Congratulations Aetna, BCBS, Prudential, Humana etal,,,

[leftofcool]

You CEO's have fun with all that bonus money, ya hear.

[SoFlaJet]

1. yea and congrats to all of the American people

who now have HOPE of someday getting a health care plan, and congrats to all the people who won't be turned away for having a pre-existing condition. Not a perfect bill but a start that can be made better.

[ixion]

2. Mandated consumerism

it's a sad day for American liberty.

[leftofcool]

4. yes it is

sad indeed

[polpilot]

20. Like 'someone' said: "It's like ending homelessness by mandating everyone buy a house.'

[ixion]

22. and you have to pay a fine if you don't buy the house

that's exactly what it is.

And now that there is precedent, we can be ready for more such mandates.

[Le Taz Hot]

3. I see the cheerleader corps are out

early this morning unrecing. I'll give it a K & R.

[Laelth]

5. I am sure they are thrilled. n/t

Kill the bill.

Forcing people to buy insurance is no more the answer to a failed health care system than forcing people to buy houses is the solution to homelessness.

:dem:

-Laelth

[ThomWV]

6. They can now enjoy the satisfaction of a well made investment

Money spent on the US Congress is always money well spent.

[Dinger]

7. K & R

Sadly

[KharmaTrain]

8. A Final Bill Was Passed?

They're not quite popping the corks yet...there's still two more steps. Yes, this was a big one and for millions who don't have coverage or suffer from pre-existing conditions this was a very big step forward. This debate reminds me of the mandatory auto insurance debates of days gone by...one that mandated people who drive have insurance. Many claimed it was a government kick-back to the big insurance companies. Turned out to be a bonanza fo new, smaller companies who offered lower costs policies and created a lot of headaches for the large companies.

[ixion]

11. those who suffer from serious pre-existing conditions today

will probably be no longer with us when it would actually go into effect 5 years from now, and 5 years from now there will no doubt be ample loopholes for the new quasi federal agencies to effectively deny coverage to whomever they please.

The difference will be that if you don't pay their protection money, you get the IRS crawling up your butt.

[KharmaTrain]

14. And The Bill Said 5 Years??? Interesting...

We must be reading from different bills...many who have pre-existing conditions will be able to start benefitting from the get-go.

You're right...paying for insurance is "protection money"...and I gladly pay for it. It protects my house should something go wrong so I don't have to live in my car or somehow come up with replacement costs. It protects my car from the shitstain talking on their cellphone and weaving in and out of traffic. They also protect my family...and others from the massive costs of medical care. It's a lot easier to pay $250 a month than hit with a $50,000 bill. Would I prefer cheaper coverage? Of course...and why I supported public option to create competition. I also favor a deeper look at the costs involved with medical care...something avoided by many in this debate. From reigning in big pharma to tort reform to cut down on frivolous lawsuits to preventing denial of services. This is a start...and better than the status quo.

Personally, I'd like to see a mass demonstration...those who don't want to pay to take a stand and let's see what the courts have to say about it. Be assured, if rushpublicans regain control of the House & Senate, the mandate will remain but the subsidies will be wiped away (unless you're rich).

[ixion]

15. well, that's a very pretty picture you paint

we'll see if it works out in that best-of-all-worlds frame you've laid out. I don't think it will at all, if history serves as any guide.

And regarding the pre-existing conditions: Last I read, that didn't kick in until 2014. What bill are you reading?

[KharmaTrain]

17. A Liveable World...

If this country is to ever regain economic health, a functional and affordable healthcare system is a must. In many ways, the breakdown we're seeing is a result of a workforce that is beaten down and frustrated. It's the byproduct of 30 years of "trickle down" where the corporates have gotten too big and powerful...too much for a compromised govvernment to deal with. But as long as the middle class suffocates under heavy expenses and debt, there won't be a revival of the consumer economy that made the corporates fat.

I'm glad something is being addressed here and remain cautiously optimistic since being angry and frustrated doesn't accomplish much. This debate should be a learning experience of how the beltway games are played and to get smarter in the future on how to play them as well.

BTW...the bills I've seen (there are now two) address extending some benefits from passage. There's still plenty of haggling and horsetrading to be done before we have a final bill. Definitely voice your opposition...and I will as well as I'm not satisfied with much of what I see...get a bigger seat at the table to make changes now and in the future.

Cheers...

[ixion]

19. I totally agree with you about healthcare. I really do.

I believe it is as integral as education to a health society. I just don't believe this bill will solve any of the problems that led to this. I hope I'm wrong. I hope this actually makes things better, but I don't see that. It certainly doesn't make things better for me personally. Quite the opposite. I'm facing a rather stiff rate increase because now I'm required by law to carry more health insurance that I desire to carry.

We'll see. As I said, I really hope you're right.

Cheers. :toast:

[Selatius]

9. All I have to say is I hope to God liberals in Congress will amend this bill in the future.

It's the only way at this point.

[AndyA]

12. +1. n/m

[TornadoTN]

16. It's our only hope at this point but I'm not counting on it

I fear it will be nothing more than another endless barrage of excuses of why we can't have anything close to real reform.

[Selatius]

23. Yeah, I saw it go down like that once...with NAFTA.

Back when it passed, there was lip service paid to implementing "side agreements" detailing environmental and labor issues that were deleted from the trade agreement. Well, I still remember. If I had the power, I'd make them pay a lot more than lip service. Words are cheap.

[TornadoTN]

24. Exactly. I cringe every time I hear "we'll work on it after it gets passed!"

Because we've been down this road before and we know the reality is that nothing will ever be done because of "political reality" and other lame excuses.

[LibDemAlways]

10. It's the holiday season. Americans have been preoccupied the past

month and most are probably only vaguely aware of what's in the bill. If the mandate remains in the final version and the American public wakes up to the fact that their souls have been unwittingly sold to corporate crooks and they have no place else to turn to acquire health coverage, they're going to be beyond pissed and willing to vote for any repuke who promises to undo this turkey. That, coupled with Obama's outrageous lie that he never campaigned on a public option, could very well sink the Dems in 2010 and beyond. "Yes we can" royally fuck up.

[AndyA]

13. Phoebe can order that new Bentley convertible now!

And as for redecorating the Martha's Vineyard house, well...to hell with that...tear it down and build a new one!

A new yacht for the big CEO, and more than enough money to redo the private jets...

Redecorate the offices...is there room for a bowling alley?

I hope the final version is very, very much changed from what we have now.

[NJmaverick]

18. pathetic

[ProSense]

21. AHIP's statement

here