Oklahoma Couple Want to Return Troubled Adopted Son to State

[Are_grits_groceries]

11-year-old is Violent Towards Other Children, Has Killed Animals and Runs Away Regularly, Parents Say

Melissa and Tony Wescott are afraid of their son. They're so afraid of the boy they adopted that they're trying to have Oklahoma law changed so that they can return him to the state's care.

"He tried to burn our home down. The note said, 'I'm sorry you had to die,'" Melissa Wescott told "Good Morning America."

She said she and her husband have found butcher knives under his mattress and lights hidden in his bedroom.

The Wescotts' 11-year-old son has been locked up in a psychiatric hospital in Tulsa, Okla., for nearly a year. But now doctors say he's not a danger to himself or anyone else, and the boy is scheduled to be released from the hospital next month.

Despite the doctors' opinion, the Wescotts say they are so afraid of having him back home that Melissa plans to stay awake at nights while her husband sleeps.

Adopted Son Diagnosed with Several Mental Health Disorders
The trouble started shortly after the couple -- who couldn't have children of their own -- adopted the boy in 2007. His behavioral problems became so severe that he needed inpatient care.

Within a year of the adoption, the Wescotts told the Tulsa World, the child was diagnosed with reactive detachment disorder, disruptive behavior disorder, major depressive disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder and fetal alcohol syndrome.

The parents said the boy became violent toward other children and nonresponsive to adults, hurt and killed animals and ran away regularly, requiring help from police.

So they're trying to return him to the care of the state's Department of Human Services, but the state says adoptive parents should be treated no different from birth parents.
<snip>
DHS disclosure documents call the child "well-behaved" and "polite and well mannered." He is described as "respectful toward authority" and "makes friends easily." The papers say he has no "significant behavioral problems which would be considered abnormal for a child his age."

There's a lot more: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Parenting/tony-melissa-wescott-oklahoma-return-adopted-son/story?id=9387389&page=1

They need help. If what they say is documented, then it sounds like DHS tried to get over on them. That child didn't suddenly turn into a juvenile monster.

[goldcanyonaz]

1. What a nightmare. I would agree with your assessment in regards to DHS.

A couple that my husband works with adopted a young girl a few years ago who had been severely sexually abused.

They weren't given any history on her other than she was 'neglected' but not to the extent that they later found out.

The poor child (who is 10 now) would constantly masterbate and act very sexual to any male figure.

Thankfully, they have insurance and the child is undergoing psychotherapy 3 times per week.

[Odin2005]

27. OMG, poor girl!

:(

[MrsBrady]

2. i have a friend who was adopted at 7ish then returned a few years later...

she has horrible abandonment issues....and who wouldn't.
She never had behavior problems, just very unlucky about getting good parenting.
She basically grew up in state care. I forget which state, though.

Lovely person, though. Talented artist.

She's had to do a lot of personal work, though.
I don't think she's been able to keep healthy romantic relationships.

So sad..

[Tailormyst]

4. Sorry to hear about your friend

I have the same issues, but I was much younger when it started. People don't understand how important bonding is at a young age. I suffer from both a huge fear of letting anyone emotionally close, including my children, yet at the same time I am terrified of being "left". My adoptive parents did as much as they could, but I'm broken in a way that can't be fixed. I'm fortunate to have great kids and a man who loves me enough to work through my fears over and over, no matter how irrational they are.

[havocmom]

3. or, the kid is VERY smart and is playing DHS for fools

There have been more than a handful of very bright, VERY manipulative sociopaths. Sounds like this youngster may be adroit at working the system.

While I agree adopted kids need security and to be able to count on adoptive parents, it might serve the public good to have a method of dealing with extraordinary cases. And agency staffers' opinions should be subject to some other agency oversight. Some very dangerous people can be most clever about fooling people. Lots of review might be safer for all involved.

[LeftyMom]

5. What would they do if they had a biological child with those kind of issues?

Sometimes kids are messed up and there's no apparent reason for it. Would they be sitting around saying "damn, I'm sure glad we kept the receipt!" or would they suck it up and deal with their kid's issues?

[Coventina]

6. Very good question. What is to be done about young sociopaths?

No matter what the source?

I'm trying to imagine what I would do about having a child that killed animals and tried to kill me.

What a nightmare.

[old mark]

44. Well, I have spent years working with adult sociopaths and there is

nothing at all to be done with them except mandatory injected medication and lifetime residence in a locked facility.
This kid seems pretty advanced for his age - I would not want to be anywhere near him, much less in the same house attempting to sleep.

I think the Agency lied to them to fulfill some legal requirement to get him out of their locked system. It's done all the time - state legislatures frequently pass laws "liberalizing" or "tightening" mental health procedures for political reasons, with little understanding of the reality or consequences of what they are doing....surprise, huh?


mark

[Hepburn]

46. +1

Yes, I have unfortunately seen this before. The state agency willfully withheld info from adopting parents ~~ with horrible results.

[Larry Ogg]

48. Why would things like psychology and science be politicized? Could it be that

research shows http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-2684-Law-Enforcement-Examiner~y2009m6d12-Serial-killers-and-politicians-share-traits "> serial killers and politicians share traits; which explains why there is so much political turmoil in the world, and why the elite predator class is allowed to plunder and murder throughout the world with impunity; and then with all that ill-gotten gain they can buy and own the mainstream media, finance political campaigns, and put the kind of people in office who are amenable to their ways.

I’ve even heard it suggested that this is the reason that empires throughout history have always collapsed into ruin; because psychopaths end up taking over the powerful social infrastructures that society depends on. But then they want more and before you know it’s war time…

[old mark]

49. Science has little to do with it. running a chain of hospitals involves a lot of money

and there is profit to be made, and politicians to be lobbied. Patients well being is low on the list.


Actually politicians and business leaders sometimes share traits with sociopaths.

mark

[Larry Ogg]

50. So in what capacity do you work with these unsuccessful sociopaths?

I.e. the ones that got caught…

And what do you think about individuals like Hitler / Nixon / Bush / Cheney et al? And what do you know about the US backed brutal tyrannies throughout the world, and what do you know about the affects on an unsuspecting honest society - when a few sociopaths become politicians, business leaders, clergy, lawyers, judges, police men, doctors and even psychologist?

Of course hospitals need lots of hard to come by money! So what do you know about our debt based monetary system? How much fraud, corruption, secret deals, bribery, blackmail, spilled blood etc. went into its creation, so as its private stock holders can legally counterfeit money, charge its borrower interest, inflate or deflate its value and supply, thus giving the banksters the power to mold the political landscape with their bought and paid for political puppets that turn these sociopaths loose onto the unsuspecting public?
Larry

[old mark]

55. I was working in a state mental hospital observing and monitoring

several people with a treatment team - the group I had when I left included 4 murderers and several child molesters (male and female) and arsonists as well as several other people. Certainly not all of them were sociopaths.Our ultimate aim was to get them out of the institution into a smaller independent place, under 24 hour supervision, a job I certainly would never want.

I'm ignoring the remainder of your rant.

mark

[frustrated_lefty]

8. That's a good question, and it cuts to the crux of the issue.

As a younger man, I felt certain that any responsible parent could "fix" any child's issue with patience, love and understanding. Notice I said "younger..." I was a lot more optimistic then.

I married a woman with three kids. One has Aspergers, another has/had fetal alcohol syndrome, and the third and oldest....let's get to that in a second.

The woman and I had a child of our own, a happy, healthy, intelligent, well-mannered young lady currently of the age of 9. When she was born, though, her eldest sister developed a habit of leaving steak knives on the ground. The eldest was busted for lighting fires in the house. We were thrown out of affordable housing because the eldest had sex with the neighbor's kid (roughly her age, not pedophilia). There's a long list of crap that child pulled. We put her in therapy, we went into group/family therapy. But, her behavior didn't change one whit.

Eventually, I was forced to consider the simple fact that this one child was actively endangering my newborn. Steak knives on the floor, with a toddler crawling?!

She ended up staying with a friend in CA when we moved, and then moving in with her grandmother when the friend's mother found out she was screwing the friend's dad (which was pedophilia).

The line for me was the point where she was willfully and knowingly endangering her family members, particularly a newborn incapable of defending herself.

Sometimes you get a really screwed up kid, through fostering or adopting. You can "fix" the kid if you are that wise and able, you can do nothing and let the problems percolate, or accept your failure and beg for help. And, sometimes that help means the child leaving your home.

[Tailormyst]

10. If it was their biological child they wouldn't be having these issues.

The state lied to them. They adopted a child with problems that run so deep they can't fix them. What would you have them do with a violent and homocidal child? I suppose we could wait until he kills one of them so he could them be committed. Don't be so quick to judge the parents.

[Johonny]

15. yeah that's what happen to my aunt

the disorders were a product of massive child abuse on the children by their real parents. By the time they were adopted their fate was already sealed. So the problems really wouldn't have been reproduced on a biological child. Very sad story.

[LeftyMom]

24. No way of saying.

While RAD in particular is almost exclusive to kids who were raised in the system or adopted as infants, the rest of those problems do crop up in kids with no particular risk factors from time to time.

My point is that having a kid is rolling the dice, whether you adopt, foster or go about it the messy biological way. Most of the time you get a kid with all the potential in the world, but every now and then one comes out with something wrong with them, and that's a risk that you take in becoming a parent, and have to be prepared to deal with somehow.

So based on the situation as explained I don't think it's at all inappropriate for the parents in this situation to insist that this kid needs inpatient care and is a danger to the remainder of their family, I do think giving him back to the state is horrifying and sure to further mess him up. Moreover, I don't think it's an option they would consider with a biological child, which suggests to me that they really weren't equipped to love this child unconditionally, and that's the surest way to further damage a damaged kid.

[Tailormyst]

36. If the child is homocidal it's different.

if the state has custody there are more options to treat it without risk to innocent lives. I was fortunate that I was not homicidal growing up. I have many of the other issues, but not the violence. Even as a newborn I found a way to express it through "failure to thrive". I was passed around in foster care for 6 months before being adopted by really great parents. I was never able to really bond with them though. I have a trouble bonding with anyone really, including my own children.

Bottom line is we need to care for these children as a society from the monent they are born, otherwise, bad things bad happen.

[Neecy]

11. it's a nightmarish system for anyone to navigate

I read a book some years ago written by Nancy Spungen's mother (Nancy of Sid and Nancy fame).

Her daughter exhibited signs of severe mental illness from the time she was a toddler. As she grew older, the entire family was afraid of her and even for an upper middle class family trying to navigate the mental health system to get her the help she needed was an unbelievable ordeal. And on top of it, there were pediatricians very early on who blamed the parents, when there was clearly a psychological issue at work.

I feel for any parent going through this, especially with the threat of violence. The mental health system is bad enough for adults - it's completely sub-par for children.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

31. AND I DON'T WANT TO LIVE THIS LIFE - the book

Very good book. I read it back in the 80s. The movie certainly did not glorify drug use.

I believe they thought the daughter's mental problems were partially caused by birth trauma (forceps and extremely difficult labor, something like that). She was born in the early sixties, before c-sections were as common as they are now to prevent hypoxia and such in the baby.

I've met some law-abiding sociopaths/narcissists in my day. They are smart enough to be cruel to people but not get caught, and not do anything explicitly illegal.

[EFerrari]

12. I would refuse to pick him up from the hospital.

If his problems are as described, he is a danger to himself and others no matter what the @ssholes say who are trying to dump him back on parents who aren't equipped to deal with him.

You don't suck that up. You get it safe.

[BoneDaddy]

19. Not necessarily

Many kids may be very damaged prior to adoption and no amount of love will change that. These people may have started with good intentions but this has turned out to be a nightmare for them. Don't be so quick to judge them. Many of the kids in the foster/adoptive services are not able to maintain in the most supportive of homes. Sad situation.

[LeftyMom]

23. I know these situations pretty well- I used to work for a foster agency,

and a while before that I volunteered at an agency that dealt with teen mothers.

Trust me, I could tell you stories that would curl your hair.

[BoneDaddy]

37. I am sure you can

I, too, have been in the counseling/child care field for close to two decades now and there is no end to the stories I have heard.

[TorchTheWitch]

28. exactly what I was thinking

When you adopt a child you need to consider that child just as much your responsibility as if he or she were born to you. Parents of naturally born children accept what problems their children may have and so should adoptive parents.

Though I feel for these parents that they have a child they fear they got no guarantees when adopting him anymore than parents of naturally born children get and the very idea that they want to give him back and think they have a right to is digusting.

[verdalaven]

51. At this point, it is probably better for the child to not go back to them

I can't imagine a child with so many problems living in a home where he knows he is not welcomed, loved or supported. And the Mom saying she loves him......I am sorry, I don't believe that. I believe she might love the idea of him, but she does not love him. If she did, she wouldn't take their story to the media, or cooperate with the media in any way. Those parents revealed their desire to reject him to the entire world. How humiliating.

I think for the well being of this child, he should be removed from their home.

[Hekate]

34. If they're like other people I've known, they'd bankrupt themselves trying to get treatment....

... or search in vain for treatment even if they had lots of money.

It cost my chiropractor's receptionist her house when one of her daughters needed inpatient care for a year, and even then she wasn't exactly "cured." A rather wealthy colleague of mine's son had a psychotic break in late adolescence, and he and his wife searched in vain for help while the young man went ever further from reality and finally did something so heinous that he will spend the rest of his life locked up.

Rich or poor or middle class, affordable and *available* help for severe mental health issues is often just not there in this country.

But in the case of the parents in the OP and in the case of the woman I wrote about earlier who was saddled with a disturbed/violent teen -- I think there's people in the agencies who lied and covered up, and I think the parents have tried their best already and need LOTS of help, including being able to "send the kid back".

Hekate

[varelse]

52. I'm wondering who will take care of the kid when he succeeds in killing both of his adoptive parents

but maybe that's just me :shrug:

[Lance_Boyle]

7. Can't they just give him up for adoption?

Can't birth parents surrender their kids to the state? I don't see why these folks shouldn't be able to, as well.

[LisaL]

45. I don't think people would lining up wanting to adopt him.

It sounds like he got a lot of problems.

[1awake]

9. small correction..

its Reactive Attachment Disorder, not detachment

[1awake]

13. In my expreience,

Keeping specific information from being passed along to adoptive/foster family's is not uncommon. I have seen it done many times in various states.

If this child truly does have RAD, then they are right in being afraid. It requires specific treatments that can only be given by those trained and not by any therapist or Doctor with a degree regardless how good they may be. It will also be a very long and hard fought battle taking years well into adulthood. I wish them and the child luck.

[Barack_America]

14. Hopefully one of those experts will offer to examine the child.

[rocktivity]

16. That kid is a serial killer just begging to happen

One of Ted Bundy's babysitters said he once surounded her with knives. And there was a nine-year old girl on his paper route who is missing to this day.

Ninety-four percent of serial killers either tortured animals, set fires, or bedwet as children. He needs full-time medical supervision--and I don't think that re-introducing him to a home he tried to burn down is the best idea.

:(
rocktivity

[tammywammy]

20. Speaking of Ted Bundy

Because of this thread I was looking at RAD, since I've never heard of it.

http://www.attachment.org/pages_what_is_rad.php
Attachment Disorder that did not get help in time: Adolph Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Edgar Allen Poe, Jeffery Dahmer, and Ted Bundy. One famous person with Attachment Disorder who did get help in time (in 1887!) and became one of greatest humanitarians is Helen Keller



This is very sad for all involved, but it's best that he be in a permanent hospital with people that can help him at this point. The parents shouldn't take him back into his house if they're that scared. Let the DA file child abandoment charges on them, and let a jury try and convict them.

[NashVegas]

22. Maybe We Should Just Send Him Straight to the Chair, Then?

Wouldn't it be a mercy killing? It'll be a decade before this kid will even begin to be able to start straightening his own life out - if he hasn't already killed anyone before then.

:sarcasm: <--- kind of

[Ms. Toad]

38. Don't be so glib -

That's exactly where my sibling, adopted at age 3, ended up - 20+ years sitting outside the door to the death chamber. He came within 36 hours of being electrocuted before they commuted his sentence to life without parole.

My brother, adopted at age 4, recently joined him in the super max facility. He was actually far more injured before he joined our family, and spent his life from age 12 when he dropped out of school in and out of various juvenile and adult detention facilities and in-patient treatment facilities (and a bottle). We actually had hope last year that he had finally turned the corner (at around age 50) - he was invited to join the family for Christmas for the first time in years and it was quite pleasant. Shortly after that, and a knife fight in a bar later, he was back to what had been the norm for most of his life.

It should be mandatory for all parents adopting older children to meet with people who have been through the process and have emerged (20 or so years later) on the other side of the child rearing experience. It really is very different from starting with biological children (or children adopted as infants). There are far too many things that cannot be fixed by just pouring enough love on them. These children desperately need families - and more power to families that have the resources (of a variety of kinds) to invite them in, but the chances that embracing them in your family will be disastrous, not only for the children you are trying to help - but the rest of the family, friends, and neighbors as well - are high. No one should enter this lifelong relationship blinded to that reality (either by deliberate deceit or by unrealistic expectations about the power of love).

[LWolf]

17. How will returning them to the state help anything?

Regardless of who has custody, the boy needs long-term treatment. An alternate environment where he can get that treatment without risk to others.

If he is truly not a danger to himself or others, they should take him back. He's not a dog to be dropped off at the pound because he grew up to be a digger or chewer.

If his condition was as severe as portrayed, severe enough to be "locked up in a mental hospital," it's unlikely that he's suddenly a completely reformed person after a year. The obvious thing would be to put him in a less restrictive, but still fully theraputic environment, begin field trips and visits home to his parents, and help him adjust into living in a family and the rest of society. Over time, if his behavior warranted it, he could spend more and more time "out" until he was finally fully assimilated back into family, school, and outside life.

His parents would have plenty of opportunity to see changes and feel more comfortable. His school would have time to assimilate him, as well. They should have been in therapy along with him the entire year he was in the hospital, and continuing on after his release. It helps to educate care-givers about how to deal with all of those diagnoses.

What doctors would just dump him out of a mental hospital without that crucial support?

[TicketyBoo]

32. You have rather contradicted yourself.

the boy needs long-term treatment. An alternate environment where he can get that treatment without risk to others.

If he is truly not a danger to himself or others, they should take him back.

The adoptive parents do feel that he is a danger to them; they fear him. I don't think there is any way they can properly parent him with this (reasonable, considering his history) fear in their minds. I think it is the best interest of all concerned (including the child) that he not be returned to them.

I don't think it would be any different if someone's biological child were brain damaged in some way so as to make him violent. Many biological children who are so impaired are institutionalized. It is a tragedy, but it happens.

[LWolf]

40. The contradiction is this:

His doctors say he is not a danger to anyone.

I don't know enough about the mental hospital, the kind of treatment he got, or the doctors, to know if that is true.

His parents are afraid of him. I don't know if that is because they truly fear him, or because they just don't want to deal with him.

There's not enough information to form a judgment in either case.

I do know, though, that these kinds of mental/social/emotional issues don't resolve quickly or easily, and that if they ARE resolved effectively, it takes an extended period of time, including extended support and a gradual transition from a "safe" mental care facility to the rest of the world. You don't just release them from a mental institution abruptly into the real world. That's a recipe for disaster.

[Ms. Toad]

39. Fully assimilated back in to family, school, and outside life...

My brother (adopted at age 4) is around 50, and we're still waiting for the day he is no longer a risk to himself or others.

[LWolf]

41. Sometimes it isn't going to happen.

By age 4, some parts of the brain are hard-wired. And some opportunities to develop normal social functions are, as well.

Research shows that it is, in some cases, possible to over-ride, or re-wire, the brain over time, but it takes many years of intense therapy, a family working with the therapists to surround the child with different stimuli, and to avoid triggering old stimuli, and there are no guarantees as to how much change will occur.

My grandson is a case in point. He was with his birth mother, a socio-path herself, until my son was finally able to gain full custody when he was 4. He couldn't attend a regular school, he had to attend a county school for the mentally ill. There, he had a full time therapist, a very small group of people to interact with, a "safe" room for violent outbursts, and therapy and training for us in learning how to deal with him, because nothing that worked for "normal" children worked for him. When they thought he was ready, they spent 6 months transitioning him to a normal school; an hour a day with one of his teachers, then an hour a day without, then 2 hours, weekly meetings with teacher, admins, and school psychologist there, then a full 2 days a week, then 3, then 4, until he finally "graduated." They continue to keep him on a 504 plan to monitor his functioning and keep his future teachers informed.

He functions quite well, but not necessarily "normally." He is still emotionally immature, still has anger issues, and is still willing to fight beyond reasonable limits to get his own way. We know better how to address those things, and he has learned some control, so things don't go to extremes before they are resolved.

His issues haven't gone away. He's just learning to cope with them so he can function. I'm sorry about your brother. :(

[Ms. Toad]

42. That's kind of my point.

The assumption at the time by siblings were adopted at 2, 3, and 4 (back in the late 50's/early 60's) was that enough love and good parenting could cure everything.

We know better now. There is currently no excuse for less than full disclosure to potential adoptive parents about (1) problems a specific child is already known to have and (2) the general prospects/frequent outcomes for a child who was not raised in a stable, loving environment from birth through age 2 (or so).

I'm just kind of annoyed with people who should know better based on their professional background heaping blame on parents who were apparently lied to, and acting as if the parents are failures who probably shouldn't have been parents at all because, after all, even biological children can have problems and you wouldn't send them back where they came from. (NOT the poster I responded to - I erased too many flames that would have only gotten me in trouble trying to formulate a response to the post that really toasted me.)

Sorry about your grandson - but I'm glad they know more about how provide as much help as they can. My brother's problems were compounded by pretty severe sociopathy - and good "people sense" with people who are helper types. He was always looking out only for himself, and his ability to intuit the right thing to say to helper types who wanted to believe he was overcoming his problems meant he never stayed incarcerated/in treatment long enough to get any real help (not that it was really available during his childhood).

To the extent help is available, it has to be coupled with parents/caregivers who aren't fooled by compliance with the regime solely for personal benefit - i.e. good BS detection. Sounds as if your grandson is on the right track there.

[LWolf]

56. It's true that there is no "cure"

for sociopathy, even in children.

We are profoundly grateful for having reached my grandson in time to help repair some of the damage, although we are not blind to the issues he will carry forward into adulthood.

I'm often staggered by how much intensive time and energy and resources, on the part of so many, were necessary for just one...and there are so many children who NEED the same thing, and the resources just aren't there.

I agree that adoptive parents should be completely informed about a child's past, mental as well as physical health, and prospects BEFORE adopting.

I don't know about the particular instance in this OP; not enough information for me to take a side.

It's frustrating for all, without placing blame.

[GodlessBiker]

18. Maybe someone from DU's Gun Forum can give the couple some self defense tips.

They should take precautions.

[NashVegas]

21. Obviously, They Can't Help Him

This kid needs love and emotional support the size of Rhode Island to start getting his chemistry right.

[eridani]

25. Kid needs way more help than untrained average parents can give, IMO n/t

[Odin2005]

26. Holy Christ. That kid needs WAY more help then those parents are caprable of.

He needs to be institutionalized before he kills someone.

[Tumbulu]

29. Of course they should not take him back

they only had him one hellish year, and now they are terrified of him after he has been hospitalized for another year.

It sounds as though they made a mistake adopting, him, but it would be a bigger mistake to take him back. Especially if they are scared of him. Very bad situation for all of them, including the boy.

[proteus_lives]

30. Needs to be put in state-care now.

He's a ticking bomb. Defuse him before he kills someone.

[Hekate]

33. Nightmare scenario. I have friends & cousins who are adoptees, & happy people. And then...

... there was a friend of mine who lost her uterus young, and when she was in her 30s decided to adopt as a single parent. She told LA County adoptive services that being a single woman she would like a girl, and she wanted very much to love that child and nurture her. She was hoping for someone very young, like a toddler of any race or ethnicity. She was approved, passed with flying colors... and then they went to work on her to place an adolescent male with her.

When she told me this story she was still severely shaken -- and though I've lost touch with her over the years, I don't think this is the kind of thing that you get over.

Bottom line is, they lied. They worked her over until she said yes to this kid who she was assured had no deep emotional issues that couldn't be healed with a good home. He was a mess. He resented their racial differences, and that was just the start. He was abusive and bigger than she. He had severe emotional problems and acted out.

She tried for many, many months with that kid. The adoption, thank God, was not completed. But her sense of failure, her broken heart -- her broken spirit, haunted me for a long time. That agency had to have known what they were doing, and I think they were dumping an insoluble problem on her.

I understand that adoptees who are older than infants will naturally have some adjustment issues. Both my aunt and my niece (different branches of the family) adopted kids who were toddlers, and in both cases it took quite awhile for the little ones to stop grieving for their foster mom and decide to love their new mom.

But my friend, and the Wescotts -- there has to be some substantial help there, especially when you *know* that someone else *knew* there were severe and intractable problems with violence.

Hekate

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

35. their agressive all right,

Adoption was something me and my ex were interested in, since she had about as much enthusiasm for a pregnancy as a double mastectomy and ironically I didn't know it at the time but it turns out I am sterile.

We were interested in a child under five, she preferred a boy and it became abundantly clear we were not going to get one. As our relationship soured over unrelated issues we didn't really take it further - but everywhere we turned it was a hard sell for taking in a teenage criminal.

[LisaL]

43. I feel for these people. The child sounds way more than they

can handle.
And really, if the child knows they don't want to keep him, how would be good for the child to be placed back with them?
If it were up to me, I would want them to be able to give the child back.

[chrisa]

47. He's a sociopath

DHS disclosure documents call the child "well-behaved" and "polite and well mannered." He is described as "respectful toward authority" and "makes friends easily." The papers say he has no "significant behavioral problems which would be considered abnormal for a child his age."

Aren't most sociopaths superficially "well-behaved," and "polite and well mannered?" They're master manipulators, and are completely different behind closed doors. How is killing animals and trying to burn your own house down not abnormal?

[BreweryYardRat]

53. Well, they caught the problems relatively young, which is good.

Although it sounds like DHS knew about the issues and did nothing -- lazy fucks.

It's possible he might be redeemable, but he's right on the borderline. Another few years and he'd have had to be liquidated for everyone's safety. It might be possible with MAJOR therapy and medication, and the state keeping an eye on him for years afterward. But he shouldn't be outside of a mental institution anytime soon, if ever.

[JCMach1]

54. Don't automatically take the parents for their word either...

mark me a bit suspicious...