God I hate this country.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

As those few of you who have ever read my posts know, I live in downtown San Jose, California. The demographics vary from the homeless that tend to live by the river to the affluent that live in the high rise condos with views of the valley but for the most part, it's pretty working class neighborhood.

A few moments ago, someone knocked on our door asking for food and water. Anything! as he was hungry and thirsty. Can you imagine what level you would have to reach to knock on strangers doors for food and water?

I've been out of work for six months and we are, at this point, hardly flush but I'm still in the kitchen preparing for our winter solstice dinner. Roast Goose with all the fixings and we can still afford two buck Chuck.

The only thing we had to offer him was a fresh baguette that I had baked this morning, a jar of peanut butter and a couple of bottles of water.

I never even saw the guy as my wife answered the door but after rounding up what we had to offer that would be immediately edible, I just had to go into my bathroom and cry.

I don't cry. I'm a 59 year old, 5'11", 235# construction worker. The last time I can remember crying was about 10 years ago when someone came to my door because he saw the box from my new dishwasher in my truck and he wanted it for shelter.

We are just barbarians.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NYC_SKP]

2. With people like you and your wife, this is still a great country. It's the system that's corrupt.

But the people, the working class people, and most all of us, are good.

Thank you for the post, and for your kind gesture to the person in need.

:thumbsup:

[Nikki Stone1]

35. +1

//

[MrsBrady]

54. Agreed. n/t

[Triana]

67. Ditto that

:hug:

[MissDeeds]

68. Agree on all points n/t

[madokie]

109. Yes all so very true

Greed and the lust for more and more is killing us as a country

[bdamomma]

218. if greed was a disease alot of people would be goners.

:hi: madokie!!

[madokie]

222. You got it

Christmas :hug:

[ThatsMyBarack]

145. Well freakin' put!

:thumbsup:

[defendandprotect]

160. It's patriarchy/capitalism which corrupts . . . and it has long had control of our government ....

[AllTooEasy]

237. If you hate the U.S. because of our homeless, they what country do you love???

I just got back from a trip to Europe (Paris, London, Derby, and Amsterdam). Although I had a wonderful trip overall, I saw disgraceful homeless conditions in each of those countries. I've travelled to or lived in 15 countries (Fr, Eng, Italy, Spain, Ger, Vat., Can, Mex, S. Afr, Japan, Indo., Malaysia, Thai., Phil., and Sing.). With the exception of the Vatican and Singapore (where the homeless are "removed from view"), they all had folks living in gutters, under bridges, slums, shanty towns, refugee camps, and/or other discraceful conditions. Especially the immigrants in Europe. No, you won't find them outside Buckingham Palace or the Arc de Triumphe. Once you get off the tourist trail, it gets ugly real quick!!!

The problem, in this case, is not America but mankind. We humans neglect and treat each other like shit everywhere! Some places are just not as bad as others.

My best friend said it best, "I'm not proud of America, I'm proud of certain parts of America".

Sir, I am proud of you! Merry Christmas and God Bless.

[NMDemDist2]

3. ...

:hug:

[Name removed]

4. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[marmar]

5. Some of the responses to this thread validate your subject line, unfortunately.

Hang in there.....I agree with one of the aforementioned responses....there are great people in the country, even if the political/economic structure is rotten.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

6. Blessings on you for your gift to that hungry man.

I cannot believe the rude responses to your generosity in this thread.

I can fully understand your frustration with conditions in our country...

K&R

:hug:

[cynatnite]

7. This country is a better place because of people like you and your wife...

:hug:

[ohheckyeah]

8. I understand what you are saying.

I spent about 3 hours on the phone today listening to people who are alone cry about being alone for Christmas. I've invited them over but they aren't likely to take me up on it. I'm going to take some of the cookies and candy I made and drop it by their houses and see if I can spend some time with them.

There are lonely, hungry, thirsty, scared, broke people all over this country and it's hardest for everyone during the Holidays. It was wonderful of you to share what you had to share and I hope we all take a lesson from it.

"As you did unto the least of these my brethren, you did it unto me."

[bigwillq]

9. It's sad, indeed.

Thanks for sharing. :hug:

[Swamp Rat]

10. .

:hug:

[femrap]

12. I understand how you feel...

I'm constantly saying how I am ashamed of our culture.

And if someone would buy me a citizenship to France or Austria (they sell for $400,000), I'd go. I don't think France sells theirs.

You're very lucky that you haven't had to cry very much.

[paulsby]

26. ah, american exceptionalism defined

ignorance and hatred combined.

yea, like france always has perfectly happy, well fed, contented citizens. violent riots, and the thousands of french who died during the heat wave, notwithstanding (france's katrina).

we are unique. sure, there's no suffering in those oh so enlightened european countries. and their oh so superior culture is SO much better than us. man,we just suck

american exceptionalism. alive and well (and fwiw, i have spent a fair amount of time and love france. but i;m not going to bash my country and write an ignorant hagiography. every country has its warts)

[RainDog]

33. there are plenty of reasons to bash other countries

but you do not understand the issue with the French and the heat wave.

Northern European nations do not generally have enough hot days in a year to warrant the expense of air conditioning. like some places in the northern part of the U.S.

so, when a prolonged heat wave comes through, people are not prepared. sales of fans go through the roof. places sell out of them. I lived through one such heat wave in n. europe (not france.) in France at that time, a lot of people were on their month-long paid vacation (in August) and were not near their older relatives. those are the people who suffered the most. the elderly always suffer the most in such situations.

that situation has nothing to do with the way France's national govt is set up.

to call that France's katrina is ignorant.

if you've never lived overseas, you really have no idea how much shit Americans are expected to eat if they have a run of hard times compared to other wealthy western nations.

[vadawg]

119. lol, so it was because the kids left their older parents to go on vacation

and didnt go home to make sure they were okay that got all the elderly to die, not sure if that is better or worse..

[RainDog]

127. look at stories of people who die in snowstorms, etc. in the U.S.

it's really funny when old people die, no matter where they live, isn't it?

the point is that France has long had one of if not the best health care systems in the world. the U.S. has a third-world health care system.

I guess that's something to be really proud of... at least you aren't one of those French people that expects their govt to actually serve the people. yeah, you'll show them...

[vadawg]

131. seems you missed the whole point of the kids going off on vacation

leaving dear old momma to suffer in the heat,even leading to her death. I guess the vacation was more important is the point i was making... plus im pretty glad im not french, cheating bastard henry..

[RainDog]

139. you miss the point entirely

yeah, those frenchies chose to leave the elderly so they could die.

what a piece of bullshit. you have nothing of value to say but you keep on saying it.

I bet the French are glad you're not French too.

[vadawg]

144. no they chose to leave their elderly family members at home, then when the heat wave struck

and it was being shouted across the media they chose to not come home or to check ontheir relatives, nothing to do with being french just to do with being people, who are the same the world over... you were the one who mentioned the month long holiday that people were on i simply stated that to many of those people the vacation was more important than their elders...

[RainDog]

152. that claim of not checking on relatives was after the fact

not while this situation was occurring.

you really want to claim that people were consciously choosing to let their elderly family members die?

just like in the U.S. in a snow storm? people choose to let their family members die? do you also want to claim this?

what a crock of bullshit. yet you won't let it go.

[vadawg]

164. so tell me this, there are reports in the press that elderly are dieing from the heat do you

A keep on partying grandama will be ok, or B contact grandma to check on her and mayby even go home just in case....

[defendandprotect]

171. This is fascist America today . . .

and there is no parallel with France and heat waves --

Capialism has a downward pull on all citizens and their lives -- here and internationally.

The more our own capitalism was deregulated and unleashed its most brutal aspects the more

it created a downward spiral everywhere --

WE are the nation which warmongers -- WE are the nation which TORTURES --

WE are the nation which has unleashed this corporate/fascism --

WE are the nation which has dropped nuclear weapons on other countries ---

WE are the nation which has polluted Iraq and Afghanistan and other areas with Depleted

Uranium -- bombed Iraq for 20 years before this latest illegal/immoral invasion -- !!!

[Jeffersons Ghost]

236. are they French Inuit...

Oh, my bad... that would be ice-flows in an earlier time.

[Raineyb]

181. It's not a crime to go on holiday.

Your deliberate, not to mention idiotic, twisting of what was said not withstanding. August is when a lot of Europeans go on holidays and travel. Those who didn't travel, many of whom were elderly, were in town when a heat wave, an unusual occurrence, happened. How the hell do you turn this into French people are bad because they didn't take their parents with them on vacation? People in this country don't take their elderly parents and grandparents on vacation with them. Would you have said the same thing if they came back and found something happened to their relative while they were away?

How fucking ignorant are you? It's too bad you're American you are all too typical of the ugly American stereotype.

[vadawg]

190. nope if you look at my post i said people are the same all over the world

dosent matter where you go, there are people who will go home and get granny and those that wont when a disaster happens, dosent matter if your french or american, the french are not any better than the americans or worse, well except the aforementioned henry.

[Fire1]

253. And you know this because....??????

[tabasco]

263. Regale us with some more stories about your career in Marine Recon

liar.

[snooper2]

173. You have obviously never seen a third World health care system

Next time you see a doctor tell him not to worry about washing his hands and just rinse off the last needle he used in some boiling water mkay :)

[defendandprotect]

194. You must have limited experience with our doctors . . . 100,000 dying in our hospitals every year??

From wrongful treatment --

Never had your child ill because the pediatrician failed to wash his hands

after treating a child with measles?

Never saw a doctor counting money and holding dollar bills in his mouth?

Never heard how stupidly men proceeded with surgeries without properly washing --

and respecting germs in the air?

[AllTooEasy]

240. Where do you expect people to die?

...at the zoo?! :-)

Some of those neglectful actions have happened in America, but I blame the individuals, not the country. Otherwise I would have to blame every country.

BTW, your points illustrate why tort reform is a bad idea. If the doctor is an idiot, then the victims should be allowed to finacially rake them through the coals! Jail time should also be on the table.

[defendandprotect]

266. I don't think they work to kill people at the zoo! But seemingly they do in our hospitals!!

Sure -- 100,000 people a year go into our hospitals to specifically to become victims of

malpractice -- to get sicker -- to generally be mistreated and to die!

Good concept you've got there!!

But, agree with you on NO tort reform -- we should be taking over these hospitals -- and

pushing these mal-performing doctors out of health care.

Jail, too --

[wolfgangmo]

232. I have been in public hospitals in 3rd world countries.

Such as Venezuela, Costa Rica, Brasil, SriLanka, and Sumatra. Good services, competant docs, great nurses (and enough of them), and no boiled needles in sight. Everything was just like here. Of course I could pay cash but the bills were a pitance to what is charged here. FYI, I own a clinic here in Minnesota and I can tell you that the care I got overseas was comparible to what I would recieve here except that I paid much less and got much better nursing and follow up care.

And no one is turned away (all have universal single payer systems - oooooooo, socialism - hide the kids) in the first 3 on the list.

Now, why don't you mention the countries that you were standing up as straw men. Do tell. Where have you seen needles that a just reused and not at least boiled or autoclaved?

Anyone can find a poor corrupt shithole where the docs are forced to make due in horrifying conditions, but in the richest nation on the planet there is no excuse for not having good quality care for everyone. You either agree with this or you are (likely) a freeping bootstapper (at least on this subject).

[defendandprotect]

267. Those are the FACTS: 100,000 a year die in our hospitals of malpractice . . .

Cleanliness has always been too much ignored by males in medicine --

[defendandprotect]

167. Katrina was purposeful abandonment of US citizens --

I agree with the previous poster that there were many reasons why a number of nation's

suffered a loss of lives in the heat waves -- there is no comparison to the brutality of

Katrina.

And, these are simply weather conditions/events put in place by capitalism and corporate-

war making -- from Global Warming to pollution of the planet -- to the Atomic Bomb.

This an imperialistic, aggressive, fascist America -- warmongering across the planet and

stealing national resources of other nations. TORTURING, lying, deceiving.

What's going on in Pakistan right now?

Why are we still in Iraq/Afghanistan?

[Betty Karlson]

248. Most of the dead were childless.

The majority of the dead were in rural or semi-rural parts of France. Which is also where you will find the biggest concentration of women who are offended if you address them as "Madame". (They will snipe back: "Demoiselle!") Same with the gentlemen - the villagois is not typically married. And if he is, he does not typically have children.

It should also be noted that France has a lower birth rate than the U.S. For years, the government has been telling its citizens: "La France a besoin d' enfants" - seriously, that was the slogan in 2004. It is also trying to repopulate the countryside (with young families) by subsidising artisans willing to move into rural areas. It also subsidises education for young fathers and mothers willing to reschool themselves to become rural artisans.

[defendandprotect]

268. Interesting -- thank you!!

[dixiegrrrrl]

176. People die from ususal heat waves in the US, also, I might add.

So I agree, France is not "to blame".

[comtec]

101. The poor get money for a place to live and food to eat

it's not much, but its something.
that's a hell of a lot more than what the US often offers.
Since welfare is done by state and people are often shamed out of taking it the homeless and hunger problem only grows.
so yes, it IS a damned sight better here because we accept higher taxes!

Even the RICH here accept much much higher taxes (40-60% for 6+ incomes)

That's probably because they are taught in school to be responsible citizens, no matter what they make.

but that's just opinion.

I could be wrong.

[Joe Bacon]

112. It's not about France

It's about America, the most selfish nation on earth.

The nation that bullshits endlessly about God but follows Ayn Rand.

The nation and whose real bible is Atlas Shrugged, whose real Jesus is John Galt, whose real Holy Ghost is the Invisible Hand of the Free Market.

The nation whose first commandment is "Get Yours and Fuck Everyone Else".

The nation that worships people who get to the top by lying, stealing and backstabbing.

The nation that has seen the rise of Idiotcracy where millions vote for the next American Idol while they ignore the American Idles who are unemployed, disabled, destitute and cast out.

The nation that bullshits about Democracy but fails to practice it at home.

The nation who bullshits about freedom yet opens the door for corporate tyranny.

The nation that roots for Freddy and Freida Fetus as long as they are in the womb, but once they leave it, looks the other way when Freddy or Freida are molested, malnourished, miseducated, and thrown away.

The nation that says it's YOUR fault if you get sick or disabled.

The nation that craves materialism, that believes whomever dies with the most toys wins.

The nation that craves anything that celebrities do, but ignores the needs of the many who just get by.

The nation addicted to listening to junkies like Rush, dry drunks like Beck and convicted felons like Liddy on their radios.

The nation brainwashed by 19th Century Fox to believe that Freedom is Slavery, War is Peace and Ignorance is Stregnth.

The nation that bullshits about a "City on the Hill" when in reality it is nothing but an immoral sewer polluting the rest of the planet with its narcissistic garbage.

The nation that is brainwashed by TV Preachers to believe that JC and his Sonshine Band are heading back to earth in a week or 2, and when they approach, Jesus will turn on his Holy Hoover Vacuum Cleaner and suck up all his rich white Republican Christian followers and leave earth to the godless homo-loving atheistic Marx loving Democrats.

Yes, it's about America, the nation that says in God We Trust, but All Others Pay Cash, especially when you have no health insurance.

How far this nation has fallen, how far...

[conscious evolution]

122. great reply

We have fallen far,indeed.

[RainDog]

129. this is the sad truth. the U.S. has become a nation of idiots n/t

[defendandprotect]

177. IMO, they used "racism" and fear to destroy our public schools . . .

In fact, I understand that at times 50% of our Federal Education Budget was

money for the CIA!!!

And the idiot box is also a great tool for destroying the mind with nonsense . . .

What is it Gore Vidal says . . . ?

"A mind deprived of information devours itself" --

He didn't mean celebrity news!

[Goldstein1984]

132. We are certainly not what we pretend to be

[Goldstein1984]

133. We are certainly not what we pretend to be

[RetroLounge]

156. +1000

:applause:

RL

[earth mom]

158. That is a KICK ASS OP if I ever saw one! You should post it!

:applause:

[defendandprotect]

174. The right wing which can only rise on violence, assassinations, stolen elections . . .

This is fascism -- and much of it is based on a FAKE reality -- from their

fake right wing religious movement -- to the fake 2000 election.

When we failed to properly hold those responsible for the coup on JFK -- which

was actually a coup on our "people's" government . . . it was obvious this would happen.

Same with 9/11 - MIHOP.

Now -- they no longer wait for a political leader to actually arise before killing them.

If you're a threat, you're eliminated.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

202. +1

worthy of a thread unto itself.



FWIW, Mr Splanchnik likes the TV show, "Survivor"; I'd never seen it before I met him. We were struck recently by the rise of one player who personified the malignantly narcissistic qualities you describe. Seemed there was about a 50/50 split between people who recognized this guy was a lieing, self-promoting scumbag happy to HARM other people in order to advance himself, and people who applauded, voted for and admired him. The POS lost the "big prize", but DID win the "best player" award that "ordinary folks" vote on with their cell-phones.

makes me ill just recalling it... we thought for sure he would get the shunning he deserves. In fact, we were looking forward to seeing him get wacked for being an evil scumbag; we wanted our faith in the good of humanity bolstered.

We talked about how this show illustrated Amerikkkan society today, and the twisted inability to even SEE the DIFFERENCE between right and wrong.

[Dogtown]

116. "Love it or leave it", right, paulsby?

You need a facade adjustment...

[defendandprotect]

163. And you don't understand our brutal capitalistic policies have produced a downward spiral for

all nations --- ???

That what we do here doesn't cause undercurrents that destroy lives in other nations?

How much of the world is suffering and dying because of American political policies!!!

Most of it -- !!!

[liberation]

189. I love your projection exercise, you have no clue what the term "exceptionalism" means, do you?

If you are going to talk about the deaths from a heat wave, which affects a whole country, with the US leaving the poor citizens of a SINGLE CITY to drown... guess what? You are indeed operating under the almighty American exceptionalism banner. Because, besides the fact that you grossly inflated the numbers of French people who died, I assume you forgot all the Americans who die EVERY TIME we have a heat wave in this country... a few years ago the elderly were dropping like flies in Chicago, for example.

But what it was the kicker was you mocking the French for rioting. French citizens exercise their rights to riot and FIGHT TO DEFEND THEIR INTERESTS... because they understand that democracy is not an spectator's sport. The only thing some Americans like you can do is spew passive aggressive BS, thinking they are actually doing something.

Look at this f*cking place, we just got a health care reform which would have sent all those French people on the streets asking for the heads of the representatives which sold us to the insurance corporations. But instead, the "glorious" Americans sit behind a computer and bitch about it. In the end, the French enjoy one of the best health care systems in the world... while you and I get stuck with this inhumane piece of garbage which is healthcare for profit. So congrats! Let's deflect any criticism of our country, by insulting the French. Talk about exceptionalism... deflection and projection seem to be about the last things some people in this country are experts at... Good grief.

[sabrina 1]

219. Excellent post. You are completely correct

about the French rioting because they will not tolerate a government like ours, that would try to pass a Health Care Bill like this, or take their country into a war based on obvious lies.

I doubt there's a politician in France who would dare to touch their excellent Socialist Health Care System, rated as #1 in the world. That politician's career would be over. And good for them. They fight to hold on to their democracy.

Here even on progressive boards, you can see with your own eyes the reason why the US just laughs at its citizens as it stabs them in the back. It's disturbing to watch people make excuses for abusive government practices and politicians. Even when they see that they don't matter to them, they still defend them.

I read an article recently that said when people suffer extreme trauma they can experience a sort of 'psychic death' that leaves them without emotions and completely apathetic. That's how I view the American people sometimes as a whole. They have been conditioned not to make too much of a fuss about anything, and when someone does, THAT'S when the pitchforks and torches come out. Not for those who are abusing them.

[krabigirl]

212. edit

[tabasco]

264. Can't stand the truth.

It sucks but Europe is far ahead of us in taking care of citizens.

It takes moral courage to admnit the truth.

You ain't got it.

[RainDog]

13. I understand totally. I have a friend who runs a place for homeless people

most of them are vets.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

15. And if that's not really fucked up, I don't know what is!

Homeless Vets. It's not an oxymoron but it should be.

[RainDog]

19. yes it is.

and when people complain to the city about homeless people begging on the street, my friend said the city calls him to deal with "his people."

they should not be begging on the street because they should have the care they need. the "shelter" serves food and is not open all day. just before lunch, there are a bunch of guys who hang out across the street from the church that opens its basement as a place to feed the poor (they don't provide the service but they do provide the space during the week days.)

I've been thinking about posting some pictures (with permission.)

People need to see what this country is like for those not out in suburbia.

[dixiegrrrrl]

185. I wish you would post pictures. Lots of them.

And not only here, perhaps to Kos, or similiar sites.
Sometimes the MSM picks up on stuff like that.

[a la izquierda]

117. that's the worst of all...

[whathehell]

225. Agreed...Absolutely.

[TomClash]

14. I understand your sentiments brother

A few days ago I fed someone I don't really know with no place to go to have a meal. I feel terrible - for Derek because he had no place to go and for me because I am too weak to make these small sacrifices for my fellow men and women - comrades in the life struggle - every day. I've given to others more than any Christmas in my lifetime but it is never enough and paradoxically I feel worse about it.

You and your wife have done well. You gave when many would have refused. Whatever your religion - an irrelevant matter really - you heard the universal theme of Christ's message in your mind, body and soul.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

17. I'm one of those Godless Athiests you've heard so much about

You know, the ones who worship Satan and just think about ourselves. Like Bankers. And Dick Cheney.

[roguevalley]

24. no. you are a good man with a heart. that is enough for anyone.

[OneGrassRoot]

115. +1000. n/t

[RainDog]

25. yeah, me too.

there's a homeless woman in my town that I've known for years. at one point her shopping cart broke down so I went to a grocery store and asked if I could have one of theirs to give to her. I parked it next to her broken one (which was parked inside a coffee shop.. a locally-owned one, fwiw.)

I noticed recently that someone must have bought her a new cart - not a shopping one, one that is more vertical.

I gave her lipstick samples at one point. she really liked them. but she doesn't want to move in with family members that are nearby so she stays in churches at night and gets cups of coffee and food from local businesses during the day.

[TomClash]

98. LOL

You worship bankers and Dick Cheney? Whoda thunk it? :sarcasm: :)

Actions matter ore than beliefs.

[defendandprotect]

178. We don't need religion . . .

and certainly not some "one all male supremacist god" -- in order to be humane

and compassionate to one another --

What these people felt was simply a human connection ---

You might try noticing some time that the most inhumane behavior and activities

the world has ever seen have come from those who embrace religious beliefs!!

[Berry Cool]

16. I said the same thing a few weeks ago, so I can relate.

I have been sick the past month with a bacterial infection that won't go away. A round of free amoxicillin from the local supermarket pharmacy didn't kill it. I went back to the clinic and the second doctor to see me, unaware that I have no job and am uninsured, prescribed me an antibiotic that wasn't on the pharmacy's free schedule. The pharmacy told me it would cost more than $275 out of pocket.

That was when I cried in my sister's arms, and said that I hate this country because it requires you to have a job in order to have health insurance. And sometimes even then you can't get it.

The pharmacy called the doctor and got permission to switch the prescription out with a second free antibiotic. It also failed to do the job. I am now on my third type of free antibiotic, plus other meds I had to pay for out of pocket (although not $275+). I am still sick.

But I have a roof over my head, understanding landlords and a little money set by to help me pay the bills. I'm better off than many.

I hope you get back a blessing tenfold for what you did for that poor man. That he should be in that situation in this country is obscene.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

20. That's kind of how I see it. When you have to knock on the doors of strangers

to ask for food, It's obscene.

Something is seriously wrong with "The greatest country in the world", the "Richest country in the world" when people have to come to my door asking for food.

[Solly Mack]

18. It tears at the heart and the emotions just burst forth

I know what you're saying.

:hug:

[GreenPartyVoter]

21. Thank you for your kindness *hugs* My heart hurts too when I think of

how we are supposedly such a rich country, and yet there are so many people who are just suffering.

[dysfunctional press]

22. in response tio the people who said 'then leave', but had their posts deleted...

before i could respond-

there are many many many times that i really do wish that i COULD leave.
the problem is trying to find a country that would be willing to let a disabled person who can't work immigrate. :shrug:

[Zywiec]

27. I don't understand

Since this country is apparently third-world, surely there must be some utopia in Scandinavia or elsewhere that takes better care of people and welcomes anyone with open arms. Otherwise, why would people hate this country so much?

[dysfunctional press]

32. tell me which scandinavian country that is.

seeing as you're so...bright? :shrug:

[Zywiec]

37. I guess you're right

Other countries are no different than the country people here love to hate.

:shrug:

[RainDog]

40. intentionally stupid?

the issue is when someone is a citizen of a nation.

if d-p were a citizen of a Sweden or Denmark, he would be able to survive as a disabled person and received health care based upon his ability to pay.

his kids would be able to afford to go to a university if they studied because the fees are sliding scale.

his family would not have to worry that they would be homeless because of illness.

immigration is another issue all together. but you don't really care about facts, do you? you just want to talk bullshit.

[flygal]

66. Exactly I live in Germany

and you NEVER see people holding fundraisers and benefits because someone has cancer. I hate seeing that when I go home.

[hay rick]

71. Charity is no substitute for a humane society.

Our health care system is a pure disgrace.

[defendandprotect]

188. Agree .... in fact, it's criminal --

[whathehell]

231. Charity is certainly part of a humane culture...I agree that it's not an adequate substitute

for more humane governmental institutions, but it does offset it to a degree...It's a fact, for instance, that Americans give about twice as much to charity as do Europeans.

[wolfgangmo]

234. Wrong - as a percentage of income Americans give less...

... than any other western industrialized nation.

The only way to make your claim of us being so generous is to take our giving as the largest economy in the world, ignore the fact that we give budget fuzz to charity, but only take the amount as a whole despite the fact that as a percentage it is a pittance.

I am more impressed by a widow on a fixed income giving 10% of her meager income to charity than some millionaire writing out a check for 1K (tax deductable) to some charity in exchange for his name in the paper and a free meal and night out. And that is how America gives - we'll do it if we get access to oil/resources and prestige, but otherwise nada.

[dysfunctional press]

42. what she said.

edited for gender.

[RainDog]

48. oops. I'm all woman. I just checked n/t

[Dr. Strange]

55. Must. Resist. Urge.

Message redacted

[RainDog]

126. don't make me post a picture of you in a compromising position... n/t

[dysfunctional press]

56. thanks. sorry. fixed.

all better. :hi:

[izquierdista]

53. Poland takes better care of her people

And they are by no means a utopia. You have to go to a very large city to find anyone at all who has fallen through the cracks and is begging or panhandling. I bet if you went to the town of Zywiec, you wouldn't find a single homeless person.

[Zywiec]

62. Obviously I'm not the expert on Poland like you

but I believe there is still some suffering in the country.

http://www.canada.com/news/Winter+freeze+kills+Poland/2370272/story.html

Also, the people I used to work with in Warsaw seemed very happy when they had the opportunity to move or travel to another country. Apparently these people don't know how good they have it.

[izquierdista]

143. Maybe they don't

I would think being homeless in Warsaw is still better than being homeless in Chicago. At least they know how many people froze to death during the winter. It seems in the U.S., they don't even bother to follow that statistic.

[KrR]

93. Poland is a cesspool of rightwing tards and reactioinaries. n/t

[izquierdista]

141. Everyplace has their cesspool

It's just a little more obvious there because JPII stirred it up all the time.

[Betty Karlson]

249. So unlike the U.S. ...

{This was sarcasm, by the way)

[rhett o rick]

60. The OP gave some reasons he didnt like our country. I can think of more. But you seem to disagree.

Please give us a list of reasons to love this country.

[Zywiec]

63. A record 1,046,539 persons were naturalized as U.S. citizens in 2008.

Not sure there is so much space as to list 1,046,539 reasons to love this country, but there must be at least as many as the OP.

[rhett o rick]

80. Twisted logic. There are lots of people worse off. But we torture and drop bombs on people. We harm

our own citizens. Give some reasons not your rhetoric.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

84. I'm British and have lived in the US for 36 years

I have never become an American citizen because I never wanted to. I have more than enough of this country and my husband and I have decided to move to the UK where there is a decent caring society. Both of our sons are there now and don't want to live in this country, even though they were born and raised here. Good God this is not an easy thing to do. My husband's family have been here since the 1630's and the ranch we own includes the land his grandfather homesteaded 120 years ago.
We had so much hope for Obama and then this health care deal is awful. I always thought thing's were getting better but they are not.
I also hate to see the begging jars in the stores...people begging for money to save the life of a sick loved one, how pathetic. How third world.

[Mudoria]

92. See ya!

[KrR]

95. Yea its all Obama's fault...

GO already!

[inna]

99. grow up.

:thumbsdown:

[Joe Chi Minh]

229. Ironical someone posted a thread about some of the 'Obama haters' seeming

to be an organised group - operatives! It's always looked the other way round to me.

[Donnachaidh]

104. you just proved the woman's point about this country -- way to go chucklehead

Have another beer. :eyes:

[wolfgangmo]

238. Can you read.

S/He stated that they are going. The question you should be asking yourself (that is if you EVER engage in introspection) is WHY they are going. America has always benefited by the brain power and creativity of the best that other countries have to offer. This is slowing down and changing - not only are the best and brightest of the world learning in other countries more than the US now, but they are less likely to stay if they do come here. This is a sea change and is largely because of how crappy we treat anyone who comes here.

Why is America becoming a bad place to be? Why aren't we the best place to be? With the wealth in this country there is not reason not to.

America is THE BIG MARKET IN THE WORLD - none other even comes close. As such we are in a position to DEMAND that the rich PAY for the privilege of working/marketing here, but instead we bend over and take it up the ass and ask for more. We allow the uber rich to rape our citizens by shipping jobs overseas, charge twice what any other country in the world charges for medical care, strip out our social safety net, make education too expensive for any but the whelps of the rich to afford and still live a life.

Ask yourself why and then try to understand why someone would be moving to a country where someone who is bright, hardworking and ambitious can be upwardly mobile, because you are more likely able to either maintain or move up a social class in almost any other industrialized nation that America right now. We are not longer the land of opportunity. And isn't it opportunity that any parent wants for their child?

[coyote]

97. Don't understand the other people´s hostile responses....

but I totally agree with you.

[sailor65]

151. In which parallel universe does your UK exist?

I've seen far more beggars and homeless in London than I ever see in Detroit.

[truebrit71]

203. I find that VERY hard to believe...

...

[sailor65]

211. Is it hard for you to believe....

because you've been to both places, or because someone else told you?

Unless London changed radically in the last 3 and 1/2 months (Not likely because all my previous visits over the last few years looked the same), my observation is valid. And I'm in Detroit every day.

[truebrit71]

214. Been to both places...

..

[sailor65]

217. Then it should be easy to believe......

especially if you are in both places often. The contrast was pretty clear to us.

On edit: And please don't think I'm knocking England or the UK as a whole, I love the area and enjoy my time there.

[wolfgangmo]

241. Been to both places.

First, consider for a moment that the UK is part of the EU and that anyone can move around and busk or beg in any country. The first rule of begging - go where the money is. London is rolling in cash. So it is not just Englands beggars that you are seeing.

Second, Detroit and many American cities have a war on the homeless and disenfranchised, in essence using local laws to make being broke or homeless a crime. The reason that you don't see many beggars is that they are in jail. Let's call these laws the Prison Industrial Complex Guaranteed Income Laws.

[earth mom]

166. I don't blame you for wanting to leave. I'd leave in a nanosecond but for my husbands job

that he believes he'll get a retirement from. I'm not so sure anymore that there will be a retirement to speak of when he retires 9 years from now.

The stupid replies to your post only proves how ignorant, uneducated and selfish people in this country are.

Good luck on your new life in the UK! :hi:

[defendandprotect]

191. Yes.....Right wing's "third world America" . ..!!!

[AllTooEasy]

244. With the exception of universal heathcare, (Once) Great Britian sucks!

In fact, I would rather pay for my own expensive healthcare here than live in that racist, pompous, constant overcast, culturally primitive (they still have a royal family for Heaven's sake!), overhyped shithole. Yeah, the tourist trail is very nice, but leave it and check out the real Britian. There's a reason why the English sailed/colonized/destroyed the world - they wanted to get the hell out of England!!!

America isn't hardly perfect, and some red states should to be given back to Europe and Mexico. But Britian, come the fuck on! I've lived in and/or travelled to 15 countries. Britian was around #10, behind every other European country I visited, Malaysia, Japan, Singapore, and Brazil. It's a tie with Thailand, and only because Thailand has a shameful, open sex trade. Otherwise Thailand would rank higher, way higher.

Decent caring society, for whom?! Wealthy, Aryian looking, "upper crust", Christian, White people?!

On behalf of America and every other former British colony - FUCK BRITIAN!!!

...bloody good health care system though.

[SOS]

180. 2008 new legal residents by country:

Denmark 551
Belgium 829
Finland 287
Norway 386
Switzerland 936
Ireland 1,499
Sweden 1,171
Austria 1,505

People from Europe aren't interested in coming here.

The US may be attractive to starving Chinese farmers, but people from Europe are not coming here anymore.
Maybe life in those democratic socialist countries is better?

[defendandprotect]

184. Maybe . . . ??? Without doubt it is . . .

[chatnoir]

223. Thanks for posting this

I was just about to post sth similar.

[krabigirl]

208. Yeah, like it's soooo easy to just immigrate to Scandinavia. lmao.

[wolfgangmo]

233. 1 false thing and a little information about your post.

First of all, the reason many call this country 3rd world is that for many of it's citizens they are living in 3rd world conditions. For example we are 37th in the world in health care outcomes below many 3rd world countries. As for access, it is only for those with money, so for many the wait for health care is life long (i.e. they will get to see a doctor when they die (coroner)).

Second, your falsehood/straw man. There is no country that welcomes anyone with open arms. Care to set up another straw man?

[defendandprotect]

182. True . . . how many of us have thought about it and came to understand

how any movement could make us more victims of America's political system!!!

Still thinking though . . . and while I love having my children here -- I wonder

why they aren't thinking of it ???

[Gregorian]

23. I know what you mean, but you make this a better place.

I know you are saying that no matter the reason, this person should have the dignity of the basics. But you helped. You made this a better country. And maybe we're never going to see compassion from maybe even half of the human race. This is nothing new. And some percentage of people have been garbage (that should read "unconscious", or "without compassion") since the beginning.

It's a shame we don't have an array of educational programming on the television. Things like Calculus and history and biology. It's a shame we have crap on the most valuable medium. It's a shame we can't all come together as humans (who happen to be essentially lost in space on this speck of dust in the universe), and treat each other as equals, as friends.

We're in some ways better off now than we ever have been. In general we're more comfortable, and fewer people experience the lack of justice that until recent years people endured.

I make no argument that we're in good shape. I happen to think things suck. But in comparison to what they could be. And with such little effort. I think a lot of the troubles we see come from judgment. Fear, greed, judgment. It isn't as difficult as it seems to make big changes in the world. But it often takes self control. To not judge. To share.

You made my world better by sharing this, too, I want to add. When someone shares this stuff it is contagious. And it may even give someone the courage to help, where they may have just told them to go away.

[Hekate]

28. As long as people like you and your wife are in it, there's hope for our national soul

:grouphug:

Enjoy your goose, and may the New Year bring better to everyone.

Hekate

[prairierose]

29. I understand what you are saying. I often say...

that I wish I lived in a civilized country; one with a social conscience. It is people like you, who have a social conscience who make this country bearable.

May your good works come back to you.

[laughingliberal]

30. Well, bless you! I remember being very young and a man came to our backdoor who needed food

My mother got food for him. I've never forgotten it. Little did I know I might someday be facing a similar fate. So far we only ran out of food money once and a very good friend got some money to us til we could get some work finished and get paid. We're pretty down to the wire, now but have a friend who brought food to us. I know the 'hobos' became a pretty familiar site during the depression years and I fear they may be again before the nation recovers. You are a gift to the world.

[conscious evolution]

124. the hobos are back

They call themselves road dogs these days.
I lived across the road from a major rail facility in Atlanta.Everyday we would see many kids coming out of the railyard after hitching a ride on the rails.There must be thousands of people living the hobo life these days because they have no jobs,no homes and no other way of getting around.
What a sad state of affairs.

[CanonRay]

142. I had the same experience as a child

we lived near the freight yards in Chicago and we'd often see hobos and find their camps.

[devilgrrl]

31. Your OP is disturbing, I shutter to think how disturbing the deleted sub-threads were.

:evilfrown:

BTW OWTH, thank you for being kind-hearted. :hug:

[UTUSN]

34. You have roast goose?!1 Wow. I don't know what to say. n/t

[OffWithTheirHeads]

36. Moderators. Please don't delete the subthreads.

I think it's important that we all know who the DU members are who have no compassion for their fellow travelers. We all need to know the names of those who worship supply side Jesus.

[Enthusiast]

105. You are right. nt

[YOY]

198. They're the usual Ron Paul fanboys.

The ones who whine "What did he ever do to you?!?!?" when you point out that the good doctor is batshit.

Sorry that whine works on his fellow Republicans but not here.

[slackmaster]

38. You are wonderful people, and roast goose with two-buck Chuck is a fine meal!

The only thing we had to offer him was a fresh baguette that I had baked this morning, a jar of peanut butter and a couple of bottles of water.

I believe that your kindness will be rewarded, somehow.

[blues90]

39. I see quite a few homeless here where we live

There are few like you and your wife and many who seem to be able to not even see the homeless or at least act as if they do not exist.

I have been screamed at more than once handing out change being told I am just encouraging them to hang around near stores , never stopped me.

Everytime I see someone homeless and my wife and I are just barely able to get by it does tear away at me a bit more each time.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

41. Just encouraging them

Like anybody would choose this as a way to make a living.

[blues90]

52. Amazing ,isn't it. This area is right in the heart of HLWD ,CA

I had one goon leap out of his new PU truck and strut over to me asking how much did you give that ------. I said what is it too you and how is it any of your business.

Perhaps one day these ignore people will find themselves it that position , not that I wish it on anyone ever. I am not religous yet I do feel there is maybe Karma out there or even life can be a lesson.

[hayu_lol]

43. We will always have some homeless amongst us...

but hearing of some knocking on doors today reminds me(as it reminded another poster)of the depression when men all over the country left their families behind and hit the road seeking work of any kind. Handouts and hobo jungles became a way of life for millions.

Afraid that we will be seeing more, not less,of these people who are totally without resources and have no time to plan on anything other than maybe a next meal.

Things will get tougher. Thanks to the OP who did what they could.

[Mira]

44. So sorry for your experience, my friend. You did well, and now

you move on. We can only rebuild the broken structure one brick at a time, and it takes many masons.
You are one of them all the time, not just today.
America will rise again, once we stop fooling ourselves collectively about how broken it is.

Anybody who's immediate (and only) knee jerk, dumb assed, ignorant, predictable, and boring response to criticism of what is going on in our home country is:
"Just move"
is not worthy of being thought about, or even of being considered.
The predictability of such brainlessness, and such lack of patriotism makes that person downright laughable.

Their presence here is tolerated only because sometimes a few seeds fall under the snow and sprout.
And because we want to not do as they do.

:hug:

[glitch]

45. I don't hate this country. But I do hate the people who feel that they, and only they are entitled

to run it, and when they do run it they loot it.

The people in this country are as awesome as the people everywhere else. I've traveled a lot, I know good people.

Good people do not steal from others and call it politics.

Happy Solstice, things will change.

[fascisthunter]

47. true

[Libertas1776]

46. I often think about high tailing it out of this country

should the opportune moment ever arise, but I can honestly say, after reading your OP and learning that such a person like you exists, it's a little more difficult for me to leave now. Thank you. :hug:

[Starry Messenger]

49. ((hug))

It's pretty fucked up. I live in the Bay Area too and the disconnect between the haves and the have-nots is stunning and bleak. You might have saved a man's life today.

[StarfarerBill]

50. With people like you, there's still hope for this country.

:)

[we can do it]

51. Thank You for Caring

:hug:

[Toasterlad]

57. If I Could Get a Decent Job In Canada, I'd Be Out of Here Tomorrow.

This country is beyond saving, and its apathetic people deserve every bit of the corruption and injustice that they've consistently voted into office for decades.

[Lorien]

58. I totally understand. I was watching "Avatar"tonight with a girlfriend

a scene showing an American corporation bulldozing a sacred piece of land while military surrounded the bulldozers to ward off the indigenous people made my friend blurt out "God, I hate Americans!" in the middle of the theater after having been silent throughout the rest of the film "We've pulled the same crap on so many people, starting with OUR Natives." she growled. I knew that it wasn't the stuff in the fictional story that was getting to her, but the stuff that we're ALL seeing these days. How the corporate elite trample on lives and take whatever they damn well please, as much as they want, and no one stops them. This past weekend a guest on Moyers said that it will take nothing short of revolution to reverse the trend. And probably the kind that involves more than just letter writing and marches on Washington.

[Enthusiast]

108. Well, I have not seen Avatar

but I do know these corporations will not relinquish their hold on this nation voluntarily.

By ANY measure these corporations would have to be judged as "Anti-American" for they have sold us out at every turn.

And sell-out politicians? They have come to feel that it is acceptable to sell out. Because it has become acceptable. And THAT is what I hate about America.

[Lorien]

205. They sure as hell have been more destructive to American lives than any

terrorist with a box cutter could ever hope to be. How many lives have we lost to unpaid medical claims, lack of insurance, despair and suicide...not to mention wars of choice? It's truly obscene.

[defendandprotect]

193. Obviouly, America's corporate/fascism unleashed harms every nation....

We may be really at the gateway to "third world America" which right wing has been

working on here for decades -- with assassinations, stolen elections, control of info/

"free press" -- but it naturally is a downward spiral pulling on all countries.

Just as our overall general violence/terrarism and warmongering are effecting everyone!!

We're in the same gene pool we've always been in and considering the murderous ride

behind us doesn't portend well for our futures!!

[grantcart]

59. Dear Off

Thank you for giving him the baguette, peanut butter and water.


People like you are the reason that I love this country.


It is also the reason I love other countries there are folks like you sprinkled all around this rock.



gc

[StreetKnowledge]

61. You're a good man, my friend. Very good.

I am a firm believer in Karma, the idea that people who do good will get good done back to them. If that belief is well-placed, a job will be in your future, preferably a good one.

I've never had to be homeless (and I thank God for that), but I know people who are or have been homeless. I don't hate America, but I will say that since I went back to Canada, I honestly don't want to go back to Seattle where I lived for fifteen years. Toronto is cold as hell in the winter (it's -14 Celsius outside my door right now), but here people actually care about those less fortunate, and this city, as screwed up as it sometimes is, is a much better place to live IMO.

I think if we want to fix things in America, Job 1 should be electing people who care about people other than themselves - a very short supply in Washington.

[Blasphemer]

64. You are correct, it is disgusting

I've had times in my life where I've been flush with money. Those times coincided with serious financial hardship and unpaid medical bills of close relatives. I gave them just about everything that I had. I suppose I could be financially better off if I had just hoarded my money and/or invested it but it just never occurred to me. Of course, it is easier to help those with whom you have an emotional connection. I was pretty young then and I can't say what I would have done with my money if circumstances were different. I've experienced a lot since then and matured (I hope) quite a bit. There are times when the state of the world brings me to uncontrollable tears and unyielding sadness. When my mother talks about hoping to win the lottery, I remind her that we often desire far more than we need and perhaps the world would be better if we were all content with having what we need and not accumulating that which we don't when so many others have so little. No, her life has not been easy, nor has mine, but I do know that we have more than a lot of people. I often find myself in the midst of existential crises and wonder just how much I have allowed myself to be a cog in the wheel at the expense of true humanity. It's not easy, this life but I know that we can all collectively do much better.

[1]

65. well, as someone who does not hate this country, i must respond...

i hope i only get my post deleted. but i'll say it anyway.

op, you do get that homelessness and hunger are not unique to america, right?

you can hate america and "leave" as other deleted's have suggested.

but even if you did leave, there would still be homeless and hungry. no matter where you go, no matter what some here might lead you to believe. there are homeless and hungry in every country. that is just a fact. so don't hate america just for that. it would be a very naive view of the world and its conditions.


don't leave. don't hate. keep being great. doing the best you can do...

[TheWebHead]

69. "God I hate this country." at DU = +83 recommend

there are no words :(

[newtothegame]

70. Nothing barbaric about it, sounds like you did the right thing. n/t

[LibDemAlways]

72. Tonight one of the local so-called "news" stations here in LA ran a

puff piece about a woman in Orange County who lives in a 6200 sq. foot house with an ocean view. Seems that 5 years ago she started buying up fake trees and decorating them with thousands of dollars worth of ornaments. Each tree has a particular theme - the Elvis tree, the red, white, and blue "patriotic" tree, the Wizard of Oz tree, etc. She currently has 18 of these trees scattered throughout her mansion and plans to add one more each year. The reporter raved about the decorations and the woman seemed utterly at ease with having lost the entire meaning of the holiday in a frenzy of consumerism run amok. Watching it all I could think about was how much food she could have provided to feed the homeless with the money spent on those Elvis ornaments. Just an obscenity.

Your kindness in helping out that hungry man won't be soon forgotten. Thanks for a timely reminder that all of us have a responsibility to do what we can year round to help others.

[Enthusiast]

111. The actions of the lady (crazy) in your story

are no more obscene than those of the military industrial complex and thieving banking industry. It is disgusting no question.

[LibDemAlways]

148. Absolutely obscene all of it. Wasteful spending by the government's war machine

and thievery by greedy corporations are both totally out of control. I was just particularly struck by that story because it illustrates to me the disparity between the rich and the poor and brings it down to a personal level. For some, conspicuous consumption is a way of life. Meanwhile, nearby, people are standing on street corners with signs begging for help. It's a tragedy.

[Enthusiast]

149. Conspicuous consumption is

even uglier now than it was five years ago. If that is even possible.

[DesertFlower]

73. you and your wife are good kind people.

hope things get better for you.

the other night we watched the movie "the soloist". at the end it said that there are 90,000 homeless people in the greater los angeles area. i said to hubby "i wonder if it's like that in other countries".

[Juche]

74. I know the feeling

Its like in the movie SiCKO when Michael Moore stops to ask 'who are we'?

China is taking sustainable energy more seriously than we are. We used to say 'why should we take the lead since China won't follow'. Now China is leading.

The human rights laws of various third world countries that were dictatorships a few decades ago are stronger than ours. Now Bush & company can't go to those countries for fear of being arrested on human rights violations.

Our country has descended into plutocracy and religious authoritarianism.




It is disappointing. Sucks. Sorry.

[Vidar]

75. K&R.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

76. We all need to follow your example

and do the best we can to reach out to others that are struggling to survive these times.

Your experience is what Christmas is all about and i thank you for being a good person.

[lonestarnot]

77. Had a poor fella block me in the driveway with his vehicle desperate for gas money to

get back to his job in CA, practically crying. Nicely dressed in a suit, didn't appear to be a druggie, but with real desperation on his face. I gave him what I could and he was so grateful he looked ready to cry again. We suck.

[rhett o rick]

78. I volunteer at a food bank and see those that our country craps on. Families living in their cars.

People out of work because the rich are moving jobs to China with taxpayer help.

[proteus_lives]

79. "We are just barbarians"?

American exceptionalism again.

Name one country on earth that doesn't homeless or hungry. Do that and I'll agree with you.

[druidity33]

103. There are A LOT of countries

that have a MUCH LOWER proportion of homelessness than the US does.

But then there are also countries that have more hungry and homeless per capita. You know, like Sudan, Iraq, Chad, etc...

:shrug:

[wolfgangmo]

247. so if I get the substance of your "argument"

It is that unless I/we can provide an example of perfection in another country, then we cannot cast a critical eye on our own country and fight to improve it for ALL of it citizens?

Is that about it?

Or are you not listening?

[proteus_lives]

251. Over your head, huh?

My point is that it's stupid to frame this as a American problem. It's a human problem.

We should cast a critical eye towards our country and fight to help our fellow humans but it's pointless to pretend that it only happens here.

[Greyhound]

81. It's never been perfect, but now is heading toward worst. n/t

[silverweb]

82. Thank you for the help you offered him.

And for your caring and your example.

[mullard12ax7]

83. I hear ya, I felt like crying last night

and I never cry. There are so many ruthless aholes now that aren't being held accountable that we've truly become a country run by criminals. No health care just more corrupt health "insurance", war-mongering unabated, outsourcing continues, torturers go free, propaganda on top of propaganda, 1 layer of criminals followed by another.

It's truly sad and "we the people" are currently screwed.

[puebloknot]

85. As an American teenager In post-WWII Germany, ten years after the war ended ...

... I saw people attempting to conduct some kind of life in gardening shacks, growing their own food and trying to survive the cold winters. I was ashamed to be a safe Amercan child living a stone's throw away in the new, modern apartment buildings built especially for the American military.

I once attended a concert with a German friend, during Fasching season, and saw that although most of the coats hanging off those rather thin people were ragged, and there was the smell of rarely-washed bodies in the room, they loved their Mozart.

Now we are seeing, more and more, the survivors of our phony war against poverty. It is amazing what the human spirit can soar above, but it is terribly sad (and an outrage) that people are essentially in the same desperate straits in America as they were all over Europe after the war. Yes, the numbers are smaller now, but growing apace.

Your kind heart reverberates throughout this message! Thank you.

[valerief]

86. Capitalism is a monster. It breeds these horrible situations. nt

[Selatius]

87. You're a good person. You're just cursed with a rotten leadership that doesn't care about you.

If public service has become reduced to nothing more than just another way to enrich one's self, then this country truly is finished.

[BigBearJohn]

88. That's the thing. This country has GOOD people in it. We just need to join hands and change it.

There are people in this country. Of that, I am 100% sure.
We just need to make our presence known.

[Golden Raisin]

89. And in the richest empire (or one

of the richest empires) the world has ever seen. Yet we have endless billions available for unending wars, stealth fighters and carriers that cost gazillions each. It's all a matter of priorities. :sarcasm:

[Enthusiast]

114. I don't understand the sarcasm thingie.

It IS a matter of priorities. Our priorities include feeding the MIC, the insurance, pharmaceutical and financial industries at the trough but they do not include adequate concern for real human beings.

[EFerrari]

90. You're good people, neighbor.

[The Wizard]

91. Predatory Capitalism

In the end it will be the cause of America's demise.

[mr blur]

94. And here come the American Exceptionalists!

Panicking because someone dared to criticize their perfect country. You know, the one with no decent healthcare service. The one where a moron like Sarah Palin can be welcomed as a Presidential candidate. The one where more people believe in angels than accept evolution. The one where you can't get elected unless you profess to believe in Jebus.

[Eric Condon]

96. I know some DUers apparently still pull the reactionary "love it or leave it" shit

But you shouldn't have to feel ashamed for the title of this OP.

I've proclaimed at some points in my life to "hate" this country. I don't know if it's an accurate representation of how I feel, but I know that I don't "love" this country. And I certainly don't think it's the "Greatest Country in the World™" either.

You know, when you grow up going to American schools, they teach history by really hammering home the American exceptionalism, and by teaching that every bad thing that happened in US history was an aberration. There's this need to convey American history as an arc constantly bending toward justice. You know, a long time ago, some bad people implemented a policy of slavery, but then Lincoln freed them and everything returned to normal! Sure, we had Jim Crow laws for the next hundred years, but that was the result of a few bad apples, and then MLK made everyone realize the error of their ways! And sure, it was wrong to have Japanese American interment camps, but after WWII, everyone realized it was wrong, and all was forgiven!

But at a certain point, you start to wonder: at what point do we look at all the evil perpetrated in America's name and decide that it's really the rule, and not the exception? At some point we have to be honest with ourselves, and acknowledge that injustices like these aren't blotches on the fabric of American history - they ARE the fabric of American history. And it continues on today, in a country in which second-class citizenship is openly a reality for LGBT Americans, where African-Americans can be targeted by law enforcement that act without impunity, and where elected leaders make absolutely no pretense of ethical conduct, preferring to take bribes from the healthcare industry to legislate in their favor.

At what point do we just throw up our hands and admit that it's not just a "broken system," and that it's not just a few bad apples, and that we, who believe in social justice, are NOT in the majority - that in reality, America may just be rotten to the core?

[Betty Karlson]

250. Wasn't there another slogan?

"Change it or lose it."

[zenprole]

100. speechless

Hats off, and good on ye' for helping out.

How to fix such things, with no democracy at hand? I think we can all do the math.

[Enthusiast]

102. Using just the

waste of the MIC we could feed and clothe every citizen.

[Rebubula]

106. Pfftt....

...save your hatred for the human race.

This country is no better or worse than any other. We have some very good people and we have some very bad people. We do some really wonderful things for the world...and we do some awful things as well. Just like every other locale in the world.

Every country was born on the blood of the oppressed and all countries have poverty, violence, oppression and hatred.

You are a good person that is trying to do well with the one short life that you have and I respect you for that. We need more people like you.

Barbarians are everywhere...not just here.

Be strong and do the best that you can.

[irishlover]

107. Feeding the homeless on christmas day

We in St Augustine Florida have taken matters into our own hands. We have an active Food not Bombs, a couple churches and an advocacy organization called PUSH: People United to Stop Homelessness. www.pushsjc.org On Christmas Day we will have 5 separate serving sites of hot meals outside at 3PM til either the people or the food runs out. We take it out to where they live. This is what it will take to first, feed the hungry and second, draw attention to the need. Agencies and churches have done much to hold events days before Christmas but leave the hungry and homeless to their own devices on the actual day. We will stand in solidarity with them on the day that matters. You all are correct: we must do this ourselves, even if we don't have much to give.

[MessiahRp]

162. I volunteered and fed the hungry on Thanksgiving with my 11 yr old son...

One of the most rewarding experiences of my life. Everyone should go out and do this.

Rp

[DailyGrind51]

110. As more people come to your realization, this country will improve.

[Mimosa]

113. We are the country, Offwiththeirheads

Offwiththeirheads, you're a good person. So are most of us. A corporate fascist coup happened when JFK was murdered and we've been living in a state of war and exploitation for 40 years.

God bless you, honey. {{{HUGS}}}

[MrMickeysMom]

118. Perhaps the reason you cried was that you don't hate this country...

... but, like me lately, feel so ashamed to be an American in this country.

[grandel]

120. Move North

Immigrate to Canada...where we still have a shot...

[Ken Burch]

121. Hate the economic system, not the country

There's still good in the people. We just need to find the way to bring it out, in everyone and in ourselves.

And your story reminds me of quote from the great Brazilian liberation theologian and bishop, Dom Helder Camara:

"When I feed the poor, they called me a saint.
When I ask why the poor have no food,
They call me a communist."

[madrchsod]

123. so do i....

i have come to the conclusion i`ll never be able to afford medical operations in need. i have twice declared bankruptcy over medical bills. i have medical insurance and there`s nothing in any health care reform bill that will solve the deductibles and the 20% that the insurance company won`t pay.

we have been reduced to a nation of beggars and thieves.

[freddie mertz]

125. "And so this is Christmas, and what have we done?"

Reading this made me cry.

[Tailormyst]

128. I love this country

Because it contains people as wonderful and compassionate as you. I hate the powers that be who spend our money an wars instead of improving its own citizens lives.

[crim son]

130. You crossed that thin line

and I know how you feel. I hate it, I love it; I have hope, there is no hope; people like you will save the world, there are not enough people like you to save even a neighborhood. Americans are not bad people but they have been lied to and told that bad is good. We aren't the worst country and we aren't the best.

Sending hugs to you for your kindness, and for your empathy.

[Goldstein1984]

134. I am often ashamed by the contrast between what we are and

what we pretend to be.

I don't remember who said that the measure of a society is how it takes care of its least fortunate. By this measure, we barely deserve to exist.

[newfie11]

135. Its all about greed,

Starting with politicians.

[blindpig]

136. Capitalism is barbarism

The choice is socialism or barbarism.

[icee]

137. I agree with you a 100%. Hopefully, I'll be leaving this country

in the next year or two for good. Living in terror every day is just too much. And now with Obamacare about to pass, my wife and my lives are about to take a turn for the worse. Disaster beyond imagination that even the people at DU here, who are the smartest of any board I've even been to, cannot even fathom.

[BoneDaddy]

155. living in terror?

Where do you live? Iran?

[icee]

161. Not that kind of terror....

dd

[evenso]

138. Most of us don't seem to believe we are one country

We accept the divisions by race and income and many here don't see those who are different than them as their fellow countryman (or woman). The truth is, progressivism won't here until that changes.

[closeupready]

140. Seriously, you should send this story to the WH and your Senator (Boxer?).

Let them know what life is really like for the typical American.

[Echo In Light]

146. K&R ... and take care

[Unca Jim]

147. I'm asking for trouble, but this gets so old!

I get that many people are horribly ashamed and dissatisfied with how we treat our less fortunate, damaged, discarded, and mentally ill.

*I AM ASHAMED AND DISSATISFIED BY THAT TOO!*

However, the *freaking point of the story* is that people are still there helping people, even through the worst times. The people (the most important aspect which defines any country) of America are generally good and decent. That means this is still a good country, even when there are terrible injustices around us we need to rectify.

So many people just instantly latch onto the worst in life and propagate it.

"Everything Sucks" all the freaking time without *ever* ameliorating those statements by recognizing the good all around not only gets old. It's pointlessly demoralizing and just makes people quit trying.

(cue up the "You can't tell me what to say" and "You have no idea how horrible everything is, you pollyanna idiot!" responses)

(cue up and "It's all the fault of religion/capitalism/whatever I dislike and will never get better until Carthage is destroyed" responses)


In balance, I'm a Progressive because I love the people of this country and want to help them be better people and force their government to reflect this.

What is it that gets accomplished by the endless waves of negativity?

[Yuugal]

150. K&R

"We" may be barbarians, but you are a champ. Good work.

[Javaman]

153. You are a good person.

The problem with that is; our nation no longer values good people.

We, the worker bees, see the real US.

We dig the trenches, we fight the battles, we turn the gears.

People are never appreciated until those gears stop.

but while those gears continue to turn, the people will continue to be spat upon.

You did what any normal person would do.

And given your situation, you did a lot more than most would do.

remaining stoic in the face of adversity is admirable, but even the best of us need that time alone to let out the frustration, anger, disbelief and sadness now and then. A good cry is a good release. You have enough stress to deal with, keeping more in won't help you.

We live in shitty times.

[BoneDaddy]

154. What a damn shame...I truly feel sorry for you

and so many others on this board who ALWAYS focus on the negative and rarely on the positive. Things HAVE to be exactly the way you think it should be or you will be thrown into such hate and anger, by choice, I may add.

The world is what it is. Enjoy it, celebrate it and be grateful for what you have. Can it be improved, yes, but stop with the martyrdom complex, the hand wringing and celebrate what you have.

This country has plenty of flaws but it also has such goodness and wonder and beauty.

[earth mom]

157. That is heartbreaking....

:cry:

Judging from the amount of deleted sub threads I'd bet that saying you hate this country brings out the knives.

But the truth is that this IS a very HATEFUL country full of miserable nasty people who are greedy and selfish who could give a flying fuck if their neighbor or the homeless guy on the street is hungry or struggling to get buy.

And god forbid if that same person wants health care! Oh HELL NO!

Oh, the audacity of wanting to live!

I'm agnostic, so if there is a heaven and hell, Obama, Rahm, his administration & most of Congress will surely end up in that hot zone along with * & Co and the rest of the evil fuckers in this country. :grr:

No, I don't blame you for having the guts to say you hate this country, I often feel that way too.

[defendandprotect]

159. So agree with you... and we want health care from a government that TORTURES???

We are the "terrarists" --

"We are the barbarians" ---

But I knew that the day I saw the newspaper announcing we had dropped

atomic weapons on Japan --

And I knew it when I learned what was done to the Native American --

and the African American --

How could anyone at this time be proud of this country?

And when was the last time that we heard a president speak about the welfare of ALL

of our citizens -- about the homeless and about the impoverished???

We need emergency job creation --- via the government!!!

Evidently the plan is to create jobs thru corporations!!!

Trickle down jobs -- profit for corporates!!!

And don't forget the peace speech -- "War is peace" . . . !!!

[Xenotime]

165. This is a horrible country.

[tblue37]

168. During the Great Depression it was common for people to knock on strangers' doors

to request food and water. The Powers That Be insist that this is not a depression, but I am pretty sure that it is.

[LastNaturalist]

169. You're free to leave,

and encouraged to do so.

[Quantess]

243. I bet you didn't read anything except the title of the thread.

[hfojvt]

170. nice title

"Why do liberals hate America?"

Did you know that every day 16,000 children die of hunger related causes?

http://www.bread.org/learn/hunger-basics/hunger-facts-international.html

Most of them are not in this country, but that's okay "WE" are just barbarians because one person is in need on this continent.

And hating this country is bound to help. After all "all you need is hate da da da da-da all you need is hate. Hate. Hate is all you need."

[Buzz Clik]

172. +1

The OP has misdirected emotions.

The author of the OP helped out a person in need, which is a beautiful thing. The author is not part of this country?

[MellowDem]

175. Speak for yourself...

God I'm sick of this "we are a horrible country, we are barbarians" mantra. Our country is by no means perfect, but it's by no means "third world" either. It's got a lot of potential, to say the least. But such hyperbole just comes across as silly and self-defeating.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

257. Agreed.

And I think many of the people making third-world claims about America have no fucking idea what a third-world country really looks like.

If they did live in one of those places, they'd be on their hands and knees begging to come back here.

[AllyCat]

179. Your compassion warms my heart. Thank you for being there for this man

Blessed be.

[snooper2]

183. get a freaking clue.....seriously..

[defendandprotect]

195. It's a universal elitism which works together . . . how much of this did

America directly or indirectly create???

Power elite is connected internationally -- always has been.

[snooper2]

201. you do know this country is only few centuries old right?

But I guess you probably have some thread in the dungeon stating 'Merica was created an elite and wealthy cabal from many nations right? :eyes:

[defendandprotect]

206. Did you think Columbus was born here . . . ????

Or maybe you think the RCC originated in America?

Or that there were never Royal Houses/Monarchies because we had none here?

:eyes:

While I have sympathy for your sad state --

your self-assured idiocy precludes my giving you any more help than that!

Happy New Year --





It's a universal elitism which works together . . . how much of this did
America directly or indirectly create???

Power elite is connected internationally -- always has been.
Critical understanding = rebellion = organization = change

[snooper2]

215. I will always wonder what you do for a living D&P

:rofl:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

256. Playing Scrabble with her brain cells?

[anarch]

197. point taken - the whole earth is a miserable shithole

if you are poor. Hell, in the U.S. at least the poor can sometimes find perfectly good food that has been thrown away by the better-off.

I wouldn't personally say I hate this country any more than I hate any other countries. I just hate that our oligarchic system has brought about such an uneven distribution of resources, here and elsewhere.

[wryter2000]

186. We're a barbaric culture

That's the whole point of most of Michael Moore's movies. The clearest example is Bowling for Columbine. Everyone expected a screed about guns. The problem isn't guns. It's fear and hatred and "I got mine...how you doin'?"

[Helga Scow Stern]

187. Thank you for crying.

If more people had cried lots of times before, things would have gone better. There is no doubt about it.

[Subdivisions]

192. Since I'm very late to this post, I can only imagine what was said in the

deleted sub-threads.

Anyways, thank you for helping that person. I'm also a hard-boiled construction worker and I'm saying if you feel like crying, then cry. It just shows how human you are and how humane.

Love to you, brother.

[defendandprotect]

196. kick

[The Backlash Cometh]

199. I love my country, but I hate what the politicially active Christians have done to it.

[whathehell]

230. Oh please...It's not just the "politically active christians"...Some of whom are progressive, btw

It's just as much the "Politically Active Greedy"...Greed needs no God, doing nicely on it's own.

[Irishonly]

200. K&R

You and your wife are the people that make this country good. The working class are the ones that dig deep to help the poor and some have been there, done that. It's disgraceful the government (last administration) hung the poor and the working people out to dry. We can only help one person or family at a time but that is exactly what you and your wife did. The man was not hungry for a little while.

[truebrit71]

204. Thank for your compassion to your fellow man, but I don't hate the Country because of the economy..

..I hate the greedy, selfish, self-centered rich fuckers that have done this to this great country.

[krabigirl]

209. damn straight. And I'll add to that the bigots and hypocrites.

[Patchuli]

207. Don't hate America

As a matter of fact, don't hate anything. It only drains you of anything positive. I loathe the rich 1% that hog the majority of wealth and resources in this country, I loathe the corruption of banksters and Wall Street criminals, I loathe the uncaring attitude of those with too much towards those with nothing. I love America. I think we can work towards a better country and caring for the indigent if we can just get everyone on board. One thing I loved about LBJ was his determination to fight poverty. Bless your hearts for helping those in need.

[JohnnyBoots]

210. The true spirit of Christmas and Christianity ironically exemplified, by what I

am assuming is a blue collar Pagan couple. Christian nation, my ass. If we were, that poor soul would have a job, healthcare and roof over his head. Good on you and yours for doing the right thing, in the face of bad situation.

[krabigirl]

213. exactly.

[bdamomma]

216. goodwill towards men.

you did that through your actions.

[two-fold nature]

220. Well at least you fully understand the solution.

Your handle and avatar make that clear.

Best wishes from a fellow traveler.

I'll be spending Christmas morning returning a small houseful of items back to the man who owns them. I stored them while he went through a time on the streets so he wouldn't lose everything.

[stopbush]

221. I don't know why you say you hate this country. Your act of kindness happened in this country

just as much as the system that put this man in his dire situation happened in this country.

[whathehell]

224. Thank you so much for showing your heart...

I am exactly your age and though I hate to say it, I sometimes feel the same way about our country.

You and your wife are among the best...I hope you know how good it is it is to hear of people, men especially perhaps, with hearts so open...You bring tears to my eyes.

Good luck to you and your family and to ALL of us in this troubled country.:grouphug:

[dembotoz]

226. may we remember this thread and do similar things where we live

may it be our marching orders for the next year and beyound.

[alarimer]

227. I hate the rich and the idiots that can't be bothered to read up on things before they vote.

It is truly insane that there should even be homeless people in this country. Everyone should be able to afford basic necessities: food, shelter and water. If they cannot afford it, it should be provided to them, along with whatever medical, legal, vocational or other help needed for anyone to make a go of it.

We have this dog-eat-dog mentality out there and it sucks. "I got mine, so fuck everybody else" is the prevailing attitude. That's the Republican attitude for sure but I also hear it from otherwise progressive people. My boyfriend, for example, thinks Clinton's welfare reform was such a good idea. This from an otherwise liberal person, maybe not as liberal as I am, but definitely more liberal than mainstream Democrats even. So-called welfare reform was needlessly punitive and restricting. Instead we need a true social safety net.

[Prophet 451]

228. I love you, man

No, I'm not taking the piss. You gave what you could, no dishonour in crying. Sometimes, you gotta cry to keep from screaming.

I love you, man. You did a good thing today.

[TK421]

235. I have mixed feelings about your post, but let me say that you are awesome for what you did

not everyone will gather provisions for a stranger knocking at their door....however, I don't hate this country.....yet. I think that in order for me to hate this country that I also have to ignore the good works that people here do for others ( your OP for example ) Yeah, they may not be as common as we would like, but they are still there. What you did was a selfless act, and if there were a lot more like you, then it would soften the blow of this economic-jobless mess we are in right now. When I see people stabbing each other on the street over a bottle of Mountain Dew then I know it's probably the right time to settle elsewhere

[earthlite]

239. Off with who's head?

I know things are pretty messed up but your screen name is troubling.

[Ticonderoga]

242. Good on ya

May good things go your way. Merry Christmas to you and the Mrs.

[Butch350]

245. I'm crying too - just knowing people like you still exist on this planet!

[Divine Discontent]

255. amen! A VERY GOOD DEED.

[elehhhhna]

246. didn't you post here when the box guy came? i think i remember that post.

best to you. you change lives. you've made miracles. heck, the opportunity just shows up knocking! those must be some good vibes y'all are radiating.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

265. Yep, that was me.

Disturbed then, disturbed now

[txaslftist]

252. Getting to cause and effect is really difficult here.

Why are people going hungry? Why does it take two people working full time to support the same income that one person working full time used to? Our money is worth less. A silver dollar from the days when we used them as currency is worth around $15.00. We are taxed, depending on where you live, at something like 45-55% of our income. Our forefathers launched a revolution in large part because of the imposition of a tax that was under 10%.

Innovation is being stifled, growth is being stifled, and wall street gamblers have made off with a huge chunk of our national wealth.

We are in a depression, not a recession, and jobs are hard to find. But one percent of our population (the same one percent that controls our government) is getting richer and richer, peddling us devalued dollars and transfering our real wealth into their pockets. Our military budget exceeds that of the rest of the world combined. Our prison population is higher than any other nation in the world.

This is not barbarism, it's fascism. An unholy alliance between government and corporatism and so we are ground beneath the feet of our masters. If you can connect all the dots and see the picture clearly, the beggar at your door becomes inevitable.

[ClarkUSA]

254. I hate what 8 years of BushCo has wrought. Hope the man gets to a food bank soon.

I had to give someone I know some info today on how to get to his closest food bank today.
He's happy because his UI got extended by 5 months, thanks to the Democratic Congress
and Pres. Obama and I helped sign him up to energy assistance and a low-cost state
medical insurance program for those near the poverty line.

There are alot of good folks doing good work these days and unlike BushCo, the Obama
administration is giving states lots of stimulus money to support these kind of assistance
services. I like this country but lots of people are hurting and need help. I keep telling
folks that 2010 should be better than 2009.

[TheUnspeakable]

258. k&r

[Liberation Angel]

259. What you hate is much deeper than "This Country" NOT "This Country" at all - it is Corporofascism

A small elite of fascist corporatists control the entire planet.

Our country itself is not the problem, it is the manipulation of the electorate by these fascist elites.

This represents a VERY small minority of what this country is.

AND it is a global problem.

WE as a Nation, as an aggregate of citizens, are responsible only to the degree that we have power to change these things.

YOU exercised that power as one of this country - as a caring humane citizen. Kudos to you.

AND you are part of this country. You are part of what there is to love about this country.

I applaud what you did and appreciate your expression of hatred of injustice and societal and cultural inhumanity, but I think you have it wrong on this minor point: it is not really the country that you hate -- but the things that are wrong with it.

[Fire1sKid]

260. +10000000000000000000

:hug:

[totodeinhere]

261. I love this country.

That's why I want to change it for the better with a progressive agenda. I had thought that it was the teabag crowd that hates this country.

[AsahinaKimi]

262. You are so very kind !

Anata wa totemo yasashii desuyo! San Francisco is not much better. There are so many homeless living at the United Nations Plaza, one block from City Hall. There are people sleeping in door ways of closed buildings, and seeking shelter under bridges. One can see the poverty in the city, including those who have served their country, the veterans. It is such a sad thing! San Francisco also has many "soup kitchens" and food pantries but it never seems to have enough. Hopefully people here will think about it and donate to those who need it the most.