Ed Schultz Being Bone-Headed on HCR With Rep. Elijah Cummings

[stopbush]

From today's installment of The Ed Show:

Rep. Cummings making the case that Obama's time is NOW. The time to make a difference and pass healthcare is NOW.

Ed disagrees.

Why not shelve HCR until next year, asks Ed? Then, you can get Obama out on the stump where he can energize young voters and tell them, "we need to elect more progressive people to the House and Senate so we can pass REAL reform and do it right from the get-go." Ed feels PASSIONATELY that this is the way to go.

Right.

And just how effective would Obama be next year after being handed a MAJOR DEFEAT on HCR? How many D Congress critters would be willing to line-up behind another go at HCR after suffering such a huge defeat? How many young people are going to consider Obama to be a strong leader after suffering such a defeat at the hands of his own Party? Did you say, "none?"

Here's an idea, Ed: PASS the HCR NOW. Then, Obama can go out on the stump with a MAJOR VICTORY under his belt. He can use it against the Rs...AND - he can get out there energizing young voters with a STRONG message of,"we passed HCR, but it was only the beginning. We need more progressives in Congress to continue the work."

But, no, purist Ed thinks it's smarter to take a defeat of major proportions and head back to the one-yard line and start the whole thing over...and to do so in an election year, no less.

Heaven save us from this kind of bone-headed thinking!

[Donnachaidh]

1. Dissent is such a boneheaded thing.

Hey, let's marginalize him and call him names so his opinion doesn't carry any weight.

Pick that up at the puke debating class? How genuinely Rovian of you!

[daa]

8. I agree we should send Ed to Guantanamo

they didn't close that did they? Or right, I bet Obama will say he never ran on that either.

[daa]

9. I agree we should send Ed to Guantanamo

they didn't close that did they? Or right, I bet Obama will say he never ran on that either.

[stopbush]

10. Nothing wrong with dissent, but his strategy is lame.

[TiberiusGracchus]

2. Right, let's just keep voting for people who promise everything and then betray our principles n/t

[The Gunslinger]

3. "MAJOR VICTORY"

The corporate for profit health care industry are the only ones who gain a major victory with this new corporate welfare bill. ED is right, but Obama won't do anything about it.

[Hello_Kitty]

4. Here's the problem with the "pass something now and improve it later" line of thinking

Since this clunker is the BEST we can do with a Democratic majority in Congress and a Democratic President, the notion that we can improve on it requires not only maintaining those majorities and the Presidency, but for a decisive leftward swing in both those bodies. What are the odds of that? The health insurance industry is going to be pouring millions into lobbying against any improvements, not to mention against enforcing what has been passed. Meanwhile they will be pouring millions into getting industry-friendly Republicans and Conserva-Dems elected.

[lib2DaBone]

5. K/R When the true monster shows it's face....

People will beg to go back to the way it was before 12/24/09.

Big Insurance wrote this bill.. they were even filmed on CNN HANDING Baucus the text he was instructed to insert in the bill.

Does anyone think that Big Insurance put one bit of data in this bill that helps Taxpayers? You got to be kidding? What don't you get?

[stopbush]

12. And your way guarantees the deaths of 45,000 Americans this year

because they'll have no insurance whatsoever.

I hope you can live with yourself.

BTW - it's the best we can do with our razor-thin margin in the Senate. Obama doesn't enjoy the margin that FDR enjoyed where he had 80 Ds in the Senate.

And you fail to understand the legislative process that works and did work for Medicare and SS. That's t get the basic thing up and running and improve it in small increments, increments that are easier to get through the Congress for the simple fact that they aren't sweeping changes.

[lib2DaBone]

13. Yes.. I can live withmyself because...

I was right on TARP. I knew it was a scam. I was right on WMD's and IRAQ. I was "right" on the Patriot Act and the Military Commissions Act.

I was "right" on niger yellow cake and Bush's lies.

I ate a ton of crap here on DU and I was told to shut up.

So being "Right" isn't all it's cracked up to be. Being right means: "That and a quarter will get you a cup of coffee"....(maybe)

This health care bill is WRONG-WRONG-WRONG.. and I won't put lipstick on a pig. I won't duck and cover so some people can remain in denial.

6 months from now when we ration health care and the same 45 million people are un-insured..and the rest of the people are in jail because they had the audacity to be unemployed... I WON"T be part of this hoax.

[Hello_Kitty]

16. Oh wow. Nice emotional blackmail there.

Hey, if it's the best we can do and it will save lives, so be it. But don't sit there and act like it can be improved later, when that is highly unlikely.

Just be honest about it.

[stopbush]

17. Let history be your guide.

The Constitution didn't come out of the box fully formed. None of the great liberal initiatives came out of the box fully formed.

Want to tell me how highly unlikely it was that the Constitution and Medicare could have been improved later?

The important move is to get the foot in the door, and to get the process started. Improvements do happen because nothing is static. Nature abhors a vacuum and so does governance.

THAT is being honest. I don't know what you're drinking, but whatever it its, it's making you blind to history.

BTW - since when is the truth considered emotional blackmail? Answer: when you haven't thought through the ramifications of your position and are projecting your discomfort on your opponent.

[Hello_Kitty]

18. Name something after Reagan that was improved.

There was an important shift in the politics of this country that happened around that time. Unless and until we get corporate money out of elections and legislation, I am not hopeful for a major shift in the status-quo.

I'm drinking Chardonnay, BTW.

[stopbush]

22. Easy, the Freedom of Information Act.

It was signed into law by LBJ in 1966 and has been improved and expanded any number of times since, especially under President Clinton.

Thanks for the softball question. Got any others?

[Hello_Kitty]

24. FOIA has benefited conservatives every bit as much, if not more, than liberals

There's a right wing think tank here in AZ called the Goldwater Institute that uses it constantly to go after agencies to "expose" them. I suppose you are right about FOIA but how's that NAFTA revision going? How about No Child Left Behind? Welfare Reform? Financial Deregulation?

[stopbush]

26. How about the Clean Air Act and other environmental laws?

They effect all Americans, Ds tend to strengthen them, Rs look to weaken them.

How about the Civil Rights Act of 1964. It has not only been strengthened by amendment, but by case law. There is every possibility that the courts will be involved in the future in expanding HCR.

How about legislation defining and dealing with Hate Crimes? That got signed when Poppy bush was POTUS.

How about Social Security (the granddaddy of them all) which has been revised and expanded since Reagan left office?

All of these laws directly effect all Americans, just as does HCR. They've all been amended and improved after they were initially signed into law.

I've played your game, done your research for you and provided answers to counter your assertions. Why not resign gracefully and enjoy your chardonnay?

On edit: I find it strange that you take issue with the fact that the FOIA has benefited conservatives as much as liberals. Doesn't a GOOD law benefit ALL Americans?

And you're one of the people who rails against people offering their opinion on HCR when they have a personal stake in it passing.

You asked for an example of a law that had been improved after it was first enacted and I've provided them. Just because Rs are more adept at using the FOIA doesn't mean it's a crappy law.

Jane? Jane Hamsher? Is that you?

[Hello_Kitty]

27. Clean Air Act? Are you kidding me? Healthy Skies! Healthy Forests Initiative!

Pulling out of Kyoto!

[stopbush]

29. As I said in the post DIRECTLY ABOVE yours, Ds tend to strengthen them,

Rs tend to weaken them.

The best you can do is to reference R attempts to weaken good laws. That's pretty pathetic, HK. And you bring up Kyoto a week after Obama went to Copenhagen.

Can't you do better? You're not even trying for a semi-cogent rebuttal.

[Hello_Kitty]

30. Yes! And my point is that R's tend to get elected far too often these days

We need a long term Dem majority, with a preponderance of progressive Dems to get the changes you think we're going to get with HCR.

[stopbush]

31. ??? Ds control every branch of the Fed gov and have the majority of governors.

So how can you say that "Rs tend to get elected far too often these days?"

Again, I'll have what ever you're drinking. Wait, I'm not a fan of chardonnay.

Hey - have a Happy Holiday! I mean that.

[Raineyb]

21. Health insurance != Health care

What part of that is difficult for people to understand?

[Atticus]

6. I'm not sure that Ed is right, but I'm also not sure you are.

Do you really think "young people" consider Obama to be a strong leader NOW?

It is my understanding that the Senate bill does not contain any type of public option (which he DID campaign on), does not allow re-import of drugs, allows charging up to 3 or 4 times the usual premium for a pre-existing condition, does not end insurers' anti-trust exemptions and DOES restrict women's right to choose. Can we really call that a "MAJOR VICTORY"?

Your approach may prove successful, but, if it does, it is not "change". It is politics as usual that can't see beyond the next election.

As I've posted recently, I WANT to support this administration. But, BS like "I didn't campaign on" the public option, is making it VERY difficult. I campaigned my ass off for this guy in a RED area. I argued with family members and friends who called Obama a liar and a fraud.

I feel more and more like the fool they called me.

[ThePhilosopher04]

7. For some people, it's all about politics...

and image...for others, it's about doing the correct thing, and sticking to principles. Settling for a bad bill that can be touted as something it is not, is not a principled position in my view. Ed is right on as usual.

[stopbush]

11. Ed's guaranteeing another 60 years of inaction by making

HCR a political tar baby that no sane pol will touch.

The principled position kept Teddy from making a deal on HCR with Nixon, a principled decision Teddy came to rue.

[Edweird]

14. Yeah, the time for healthcare IS now. Too bad we are getting insurance instead.

Oh well, there's always another election coming.

[kayla9170]

15. Wonder if Ed is thinking back to his Ol' GOP days....

And will join the Teabagger Left-Right Consensus of the Hamster, Norquist and others? I prefer to stay on land than to sink slowly in the ocean :).

[WeDidIt]

19. I used to love Ed

Now, I turn him off.

I've even started watching the Campbell Brown show instead of Countdown.

[NNN0LHI]

20. Oh god, didn't Campbell Brown marry that amphibian Dan Senor?

I think she did.

I am going to start watching Dirty Jobs or Animal Planet or something.

Don

[stopbush]

23. I often flip to the History Channel, but then you have to deal with the myths of Christianity

being presented as historical facts.

Sometimes it's better to read a book.

[ddeclue]

25. Elijah is the BONEHEAD. ED is right!

Kill the Bill! It is a give away to the insurance corporations and a giant screw you to the Democratic activists who worked for single payer.

[joeybee12]

28. If teh Senate's HCR were at all decent, you'd have a point...

...but it's not, it's a major step backwards, ass-backwards, in fact.