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Even TruthOut and Buzzflash are tsk tsking Dean for speaking out. That surprises me.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 02:36 PM
Original message
Even TruthOut and Buzzflash are tsk tsking Dean for speaking out. That surprises me.
Buzzflash also has a very strong column against him. Many others also that I have thought were pretty fair-minded.

the famously tempestuous former governor

His stance is not presented clearly.

"I would let this bill go to conference committee and see if we can fix this bill more… Let's see what they add to this bill and make it work. If they can make it work without a public option, I'm all ears."

Dean’s comments signaled a significant about-face from his call to “kill the bill” last week, which created a sizable split within the progressive movement. Liberal legislators like Senator Jay Rockefeller slammed Dean’s opposition for being “nonsense” and “irresponsible,” and labor leader Andy Stern pointedly distanced himself from Dean’s remarks. Meanwhile, some left-wing activists began to celebrate the “enormous, rising tide of populism” against the Senate bill, and Republican like John McCain began seizing on Dean’s remarks as evidence that their opposition to the legislation was justified.

So what was it that prompted Dean to change his stance? For one thing, the White House made a serious effort to reach out to the famously tempestuous former governor, who has become the de facto spokesperson of the progressive movement. After initially characterizing Dean’s opposition as “insane,” White House adviser David Axelrod—who also appeared on “Meet the Press” today—softened his own criticism of the former governor on Friday. And this morning, Dean had confirmed that he and Axelrod had “actually talked back and forth throughout the week,” doubtlessly in the aftermath of his controversial op-ed.


And AGAIN, even from TruthOut...we get the "relevant" thingy. God I find that intolerable.

That being said, by shifting his attention to the next battleground for the evolving legislation, Dean has at least returned to a far more reasonable--and relevant--place in the debate moving forward.


You should read the comments. Most feel as I do that it is an arrogant position to talk about those who speak out as irrelevant.

Let it continue though...we will see who is relevant.

They will get their corporate agenda through...no doubt at all.

But there will be consequences if they shut us up and out.

Oh, and here is the column from Buzzflash

Who is this P. M. Carpenter whose posts show he/she do not like liberals.

Case in point: Howard Dean's appearance on "Meet the Press" yesterday. It was astonishing. I sat watching, slack-jawed but in utter agreement with Dr. Dean about the evils of private health insurance and the coming legislative battles with this monstrous special interest, should the recently tailored Senate bill be signed into law. Yep, that's what will happen all right. No doubt about it. I couldn't have agreed more.

So how, you might ask, could I sit vigorously nodding my head up and down while my jaw slackened in disbelief -- even disgust?

Simply because Dean repeatedly ventured that the bill should be improved, it should be improved, it should be improved -- while not once taking the good time and trouble to inform us just how the bill realistically could be improved.

..."Obama, as a student of history, has learned from the master. He has, as the Times further framed his approach, "put a high value on ... keeping things moving, recognizing that history generally does not remember the to and fro, only the big sweep of presidential accomplishments" -- which build on themselves.


Yes, they have learned from the masters of history.

The prelude to a royal screwing of the party's base which is said by the White House CoS to be non-existent anyway.

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vi5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. I feel many are falling into the trap...
..of putting a priority on power and/or access to those in power over actually getting things done that are good for the country.

I'm not sure why I'm dissapointed or complaining though. I blame myself for being so stupid as to believe things would be different with democrats in power.
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el_bryanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. In fairness how many things that are good for the country can you get done without power
or access to those in power?

I mean we could all work on supporting local free health clinics I suppose.

Bryant
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. They are forgetting those who gave them that power.
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vi5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Don't get me wrong...
I'm not advocating or in favor of them being stupid and running roughshod over public opinion or process or being stupid about it. It's a delicate balance and it always has to be.

But the degree to which on HC money and corporate interests were allowed to lead and guide the debate and the process, and the fact that those most beholden to that power were allowed to have the most control and authority, particularly when it so clearly ran popular to public opinion or sentiment or common fiscal sense on the matter was painfully obvious. I think even the most ardent of supporters of how this bill netted out would admit that was the case.

But the degree to which many people are saying "Well, we've got to accept it....we can't speak out against it....everyone get in line." is indicative to me that the balance has shifted away from power being a means to an end (justice, equality, fairness, etc.) and far too into being the end goal itself.

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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. +100
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. No more $$$ for Buzzflash!
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. Never in the history of the US has there been a mandate
to purchase a product from a private, for-profit company as a requirement for legal citizenship.

Never.

Is mandating consumerism really the Pandora's Box we want to open?

Not in my opinion.
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enlightenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
6. I'm surprised at Truthout.
I thought they were better than that.

Buzzflash doesn't surprise me - they were useful back when the site was just a plain-text page of links with snarky headlines (the headlines he wrote were often a lot funnier and spot-on than the linked article).
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-23-09 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. I don't think I am surprised at anything much anymore.
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
7. A lot of people are buying into the "Not Progress, but the Illusion of Progress" meme..n/t
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optimator Donating Member (606 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
8. never cared much for either site
both highly partisan, unobjective editorializing.
I prefer real journalism.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. but at least they used to stand for liberal stuff.
I don't see many sites that are unobjective anymore.

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Got any examples?
I'm always interested in good information.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
11. How dare anyone stand up to Dean!
:eyes:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-22-09 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. That is a silly remark.
.
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