemy far more than it benefits the people, thus making future attempts at real reform even more difficult.

I guess we'll see.


TG

[Old Codger]

21. Good points

BUT , From what I have heard the anti trust exemption is gone, and medicare is a federal program not state. As far as the baby boomers go they should be more than glad to see that happen as it gets the high risk group out of their mainstream policies and opens up a large area for more "Medi-Gap policies that may not be as restricted as mainstream policies.. all of this is of course tentative as we have no real idea what the final bill will contain..

edited for spelling

[Laelth]

9. A done BAD deal, perhaps.

Personally I still have hope that the Progressive Caucus will fight it or that Obama will veto it. I must hang on to that hope. Only when Obama signs it will it be over.

Kill the bill.

Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the answer to a failed health care system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.

:dem:

-Laelth

[Cleita]

12. Sorry, Laelth, Obama will sign it as it arrives on his desk.

He can't otherwise because he is a politician and thinks like one.

[Nikki Stone1]

20. +1

...

[Laelth]

24. I concede that you are proably right. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[Sebastian Doyle]

8. We was broke and hungry on a summer day

They sent the cheerleaders down to try and drive us away.
We was sittin' ducks for the insurance man.
They found a fucked up "reform" bill in a garbage can.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0XdzSMzwgw

[Cleita]

15. ...

:thumbsup:

[HuckleB]

10. That's not cynicism.

Cynicism needs to look at the object of derision with honesty first.

[Cleita]

13. And you can reach into my mind and decide how honest I am?

Your post is ridiculous in its concept and meant to be disruptive. But we know that.

[HuckleB]

18. Your OP is ridiculous.

Start with yourself, and then worry about others.

[Cleita]

19. Do you have a reason for what you do?

You go from post to post arguing with people just because you want to be contrary. It's not like you have a cause you care about. It's just anybody, any cause for you to stir the opposition pot about. I do hope you are paid because if you are doing this for fun, you are very sick.

[Dogtown]

23. True observation, Cleita

Huck is an indiscriminate shit-stirrer.

[mmonk]

22. No problem. The truth sometimes makes people cynical.