Wow- Lawrence O'Donnell on Countdown is breaking out all kinds of clips of Obama

[coti]

both supporting the public option via the same arguments those against this bill are now using and also denouncing the idea of reforming health care purely through private insurance companies, during his campaign.

It's pretty clear that when he said he didn't campaign on the public option, he lied.

[ClarkUSA]

1. Is this the Obama Outrage Meme of the Day? He never promised to enact the public option.

He spoke about what he'd like to happen on a number of matters, but that's different from making a campaign promise.
Politifact agrees with me and Pres. Obama: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=85126&mesg_id=85126

[Mojorabbit]

4. You can count me as outraged

Bad enough how this was handled and worse to lie about it.

[ClarkUSA]

11. Whatever. Pulitzer Prize winning Politifact sides with Pres. Obama.

Link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=85126&mesg_id=85126

[chimpymustgo]

32. Oh, so don't believe our lying eyes and ears? Just saw and heard him. Ttry to catch the re-run.

Wow.

[ClarkUSA]

40. I watched carefully spliced clips that didn't prove anything but that he mentioned PO occasionally.

He never ever made PO the centerpiece of his HCR plan nor did he ever say it was a deal-breaker while he was President.

[coti]

68. ....I don't think I'm the one that's spinning. nt

[ClarkUSA]

74. You claimed Ezra Klein said, "Obama lied" and that's not true. You're spinning his answer.

Now do your best to spin my answer.

[coti]

89. I said that he acknowledged Obama lied. I didn't say he said "Obama lied." More spin from you.

And, if you watch the clip, he acknowledged that Obama lied.

Of course, since you won't admit that Obama campaigned on the public option, despite evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, I wouldn't expect you to admit his acknowledgment either.

[ClarkUSA]

130. What's the difference? Talk about splitting hairs.

Oh, and Pulitzer Prize winning Politifact sides with Pres. Obama on this issue. I'm with them.

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Political Heretic]

107. The demcratic platform for 2008 includes language refering to public option in health care reform.

Go read it yourself.

[Political Heretic]

109. What does carefully spliced mean in this instance? Was there context missing?

How were they carefully spliced?

If the goal is to show that Obama spoke in support of a public component to health care reform as part of his campaign, then what more do you need to show than any or all the statements made where he says that?

I'm trying to imagine how it could be "carefully spliced" to give some other sort of impression.... they just play the statements, either he said it or he didn't. Right?

As far as saying he never said it was a deal breaker - I would just remind you that a public component to health care reform (I don't believe they started refering to it as a "public option" until after the elections, right?) was stated in the Democratic Party Platform for 2008.

Now, its true it did not say "and this is a deal breaker!" So I'm with you there. In fact I'm even with you that it was not the center piece of his message on health reform.

However, people who were interested in health reform during the campaign and went and read the party platform representing the positions of that party's nominee would have seen the inclusion of the need for a public component to health care reform - and thus I think its understandable if they are disappointed now that it was dropped.

Maybe it wasn't a "promise" but people are not crazy for expecting it - since it was spoken of and adopted as part of the party platform.

[HuckleB]

6. It's the politics we've got in this day and age.

The guy debates with himself sometimes, while speaking, and so anyone who wants to bash him will find a clip to "back up their complaint."

[ClarkUSA]

14. True.

<<The guy debates with himself sometimes, while speaking, and so anyone who wants to bash him will find a clip to "back up their complaint.">>

Thanks for the wisdom. It's also good for ratings.

[HuckleB]

16. Indeed. And ratings are the most important thing, after all! -nt-

[Motown_Johnny]

7. he said on 7/18/09 "any plan I sign must include... [laundry list]... a public option"

He was President at the time so he was not campaigning when he said it, that seems to be splitting hairs to me

[ClarkUSA]

20. Repeat: He never made a campaign promise to enact HCR with a public option.

Not sure about the veracity of your quote, but the Congress and obstructionist Republicans and Blue Dogs had something to do
with this legislation, doncha think?

[AndyA]

28. The quote is correct and it speaks for itself.

He also spoke of the necessity of a public option in the State of the Union speech.

Thanks for playing. :eyes:

[ClarkUSA]

31. Really? I have yet to see the full linked quote, which is not relevant to the OP, in any case.

:eyes:

[Motown_Johnny]

36. The quote is from his radio/web address and is on the Whitehouse web site

The fact that you are not sure about the veracity speaks volumes.


Yes, I do think that all the members of Congress had everything to do with the legislation, they wrote it. I don't hold him responsible for it.


I do hold him responsible for his own words. To me this was a promise from a President to Veto any bill that does not have a public option. Clearly he is backing away from that promise.

[ClarkUSA]

49. Still waiting for the full quote and link... I don't recall any such "promise" and I pay attention.

So does Politifact. And they disagree with the OP, too, MSM mediawhores. Check their Obameter.

<<The fact that you are not sure about the veracity speaks volumes.>>

You misunderstand me. I'm not sure about YOUR veracity.

[Motown_Johnny]

55. since you can't use Google.. here is the link to the full video

http://www.whitehouse.gov/video/Weekly-Address-Health-Care-Reform-Cannot-Wait?category=10




watching it now.. I will edit to add the exact time when he says it



Edit to add....uh oh I screwed that up<[br />



Edit to add the correct time 4:20....

[ClarkUSA]

60. So there's no actual quote or link that's in text form?

Figures.

[Motown_Johnny]

67. yes there is..., all the addresses are available in text form

are you sure you are paying attention?


and I apologize for posting the wrong time on my first attempt

[ClarkUSA]

76. Post a link to the full quote in text form, then. I have yet to see you do it.

I'll check back later.

[Forkboy]

79. Why is the video with Obama actually speaking (with subtitles even) not good enough?

[ClarkUSA]

80. I'm not going to waste my time. The burden of proof is on the person who "quoted" it.

Asking for the full quote doesn't seem like a big burden considering the poster made an attempt at the alleged quote already.

[Forkboy]

82. Chicken.

Nice edit, too. :hi:

[Motown_Johnny]

88. more like crickets.... no response at all once I put up exactly what was asked for

[ClarkUSA]

131. Um, some people have a family life over the holidays.

:eyes:

[neverforget]

93. +1

[tavalon]

113. You're not going to waste your time

You're going to waste ours. :eyes:

[Motown_Johnny]

81. here ya go... full quote in text form on Whitehouse.gov

Honestly, Google is your friend


http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Weekly-Address-President-Obama-Says-Health-Care-Reform-Cannot-Wait/




snip




That’s why any plan I sign must include an insurance exchange: a one-stop shopping marketplace where you can compare the benefits, cost and track records of a variety of plans – including a public option to increase competition and keep insurance companies honest – and choose what’s best for your family. And that’s why we’ll put an end to the worst practices of the insurance industry: no more yearly caps or lifetime caps; no more denying people care because of pre-existing conditions; and no more dropping people from a plan when they get too sick. No longer will you be without health insurance, even if you lose your job or change jobs



Happy now?

[Motown_Johnny]

95. how much later? no response since I put up exactly what you asked for

Speechless?

[tavalon]

112. Watch the damn video

Is your computer broken?

[coti]

8. That's not what he said- he said he didn't "campaign on" the public option.

He clearly campaigned on the public option.


I can see you're going to try to wiggle out of this but the facts are right there on video. Watch the show if you like. Even Ezra Klein acknowledged that Obama lied.

[ClarkUSA]

22. He didn't. He talked about HCR in any number of ways but he never made PO the centerpiece.

A few clips does not prove anything but the ability to splice film.

Ezra Klein didn't say, "Obama lied." I watched the segment and you're spinning, which is clear proof of your bias.

[tavalon]

114. That depends on what the meaning of "is" is

How Clintonian of you.

[AuntPatsy]

57. You know, I dislike this mounting president bashing threads as well

but what I dislike more is the game politicians play at the expense of the citizens of this country, your right, he didn't lie, but your wrong in that this doesn't matter, promises or not, he implied, strongly I might add with the Yes we can campaign stradegy....

I am at the point where we can no longer afford to defend that which is clearly indefensible...and yet at the same time, it is clear that regardless of how I feel about this growing cancer in the dem party I will continue to utilize my vote which I am beginning to feel comes down to the better of two evils...


Thankfully we still have many Dem's that I trust, you know what? In my own way I trust our president still to do the best he can in regards to this country and yet it seems clearer every day, he will not just be honest and let us know the real score and what we really need to focus on to win this fight of corruption that has spread like a bad case virus that resides inside the brain of our body of leaders...


Of course politifact will agree, they know the score and the truth of our government, it is run by big money and the interests of bit money shall trump the people's interest every time...the crumbs we do receive as evidence that "hey we do care" are no longer satisfying nor is it enough to keep us alive..

we as a country are fading every day...I just wish, I honestly wish one of our representatives had the guts and the courage enough to let us know the truth....I wish enough of them would ignore the bribes and be courageous enough to hold true to the oath they took when they first took on the job of being representitives of the american people..

That said...I am tired of seeing so many dem bashing threads on a democratic board....I first came here because I disliked the way the right used threats, rage and hate in order to win......what did we win?


Gay people can still not legally wed in far too many states a right mind you that should be an equal right issue for all americans regardless of their personal lives....

women are still being threatened almost daily with losing the right of choice in the importance of her own body and or health...

Church has yet to get it's ass out of our government system and it is still seemingly a requirement to be a so called christian in order to be president of this country....

our tax money is wasted and spent daily on things such as war and bonuses for the higher ups and yet we still as of yet do not have the ability to demand our tax money go to ensuring health care for all in this country...who they hell do they think they are?

billions are wasted monthly in order to take lives not save them and yet...our joke of a group of so called representatives dare to tell us that life matters and abortion should not be paid for.....our tax money...ours...when are we going to stand up and make them realize that the decisions to spend our money should be left up to us the majority of us and I have no doubt in my mind that the majority of citizens in this country would overwhelmingly vote to use our tax money to ensure health care for everyone, the majority are tired of paying premiums and put to the vote..our funds would NOT go to warring but to healing....


My rant is over..sorry...

it is not du itself that is driving me crazy...it is the knowledge of what is going on in our government that is doing it...sometimes knowledge is not power when one feels so powerless....

[coti]

64. He really did lie. Watch the beginning of tonight's Countdown. nt

[ClarkUSA]

72. Gee, you're really invested in pushing the FauxRage, aren't you? I wonder why.

Welcome to DU. Really.

[Motown_Johnny]

91. and you seem really invested in covering up the truth, I wonder why

While campaigning he answered questions from the crowd and said he supported a public option. To say that is not campaigning on the public option is splitting hairs at best and an outright lie at worst.


He did make a promise as President as I quoted in previous posts.....

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Weekly-Address-President-Obama-Says-Health-Care-Reform-Cannot-Wait/

snip



That’s why any plan I sign must include an insurance exchange: a one-stop shopping marketplace where you can compare the benefits, cost and track records of a variety of plans – including a public option to increase competition and keep insurance companies honest – and choose what’s best for your family. And that’s why we’ll put an end to the worst practices of the insurance industry: no more yearly caps or lifetime caps; no more denying people care because of pre-existing conditions; and no more dropping people from a plan when they get too sick. No longer will you be without health insurance, even if you lose your job or change jobs

[ClarkUSA]

133. The truth is that Pres. Obama got HCR passed.

To blame him for something Congress refused to pass is nothing short of petty.

"This notion I know among some on the left that somehow this bill is not everything that it should be ... I think just ignores the real human reality that this will help millions of people and end up being the most significant piece of domestic legislation at least since Medicare and maybe since Social Security," Obama told NPR's Robert Siegel and Julie Rovner.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=121783002

Bernie Sanders also speaks for me:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=92918&mesg_id=92918

[DisgustedInMN]

120. With all due respect.

"Winning" this issue on a semantics level, might give you a feel good moment here, but come the midterms, there's going to be a heavy price to be paid for it.

And if you think that makes the disheartened among us happy, you're way off base.

I expected better from Obama. Sorry if that upsets you.

[AuntPatsy]

90. To be honest I question your reasoning for this thread...and honestly

if your just here to cause trouble you really are a fool....


what I hope people can realize that there is us..and there is them...and you and I are us...

But lie?


No, he did not lie'

Mccain did the other day when he stated in front of the court of legality in where our representatives debate issues , many many republicans have outright lied these past ten years and the media and their base have ignored these lies and not called them on it..

they have proven themselves just as responsible for the state of this country as the Republicans and to be honest. I am not sure I care to work along side them, they have alot of explaining to do, a lot of apologies to make and a lot of restitution to administer before I personal would give them the time of day...


Please don't LIE and say he lied..

that makes you a liar..and that makes you unbelievable..

[nofurylike]

110. exactly. well said, ClarkUSA. thank you. nt

[Political Heretic]

111. Democratic Party Platform of 2008, and I quote:

Covering All Americans and Providing Real Choices of Affordable Health Insurance Options.

Families and individuals should have the option of keeping the coverage they have or choosing from a wide array of health insurance plans, including many private health insurance options and a public plan. Coverage should be made affordable for all Americans with subsidies provided through tax credits and other means.

http://www.democrats.org/a/party/platform.html

[Donnachaidh]

119. how Rovian! Now it's *enact* that is the key to understanding the LIE

Jeez -- you folks roll out the Koolaid really early at party headquarters. :eyes:

[msongs]

2. "vote for me and I'll set you free" - lol nt

[midnight]

3. Oops..... That's alright. He gave so many speeches, he probably forgot...

The main thing is to get us a friendly user bill that helps those who need access to medical treatment that is affordable.... Come on Mr. President I know you can do this...

[FrenchieCat]

5. Who gives a shit. This ain't a fucking election!

O'Donnel is famous for helping fuck up the Clinton health Care Plan.


How many times did he advance the meme, "The Public Option is dead?"
before any vote had ever been cast?

Guess here he goes again.

[HuckleB]

12. Some of us like the fact that Obama discusses things openly.

If you do that, you're going to debate against yourself, trying to figure various items out. New evidence and new realities will come to the fore. This need for everything to be perfect and for people to never change anything is absolutely inhuman.

[coti]

18. That's one thing, but that's not what he did. He tried to play it like we had

just made up our expectations of him out of whole cloth, like he'd never said anything like that.

He was campaigning on a government health insurance plan before the Iowa caucus. He did it on video. Ezra Klein says his campaign staff were talking to him about it all the time, in fact.

[HuckleB]

24. I'm not saying that's not true.

I'm simply saying that we live in a world where we become obsessive over every little soundbite, while trying to pretend that human beings should be perfect and always consistent in what they say. That's simply not possible. Further, Obama should not have made the statement he did, saying that he didn't campaign on the matter. It was stupid to do so. At the same time, the environment makes such lies more likely from any and all politicians. We obsess so much on "consistency," that we fail to remember that things are consistently in flow and in change. We want the security of constancy in a world of change, and no politician is going to live up to that.

[still_one]

19. The Obama administration to this approach because of the disaster with the Clinton health

care plan. Yes, it can be argued that they went much to far the other way compared to the Clinton plan, but I believe they wanted to insure it got through

Incidently, I have seen emails sent out from insurance companies asking their employees to oppose this plan

[kayla9170]

29. How many times did O' Donnell Claim that the Obama H.C. Bill....

Would not make it this far? On Countdown, trust me, all year. I wish I have the links but he stated on many occasions this bill would die before it ever made it to Obama's desk.

[kiva]

85. You're right, it ain't a fucking election.

Just remember that in three years when you begin whinging about why the liberals ain't supporting Obama....oh, right, it will all be the media's fault, and the left, and the Obama haters, and everybody except the guy who lied and his supports who are insulting people.

[FrenchieCat]

108. If you're hoping for a Republican victory.....

well, that's just more than fucked up.
How do you think we got here,
where folks were expecting this guy to clean it up
in one fucking sweeping Swoop!

If the Liberals ain't supporting Obama,
then far as I'm concerned, they are supporting Republicans.
So yeah...that would be on them. Doh!

[still_one]

9. Well, maybe larry can run against him in 2012, it should be no problem, since everyone thinks

this is a slam dunk

I would like to remind people that the country is not as progressive as many might want to believe

[bvar22]

75. It DID die.

It DIED in the Senate.
The plan that came out of the Senate does NOT contain a Public Option.
The plan Obama camapigned on HAD a Public Option.

[still_one]

86. It is the start, and can be changed later, but that's OK, let's say it is nothing and indirectly

become part of the commercials of the right wing so we can insure that the right wing propaganda machine not only flourishes, but makes republicans a permanent majority, then lets see what happens with healthcare

[bvar22]

92. Passing this Health "Care" Bill WILL do that.

"makes republicans a permanent majority"

Only 33% of ALL Americans support Mandates without a Public Option.
Most Americans are going to be shocked when they open their NEW Health Care Package and find a BIG Bill from the For Profit Health Insurance Industry.
Not to mention the 45 Million that are NOW going to be required to BUY what in reality are worthless policies even WITH a partial subsidy.
THEY WILL blame the Democrats...and rightly so.

The Senate Democrats GAVE the Republicans EVERYTHING they wanted without requiring them to pay a political price.
The Democrats have done the impossible.
They have revived a dying Party and given them CREDIBILITY for OPPOSING this bill.

[rsmith6621]

10. He Also Said

....He wouldn't put an insurance bureaucrat between you and I and that is what this HRC bill is all about...

[HuckleB]

15. Huh?

There's an insurance bureaucrat between you and I?

:shrug:

[tavalon]

116. I think it was supposed to be between you and your doctor

[RedRubberBall]

13. Obama is playing Chess while... N/T

n/t

[rateyes]

17. He should give up Chess, and start playing "Clue"...

as in, he should get one.

[FrenchieCat]

43. Pretty soon, you'll be playing "Sorry"......

when you realize how wrong you've been....
but I guess you'll probably never see it,
and if you do, you certainly won't admit it.

[rateyes]

50. I'll be more than happy to admit I'm wrong when proven so.

I pray that I'm wrong.

Nothing, so far, though makes me think I am.

[Forkboy]

51. Most of us are just trying to survive "Life".

[Lorien]

102. Why? What has anyione here gotten wrong?

Show us some proof that Obama's plan will make health care more affordable and accessible to all of us.

[tavalon]

117. I know you weren't talking to me but it's a public board

If I am wrong and this is the crack in the door that leads to universal health CARE, I will be thrilled and I will admit it a thousand times. I want universal health care for each and every one of my patients and my fellow Americans. What I don't want is fat cat bureaucrats at UHC, Premera, Blue Cross etc. collecting money hand over fist from my patients and my fellow Americans for not much of any care at all. This is a horribly flawed bill that is likely to be a bit more mangled when it finishes reconciliation with the House version. I want, to the very depths of my soul to be wrong on this.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

128. We'll all be playing sorry in 2012.

[laughingliberal]

21. Say what you will, he did campaign on it and denying it was nuts.

But they are gonna keep on with this idea that the left doesn't exist and the campaign contributions from the industry will save them. Perhaps they're correct. But don't expect me to participate in reality switch. Would have preferred it but think it's still a good bill. Okay, we disagree. But, I never campaigned on it? Fail, my memory has not totally failed me.

[griffi94]

45. well the thrust of a lot of arguments

seems to be that he didn't campaign on a public option so technically he didn't lie.
see when he said any bill he signed would have to include a public option
he had already been elected so he was no longer campaigning. it's still an untruth but now it's completely different.

now he did campaign against mandates and this senate bill does in fact have mandates so i'm not sure what the spin will be. so far i've seen "well hillary was for mandates" but, to my mind at least, what someone else was for or against doesn't really have any bearing on whether or not telling a lie actually constitutes lying.

in this case i'm pretty sure that telling a lie doesn't in fact constitue lying and i'm sure at least one of the presidents more rigorous supporters will be along shortly to explain it all.

:hi:

[laughingliberal]

61. oh, well, when you put it that way. lol nt

[Blasphemer]

53. Yep, a very bad call. Changing one's position is not inherently a bad thing

His predecessor stubbornly clung to bad decisions to the detriment of both country and party. If he wanted to explain why he changed his opinions on the PO and on mandates, it would have been very easy for him to do so. He has many platforms available to him. He flat out lied instead. That's pretty insulting.

[montanacowboy]

23. Larry calls him out

He damn well did campaign on it, stupid stupid stupid now trying to deny it

It's pathetic

[kstewart33]

27. Yeah, and I'm sure Larry's feeling very good about himself.

What a jerk.

[NYC_SKP]

37. Would Larry even bring it up in alive interview with Obama?

Nope, I don't think he would.

Ratings, drama, MSM.

[tblue]

25. I guess I'm over what he promised because

it won't change anything. Nothing.

From Rick Warren to John Yoo, I've gotten to where I don't expect anything anymore. When I do, I'm disapointed anyway. I might be pleasantly surprised sometimes, but I'm done hoping, let alone expecting, the right choices will be made.

No more:
"I really hope he goes after (fill in blank). Oh, he's not? Dang!"

[kstewart33]

26. Geez, this is getting ridiculous.

All the Obama bashing and to what end?

What do any of you expect to accomplish with this?

And KO - geez, this is sick.

How will this help your and/or the Dem cause?

Want to kill the bill?

Why? Because waaaahhhhh, you didn't get what you want?

Even half a loaf isn't good enough?

Geez, the guy gets the first meaningful HC reform on the verge of passing in this last CENTURY and everybody's whining about it.

Get a grip, get a life, and get some perspective.

[HuckleB]

30. It seems like many never got out of the mode of bashing from the Bush years.

Constructive debate, discussion and criticism among people who are generally trying to move in the same direction shouldn't devolve into this.

[tblue]

66. It probably did make some of us highly sensitized/hyper-vigilant.

But it doesn't make us wrong.

[HuckleB]

78. It doesn't make anyone right, either.

[tavalon]

118. Actually, the trends on DU have more often been prescient and right

And DUers are really, really angry right now because they've been lied to and are now being told to sit down and shut up for the good of the party.

[coti]

34. It's accountability.

We want an HCR bill that will at least start us down the right path to getting everyone covered while also controlling costs, which is what Obama campaigned on. We said he campaigned on the public option and he responded with the lie that he did not.

He doesn't want to address HCR in a straightforward manner but we're going to do our best to make sure that he does.

[HuckleB]

39. You might want accountability, but this is only about entertainment and ratings.

[Lorien]

104. Yeah, right. Our LIVES are only about "entertainment and ratings"

:grr:

enough with the blind fawning fanboy routine. Catch up to reality. We've been SCREWED.

[kstewart33]

99. I'm sorry but I don't understand this.

This bill, flawed as it is, is a beginning. And given the huge opposition that faced Clinton's effort and past efforts in a time when the Congress was no way near the polarized state that it is in today, can't we all agree that this bill is at least a first step toward your goal? Our goal?

Obama isn't a god. You know what I like most about him? He's faced problems head-on - yes, he has. We might not like all of his decisions, but he has not shied from the terrible problems that we face.

I don't know how he keeps his sanity when everyone else in Congress is losing theirs.

[coti]

100. No. It's as if you're not even listening.

As many have said on DU, over and over, it's a step backward. It's going to make things worse by further entrenching the private insurance industry in our healthcare system. It's not a "good start" at all. It not only misses the point but is going to make it even more difficult to do what needs to be done in the future.

[kstewart33]

125. So what is your alternative?

Instead of bashing the bill, what do you propose to fix this problem?

A public option? That is ludicrous. There is no way that will pass Congress even with our large majorities. Our margins will shrink after Nov 2010. So that alternative is out.

So what do your propose - not fantasy but realistically offer?

Nothing. All I have read is pie-in-the-sky insistence on pursuing the fantasy.

At least something is getting done. At least over 30 million people will get insurance.

I don't get your beef. It seems as if DUers would rather rant than actually addressing what to do about this problem.

[ClarkUSA]

38. Bitter is as bitter does.

Thank you.

Failers abound among the loud subset who never liked Pres. Obama in the first place and still can't
get over his winning it all last year.

[KakistocracyHater]

101. Replace "Pres. Obama" with "Pres. Bush" & look what we have here=too much

the same. You=follower, do not insult those who dare to actually critically think, no matter what letter is next to whoever is sitting in the White House; it is a healthy habit, just because it is uncomfortable for you doesn't make it unpatriotic. So long as it's not mindless rebellion, & this isn't-this is upset because the President veered away from his own stated goals.

[NYC_SKP]

33. And the crowd goes CRAZY! Woo Hoo, gotcha mr. president. How very Jr. High.

Lower, actually.

This kind of behavior should be addressed in or before fourth grade.

:eyes:

[kayla9170]

44. K & R Your Reply

:)

[NYC_SKP]

59. well,

thank you kindly!

:fistbump:

[Bluenorthwest]

84. Yeah because it is so funny when liars ride a high horse and

judge others claiming to be huge Christians.
The character of those who stand against equality on so called religious or moral grounds is about as dead serious a subject as it gets. As a Christian man of his word, he fails, and fails in service to his own ego, and yet he will cite his religion against his neighbor's rights. It is he who claims that God is in the mix. Yet he fails to come anywhere near the rules of truthful speech and appearance of truthful speech that are basic to that religion and that God.
But yeah, all of that is kid's stuff.

[neverforget]

94. They're only words right? They have no meaning? Then why did he say

what he said?

[Blue_In_AK]

35. He would have garnered much more support

if he had said something like, "This bill doesn't contain some provisions that I campaigned on that I sincerely wanted, but unfortunately this is the best we can do given the current makeup of the Senate. We will move forward and attempt to modify this imperfect bill in the future."

[HuckleB]

41. I doubt it.

I really doubt it.

[Blue_In_AK]

52. You doubt what?

That he would have garnered more support? I can't speak for everybody, but I myself would have preferred that instead of him going on TV crowing about what a great bill it is. I prefer honesty in my politicians (not that I ever get much).

[HuckleB]

56. Obama has apologized for some mistakes, unlike other presidents.

And he got no support for those behaviors, from what I could see. So, I just don't see it.

And, sorry, but I'm not looking for examples. I'm too tired, and I really don't care if I'm not believed, or whatever.

[EFerrari]

65. He apologized for saying the Cambridge police acted stupidly

after the copy unions got up in his face.

[Blue_In_AK]

69. And I appreciate that he's done that.

I just think he's being a bit disingenuous and maybe a little defensive about the wonderfulness of this health care bill. It may be true that it's the best we can get at this point, but he shouldn't try to make it sound like it's something great and he shouldn't say that he didn't campaign on a concept (a public option) that he clearly did.

Just be honest.

[HuckleB]

70. I think he's being defensive on the point about the public option and the campaign.

And maybe he is defensive about the bill, too. But he might have some reason to be defensive about that, IMO.

[Blasphemer]

54. At the very least... more respect... nt

[EFerrari]

63. Yep.

[Karmadillo]

42. BREAKING!! DC Firefighters Rushing to the White House!! Someone's Pants are on Fire!!

nt

[timeforpeace]

129. +1

[burning rain]

46. O'Donnell characterized the deceitfulness of the president's statement well when he said,...

"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'campaign' is." Ouch! O'Donnell was his usual smart, thorough, remorseless self in that segment (entitled "Yes He Did"). A bit later he referred to Griffith Parker, er, I mean Parker Griffith now enjoying "one of the fringe benefits of being a Republican: being booked on Fox News." I like how matter-of-fact and unapologetically rational O'Donnell is. He speaks a lot of truths others don't out of a sentimental, excessive devotion to politeness.

[Blasphemer]

47. Yes, very clear... always has been

Interesting reactions in this thread. First it was, "no he didn't", "you have proof that he did" and now it's "big deal", "get over it".. it is quite amusing.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HuckleB]

58. Nah, you probably just hate certain liars.

[Major Hogwash]

62. Yeah, I saw this, Obama really sold us out this time.

The new boss, same as the old boss.

Nothing ever changes in Washington - except when you dash the hopes and dreams of millions of Dem voters.

[HuckleB]

71. What world are you living in?

Do you remember, uh, last year?

[Lorien]

105. Yes, in fact, we do. Obama thinks we don't, obviously:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/ns/msnbc_tv-countdown_with_keith_olbermann#34580329

[Major Hogwash]

106. One with a cable tv.

The problem is, I remember a lot of shit Obama said last year.
I hung on, listening to him, in almost every speech as if somehow he was going to right things in this country.

After living under 8 years of Bush's regime, this is not what I expected - at all.
It was one thing for Bush to lie, because that is what Republicans do, that is their trademark.
But, after surviving 8 years of Bush, it is time to make things right again in America.

For Obama to promise so much, and deliver so little, and then make statements like "I never campaigned on that", has made fools of anyone who gave him $10 to run for the White House.

John Yoo is still a free man.
And he is the main author of the torture memos.
But Obama doesn't want him held responsible for that.
He told the court, naw forget it, let it go, doesn't matter now.

Then, there are the 3 horrendous provisions of the Patriot Act that Obama wants renewed.

Those are 2 huge problems for a liberal to have to swallow with a Democrat sitting in the White House.
So, I'm not going to swallow them.

There is no way that "stay the course" works for me.
I put up with that fucking shit from Bush, I won't tolerate it coming from Obama.

[Bluenorthwest]

73. Only thing worse than a liar is a self congratulatory liar

who also takes the holier than thou "I'm a Christian" stance when he simply can not bear the idea of equal civil rights for all.

[bvar22]

77. Boy, Jon Stewart is REALLY going to have fun with this one.

His staff has access to lots of video.
It won't be pretty for Obama.

[Motown_Johnny]

87. I think he is on break for Christmas and maybe New Year's too

this will be old news by the time he gets back

[chill_wind]

96. He'll probably work it in between now and the SOTU.

I'd bank on it.

[merkins]

97. very devastating

I guess Joe Wilson was on to something after all

[tonysam]

98. I just watched the video on MSNBC's site,

and there is no question he lied like a rug about the public option.

link

Obama deserves every bit of criticism he is getting over this.

[Lorien]

103. Yep. He's a bold faced liar

disgusting. It was bad enough that Bush screwed us for eight long years. This kind of betrayal feels even worse.

[TornadoTN]

115. What's even more disgusting is that people are actually defending this travesty

I guess after 8 years of being screwed by Bush, people are willing to give anything with a (D) beside it's name a free pass and deem everything they do as being wonderful.


Not me. I'm sick of this and my eyes are finally opened to our two party system. I feel like a fool for putting so much time, money, and effort into 2008.

[tonysam]

121. The kicker is he didn't have to lie.

He could have told the WP is that yes, he campaigned on the public option, but that political reality meant it couldn't pass. But Obama didn't do that. He denied ever campaigning on it, and it was a blatant LIE.

There is no excuse for this. None.

[GreenTea]

122. Lawrence O'Donnell is a wonderful progressive replacement while Keith Olbermann is away!!

I don't think Keith would have it any other way....David Schuster is also very, very good.

[tonysam]

123. delete

duplicate post

[tonysam]

124. Now the Obama apologists are parsing words

They are saying he talked about a "public plan" not a "public option" as if there is a fucking dime's worth of difference.

It's the same thing, people.

[bridgit]

126. republican strategists are grinning wider and laughing their creepy little villain laughs...

all over again cause they know politics too. They know how to win elections: on a pocket full of lies & promises. They knew Obama was going to win this one on the same pocket full of lies & promises. They knew what Obama was doing, so did Team Obama. They all knew PO was the contemporary version of "a chicken in every pot" "a thousand points of light" "this isn't about oil" and "there's a sucker born every minute". And they knew all they had to do was stand there and start spitting on Dems and their ham-strung POTUS walking/waving past as all their corporate friends & clients pushed their own legislation through

No one's hands in DC are clean at this level of betrayal. They knew Obama & Immanuel were the least of their problems and uninsured Americans even less

The price for Obama, Immanuel and Axlerod's inclusion into that most exclusive country club is that they all appear as liars snaking their way into the dog-run of personal/family aggrandizements at the expense and detriment of 10's upon 10's of millions of Americans, so not a problem? Not if you're on the right end of that bargain

As POTUS, however, Obama gets the kicker. He gets to be the hopefully-someday-thought-somehow-innocent South-side ChiTown victim of himself, just another pol and his flowery tongue dipped in flapping fluttering naivete & cynicism, but that's fine...

Cause as a young man with two memoir already churning out residuals and so likely another in the drawer; he'll be able to write another three by the time most people understand what happened

[BbeltAtheist]

127. Obama is a politician

Baby steps people... baby steps. Evidently the electorate isn't quite ready for a true public option let alone real UHC. All politicians have to compromise at some point because they don't work in a vacuum.

Pragmatism can be ugly sometimes, but I am happy that something is being done in the right direction at least.

Baby steps.

[cherokeeprogressive]

132. Say it with me: Signing Ceremony... Signing Ceremony... Signing Ceremony...

The only important thing to President Obama and a large majority of DU'ers is... the... Signing Ceremony.

Just Win Baby.

[Liberation Angel]

134. O'Donnel says in the first 30 seconds that Obama DID NOT LIE!

then he says he did lie after saying he didn't lie.

WATCH the first 30 seconds or so.

Obama NOWHERE uses the term "Public option"

Obama DID NOT LIE!

I cannot believe how many naive and gullible people are falling for this right wing tripe.

[Goldstein1984]

135. I watched the videos, I've read the transcripts, and it's clear to me.

Hairsplitting aside, he clearly gave the impression a public option was a goal.

[Echo In Light]

136. Ironically GE realizes the potential of reaching the liberal/left demographic

[truedelphi]

137. The clip that was censored was the clip of

The new wing in the WH - designed to keep safe the President's ever enlargening nose!