About a day ago, I started a thread titled "God I hate this country

[OffWithTheirHeads]

It was about my feelings about someone coming to my door asking for food and/or water. A day later, I checked it and it had made it to the top of the greatest page which, frankly, shocked me. About 80% of the responses were positive and I thank you all for those thoughts, but about 20% of the respondents were in the vein of "If you hate this country, get the fuck out". I would like to address the 20%.

When I said that "I hate this country" I was not referring to the land. I spent many years quitting my job and backpacking in the back country of Yosemite and I'm here to tell you, we have some of the most spectacular landscape in the world.

A number of people told me that I should be grateful that I didn't live in Darfur, or Somalia, or the ghettos of India as conditions in those countries paled in comparison to our poverty. Yes, yes they do but I don't live in those places. I live in what is constantly described as "the richest country in the world" The country that has the "best medical care available on the planet", and on and on. I mean, are we supposed to compare our country, the richest country in the world to Darfur? Is that the best we can come up with?

One poster posted pictures of ghettos in impoverished nations to make his point. If I have the time next week, I will post pictures of the homeless encampments on the Guadalupe river running through the heart of Silicon Valley, in one of the richest parts of this richest nation. They look the same.

One poster said he worked in a soup kitchen and almost everyone he served was a vet. SOMETHING IS SERIOUSLY WRONG WHEN WE CAN SEND OUR KIDS OFF TO FIGHT, KILL PEOPLE AND DIE FOR OUR COUNTRY AND NOT BE ABLE TO PROVIDE THEM WITH JOBS IF THEY ARE LUCKY ENOUGH TO MAKE IT BACK!

Something is also seriously wrong when executives at health insurance companies can earn (I use the term earn loosely) a million dollars a day denying people health care.

I don't hate our country, the statement, by itself has no meaning. I hate what we are allowing ourselves to become. A nation that thinks the end result of playing Monopoly is a good thing.

[Subdivisions]

1. You don't owe anyone any apologies. n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

106. +1. nt

[MissDeeds]

109. +2

Man's inhumanity to man is disgraceful, especially in a country such as this.

[SharonAnn]

132. But we should use the word "paid" instead of "earned" No one "earns" these amounts of $$$.

[AllentownJake]

2. I hate the culture

I don't hate the people, the government, or even the business. Our culture encourages people to do the wrong things.

I do hate when people do things to perpetuate that culture, which is why my head exploded when I saw the President deny he campaigned on something he campaigned on.

At our foundation, in 2009 our culture is based on lying to each other and ignoring reality. Until that changes, we are fucked.

[phasma ex machina]

13. +1 It's nearly impossible for me to relate to alleged contemporary American culture

promulgated by M$M moguls such as master Machiavellian manipulator Murdoch, Sumner Redstone, Jeffrey R. Immelt, and other virtual Peers of the Realm. Those megalomaniacs and their minions live in a different universe from me.

Thank G-d for the 'net. It enables me to interact with relatively normal people.

[bluescribbler]

103. You have a pretty loose definition of the word, "normal"

If you think netizens are normal people.

[phasma ex machina]

118. Everybody exihibits their own quirks; ergo my use of a qualified "relatively" normal.

(Whatever the hell that means.)
:rofl:

That qualifier ultimately gives me enough legalistic "wiggle room" to disavow kooks, trolls, cyber bullies, and other unbalanced netizens.
:rofl: :rofl:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

26. I do too

It feels so good to be in Europe...or even Japan.

Coming back here, the U.S. looks rundown and feels a bit crazy.

[krabigirl]

119. same here

[laughingliberal]

3. I regret I only have one rec to give for this post nt

[Ignis]

91. Here, I'll chip in.

:kick:

[NYC_SKP]

4. I'm sure some many didn't even read your OP.

I was one of the first to respond with the observation that with people like you and your wife, our country is a great country.

However, our country does have serious fundamental problems, problems with it's soul, our collective soul.

Money and possessions are at the top of young people's list of interests, older people too.

We turn the other way if faced with conditions elsewhere.

In any case, Happy Holidays.

The dream lives on, the work never ends.

:toast:

[OffWithTheirHeads]

21. and a blessid winter solstice ro you

[Quantess]

5. There is a good percentage of DUers who only read the title of a thread

and post a reply, based solely on their reading comprehension of the title.

Sad but true.

[wolfgangmo]

76. re: there is a good percentage of DU's who only read the title.

If that is about 20% (see OP) then I daresay that our percentage is MUUUUUUUUUCH lower than the general population. I'm think here about my neighbors and inlaws who seem to suck at the tit of el Limpballs with frightening regularity and believe, somehow, that they are getting news rather than opinion.

[mmonk]

6. I understand completely.

I was at an intersection across from Macy's in my city today and I had American Idiot by Green Day playing on my car stereo system. It was how I was feeling about our situation as well. No explanations needed.

[StarfarerBill]

7. I knew what you were talking about, and agreed with you 110%.

And I agree with what you've written here every bit as much.

As for the haters...well, they filter everything through their ignorance, and everything comes out the same way. Hopefully, they'll eventually become enlightened and realize that you were right all the time.

Happy Holidays, my friend, and keep those sharp, passionate rants coming! :)

[crazyjoe]

8. "I spent many years quitting my job and backpacking

in the back country of Yosemite"

well, that's interesting. How many years did it take exactly to quit your job?

[roguevalley]

16. if that isn't meant with humor, how many nanoseconds did it take

you to concoct such a lame question?

[OffWithTheirHeads]

22. Are you just a complete idiot? That was 30 years ago.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

24. You are not real smart are you joe?

That was 40 tears ago. Not that you would understand.

[Zywiec]

9. Hating the US will always get you to the greatest page here n/t

[EFerrari]

15. Thank you for representing that 20%.

[carolinayellowdog]

10. Thanks for the revision

While in sympathy with your remarks, I was aghast at the title and its being the top-rated post yesterday because of how this could be used against progressives. Countries don't deserve to be hated; neither do peoples. Countries and peoples are victims of dysfunctional political and economic systems, and that's where your justifiable anguish can be focused productively. Our ugly political and economic systems do deserve the condemnation you misdirected at our beautiful country.

[EFerrari]

17. A country is an abstraction that has no awareness of being hated or loved.

[liberation]

138. Indeed...

... a country is just an land mass where some people decided to settle and draw some arbitrary borders.

The fact that the OP has to write a post explaining himself leads me to believe that this country is beyond salvation, and we will need the same medicine everyone else on earth has had to taste when nature/fate/whatever decides to put people, who are too full of themselves, in their proper place.

I fail to see why people in this place feel the need to excuse their words, justify their perfectly reasonable opinions because of whatever the conservatives may think of us progressives. I can't for the life of me fathom why I should walk on eggshells, lest we "offend" the same people who want nothing but destruction, death, and oppression in order to keep whatever unfair social order that only benefits the very few while requesting the uttermost sacrifices from the many.


This place is f*cked, period. We can spent trillions dropping bombs on countries whose people have done absolutely NOTHING, while we deny the poor and sick in ours the most basic of human decency and compassion. We love to claim ours to be the most Christian and "compassionate" nation on earth, while we have the largest per-capita incarceration rate, and we can't even afford a cohesive fair economy which does not involve the destruction of our environment and our future.

I am frankly dreaming of a day in which most people stop giving a sh*t about borders and jeopardize their lives giving their allegiance to nations, especially like ours, where the term "allegiance" seems to be an one-way street: we give our blood, sweat, and tears.... and the filthy rich don't even say "thank you" while laughing all the way to the bank. Nations are the original "divide and conquer" BS, ever notice how the powerful and rich can travel nillie willie all through the world, as if borders didn't matter to them?


Enough is enough... and to the OP: You have absolutely nothing to apologize for. As you pointed out, if the best some idiots can do is to try to manipulate your words and using 3rd world examples to squash your due criticism, then f*ck them. A society which deems necessary to waste a couple of billion dollars on a single useless "stealth" bomber, while leaving its own citizens to fend for themselves, never mind leaving half of the world to live in uttermost poverty... such society should just learn to shut the f*ck up already. Using 3rd world victims to squash any criticism by trying to divert the message is just as low as I can think any decent human could sink in intellectual dishonesty.

[gleaner]

11. You have nothing to apologize for ....

and nothing to regret. You got it dead accurate. The posters who were chiding you must have forgotten the "America, Love It or Leave It" slogan that used to be aimed at anyone who questioned or dissented during the Viet Nam war and on other issues. If you love something you don't let it simply proceed on a course which will surely destroy it without speaking up to try to get it to change course.

The real enemies of this country seem to be governing it, and are on both sides of the political spectrum. The real enemies of this country don't say a word while people die for lack of ability to get medical care or housing or a job or even enough to eat. They sit in silence or attack those who try to change life in the US for the better. We need the criticism. We need the dissent. We need to understand that things have to change before we go so far down the road that we are going that there is no way to get back.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

14. Thnk you and yup, pretty much. If we don't fix it, who will?

[gleaner]

44. You're welcome ...

If we don't fix it no one will. No one cares enough, seemingly.

[Mira]

66. You said that beautifully. Thanks!

[Djarun]

137. To be sure

Don't forget to "text" that to the next generation.

[Mira]

12. I think you helped open a lot of eyes, and your post was valid and important,

extremely topical at Christmas time which after all is the time for giving and being charitable.

We need to carry it into the New Year, and all be more kind and helpful, the poor will always be with us.

The predictable solution of the 20 percent, to the despair you express, (and isn't it interesting they collectively have only one idea, which is to encourage you to leave) is boring and deja vu.

You can look them in the eye, and tell them, "I know what you are about to say about that I should leave the country".
"Surprise me, skip that one, and go to plan B."

Ask me why I know. As a naturalized citizen, what they tell me is :"
Why don't you go back...."

Recommended

[Djarun]

139. Why don't you go back?...

When I hear that line or "just leave if you don't like it here", all I can say to them is that I am part Native American and they have no right to even ask me to leave....if anyone should go back to where they "come" from it is not me...

[LostInAnomie]

18. That is just one of those internet forum things.

You can't start a thread with an inflammatory title and expect the average internet forum reader to actually read a long post. That is especially true when there is a shit storm going on all over the forum.

[Joe the Liberal]

19. What gets on my nerves is the whole attitude of.....

"you should be grateful that you don't live in Darfur or Somalia or other such impoverished areas" which I AM grateful for but that same logic could be applied to anyone living anywhere. A person living in fascist, authoritarian country would be told "Be grateful you live here where it's safe and not in ________ (fill in the blank with worse off country)".

Or a person actually living in third world country could still be better off living there than in a lot of other places and still be told "be grateful you live here, I know it sucks but it's better off than _______ (fill in blank with worse off place". The point is that there will always be worse off places to live in so that whole attitude of being grateful for living here is just flawed all around. You can say that about anyone living anywhere, the people who use this logic and have this attitude just don't have very high standards imo.

I'm sure there are tons of people who live in other first world industrialized countries throughout the world who say "Be grateful you don't live in the US, you got it much better here". Obviously the US looks like paradise when you compare it to third world hell holes but compare it to other first world industrialized nations and you'll find out that we are not that great and actually lacking in A LOT of areas.

[IsItJustMe]

68. Bingo!!! You got it. I never liked those lame superficial arguements either. Everything in life

is realitive.

If I was dying of some disease and had no insurance, I would sure the hell rather be living in Canada.

If I could not stand cold weather, I would sure the hell rather live in Florida rather than Alaska.

This type of shaming arguement is shallow and only used by those single dimensional folks that have very narrow vision and perspectives.

[asdjrocky]

20. I hate the capitalist system that's done so much harm to the people.

Gotta say, the best thing, for me is still the music.

[phasma ex machina]

23. "homeless encampments on the Guadalupe river running through the heart of Silicon Valley"

You could use just one of former Fannie Mae CEO Franklin Delano Raines' bonus checks to build a mansion for every family in my town living in a trailer. In one case a family of four lives in a single room CAMPING trailer with a big propane tank in front. Presumably Raines needs his hundreds of millions more than that family needs an actual home.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

27. Amazing isn't it? We could feed and house so many

on what so few consider their minimum.

[DebbieCDC]

25. Great post...and so was your original post

I read it, and IMHO only people wanting to pick a fight or wave the flag to show their "patriotism" were purposefully mischaracterizing your OP.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

28. Well, that's DU these days.

[DebbieCDC]

96. Agreed

I never thought I'd say this about DU but I'm sick of getting flamed everytime I dare to disagree with Obama.

[lunatica]

29. I got where you were coming from

And the people who tell you to love it or leave it are jingoists to some degree because their idea of patriotism is twisted around some idealized mythology that they were taught in grade school. Anyone who can't stand to listen to someone vent some anger against this country isn't very aware of what this country has been capable of doing and has done.

There's a few DUers who get angry whenever anyone says anything against this country or against Obama. They have short fuses and lash out in judgment even over quite minor things and invariably they'll attack as if you've committed treason. They won't listen to you're explanation. They're not interested.

I understand where you're coming from.

[12string]

116. Love it or leave it

I remember having a comeback for all those rednecks with their flag decals that said, "love it or Leave it",back when we were protesting Viet Nam."America, Change it or Lose it."John Prine said it best though, when he wrote,"Your Flag Decal Won't Get You Into Heaven Anymore."

[PSzymeczek]

147. Not religious, but

I'll say Amen to that!

[white_wolf]

30. I love this country

but i despise this culture of greed and capitalism that has sprung up in the past few years. I am only 20 but i remember my parents talking about how good things were under Clinton and I strongly remember how Bush destroyed that. Sorry if I got off topic but I just hate how people are starving in this country when there is so much wealth concentrated in the hands of a few powerful families.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

37. Kid, the fact that you get it is enough! Do the best you can

[Greyhound]

31. That you feel you have to explain at all to these automatons, says all that needs to be said. n/t

[donco]

32. More sequels than Rocky? nt

[Starry Messenger]

33. I didn't think it was that incendiary.

People get worked up about stuff we used to laugh at the righties about. The issues you are posting on are the things that matter. If someone has time to polish their flagpole on here I'm going to assume they are well-fed and cared for.

[mullard12ax7]

34. I just read we're all just "useful idiots"

"We" being people who are not health insurance company whores that is. How dare you or anyone else complain about million dollar a day health insurance execs when (D)s voted 58 to 40 in favor of them, LOL.

[hfojvt]

35. you are only off by a factor of 15

http://www.healthreformwatch.com/2009/05/20/health-insurance-ceos-total-compensation-in-2008/

the top paid CEO only makes 6.5% of a million dollars a day. $65,000 a day is still a lot of money, but it's a long way from a million.

Aetna insures 17.7 million people, so if the CEO gave up his entire salary they could pay an average of $1.41 per customer more than they do now. For nine months of 2009 they took in about 16 billion in premiums and paid 13.6 billion in claims, so it would seem that they do not deny everybody health care.

I hate when hyperbole is used as a reason to hate and despair.

[sabrina 1]

41. How about this math. If the top paid CEO

gave up just ten days of his income, how many people could buy health insurance with that money? FYI, using your own figures, that would be $650,000.

If he gave up one month's salary, how many homeless veterans could that money provide housing for?

And if he gave up six months of his salary, how many employees could get a raise or how many new employees could be hired? The more I think about your post, the more outraged I am about how much of the money Americans pay assuming it's for health care, goes to these greedy corporatists. The best argument for a Single Payer system where all but 3% of that money would be going to actual healthcare.

You're good at math so it should be easy to figure out.

No one suggested that that money be divided between millions of customers, but kudos for the effort to try to cover up the fact that these salaries are an outrage considering we are being constantly told there isn't enough money for health care.

Single Payer is the only way. We can't afford these non-productive people.

[hfojvt]

89. the first answer is only 90 single people or 54 families

I might note that the House version of HCR includes a 5% tax on incomes over $1 million and under that law Mr. CEO will be paying another $1.1 million in taxes and that money will be used, much of it, to subsidize health insurance for lower income people.

Damn those Democrats! Damn this country!! :sarcasm:

Aetna has 35,419 employees. So take $12,000,000 and divide it by 35,419 and you get only $338.80 or about 16 cents an hour. Or $13 every two weeks.

I might point out that that raise is less than the Obama "making work pay" tax credit which is $400 and is refundable, which means that I, and other low income workers, get it even though I don't pay income taxes.

Damn those Democrats! Damn this country! :sarcasm:

As for the money going to all those customers, presumably the money is going to pay for health care instead of to the CEO and his/her family. Well, whose health care? Divided by all the customers it doesn't go very far. Adding new customers and it doesn't go very far. Pay for health costs for 10,000 people and it's only $2300 per person which will not cover very many days in a hospital, although it would pay for outpatient knee surgery. But why should those 10,000 be favored over the other 17,690,000 customers of Aetna. And what about the 40,000,000 uninsured in this country? The CEO salaries at those companies does not even begin to cover them.

I'm not trying to cover anything up. It is just a fact of large numbers. If I get a salary that comes from 1 penny taken from every man, woman and child in this damnable country then I would be making $3,000,000 a year. A stupendous salary, but if I were to use this money to try to end poverty it would not go very far in reducing the 30,000,000 or so poor people in this damnable country. It would get each of them a shiny new dime, or if I play favorites, I could give $10 to 1% of them. It's a little bit much for one, or even ten people to make huge sacrifices.

On the other hand, a mere 5% tax can do quite a bit or, as with a DU fund drive, if 5,000 people give a mere $5 that would be a $25,000 donation to America's second harvest and a very small sacrifice by many.

[Political Heretic]

98. Wrong place.

[snooper2]

101. how dare you use numbers and facts and thoughts and stuff...

Hate 'Merica and evil companies like the rest of us!

[Enthusiast]

113. It is enough that we

are 100% correct when we call it GREED!

[pattmarty]

136. So that's STILL 2.4 billion (your figures) profit, right? It's not fucking......

..........hyperbole, it's legalized theft. When we are the only industrialized country in the world with a health system that is twice as expensive as the others with a lot less of coverage and lousier medical outcomes.

[hfojvt]

149. again, if you look at the numbers, it's not a huge theft

raging about $2.4 billion in profits, which would only be gross profit and not net profit anyway is still hyperbole. I bought this computer and the seller and manufacturer both made profits. Is that theft, just because they made a profit? Or does it only become theft when the profit is too high? Consider the business I used to be in - used books. I used to sometimes buy books at rummage sales for ten cents or a quarter (or sometimes more) depending on a price set by the seller. Then I would offer them for sale at half cover price, so a book with a cover price of $5.99 would sell for about $3. So on a $3 sale, sometimes as much as $2.90 of that would be gross profit.

My point is that even a huge mark-up does not make me a thief, because there is no coercion. The customer can choose to pay my prices or find it somewhere else and pay somebody else's prices. The second point is that there needs to be some profit in order to keep the doors open. My business never made enough gross profit to cover all my expenses, much less pay me for my time. So I basically ran it as a charity for about seven years before deciding to give up and move on. If a business does not make some profit, it generally closes its doors unless it can get the taxpayers to bail it out.

We could debate about how much profit is too much, but I am not against profit in principle. Profit is not automatically evil, not even when there seems to be lots of it.

If you look at Aetna, it made $2.4 billion in gross profit. That seems like an awful lot, but divide it by 17.7 million customers and it is less than $136 per customer. It's not gonna be a huge savings if you trim their profit by a billion or so. It's certainly not gonna cut health care costs in half. Another part of that hugh health care cost in America is due to what doctors and hospitals are charging, and insurance companies are just passing that along.

[pattmarty]

150. You are naive. I am not against capitalism, just UNREGULATED.....

.....capitalism. You stated with your book business that if someone thought your prices too high, they could go elsewhere. This bill MANDATES you buy their product or else. It has already been shown that in some states you may have only one choice for insurance. The "exchanges" may help with this IF they are set up properly AND if properly regulated. There are just too many "ifs" in this bill. My belief is that there are certain "commodities" such as education, roads & infrastructure, utilities, police/fire AND healthcare that are more efficiently and cost effectively run by government than by private entities. I also believe the reverse, that there are private entities that can run certain things better than the government. Looking at other countries and our country, it's pretty obvious that "they" do a hell of a lot better job at less cost than we do with our privately run health insurers.

[Divine Discontent]

36. nice of you to do this for those that did not appreciate your comments, sadly, most of them

doubtfully even read your post.

I know why you said what you said, it made sense to have discontent with how this country has become the cesspool it is, and the focus on materialism, damned the starving masses.

good job!

[Hekate]

38. KnR.

[Jamastiene]

39. Thank you for clarifying...This I can Rec

"I don't hate our country, the statement, by itself has no meaning. I hate what we are allowing ourselves to become."

I read the subject line of your other post and then read your post. They didn't match.

The post did not show any hatred for this country. The post itself was touching, heartfelt, compassionate and proved more love for this country than any kind of hate. The post itself, I could have recommended, but I did have a problem with the subject line.

In this OP, your subject line and post match and explain, if anything, a real passion for what this country (the people of this country) go through and what we COULD be, if only more had compassion for their fellow man.

I can Rec and heartily :kick: this post, and will.

[juno jones]

40. K&R! n/t

[Goldstein1984]

42. From title to the finish, I didn't read anything that needs an

apology. Not in your last OP, and not in this one.

I think I understand completely how you feel, because I feel the same thing. I love my country, enough to be ashamed when it does something wrong, and enough to hate what I see it becoming. I was angry during the entire Bush/Cheney Error, and I find myself becoming angry again now that I see so much of what made be angry with Bush/Cheney remains with the Obama/Biden Administration.

I agree with a post above, that capitalism is our biggest problem--it hasn't delivered what the myth of the invisible hand promised, and the way we practice capitalism is nothing but corporate welfare. Now we're making it worse my mandating that citizens become insurance company customers under penalty of the law.

By the way, I grew up backpacking in the Sierra Nevada north of Yosemite, and I cut my teeth as a botanist and entomologist in those mountains. Now I hike the Chugach Mountains in Alaska. I work as a safety and environmental engineer, and my job allows me to travel to some of the most beautiful places in the state. I get paid to do what tourists pay to do. When I was in Cordova a few weeks ago there were three sea otters playing in the harbor below my hotel balcony. I was thinking how fortunate I was, then I turned on cable news...

This is a beautiful land, and this nation had great promise, we've just gone offtrack on the route to empire.

[two-fold nature]

43. The so-called "human nature" we observe

in our time and place is a product of the social conditions of our time and place. The things you rightly loathe about America will pass as the conditions change. And change they will.

Capitalism is very obviously coming to the end of its historical run.

[Betty Karlson]

45. America: change it or lose it. N/T

[malaise]

46. Another great post

Rec.

[unhappycamper]

47. 25% of the homeless population are veterans.

25% of the prison population are veterans.
25% of rape/sexual assault victims are military women.

Statistically speaking, you stand a much better change of bad things happening to you if you're a veteran.

[Cetacea]

49. "Support The Troops". Right...

Strange how the vets that fought the wars of choice get the shoddiest treatment.

[wolfgangmo]

87. It's not strange that vets get screwed.

It is a direct result of the plans started by the Ronnie Raygun Mob. Services have been cut ever since that asshat got into office and drove the country off a cliff.

[old mark]

48. The potential of what we could have become versus what we actually have done

with all this is pretty apalling. My father and his mom emigrated from Germany soon after WWI. I read a few weeks ago that millionaires in Germany had volunteered to PAY MORE TAXES to help Germany through the tough economy because they love their country and it had been good to them.
I can't imagine anything like that here.

Our family has been pretty successful here, and pretty secure despite 2 of us serving in the military in wartime. But there are so much absolute ugliness,craziness and stupidity in this country it's hard to grasp.


mark

[Cetacea]

50. K&R

[Paper Roses]

51. Well said, thank you.

[johan helge]

52. Great post.

You think and write so well.

[shadowknows69]

53. K+R this one too.

[Ken Burch]

54. You had a right to post what you posted. The anger was valid.

Screw the shallow, right-wing jerks who didn't get it.

[whathappened]

55. 10/4 good buddy

i love this country and can't even afford to travel it , i have to look at pictures , i'm not able to work anymore , i'm stuck on a unfixed income that is being ate from the bottom up , this richest nation in the world sure is a tight ass bunch , they all got theres , but god forbid anybody esle who mite like to enjoy alittle bit of life befor were planted , fook d.c. and the horse they road in on ,

[LibDemAlways]

56. You have nothing to apologize for. If people are unwilling to read

an entire post - and yours was relatively short and to the point - that's their problem. Your post was dead on. I see more and more people standing on street corners with signs asking for a hand-out. Nearby live people in million dollar homes decorated to the hilt with Christmas lights. There is a huge gap between the haves and have-nots and government is doing nothing at all to address it.

[orbitalman]

57. K&R

[quabbin]

58. This Country

I read your original post. It was a very moving thing to read. It is also shocking that it has now come to this, people knocking on stranger's doors begging for food. Ignore all those who flamed your original post. Those of us with hearts understand your feelings about the country as it exists today. I live in a rural part of MA. I have recently witnessed friends losing their homes, businesses, and jobs. What do people do when they're on the far side of 50 and lose pretty much everything? I could see it all coming apart years ago as the slow de-industrialization of our economy began. Remember all the talk about how free trade was going to be great for our country? How sending our manufacturing jobs to cheap labor countries was going to spur job growth here? It was and is complete madness. Everything for someone starts with a decent paying job. Without that people suffer shame, loss of identity, and usually slowly sink into depression. I don't see in the near future any opportunity for decent employment for the millions victimized by "Free Trade". Our society has become increasingly coarsened and our form of capitalism ever more predatory. In my little corner of the world here in New England there is a sense of dread descending on the countryside.

[RedCloud]

59. This isn't a country. It's an EMPIRE!

Wake up folks. This knowledge will make "foreign" affairs more palatable.

[wolfgangmo]

92. It's still only the start of an empire and it's not too late to stop it.

Every empire eventually ate it's own citizens, progressively squeezing the lower classes with constant wars and regressive taxes while the ruling classes lived without thought for others.

I don't want America to die, so I will fight against this. Perhaps we need a purge.

[phasma ex machina]

125. It feels like a neo-British empire to me. nt

[icee]

60. Your original statement was right. By the time another five

years rolls around, even those with the negativity for what you wrote will either have changed or be in the process of changing their minds. We are headed off a cliff that now cannot be backtracked. You can see this everywhere. Thing about it is, on a board this large there will be a few folks that will be actually be doing okay. And because THEY are doing okay, they just naturally assume everyone else is also. The difference with me is I actually AM doing okay, but I still hate this country with a passion: What we have become. How we treat people. How we decide important issues. Our constant forced preoccupation with money. Well, time to take a few days off and participate in what may be my final Crapmas. Merry Crapmas everyone. Hark the hearal angels bing. Where the hell's the newborn king?

[zeemike]

61. Well said K&R n/t

[varelse]

62. Congrats

your rebuttal is on the greatest page too :)

K&R

[Ticonderoga]

63. Merry Christmas OWTH's

Most of us saw your diary for what it was. Damn the troublemakers..full speed ahead sir.

[defendandprotect]

64. Of course, most of us understood what you meant . . .

and unfortunately something has been wrong since the first invasion of this

continent by Columbus and the undermining and co-option of the Native American.

Something was wrong with slavery and our Founders compromising with it.

Something was wrong with Papal Bulls encouraging the enslavement or death of

these peoples.

Something has always been wrong --

And those who make things wrong use violence, assassination, intimidation, threats,

blackmail, stolen elections, wars to get what they want.

That is the only way that the right can rise and keep hold of power.

Many of our citizens are willing to serve them --

Religion continues to be a primary tool in their assault on citizens and nations.

When it no longer exists they will reinvent it --

GOP gave start up funding in the 1980's to the Christian Coalition --

Scaife financed Dobson's organization -- other wealthy Repugs financed Bauer's organization.

It's all as fake as their "teabaggers."


Capitalism is a ridiculous "King-of-the-Hill" system intended to move a nation's wealth

and resources from the many to the few. Unregulated capitalism is merely organized crime.

As long as our nation operates under this system, we will have corporate-fascism and

corporate control of our government and elected officials.


US/CIA also created the Taliban/Al Qaeda thru ISI-Pakistan and used it to "bait" the Russians

into Afghanistan in "hopes of giving them a Vietnam type experience."

FURTHER, US/CIA also created and printed the violent text books in order to move a VIOLENT

version of Islam into the Middle East.

I'll attach more info on this should be interested to read more about this --



-------------------------------

Requoted from my Journal --

FIRST PART OF THIS DEALS WITH HOW US/CIA CREATED TALIBAN AND AL QAEDA . . .
TO BAIT RUSSIANS INTO AFGHANISTAN . . .!!!


SECOND PART DEALS WITH THE TEXTBOOKS --




The CIA's Intervention in Afghanistan
Interview with Zbigniew Brzezinski,
President Jimmy Carter's National Security Adviser

Le Nouvel Observateur, Paris, 15-21 January 1998

Question: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs <"From the Shadows">, that American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet intervention. In this period you were the national security adviser to President Carter. You therefore played a role in this affair. Is that correct?

Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.

Q: Despite this risk, you were an advocate of this covert action. But perhaps you yourself desired this Soviet entry into war and looked to provoke it?

B: It isn't quite that. We didn't push the Russians to intervene, but we knowingly increased the probability that they would.

Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn't believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don't regret anything today?

Q: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter. We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.

Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic fundamentalism, having given arms and advice to future terrorists?

Q: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?

http://www.takeoverworld.info/brzezinski_i... ...


---------------------------------------------------

SECOND PART --


The US spent $100's of millions shooting down Soviet helicopters yet didn't spend a penny helping Afghanis rebuild their infrastructure and institutions.

They also spent millions producing jihad preaching, fundamentalist textbooks and shipping them off to Afghanistan. These were the same text books the Western media discussed in shocked tones and told their audiences were used by fundamentalist teachers to brainwash their charges and to inculcate in young Afghanis a jihad mindset, hatred of foreigners and non-Muslims etc.


Have you heard about the Afghan Jihad schoolbook scandal?

Or perhaps I should say, "Have you heard about the Afghan Jihad schoolbook scandal that's waiting to happen?"

Because it has been almost unreported in the Western media that the US government shipped, and continues to ship, millions of Islamist textbooks into Afghanistan.

Only one English-speaking newspaper we could find has investigated this issue: the Washington Post. The story appeared March 23rd.

Washington Post investigators report that during the past twenty years the US has spent millions of dollars producing fanatical schoolbooks, which were then distributed in Afghanistan.

"The primers, which were filled with talk of jihad and featured drawings of guns, bullets, soldiers and mines, have served since then as the Afghan school system's core curriculum. Even the Taliban used the American-produced books..." -- Washington Post, 23 March 2002 (1)

According to the Post the U.S. is now "...wrestling with the unintended consequences of its successful strategy of stirring Islamic fervor to fight communism."

So the books made up the core curriculum in Afghan schools. And what were the unintended consequences? The Post reports that according to unnamed officials the schoolbooks "steeped a generation in violence."

How could this result have been unintended? Did they expect that giving fundamentalist schoolbooks to schoolchildren would make them moderate Muslims?

Nobody with normal intelligence could expect to distribute millions of violent Islamist schoolbooks without influencing school children towards violent Islamism. Therefore one would assume that the unnamed US officials who, we are told, are distressed at these "unintended consequences" must previously have been unaware of the Islamist content of the schoolbooks.

But surely someone was aware. The US government can't write, edit, print and ship millions of violent, Muslim fundamentalist primers into Afghanistan without high officials in the US government approving those primers.

http://www.tenc.net/articles/jared/jihad.h...

[truth2power]

65. I read your original thread and I agree with what you're saying...

For reasons I can only speculate on, I think there's a lot of verbiage on this board, as a whole, dedicated to keeping the restless natives under control. And some just to distract and shut down discussion entirely where inconvenient questions are being raised.

That vets should have to avail themselves of a soup kitchen is an abomination and a sin. That people should have to die for want of health care while the execrable Joe Lieberman bloviates about"cost" while our billion dollar war machine grinds on and on is also a sin.

I agree with you. What have we become??


edit for typo

[blueamy66]

67. Hey, I printed your post

and tacked it up on my wall at work.

[patrice]

69. I hate that "our kids doing better than we did" is defined as: MORE, BIGGER, MORE EXPENSIVE

everything:
3 bigger cars not just 1
$200.00 jeans, not just the $30.00 ones
$50K weddings (that often as not end in divorce withing 10 years)
a couple of cruises a year
5K square foot houses with huge windows everywhere, not just 3K with carefully placed windows
houses heated and to 75 degrees in the winter, not just 65, and cooled to 65 during the summer, not 80
the biggest TVs available
every video game known to man
$1000.00 football game weekends.

Do I sound jealous? Well, you're wrong. I've had most of the above and I've learned the error of my ways. I'm over it.

And it's frightening now to see so many enslaved to Nothing.

I am frightened of what "the American Dream" has become; I am, hence, also frightened of "the Dreamers".

[Echo In Light]

70. More Dumb, Bigger Dumb, More Expensive Dumb

:evilgrin:


:hi:

[patrice]

71. Yea, not just Dumb, but also, Coarse, Violent, Un-Informed and the more so, the Better.

I go out into our community and see the generation that comes after the next one and I am saddened and afraid.

And it's my bias, but I blame a significant part of the failure in American Families and Family Values, ON THE CHURCHES.

[Echo In Light]

74. Too many small, tucked away communities brainwashed via TV culture & organized religion

These external, agenda-setting sources are deeply woven into the fabric of American cities and towns coast to coast, creating a consensus "reality" few question. Yes, you're correct, there'll continue to be all sorts of bizarre horror show-humanity manifesting from within the declining empire, especially as the facade of recent decades dissipates and more experience a paradigm shift, revealing the rigged game for more and more to see and acknowledge since the daily round of life is no longer capable of sustaining the illusions of that slippery, elusive 'American Dream' that once worked as a form of thought control, ensuring the populace remained passive and obedient.

[Enthusiast]

114. Can't find U.S.A. on the map.

But without the deeply ignorant the GOP would lose their base and Glenn Beck would lose his viewers.

[krabigirl]

123. Yep!!! I agreee...(more)

like you, I had all of that too...and I don't want my kids growing up with those things as "values." I am not jealous AT ALL.

[Blue State Blues]

72. America has the BEST ...

MARKETING in the world.

Whatever the actual state of our health care system (I use the term, system, loosely), or educational system, or lifestyle, we can be sure that the message is that Americans have the BEST that there is. (So don't dare ask for more that what we let you have now).

[patrice]

78. Blame that brainwashing on Skinnerian, a la Focus Grouping, Psychology and IGNORANCE.

[Blue State Blues]

80. Not so much Skinner as John B Watson

the father of behaviorism, who left Psychology (after a sex scandal) and founded the modern approach to advertising.

Skinner seems to have been basically a decent guy.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

73. I k&r'ed that one, and I'm k&ring this.

Change comes first through individual change.

Hearts can't change unless there's awareness of the goal and where one is in relation to it.

thank you for offering awareness.

[Pharaoh]

75. It is unfettered Capitalism

that you hate, and I'm with you there bro K&R

[CUTTIN HEADS]

77. A Big 'ol K&R...

[LaPera]

79. Anyone with a brain understood what you were speaking of & I agreed - Only a diabolical person...

an ignorant person or a person who didn't read your complete post would try and make something negative or ominous out of it...Again, what you said was right on the money and I agreed.

[Hatchling]

81. It is seriously dysfunctional.

I live on 10,400 a year and have been waiting for my section 8 to come through for years. Because I am a single disabled woman as opposed to a family with children, I keep getting bumped down the list, especially since more and more families are coming onto the waiting list.

I understand that these families are truly more in need than I am, but it is hard for me to find a place I can afford to live and I have to somehow feed myself, my cats and buy my meds and other things I need on $150 a month. Walmart helps. Target's prices are way higher on the things I need, and I can't afford the membership fee for Costco, even if I had a car to take me there. Public transit doesn't go there, and goes fewer places each year as they have to cut and reduce routes since the Govenator stole their funding.

Food banks help somewhat, but I am gluten-intolerant and the primary staples given at food banks has been reduced. I used to get three bags of fruits, vegetables, stews or tuna or chilli's with rice and beans. Things I could eat and things I could trade with my gluten eating friend.

Now they give one bag of staples which typically offers a few boxes of off-brand mac and cheese, maybe one can of tuna, rarely any fruit and starchy vegetables like peas, corn,or potatoes instead of healthy green ones like spinach or green beans. You can usually get another bag filled with day old bread the stores donate if you manage to get in line early in the day. By afternoon, it's gone.
As for food stamps, California screws us out of that.

Now, I manage. I have a roof over my head, and enough to eat. I have dial up for $10 a month which is my one luxury. I make gifts for my friends from found items. I am able to take college courses for enrichment for free due to a Board of Governors Grant. All my health care is taken care of except for my $20 medicine co-pay so medically speaking I am actually rich.

Housing is really the huge drain on my budget. If I had affordable housing, I would have breathing room. I could save up for a car and afford to drive it. My horizons would expand exponentially.

If you've read this far, understand there are people worse off than me. Tony, for example, who had to deal with pneumonia on the streets last year. I give him change I can't afford because he needs it. Sometimes I will put a beer on my charge card for him. I don't judge. If a beer makes him happier than a bag of chips, he gets it. He can't get housing because of his drinking problem. He has to be clean for 90 days before he can get into sober living (and I even know a few people so desperate as to pretend to have a drinking problem in order to get into a sober living situation). He can't get his drinking problem in hand because he can't get a stable environment. He can't get SS disability because he can't get stable enough to apply for it. I've tried helping, he can't do it.

I was fortunate, that when I became disabled I had disability insurance and some alimony which kept me afloat before my ssa and medicare kicked in. I was lucky I had a therapist who knew the system and got me on social security with no fight.

There are thousands and thousands and thousands of Tony's out there. Mental problems, drinking problems, behavioral problems that prevent them from getting into the rapidly shrinking safety net. Problems that could be addressed if they could get into the system.

If we had sufficient affordable housing, food and caring support systems the problems I face and the more severe problems Tony has would be alleviated.

[KansDem]

82. I understood precisely what you meant, for I at times feel the same way...

We have so much potential to be a great nation. Educated, informed, compassionate, able to reason in dealing with the nation's problems.

But we have succumbed to a "I got mine to hell with you" mentality. We idolize the wealthy while dismissing the poor.

We hold up rock stars, athletes, and Hollywood celebrities as our idols and ignore the scientists, artists, teachers, and garbage collectors.

We prize ignorance, superstition, and myth and loathe anyone who is intelligent.

It wasn't always this way, but has been trending this way since Reagan.

I used to think those individuals "in power" whether it's business, education, government, etc., were the nation's "best and brightest." Not anymore...

[DailyGrind51]

83. Blame the "free-market" cult that is behind all decision-making in this country.

The notion that an unregulated "free" market can govern all vital aspects of our lives is analogous to permitting a lynch mob determine justice.

[bigwillq]

84. K and R

:hug:

[rhett o rick]

85. I understood what you meant. There are lots of disrupters in DU, just trying to pick a fight. nt

[Chorophyll]

86. Your post from the other day was excellent

and this one tops it. I certainly understood what you meant.

[Maestro]

88. I read the first post and coupled with this post

I wholeheartedly agree with you. I am one disillusioned American. I will keep up the good fight as I hope you do too, but our fight will be won with grassroots work. I can't say that I gave up on affecting change at the national or heck, even, the state level, but I am now concentrated on helping my community for now, period. Have a wonderful holiday season despite all.

[femrap]

90. K and R again....

I hate what is happening to our nation. I'm 60 and I have watched as our nation had such promise and that came to a screeching halt with Raygun. And it has been downhill ever since.

The Greed is horrendous...these 'prosperity churches' boggle my mind. The hypocrisy is simply mind-blowing.

The hatred I see toward women in music, in advertising, on TV....it hurts my soul when I think of how women, Blacks, Browns, Gays, and progressive men worked together for a Peaceful World of Equality back in the days of the '60's and '70's.

I can't even sign my Xmas cards 'ho ho ho' without thinking that is how I am referred to today....a whore.

No, I'm with the OP...I don't like what our nation has become. All people deserve some civility. It used to be 'respect' but I think that is just too much to ask for these days.

I wish we didn't have to look at the pictures of the homeless camps in San Jose. I lived in the Bay Area and know that there is a ton of money in the Silicon Valley, but I imagine it has been condensed just like it has everywhere else....Upward to the few and the workers pushed down into poverty.

How fucking sad...shit. And it's Xmas Eve and I am ashamed of what this country's 'leaders' have allowed and done to those who deserve better.

I like socialism...it's about sharing. WTF is wrong with that? To me, these huge mansions are just as despicable as the ghetto housing.

Time for nog and some cheer...if that's possible.

[Enthusiast]

115. Nice post, femrap! Enjoy your nog.

I share your sentiments.

[krabigirl]

121. Great post!!! ITA

happy holidays from a fellow socialist. I'm not ashamed of it in the least.

[DesertDiamond]

93. Yes, yes, on everything you say. And I like your commentary on the word "earn"

IMO the word "earn" is used loosely these days. To me it means a person actually gave value in return for the money. A person may be PAID some amount, but it doesn't necessariy mean they EARNED it. Another word that is used incorrectly in IMO is "worth." A person may HAVE a billion DOLLARS, but that doesn't mean they are WORTH it. Unfortunately, in many cases they got it by ripping off others, but that point aside, every being has the same worth, which is infinite. But based on what that person has contributed to society, that person's worth is somewhere in the sub zero range.

Thanks for all that you said in your post!

[SOS]

94. It's this kind of stuff that's easy to hate:

"Banks Bundled Bad Debt, Bet Against It and Won"

They created securities, sold them to pension funds, local governments etc and then bet that they would fail.
Goldman Sachs made billions while the investors were robbed and millions lost their homes.
America is (was?) a pretty good place to live, but the criminals on Wall Street are going to destroy it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/24/business/24trading.html

[fascisthunter]

95. Damn, you are on a Role

Well said....

[donco6]

97. K&R again

[Political Heretic]

99. I hate nationalism.

And I hate our system that prioritizes the wants and whims of the financial elite above the needs of poor and working class persons.

[snooper2]

100. One poster posted pictures of ghettos in impoverished nations to make his point.

And you obviously missed the point...

Russia is an impoverished nation, Iran? And you also saw a side-by-side of a picture from the same country showing a display of wealth and power. Like I said in the other thread, get a clue...

You must hang around some really shitty folks to think "what we are allowing ourselves to become"...


Have a nice holidays if that's possible...

[Wardoc]

102. We knew what you meant, and we applaud your kind heart (nt)

[edogawa]

104. According to the AMA...

The biggest health problem of the poor in America is OBESITY....what does this say about America.

[Nay]

110. It says that inexpensive food in America is SHIT, that's what it says.

It also says that advertising rather than physical health drives damn near everything. It says that corporations who weasel their way into schools with crap food and drink are deemed more important than any issue involving children's health, appetite, or nutritional training. It says that even when there are serious concerns about the quality of the ingredients that go into foodstuffs, we get a toothless FDA that rubberstamps whatever a corporation says. That's what it says.

It says that there is a "watch TV" culture and a car culture, not a culture of outside fun and exercise. It says that sidewalks are a luxury, not something that used to be installed everywhere because people walked and biked places. It says that school phys ed is not as important as getting kids to cram one more stupid fact in their brains so they'll become good little robots at work when they grow up. It says that many people are so disheartened by their situations/jobs/culture/families that they eat junk out of depression and frustration.

Basically, we don't have a culture, but an "anti-culture." Normally, a culture will encourage in its members adherence to certain norms that are deemed healthy, supportive of families and groups (schoolkids, workers, etc.), and society in general. Now we have a culture that, in determining how to separate as many people from as much of their money as possible, worships and encourages whatever garbage and nonsense sucks in the big bucks. Let's really fatten people up with junk foods, and then sell them diet books and gym club memberships! Let's wave food in people's faces at all hours of the day and night, and then ridicule them when they aren't whippet-thin! Then we can also sell them some other product to make themselves feel better!

It's a hell of a way to run a society.

[edogawa]

127. I suppose I am saying....

That perhaps, in this season of good cheer, perhaps you Americans (I am not one) should be thankful for what you do have instead of crying about what you still lack. My mother used to say "Kansha wa yorokobi" ... Thankfulness IS Happiness.

I choose to live in your great country and I am thankful for the kindness you have all shown me. It is hard for me to see, as a foreigner, why so many of you seem so miserable.

[pundaint]

133. It says that American food vendors are selling bad food ideas to Americans

just as Insurance vendors are selling bad insurance, and investment vendors are selling bad investments and political parties are selling bad government.

[Doctor_J]

145. It says that the food we're provided is as shitty as the government

Not surprising, because the same salesmen who sell McDonald's to kids also sell Glenn Beck

[raging_moderate]

105. we have become heartless...

and have lost our national soul

[DesertFlower]

107. no need for apologies. nt

[Techn0Girl]

108. Capitalism = Death To those who Cannot Pay

Can't Pay your healthcare? You die.

Can't pay for food? You starve.

Can't pay rent? You're homeless

Can't pay for education. You work a subsistence wage Walmart all your life.

No one should be kidding themselves. Capitalism is merely 21st century feudalism where the serfs work their lives away in order to support 1% of the population in decadent luxury. YOU can only get what you need to continue to work - for them. Nothing more.

Now what are you going to do to change that? Because it's only going to be worse for your children.

[Enthusiast]

111. I hate the fascist ideology spread

by the hate mongers Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and their ilk. The U.S.A. is home to some of the most despicable human beings since the Third Reich.

[krabigirl]

120. +1

[Enthusiast]

112. I hate the religious extremism, intolerance

and lies spread by TV evangelists like Pat Robertson.

[krabigirl]

117. Me, too!! Along with the greed and selfishness, which goes hand-in-han with the extremism.

[Angry Dragon]

122. Me too

[debunkthelies]

124. I hate bat guano spun to sell as cotton candy.

Health care bill...bat guano
Bank bailout....bat guano
War on terror....bat guano
90% of MSM news....bat guano


:puke: :nopity: :hurts: :grr: :banghead:

[Triana]

126. Sorry about the self-righteous chest-beating in favor of deliberately missing the point

otherwise known as "Republican willful ignorance". We have some of that here, unfortunately - from people who profess to be "Democrats".

I understood you and rec'd your last post in fact I was very touched by it. I understand and rec this one too. People like you, who truly give a damn about something besides corprat profit - are what make this country great and hopefully, if we all work together, what will save it from looking so much like Darfur.

[winyanstaz]

128. K & R...thank you..well said

[Jeffersons Ghost]

129. With many returning Vets...

It literally takes years to be approved 100% service connected disability in most cases. For veterans who are waiting their turn for medical attention at the VA, lack of jobs isn't the issue: The real problem is too much PTSD - and too little funding. Facilities are packed to the max, with more arrivals every day.

[Sherman A1]

130. K&R Well Said

and to the 20% or so with negative responses to your post........ "tough"

[Mad_Dem_X]

131. Nothing to say, except: AMEN.

[madrchsod]

134. we have become a nation of cowards.

we were once a proud nation unafraid of anyone or anything but now we hide in the dark.

[Joe Chi Minh]

135. As well as having a great heart, you are very astute indeed, if I may say so.

[colsohlibgal]

140. Corporate Sponsored Treason & Insanity Plus Low Info Voters

This sick combination that has given us a return to the robber baron era and the perpetual war we had been warned about. Lewis Powell wrote the blueprint 40 or so years ago and he would be proud of how it turned out. Lots and lots for the few, scraps for the rest of us.

[mistertrickster]

141. I can't believe that people here didn't know what you meant. FreeRepublic of course is a different

story . . .

Cons love to pretend that they love their country way more than you do . . . or something.

[BrklynLiberal]

142. Great post..thanks

[CLANG]

143. I knew what you meant from the get-go

and I rec'd your thread because of it - as I just did to this one!

[Doctor_J]

144. The "Love it or leave it" is standard freeperspeak

Lots of Limbeciles at DU.

I like your avatar. We'll get our country back eventually.

[DonCoquixote]

146. MLK said it best

"I criticize America because I love her. I want her to stand as a moral example to the world.”

To which I may humbly add one thing.

It does not matter if the nation is America, France, China, Russia or any other. The people whose lives give the country value are almost NEVER considered patriots by their fellows. Every nation has a long line of people who are venerated by the present, but who ended up on the gallows, in the prison, or at best, the poorhouse. MILK gives a very special example, because many of the people who invoke him, from Glenn Beck to Obama himself, would doubtless be justified targets of his wrath were he alive.

[radhika]

148. I have these same feelings ...often.

Like this morning as I heard radio clips of Righties enraged because their fellow humans might possibly get some relief from pain and suffering and avoid bankruptcy due to illness. They were swearing to do everything they did in August (like Town Halls, guns to rallies) to bring the nation to its knees to prevent such a move.

A member of Congress actually PRAYING for someone to DIE to prevent his fellow humans from being treated as humans. Women in the military threatened with court martial for pregnancy by a GENERAL. Soldiers drained of hope and patience trapped tour after tour in our senseless wars. Suicide thoughts, sometimes actions. The nation has lost it's MIND (as with science, reasoned discourse and global warming) and certainly its HEART. I am sad and ashamed of America.

It's a beautiful land, with ugly people.