What is politics?

[The Backlash Cometh]

How do you define it? What was it forty years ago and how did it evolve?

Here's my thoughts on the subject.

Politics was meant to be the process of negotiation. Almost immediately, graft and corruption took over because we don't have any humanitarian examples in history where people barter for things that don't affect other people's lives -- not in government. We know this, yet we continue using the same process, voting people into higher office who are vulnerable to corruption because they have skeletons in their closet which nobody reported in the first place...or people who got elected into office because the other guy was more corrupt and had more skeletons.

So we have, basically, people who are charismatic at the top of office, who feel comfortable fucking us over -- or are too stupid to realize when someone is manipulating them.

That last part bothers me the most. Nobody who makes it into office should be naive at this time in our history. If some lawyer puts his arm around him and tells him, "don't worry buddy, we'll protect you", the politician should assume the worse. Nobody does anything for anybody else without expecting something in return. And if an attorney knows your secrets, especially if that attorney is a member of a chamber of commerce, admit it, you're owned.

That's politics. People bartering with all kinds of things that shouldn't be bartered with. And because our Criminal Justice System has been neutered, there's plenty to barter with.

For example, you have City Managers out there, (who are only reflections of the power elite in the community), making statements in meetings, claiming they don't have much to barter with in order to induce unincorporated property owners into their municipalities to widen their tax bases; or that they need to find a way to induce the resistant power elites to accept the annexations. And when the City talks about finding out what these people's "desires" are in order to reach their goals, what they're talking about is corruption. They plan to relax the law to facilitate it for the people they need on their band wagon giving them a chance to "fulfill" their desires -- basically, turning a blind eye to Civil Torts or worse, because this kind of collusion is tantamount to RICO. And yet it happens with the State Attorney's Office knowledge and they do nothing about it. That's politics and that's why government is getting a bad name.

Free association of the word "politics"-- Cronyistic, corrupt, corrupting-- in need of revision.

[begin_within]

1. The Art of Lying

[The Backlash Cometh]

2. If we know they are lying, why is it so difficult to prosecute them?

[begin_within]

3. That's all about having friends in high places

[The Backlash Cometh]

5. So now we know there's a network.

Shouldn't we then expect that the next big scandal is going to involve a domino effect that will take down politicians in both parties and their major law firms?

[begin_within]

44. Well, it seems that in politics today, lying is acceptable.

Some types of lying are legal, it's not a violation of the law to stand somewhere and tell a lie. Some types are illegal, such as false advertising, or libel and slander, or breach of contract could be considered a form of lying. But with politics, there is no legal contract, you just have to take on faith what the politician says, then vote for him/her, then just hope that they do what they said they would do. But there is no legally binding contract that says they have to do what they said they would do in the campaign. Lying to the public while in the office (i.e., Iraq had WMDs, etc.) could conceivably be prosecuted on some standpoint such as misuse of power or whatever. And we all remember the whole Clinton impeachment thing about him lying while under oath in the Paula Jones case. So it's possible but I guess it all depends on who's for you and who's against you and what powers each sides have. Among other things I'm disappointed with the Obama administrations total disinterest in prosecuting members of the Bush/Cheney administration.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

4. Mostly, it's an inefficient way of governing, run by hucksters and other criminals.

"When politics enter . . . government, nothing resulting there from in the way of crimes and infamies is then incredible. It actually enables one to accept and believe the impossible."

"In . . . politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the questions at issue but have taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing."

"The government of my country snubs honest simplicity, but fondles artistic villainy, and I think I might have developed into a very capable pickpocket if I had remained in the public service a year or two."

"Right here in this heart and home and fountain-head of law, this great factory where are forged those rules that create good order and compel virtue and honesty in the other communities of the land, rascality achieves its highest perfection."

"History has tried to teach us that we can't have good government under politicians.  Now, to go and stick one at the very head of government couldn’t be wise."

"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself."

"In my experience, only third-rate intelligence is sent to Legislatures to make laws, because the first-rate article will not leave important private interests go unwatched to go and serve the public."

"Few men of first class ability can afford to let their affairs go to ruin while they fool away their time in Legislatures. . . . But your chattering, one-horse village lawyer likes it, and your solemn ass from the cow countries, who don't know the Constitution from the Lord's Prayer, enjoys it, and these you always find in the Assembly."

"Fleas can be taught nearly anything that a Congressman can."

"All Congresses and Parliaments have a kindly feeling for idiots, and a compassion for them, on account of personal experience and heredity."

Mark Twain

[The Backlash Cometh]

8. These two quotes tell me that Mark Twain is now outdated

"In my experience, only third-rate intelligence is sent to Legislatures to make laws, because the first-rate article will not leave important private interests go unwatched to go and serve the public."

"Few men of first class ability can afford to let their affairs go to ruin while they fool away their time in Legislatures. . . . But your chattering, one-horse village lawyer likes it, and your solemn ass from the cow countries, who don't know the Constitution from the Lord's Prayer, enjoys it, and these you always find in the Assembly."

Because we know it's people coming up from the business sector that is corrupting the process --and government lawyers who are too tied to business organizations.

[Tigermoose]

6. How do you manage to leave the house each day?

Yes, we live in a difficult, complex world. There are some people that do unethical things. There are some people that to the right thing. 99% of the time, those people are the same people.

[The Backlash Cometh]

9. And in all probability..

They do the right thing to cover up all the bad things they do. Wolves in sheep's clothing.

[Tigermoose]

14. But what if they believe they are doing the right thing?

Despite my opinion that Bush was a moron who did great harm to this country, I do believe he believes he was doing the right thing. I think it comes down to whether or not we are willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt. I still give Obama that benefit. Others either don't like the guy or just have an ingrained hostility to all things corporate and authoritian.

[The Backlash Cometh]

16. Arrogance and entitlement.

"Doing the right thing." Do you realize there is a segment of our population who believes that they are somehow above the law because of their positions? Do you know what people are capable of doing for themselves and their friends if they don't fear repercussions for their actions?

I defer to that scene with Frost and Nixon. That mentality of Nixon's goes far down further than you realize. That mentality is what is destroying the public trust in government.

Yes, they think they are doing the right thing, because they live in a different world than we do. If they had to face the same penalties, they would be making different decisions.

[Tigermoose]

20. Yep and yep. What's your point again?

Yea, people with power tend to be arrogant and feel entitled. I deal with it every day at work. But I still choose to leave the house and deal with it without too much grandstanding and whining. I guess that's why I still have a job. I guess that's part of living in society.

[The Backlash Cometh]

22. You wouldn't if it was in your own backyard.

But I agree, there are plenty of ways to bury your head in the sand.

[Tigermoose]

25. DEAL WITH IT.

Adapt Yourself, Change It, or STFU. If you have a problem in your own backyard, that's a fight you are going to have to figure out IRL. Whining to us on this message board won't make a damn bit of difference.

[The Backlash Cometh]

27. I'm sorry, I didn't realize I stepped into the Tigermoose Forum.

These concepts are the same concepts that we talk about on DU all the time. You have a very limited vision if you can't see the similarities.

[Tigermoose]

28. I'm just hoping to break you and others out of your funk

Your negative view of the world is probably causing you to be depressed and anxious. I too was once in that funk. But then I realized that most of the BS on the internet was just biased propaganda, and I realized that the real world really isn't the hell-hole that DU thinks it is. If you aren't the DU pessimist I am characterizing you as, then I apologize. I just see way too much of this "DU syndrome" on this website and in other internet discussion rooms. But then I go into the real world and I just don't see the apocalyptic doom that is being predicted by the teabaggers and the far left.

[The Backlash Cometh]

31. This place is a vehicle for change.

So if you are pig happy in your conventional place, what are you doing here?

[Tigermoose]

32. Boredom.

I'm working to change that though. :)

[The Backlash Cometh]

35. So you're a ... flamer?

Troll?

[Tigermoose]

40. So you're a freedom fighter? The next Braveheart?

I'm just a guy on the internet.

[The Backlash Cometh]

41. I'm an American who still believes that American ideals are

still possible and I can see where the disintegration of our society has begun.

Even the military sees it. They understand how we all have to come together in a time of war, and I see a day coming when it won't be easy to galvanize us as a nation to fight for ideals that aren't equal for everyone.

Now. As long as you're stealing time from your employer, why don't you try to say something productive?

[Tigermoose]

42. I never claimed to be productive. I'm not delusional about my internet activities.

Seeing how it is the holiday season, work tends to be slow and boring. At least I've got special people like yourself to chat with.

[The Backlash Cometh]

43. Well, since I do like to be more productive

why don't you visit the Lounge?

[GreenPartyVoter]

7. A powder keg.

[The Backlash Cometh]

12. Yes, I see it coming too.

As soon as the public sees all the strings attached to the politicians and realize how self-serving they have been, we're going to see the outrage that brings on reform. They already suspect it, they just need to call it by name.

[ixion]

10. the lowest form of humanity

and human expression.

Politics is nothing more than legalized mafia.

[The Backlash Cometh]

13. They are most definitely breaking the law.

Which should tell the world what a bunch of posers our government is. There ARE people who are above the law. Lots of people.

[Tigermoose]

15. You would prefer armed conflict?

What process would you use to govern? Force? Begging pretty please?

[The Backlash Cometh]

17. I believe in truth.

Stop lying to the public. There is no honor in politics. Not in American politics.

[Tigermoose]

19. Yet politics is necessary for civilization

So what do you do now?

[The Backlash Cometh]

21. What happened to Rome?

What happened in France?

Aren't these things the natural result of a system which is out of control? Shouldn't we at least make an attempt to avoid the same fate without resorting to draconian laws that will turn us into the Soviet Union?

[Tigermoose]

24. Yes, through incremental, pragmatic progress - not revolution.

People have to be starving and routinely humiliated by an elitist class before we have a revolution. That just isn't happening on a scale necessary for a revolution here in America. By the standards of history, we all live pretty damn good. Hell, just even having AC and a variety of food is pretty amazing when you look at standards throughout history.

[The Backlash Cometh]

26. Everybody has their own threshold.

Where I live, people think it's okay to bandy with the local elites to steal from their neighbors because they feel they have the right to "live like a white man."

[Tigermoose]

29. Like I said earlier: Adapt to it, Change It, or STFU

You can move..you can try to persuade others not to steal or live like white men, or you can silently deal with it and get on with life. Or I guess you can whine about it here on the internet.

EDIT: What I am saying here is that you are just going to have to rely on yourself to make the world or your perception of it a better place. Blaming others is not really going to help you in the long run.

[The Backlash Cometh]

30. One doesn't bring on change by rolling up in a ball and hiding.

One does it by using the most powerful tool provided to American citizens. The power of speech. And there's more than one place to use it. This blog, for example. Too bad that you don't see the power of the internet, as I do. It's just one of many venues. Maybe it's time you open up your mind and realize that you are only seeing the tip of the iceberg.

[Tigermoose]

34. Just because you are just one in a billion doesn't make you any less special

I mean that.

[The Backlash Cometh]

36. Your sincerity bleeds through.

[NoPasaran]

11. The continuation of war by other means.

[Echo In Light]

18. "Politics is the shadow cast on society by big business" —John Dewey

[The Backlash Cometh]

23. Very good.

[SoCalDem]

33. Sinister persuasion, for personal gain.. n/t

[The Backlash Cometh]

37. I know how they do it on a local level.

There's always a lawyer nearby telling them the odds of getting caught, and ready to intimidate anybody once they do get caught.

[kenny blankenship]

38. Politics is the arena where people collaborate & compete to secure what they consider good in life

Unfortunately only one class is currently allowed to play it in earnest. When the others try they are told "that is breaking the rules!"

Good things in life can have different definitions, but there are separate levels and they are not ranked all equally. People who're allowed to play the game for real, play it for one thing: material gain. Everyone else, meaning those who don't bring enough chips to sit at the main table, only get to play for symbolic gain: religious bigotry chips, "inclusion" chips, other kultur kampf stuff.

[The Backlash Cometh]

39. Good definition.

I would expect people to collaborate to advance their own personal goals. What I never expected to find was how they collaborated to shut down the courts and criminal justice system so they could keep getting their way.

Technnically, there's no way to challenge them once they have corrupted every system that can provide a remedy to the people they injure.