If you lay down with tea baggers.....

[WCGreen]

You will get those awful tea stains that are almost impossible to get out...

I suppose you could Shout them out!

Seriously, in politics, you are defined by the company you keep. I find that I can oppose the democratic party when the time comes without having to give legitimacy to a bunch of raging lunatics who aren't even sure what they are all upset about.

I personally don't feel as betrayed as some here do. I admit, I have been upset over the way stuff has played out over the last few months. Especially when it comes to not making those who committed the most egregious actions against the fabric of our Democrcy by the Bush Administration accountable for their actions.

But we, as a country, can always go back and revisit legislation once it is passed.

We can not, however, turn back the precedent set by giving the likes of John Yoo what is essentially a free pass. If we do not prosecute those who mounted attacks against the Constitution, then I fear that in the future, cancerous sores such as Yoo will appear again and this time they will have some legitimate legal defense.

And don't get me started over the lack of reform directed at those financial companies operating against the citizens of this country.

This is just a start for Health Care reform. It will be revisited time and time again over the coming decades. Both Medicare and Social Security started as modest programs that, when people saw that the GOP was making much ado about nothing, the country did not fall, have become inseparable from the average American's life.

Please Channel your anger where it belongs, fighting against the Republicans in November of 2010. And don't forget your statehouse races. All the congressional districts will be redrawn after the 2010 census is completed. In most states it is a political process that determines how the districts will be drawn. Don't throw in with Tea Baggers and end up shutting down the voice of progress for the next ten years.

[NYC_SKP]

1. Many won't listen, those who will are already on board. Recommended.

Also recommending this read:

I'm reading Sanders' press releases, got there from a DKos diary.

Just wondering if you've seen it and have an opinion.

Diary:

45,000,000 get single-payer care =vs.= 3,000,000 P.O. tickets ??? -- Cummon folks.

THIS IS IMPORTANT.

Ted Kennedy's existing CHC program expands along lines developed by Bernie Sanders and Ben Cardin.

The single best thing to happen for America's working poor since food stamps:

-- 14,000 nationwide Community Health Clinics

-- Expand CHC capabilities to match VHA technology

-- 45,000,000 people served

-- $$$$$ to attract 20,000 primary care physicians, nurses, etc.

-- Drugs at VHA prices

-- Dental care

-- Patient billing scaled to income

-- No profit motive. 1/5th the cost of Emergency Room treatment.

Alan Frumin, the Senate Parliamentarian, showed last April that non-budgetary insurance sections would not qualify for reconciliation. Filibusters would doom any Senate P.O.

Care is separated completely from any billing.

Harry Reid concealed Sanders-Cardin till the last hour, then popped it into the Senate HCR Bill.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/12/22/818060/-This-HCR-Bill:-45,000,000-Get-Single-Payer-Vermont-Health-Care

Sanders: http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=2F6CC5A1-C9D2-46CA-902E-E3D0EFD94232
and
http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=30b2a415-4ade-4367-af7d-4c3306e31b58

:patriot:

[WCGreen]

3. Sounds good to me....

Thanks!

[cliffordu]

13. Is there an original OP on this yet??

should be. Nice catch.

[NYC_SKP]

101. I know, there should be. Go for it.

Then I'll come in and hijack it.

:P

[LooseWilly]

56. I've heard rumors of Sanders "shaking down" the process for these community health care clinics...

I approve!

Bernie Sanders may be the real hero of the Health Care Fiasco of '09 when all is said and done... if these community health centers do what I would think that they can do... well, I'd vote for Sanders for President in '12.

With these community health centers in place, eventually, what about repealing the mandates?... as the uninsured will have a better option than the private insurance industries... but they'll need those dollars that the mandate will be shaking them down for in order to pay for costs associated with the community health centers... and the treatments will likely keep us out of the ERs...

Too logical?

[leftstreet]

2. Stop bashing Teabaggers. At least they're mobilizing

We have the SAME economic interests and we SHOULD be aligning those interests

[WCGreen]

5. And I bet three months ago you were laughing at them...

I've been at this game for 35 years now and this recent incarnation of right wing anger will dissipate just like the Perot people morphed back into the GOP and the Wallace people joined the GOP...

[ipaint]

26. Not with the mandate.

or what it buys-

"Some paint the Senate bill as a flawed first step to reform that will be improved over time, citing historical examples such as Social Security. But where Social Security established the nidus of a public institution that grew over time, the Senate bill proscribes any such new public institution. Instead, it channels vast new resources – including funds diverted from Medicare – into the very private insurers who caused today’s health care crisis. Social Security’s first step was not a mandate that payroll taxes which fund pensions be turned over to Goldman Sachs!

While the fortification of private insurers is the most malignant aspect of the bill, several other provisions threaten harm to vulnerable patients, including:

* The bill’s anti-abortion provisions would restrict reproductive choice, compromising the health of women and adolescent girls.

* The new 40 percent tax on high-cost health plans – deceptively labeled a “Cadillac tax” – would hit many middle-income families. The costs of group insurance are driven largely by regional health costs and the demography of the covered group. Hence, the tax targets workers in firms that employ more women (whose costs of care are higher than men’s), and older and sicker employees, particularly those in high-cost regions such as Maine and New York.

* The bill would drain $43 billion from Medicare payments to safety-net hospitals, threatening the care of the 23 million who will remain uninsured even if the bill works as planned. These threatened hospitals are also a key resource for emergency care, mental health care and other services that are unprofitable for hospitals under current payment regimes. In many communities, severely ill patients will be left with no place to go – a human rights abuse.

* The bill would leave hundreds of millions of Americans with inadequate insurance – an “actuarial value” as low as 60 percent of actual health costs. Predictably, as health costs continue to grow, more families will face co-payments and deductibles so high that they preclude adequate access to care. Such coverage is more akin to a hospital gown than to a warm winter coat."


http://pnhp.org/blog/2009/12/22/pro-single-payer-physicians-call-for-defeat-of-senate-health-bill/


This isn't progress.

[leftstreet]

37. I bet a year ago you were thrilled some of them voted for Obama

You do realize that many conservatives and independents voted for Obama?

[WCGreen]

47. Somehow I doubt they were tea baggers...

[babylonsister]

9. Jeeze. You've shown your colors. We should be aligning

with the teabaggers???! Give me a big break, but your opinion explains a whole lot. :eyes: and ugh.

[leftstreet]

11. Whatsa matter? Working class people don't appeal to you?

Because that's what they are.

Just like the rest of us

[Hannah Bell]

52. +1. Political identity is a fluid thing. "teabagger" isn't genetic; if the Dems were behaving

more like Dems on economics, some of those "teabaggers" would turn Dem.

[nemo137]

99. They're fundamentally opposed to what we want.

They want to return to some kind of mythical time when we were a White Protestant Nation. They want "states rights," which somehoe is never invoked to expand individual rights. They're drawing from the crazier bits of the Christian Right and the Randists. These are not our allies. They are not the working class' allies either. They're being bankrolled by the same corproate interests that you're supposedly so against. It's not disdain of the working class, it's justifiable unwillingness to work with people who are fundamentally opposed to what we believe.

[NNN0LHI]

60. That isn't the only teabagger running around here

And thats a promise.

We are infiltrated.

Don

[Bluenorthwest]

64. You're perfectly fine being associated with hate preachers

such as McClurkin. Is that somehow alright, people who accuse minorities they don't like of 'trying to kill our children' are alright for you to align with, and Obama?
How do you rationalize that in your mind? The double standard?

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leftstreet]

27. lol

[DailyGrind51]

59. So was the KKK during the Great Depression, but they opposed the Labor Movement.

The Teabaggers oppose the expansion of government that "we" believe is essential to protecting us from corporate dominance.

[leftstreet]

106. Can you blame them really?

'We' are expanding a government that bails out banks, shovels money to the War Machine, and is about to throw even more of OUR tax dollars at the Insurance/Pharma industry.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but they have a point

[apocalypsehow]

103. Haaaa ha haaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha haaaaaa haaa ha haaa haaa ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaa

[ipaint]

4. The system is broke, the status quo sucks.

Has for over 30 years.

Social security wasn't passed with a mandate to buy from goldman sachs. Wake up.

Time to look for alternatives. Which has nothing to do with sacrificing principles. Something today's politicians on both sides are clueless about.

Funny I was watching Howard Zinns special on the history channel and the common thread was things change when the working class and poor stop backing down, compromising and meeting in the middle. It was the people who stood on principle and wouldn't budge that change things for the better.

About time people start saying enough. If they can find common ground with their supposed enemies, so be it.

[WCGreen]

8. I read Howard Zinn years ago,didn't have to wait for the history channel...

[ipaint]

16. I did too, years ago, but the point really was driven home

the other night considering our present political circumstances.

[WCGreen]

22. I watched it as well and MrsWCGreen went out to the garage and dug

my old copy of the book so she could read it...

[ipaint]

24. That's funny! my husband asked me for mine. He had never read it. n/t

[LostInAnomie]

6. Anyone that aligns themselves with the teabaggers is a fucking idiot.

They need to get over their hurt feelings and think rationally before they align themselves with the absolute antithesis of progressivism.

[sabrina 1]

41. Isn't that just 'bi-partisanship'? Obama says there is 'one America'

He ran on the idea that there are 'no Liberals, no Conservatives, only Americans'. He angered many minorities when he said there are no special groups with special issues. Everyone cheered and said 'yes we can'!

Now Jane Hamsher agrees with him on that at least, and she's a 'fucking idiot'! :eyes:

[LostInAnomie]

49. If she is advocating teaming up with teabaggers, then she is a fucking idiot.

As is anyone else advocating the idea.

It's the same kind of childish action a teenager takes when they are pissed at their parent.

[sabrina 1]

50. So you don't agree with Obama that we are 'all Americans',

You don't agree with him that we should try to get along with the rightwing in a spirit of bi-partisanship for the sake of the country ~ I haven't heard Obama or his front man, Rahm, attack Teabaggers. I have seen Rahm say that the 'Left' should be ignored. Not very bi-partisan of him, I have to say.

I never agreed with his bi-partisan strategy either. But he kisses the feet of the right and slams the left and pushes a bill that is a gift to Private Ins. Corps. So blame him if the 'left' goes elsewhere looking for allies. He betrayed his base and worse admonishes them as if they children. Jane can go wherever she wants now, he told us to get lost basically didn't he? Let Rahm try to shut her up if he can as he tried to do before. Did you really think that people would just STFU because Rahm told them to? I wish Obama had included his base, his biggest supporters, in the Health Care process as he promised, but he didn't. These are the consequences of bad political strategy.

[LostInAnomie]

58. I don't think it's much of a consequence at all.

It's a bunch of blovating from people that are pissed and lashing out. There is very little serious thought behind it, and should be laughed at instead of feared. But, I'm sure there are a few idiots that will cut their nose off to spite their face. They don't deserve any respect for it though.

You know why Rahm feels comfortable saying that the Left should be ignored? Because he knows that the Left has the self destructive tendency to come up with idiotic ideas like this that are counter productive and only serve to marginalize their position. Instead of working with the political realities, forming cogent stratagies, and implementing effective actions, they blow up in an indignant fit flinging shit and claiming betrayal by everyone from the President down to posters on an internet forum. There is nothing to be feared from a group like that.

[ClassWarrior]

86. Who's saying "align" with them? The OP is suggesting USING them.

It's idiotic to identify with the teabag movement. Why not show them their idiocy and co-opt them to our side?

NGU.

[babylonsister]

7. Thanks. I think this is much ado about nothing other than people getting

their hate on for something that will benefit many people.

Instead of comparing how teabaggers compare to us, as leftstreet does, we should be be fighting them.

[Hekate]

10. KnR

[gardenista]

12. I've always like you

right now I love you...

[sabrina 1]

14. And if you lie down with Joe Lieberman

and Ben (anti-women's rights) Nelson, or Goldman Sachs or the Republican wing of the Democratic Party and Big Pharma. When you invite Republicans to your table and ignore your base, you begin to look like a sell-out.

I'd rather someone who tries to convert tea-baggers to a progressive pov, at least on Health Care, than someone who sells out the very people who put him in office. The first is a minor issue, the second is pretty major. But apologists will try to use the first to distract from the second.

[Libertas1776]

15. +1

[girl gone mad]

36. +infinity.

I don't understand the mentality that tells us it's okay to compromise our interests away in the name of "bipartisanship" so that corrupt mega-corporations and sleazy Republicans can get their wants met, yet it's not okay for us to try and "reach across the aisle" to teabaggers so that we can get our needs met.

[sabrina 1]

51. Lol, it's hilarious, isn't it? There's no logic to it.

'Reaching across the aisle' yes, I remember that. Isn't that all Jane Hamsher is doing?

[noise]

17. Criticism from the left should not be confused with criticism from the right

It isn't the same. People on the left oppose corporatism. People on the right are cheering for fascism.

[WCGreen]

18. Right on!

[noise]

23. In your OP

you implied that criticism from the left is similar to that of the teabaggers. It isn't true. People on the left are against the bill because they perceive it to be too friendly to the insurance companies.

[Bobbie Jo]

29. Baggers don't 'do' nuance.

The ends justify the means, they'll be welcomed with open arms.

The enemy of the enemy is my friend, ect.....

[WCGreen]

35. I'm sorry if somehow you were able to deduce that from my post...

But I was saying the Tea Baggers are a fringe group that is very unfocused and more about getting attention than actually doing something productive...

No where did I imply that those on the left were the same unfocused mass of discontent...

I said that if people on the left try to align with tea baggers, they will be associated with them...

[noise]

42. Thanks for the clarification

Still it sounds like you are suggesting that democrats should tolerate the conduct of the Democratic party because the risks of the GOP regaining control are too high. People on the left are pissed because Democratic politicians are acting like Republicans. That isn't acceptable conduct. At some point the pathetic excuses ("we don't have 100 Senate seats") no longer register.

I agree with your teabagger point. Nobody on the left should align with them. They are cheerleading for fascism and Shock Doctrine economic policies.

[eridani]

19. "Starting" health care reform should NOT mean going backwards n/t

[WCGreen]

20. Getting rid of lifetime caps and abolishing pre existing conditions as

a way to deny coverage are huge changes in Health Care in this country...

[eridani]

39. They can be easily evaded

Got a pre-existing condition that has gotten you behind on your bills? Great--you can be denied for having bad credit. And the Senate bill has stuck yearly caps back in anyway.

[Hannah Bell]

53. substituted with yearly caps, & the preexisting condition of age.

[mmonk]

62. Thanks for saying that.

The loopholes abound.

[Ozymanithrax]

25. Allowing parents to keep their children on their insurance until the age of 27...

is a curious way of going backwards. Since we have never done that before, the backward route to get there is difficult to find.

[WCGreen]

30. That is another change that is going to help a lot of kids find their bering

without having to settle for a job just because it offers health care...

[dflprincess]

38. Minnesota has allowed it for children up to age 25 for a few years now

However, there is one big loop hole. It only applies to people on fully insured plans, if the parent's employer has an ASO, then the adult child doesn't have to be covered unless they are in school.

Anyone know if the federal plan has the same kind of loop hole?

[Ozymanithrax]

40. In California it is 24 with some strict limitations on eligibility.

This is a great provision.

[Hannah Bell]

54. it's a curious way of going "forward," too. it says something about economic expectations.

[LooseWilly]

57. That provision presumes that the parents have health insurance plans...

If a child's parents have no health insurance, that point is irrelevant.

Just saying...

[Ozymanithrax]

66. But it is not irrelevent to those who do, and to more than 30 million who will have it...

I know a lot of parents between 38 and 57, who keep their kids on their insurance for as long as possible. It helps the kids who are in college, or those who are not yet making enough, or those who would gamble with their health if they had to pay for it themselves.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

28. I do not understand anyone who unrecs this thread.

Therefore: K&R

Your experience has stood you in good stead.

[jonnyblitz]

43. maybe because it's stupid as fuck. but what can we expect

after "Taylor Swift is androgynous". :crazy: :silly:

K and UNREC

[CaliforniaPeggy]

44. I'd say you don't know WCGreen.

He is a friend of mine, and though he is capable of making mistakes (and that Taylor Swift thread WAS a mistake), he is very intelligent and knows what he's talking about.

This thread is an example of that.

He is far from stupid, believe me.

[WCGreen]

45. please see the mea culpa...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x9181648

However, I still had a point to that post as well as this one...

Perhaps you just can't desern nuance for all the distracting references...

[EFerrari]

55. Everyone is a little cranky right now, WC. Don't take it to heart.

It's been a long week or two.

[Zomby Woof]

46. LOL!

Truly. :thumbsup:

[EFerrari]

48. Maybe because when you consider the toxic, dangerous and cynical people

the president has surrounded himself with, teabaggers look pretty innocuous?

:(

[SemiCharmedQuark]

69. "teabaggers look pretty innocuous"

[EFerrari]

92. In comparison to McChrystal who hid tortured prisoners from the ICRC?

Please don't cherry pick what I'm saying.

I know exactly what teabaggers are and I also called Cynthia's office, before the teabaggers even started, to warn her that Palin was having Klan rallies that seemed designed to incite racial hatred and violence, btw.

[girl gone mad]

31. Defined by the company you keep, you say?

[WCGreen]

33. Well, those pictures say it all...

But it isn't going to make me run out and glom onto tea baggers just because things didn't go my way this time...

[phasma ex machina]

88. A lot of love in the club, no?

:puke:

[New Dawn]

32. If you lay down with the DLC, you become the GOP.

[xchrom]

34. If you lay down w/ cigna -- you wake up a whore

And as much a part of the problem as it ever was.

[Major Hogwash]

61. Hasn't John Yoo been convicted yet?

When the hell does his trial start?

Probably about the same time Tom Delay goes to court, the 11th of Never.

[Bluenorthwest]

63. So 'the company one keeps' eh? Donnie McClurkin

Rick Warren. Kirbyjon Caldwell. Do they define the President? When they declare war on gay people, and accuse us of murderous intent, are they not raging lunatics? On the platform with Obama, by Obama's choice?
Are you saying that if I stand with the President I'm standing with those hate preachers? Seems like you are. I'll pass on that thanks. I love my family. I stand with us, not with raging lunatics and their political partners. How's that?

[WCGreen]

72. I made my point then didn't I....

But my point is not a either or statment...

It's not either, for me at least, the Tea Baggers or the Gay Bashing Preachers...

By the way, Tea Baggers are, in my opinion, more likely to siddle up to the likes of Rick Warren than say my Unitarian Preacher...

[baldguy]

65. People who oppose the bill b/c it doesn't have enough reform are NOT teabaggers.

Only fools make such comparisons.

[WCGreen]

68. Only fools don't read what is written and miss the big huge part

about people who are wanting to siddle up to the tea baggers...

I'm just repeating what some people are saying they will do to fight the present form of Health Care, join up with tea baggers...

[Barack_America]

67. If you lay down with the Blue Dogs, you're sure to get fleas.

I'll stick with the liberals, thank you very much.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

70. Teabaggers aren't liberals.

[Barack_America]

73. And?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

74. And that is what the OP is about. It isn't advocating aligning with the Blue Dogs.

[Barack_America]

76. If the OP can make the claim that not supporting the Senate HCR bill...

...is akin to aligning with teabaggers, then I feel justified in suggesting that support of it aligns one with the Blue Dogs.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

77. I think the OP is talking about the people (some in this very thread) who are trying to paint the

teabaggers as just regular ol' concerned citizens and advocating that we do align with them. Not people saying the HCR bill is bad, people actually saying that we should team up with the teabaggers.

[WCGreen]

71. So because I don't wish to associate myself with teabaggers you

are able to make the leep that I would then settle down with the Blue Dogs?

Cause that's what you seem to be saying.

[Barack_America]

75. Who here do you honestly think agrees with teabaggers?

It's absurd.

[WCGreen]

79. It's over the Jane H dust up...

Some of the people posting in support of her are willing to align with the far right to defeat the Senate Bill.

That is what I am commenting on.

The old adage that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

I just put into words my experience with the Perot people back in 1994 when they tried to cobble together a third party.

But the Tea Baggers are far worse since they are racist in nature and even more confused about issues than even the most strident Perot supporter.

The comment wasn't made nor should it imply to anyone not considering aligning with the Tea Baggers.

If you took it as if I believe there is a strong sentiment here on DU to join forces with Tea Baggers, you obviously didn't read the OP.

And that would be absurd.

[Barack_America]

80. I don't see that backstory in the OP.

[WCGreen]

81. When I originally posted, there were several threads talking about that

dust up. I was writing in the context of that moment...

And if you look at what I did say, I was just gave a warning against marginalizing oneself by determining your political associations with the enemy of my enemy approach.

The tea baggers were a pithy way to get to my point.

I do believe a lot of people missed my point because they focused on the words "tea baggers" which is their fault and not mine...

I remember when I ran for the State Senate and this group of business people approached me about supporting gambling here in my state. They offered large sums of money to my campaign. I choose to decline that offer in order to keep my political integrity. I lost the campaign.

Now if I had told that story, how much ump ph would it have received.

By using Tea Baggers, I thought I could make a point to those considering an alliance with tea baggers who are against this version of Health Care. Choosing ones political allies is not something to be done in any highly charged atmosphere.

[newspeak]

83. I heard it on TV last night

just because some of us are very unhappy with this crap bill-now they are trying to align us with the teabaggers. I believe the teabaggers is not a grassroots organization, that they have been gathered by influence and funded by corporate interests, faux network and people like Armey. I believe they were formed in particular to influence the making of this shite bill, thus drowning out those who wanted real reform. Some of those teabaggers are industry employees or relatives of employees; and others, are just plain sheeple. That's my thoughts, wrong or right.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

95. well said

[freddie mertz]

78. Speak for yourself. Dems have caved to teabag policies.

And mindless support for one leader, regardless of what that leader says or does, is teabaggery at best.

[WCGreen]

82. You sure didn't read the rest of my post about not supporting the

ignoring of John Yoo's many transgressions as well as the cavalier manner in which reform of Financial Institutions has been sloughed off...

You should make political allies for the long run and not for the convenience of the moment...

[freddie mertz]

84. But no one here is siding with the tea baggers.

Your rhetorical claim is just wrong on the merits, and operates, intentionally or not, as unhelpful and divisive flame-bait.

[WCGreen]

87. I didn't just conjure up the association from thin air...

There were people in posts supporting Jane H yesterday who were flirting with the idea...

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Not a large number but it did catch my eye and that is why I used the tea baggering example. Plus I was able to use Shout as the name of a detergent as well as pointing out the true nature of tea bagging protests..

[WCGreen]

94. Several posts in this thread allude to sliding close to the Tea Baggers

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7303603

[Lydia Leftcoast]

85. Please people, it's "If you LIE DOWN with teabaggers..."

Pardon the grammar stickler moment, but that's one of my pet peeves.

[NuttyFluffers]

89. sad attempt to smear the upset left through false association... was this necessary?

this is a complete false equivalency if i ever saw one. why is this even here except to cause people to take the cheap debate tactics bait and cause general discord? honestly, there are better ways to bring people over to your side besides ridiculing them through incomprehensible analogies.

[WCGreen]

90. Maybe just incomprehensible to people who can't read objectively.

I stand by my arguement.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

91. Let's get one thing straight: The Teabaggers are people who SHOULD be our allies

Why aren't they?

Because the Democrats were both asleep at the switch and corrupted by campaign contributions.

They let the yuppies take over the party. They ignored the growing right-wing media menace and even enabled it by deregulating the broadcast industry. They failed to undo any of the damage the right-wing has done. Many actually supported NAFTA and other bits of class warfare.

The Teabaggers are justifiably angry, but they are not at all well-informed. They don't know whom to be angry at. Along comes the right wing to tell them to hate liberals. OK, they'll hate liberals. Their reasons don't make sense, but at least they have an outlet for their anger.

Propaganda WORKS. That's why companies spend billions per year on advertising. That's why Murdoch runs Fox News and the Wall Street Journal.

If the Dems had been doing things that helped ordinary people AND funded PR efforts to explain what they were doing, there would be hardly any Teabaggers to recruit.

[nemo137]

100. I wish you were right.

But I think that even without Fox news, there'd be a Teabagger movement. This kind of thing has been around since the 60s. I think it's a fairly robust outcome.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

108. But I've observed through my life that happy people don't hate

If the working class and rural people felt secure about their futures, would the Teabagger movement ever be more than a few dozen old grouches?

[leftstreet]

104. +!00000000000000000000

:applause:

[Neecy]

93. The attacks on Hamsher here have been ridiculous

And she never advocated hooking up with teabaggers. She targeted Libertarians in her piece for HuffPo.

That said, I can't imagine anything more odious than finding some kind - any kind - of alliance with teabaggers. These people often racist, anti-abortion gun nuts and are ignorant and easily whipped up. Our views on economics are completely opposed. Anyone who thinks we should reach out to them haven't been following their message for very long.

[Orsino]

96. Know who else was against health care reform?

Hitler.

:eyes:

[BlooInBloo]

97. Fuck teabaggers. Fuck those who align with them...

And fuck Nader, his supporters, and Lars Ulrich as well, just for good measure.

[fascisthunter]

98. lol... so dishonest. Yet, more Hyperbole by the right wing within the democratic Party

all while the right wing in the democratic party has aligned with Ayn Rand and Reagonomics, another term for fascism. The Tea Baggers may be highly misinformed, but one thing they have right; there is an elite in this country and they run BOTH parties today.

So while people claim they are nuts or misinformed as I do think some of them are, they seem to have more brains than the cheerleaders here, and that is something educated and informed people who cheerlead should be ashamed of.

[AuntPatsy]

102. K & R though for some it is a passionate outrage yell is displeasure they need

to get out instead of hitting something so simply need to vent on du in writing instead of using actual violence, but for others on du is just another attempt to shut down those who know what happens when you take that outrage with you to the voting booth,

and I for one will not sit by and say nothing when I know what that will accomplish, regardless of what feel about our president and those closet to him, he is still a dem and as a dem, always a better choice that a republican who have yet to prove themselves capable of any real reform in that such will help the citizens of this country not continue to bring them down.

as far as the health care bill, I am still in the hoping camp that when the final vote is taken and the bill passes and it will I have no doubt, it will not be the one that would make a republican salivate with excitement no matter how much they pretend they care, actions speak louder than words...

The real enemy is the republicans, fact, they are the ones destroying this bill, why in the world are people ignoring that fact....

The changes even if some Dem's want it in there that hurt us would not be in there if not for the republicans input and someone's false push to have us believe they are attempting to allow for republicans to have a voice..

They had their voice, the republicans did, its in the bill, read it, ignore their posturing in the voting room...actions...much louder than mere words..

[donco6]

105. . . . you wake up with a cheerleader!

And SS and Medicare didn't start by fluffing the whankers of the richest corporations in the history of humanity, so that they can mount even LARGER war chests to fight any possibility of reform for . . . well, IMO, forever.

This IS all the "reform" you're going to get.

I'll still participate in local issues, but I'll never support another candidate ever again.

[bvar22]

107. YES!

The White House should have NEVER laid down with the Health Insurance and Pharma Lobbyists while crafting this Bill.

They will NEVER get the stains out of this Corporate Giveaway masquerading as "reform".

But, after all, Obama never campaigned on a Public Option...did he?