I Don't Remember So Many Democrats Being Angry at a Democratic President Since LBJ.

[David Zephyr]

From my friends -many life-long Democratic Party activists-- to acquaintances and family, from voices I respect here at the DU to those at the Daily Kos, Huffington Post, The Nation and MoveOn.Org, I can tell you that I've heard a lot and am still hearing a lot: President Obama has really lost a lot of support. And that's support he will be needing for three more years.

The disillusionment runs from anger to disgust, but it is real.

And it is not just about the corporate health-care bill he is pushing to sign, it's his failure to focus on job creation, it's his lack of working to stem the continuing foreclosures across the country, it's his escalation into Pakistan and now Yemen, it's his choice of advisers from the Goldman-Sachs dynamic duo to those in his Cabinet.

With an entrenched Republican Party set against him, and with so many in the Left feeling abused and manipulated, Obama is going to have a rough three years ahead now.

He has delighted his enemies in the GOP by pissing off his friends in the Democratic activist base.

Barack Obama may just be the first President in a very long time to be a Lame Duck entering his second year in office. I would have never believed this.

Shoot this messenger if it makes you feel better, but it won't change things.

Obama is now in a lot of political trouble.

What a fall.

What a waste of opportunity.

What a shame.

[ThomWV]

1. Oh, I don't know about that. There were times with Clinton that you had to bite you tongue.

[jgraz]

11. Clinton didn't have the internets to contend with.

One could argue that Clinton was far worse than Obama wrt corporate sellouts and triangulation. The difference is that Clinton could get away with his patented line of bullshit because the only people checking up on him were lazy print journalists and even lazier broadcast non-journalists.

Now, with youtube and blogs and people with a lot of time and access to an international communications medium, standard political lies have a half-life of about 12 hours. It's obvious that Obama is still using Slick Willy's playbook. Someone should tell him it's about 15 years out-of-date.

[pscot]

30. The online rage may not be such a bad thing

The people who were fed up with LBJ had no way to get heard, so they took it to the streets. It got to the point where Johnson couldn't travel without meeting hostile demonstrations. With the internet you can sit on your butt in front of the computer and convince yourself you're an activist.

Are people going to stay pissed off for three more years? If he closes Gitmo, draws down in Iraq and starts to withdraw from Afghanistan; if HCR turns out not to be the complete disaster people are screaming about; if he ends DADT... all this noise will be forgotten. And don't forget, he's gotten a lot done in his first year, without a single republicon vote. At this point he's still master of his own fate.

[jgraz]

32. It's not online rage, it's online disillusionment

And disillusionment has a much longer half-life than rage. When Obama comes looking for armies of volunteers for his 2012 campaign, he's going to be unpleasantly surprised.

[polpilot]

72. VERY surprised. Then he can ask Axelrod what happened.

[havocmom]

88. yep. I sent pretty pointed replies to Baucus, Reid Christmas greetings

and unsubscribed from an Obama activist newsletter.

There are DEM candidates out there. I will support them. Weasels are SOL

[Christa]

181. You said it

:pals:

We are hurt and disillusioned. I feel as if I am betrayed in a trusted relationship.

[laughingliberal]

45. Well, one thing going for him in the HCR disaster is the worst of it won't hit

until after the 2012 election. I think they count on people forgetting as they don't see any real consequences of it right away.

[Bluenorthwest]

146. I do not agree. First, this is about health, money, and loved ones

everybody I know is already concerned with what the mandated costs will be. That is now. Today. They will not forget this, this is not like other issues. Too many people have actual health issues or children who have health issues for this to be forgotten.
In addition, speaking the message of the worst details is the exact tonic for the GOP. You think they will let anyone forget any of it? Really? You expect that they will be moderate and truthful and calm about it all, letting facts stand as facts? I don't.

[laughingliberal]

243. I didn't say I thought it would work. I just think they believe that. nt

[defendandprotect]

160. I don't think it will be forgotten . . people needed help now ... not betrayal. . ..

[quakerboy]

221. Lets look at that timeline

What you are saying is that all the semi-panic'd people who fear their own health coverage situation enough that they refused to elect a decorated war hero president and instead chose a relatively new senator in part because he had a plan to help them will not be seeing one iota of relief before the next presidential election?

And you think this will be the one thing going FOR him?


I weep at the lost chance for a generation of Democratic democratic governance and policy change in this country.

[Patchuli]

123. Yeah, and master of our fate as well.

I'm not seeing the "change" I was promised in exchange for giving his campaign my hard-earned money, my time and my heart. What I'm seeing makes me feel used and taken...

[JVS]

136. Interesting idea of what's good and bad here

[liberation]

219. ... yeah, and if I were to win the lottery I would be rich.

Ironically the bank did not take that estimation as being good enough to open that limitless line of credit I wanted.

I am sometimes of the opinion that the Dem party entered the twilight zone, when the potential to do something... it is now peddled as an "achievement"



Yeah, Obama coulda, shoulda, woulda, or willa do something.... yet all those tenses are useless and meaningless when doing an estimation, when the main tense that matter is: HAS DONE. I find it ironic, how most Obama supporters shy away from that tense...

[inna]

35. That is when its ruling class

has lost its function but succeeds in clinging to power by force or fraud.


On edit: or both, as in our case.

[jgraz]

37. It's always both, isn't it?

[defendandprotect]

159. Why would you not have told the truth about Clinton . . . an adorable betrayer . . .

Trade agreements --

Overturning 60 years of welfare guarantees -- and btw, Gore encouraged him in that!

DLC poison --

[judesedit]

178. Why? Because he got a blow job? Like everyone else serving in Congress?

Spare me.

[avaistheone1]

2. All true. All facts.

[EFerrari]

3. So far, his Latin America policies are not huge favorites, either.

And that's just puzzling given that Latinos are the youngest, fastest growing constituency that backed him.

Maybe this presidency will show us exactly how influential voters are in the grand scheme of things.

It makes me more sad than anything. I watched his inaugural with Amy and Alice Walker doing color, lol, about five times.

Let's see how we do.

[Goldstein1984]

12. Honduras was a disappointment

I think that is where Hugo Chavez (and I) turned skeptical.

Now there is our growing military presence in Columbia.

[David Zephyr]

23. Yep.

And we are on the wrong side of history there...again.

[defendandprotect]

161. Same thing with RCC Bishops . . . they've betrayed their Latino members . . .

with their lies and attempts to shut down HCR because of abortion issue --

All Catholics support government run health care -- Latinos even more so.

AND, Catholics wanted contraception and ABORTION to be covered -- again, Latinos the

larger majority.

Everyone is being betrayed ---

I'm wondering a bit why we haven't heard from Michael Moore on this -- he was pleading

with Obama in a letter a few weeks back to do the right thing on health care and on wars.

Also, I think many more notables who are Democrats would be speaking out -- from

Howard Zinn to Alice Walker???

Maybe it's shock ? Maybe it's the holidays?

[EFerrari]

195. I've been watching ongoing critiques on Laura Flanders' show,

on Amy Goodman's, on Thom Hartman's, on Bill Moyers'. And thank goodness, these are smart people interested in solutions, not screaming or gratuitous attacks.

[defendandprotect]

206. Wish we'd see more of the solution aimed conversations here at DU, but it's beginning....

I think -- ???

Happy Winter Solstice - Nature's New Year!!

:)

[EFerrari]

207. Thank you! I'm hiding out here with you and my coffee

putting off starting a few hours of cooking. Don't tell anyone.

Have a great holiday, defendandprotect. :hi:

[defendandprotect]

162. Expanding attacks on Pakistan . . . of course expanding troops in Afghanistan . .!!!

[treestar]

4. The polls are more scientific than a list of your acquaintances

[EFerrari]

5. But I bet David's acquaintances weren't paid. n/t

[defendandprotect]

163. Exactly . . . and the polls which would reveal how overwhelmingly liberal America is . . .

aren't polls we're ever going to see.

[WeDidIt]

6. The factual data of polls says your anecdotal data is bullshit

Sorry, but 83% of liberal Democrats APPROVE of Obama. Overall 81% of Democrats APPROVE of Obama. That's a higher interparty approval rating for a president than any other president after one year in office.

http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/jobapproval-obama-dems.php

Your anecdotal data is a FAIL.

[David Zephyr]

16. Polls are moving snapshots. Give this four weeks.

As I said, shoot the messenger if it makes you feel better.

[WeDidIt]

17. Anecdotal evidence is always dismissed on its face

I predict Obama will move up to 86% approval amongst Democrats within four weeks.

[Moochy]

19. Bookmarked

"Thank Gawd it Passed"

[quark219]

139. On what planet?!

[theFrankFactor]

201. Then 86% of Democrats Need Counseling

If you happen to be Liberal at all, Obama is shit.

[defendandprotect]

164. Agree . . there is no DANCING IN THE STREETS ... that's for sure!!!

[bvar22]

29. I STILL give Obama the highest marks possible in EVERY poll...

..I respond to.
In private, I am beyond disgusted.
I suspect there are many more like me.
If so, Obama's support in the polls is soft.

[Mojorabbit]

126. I do the same

It is like family. I can complain about them but don't even try if you aren't family.

[BREMPRO]

if you thought DU represented most Dems, you would conclude he's a failure.

but as the linked poll points out, DU does not represent most Dems. It's become a cynical alternative universe here. Welcome to Teabag left. Obama's accomplishments are ignored here as well as an appreciation of the corporate and congressional forces stacked against him getting any of a progressive agenda accomplished. Compromises have to be made in our democracy. If people here want a lefty dictatorship, the can move to Venezuela.

[uponit7771]

240. Amen!!

[CJCRANE]

7. This seems like wishful thinking

or "creating reality" as some might call it.

[David Zephyr]

21. Wishful thinking and attacking the activist base = Delusion.

Sad.

[ProSense]

8. "the first President in a very long time to be a Lame Duck entering his second year in office. "

Yes, that always happens when a President gets 60 votes to pass the most historic piece of legislation in decades.


"What a fall."


:rofl:

[havocmom]

89. He didn't get 60 votes, K Street did

What a load of crap

[rhett o rick]

114. Yes, he got 60 votes, but he had to sell our souls to get them. nt

[quakerboy]

223. They didn't want our souls

No monetary value.

[pattmarty]

153. And it ONLY took "him" (no hands on at all) a whole fucking year...............

.............and gave away the "house" to get the magical 60 votes. At this pace we may get 3 or 4 more shitty bills by the time he's voted out in 2012. Say all the bad things about Bush, but that motherfucker had balls and jammed his destructive agenda through a bipartisan Congress. Bill Maher was 100% right when he said Obama needed to be more like Bush and less of a wimp. Wanna take any bets what he gets passed in 2010? Cap & Trade, EFCA, good fucking luck.

[defendandprotect]

165. How many years ago did Obama make the deal with power elites?

Basically, I've read that it was an overwhelming landslide win --

That they think as many as 24 Congressional seats were stolen --

Was someone trying to prevent something more than 60 real Senate votes?

Because had we had a larger Senate majority there would have been no way for

them to avoid Single Payer, Medicare for all --

IMO --

[ChiciB1]

174. And Bill Press4ss Said He Needed To Act More Like LBJ Than Gandhi!!

Bottom line to me is this, we in for a VERY BUMPY RIDE FOLKS!

I'm not even sure we can go ANYTHING to get this train wreck of the "bumpy" train tracks! IMO, we got suckered and now are getting screwed! Anything thing we do won't stop it, but we CAN SHOW how distasteful it is to us! Voting doesn't seem to be the answer either, because I'm also at a place that I feel even our "vote" has been compromised!

It' a dreadful feeling I have going into the New Year, and there are so many millions who don't even pay attention to what is happening because far too many of them are either in dire straits and unable to do anything but "try" to make it day to day. Some have their heads in the clouds and simply don't want to see and then the BIG GUYS are gaming the system and bleeding the rest of us dry!

Disappointment or betrayal isn't something I think the POWERFUL even care about when it come to the rest!

SERF'S UP! KINGS RULE!

[theFrankFactor]

202. cue music- Lowered Expectations

Have fun in the shitter.

[sellitman]

216. Bought and paid for.

Nothing to cheer about unless you are a Insurance company stock holder.

[quakerboy]

222. I am pretty sure that the legislation that will be remembered out of this decade

is the patriot act. Most historic does not always equal good. In comparison to that epic giveaway of our rights, this watered down flop is about as historic as your childs 15th word.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. Oh, that's OK. Look how well LBJ did after he dismissed the Left as irrelevant.

Wasn't that second term something?

[David Zephyr]

18. And when a sitting president faced a primary challenge from the Left.

Tierra_y_Libertad, I didn't even mention how he has pissed off pro-choice advocates and the GLBT community.

[WeDidIt]

20. Primary challenge from the left??????

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You're killing us here!

You need to go on a comedy circuit because this shit is GOLDEN!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

25. Yeah. That primary challenge from McCarthy had no effect on LBJ...oh, wait.

[David Zephyr]

53. I think it will happen again now.

All it will take will be for a progressive to show well in Iowa...

[pattmarty]

183. Can anyone say B-e-r-n-i-e S-a-n-d-e-r's?????????? Since Bernie.........

.............got elected to the Senate, he has gotten hooked up with Glenn Greenwald and other slick media "leftists" to solidify a "base" and more importantly hopefully make a bridge with the so many disenchanted voters in the country. He is a true populist. I love Dennis Kucinich but he has been painted as "wacko" by the MSM. There are others, Sherrod Brown, Franken, Feingold and some other very good people in the House.

[inna]

33. nice avatar.

it says it all.


:puke:

[WeDidIt]

34. Thank you.

He was once my congressman and I voted for him gleefully.

[inna]

39. The "gleefulness factor" is quite obvious here. Pretty disgusting. nt

[WeDidIt]

44. So you would begrudge a fellow DUer the support of a Democrat?

How,... unkind of you.

[ima_sinnic]

66. what "democrat" is that? Even Ben fucking Nelson has a D after his name

A D is cheap and easy to get and doesn't mean shit.

[WeDidIt]

73. Yeah

even Dennis Kucinich has one, and he votes with the Republicans more than Lieberman.

[ima_sinnic]

76. at least Kucinich votes on principle, not on what is best for HIS wallet, and

this whole "democrat"/"republican" division is starting to seem a little irrelevant. I don't even know what those labels mean anymore.

[WeDidIt]

229. Kucinich has no principles, only ego n/t

[IndianaGreen]

98. I think that for many politicians, the 'D' is for dickhead

not for Democrat.

[RetroLounge]

182. For many here at DU too

Several are in this thread.

:hi:

RL

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

42. Did you gleefully vote for Mayor Daley too?

[WeDidIt]

43. Every election while I lived in Chicago n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

47. That figures.

[WeDidIt]

49. I'd vote for him again next year, if I still lived in the city

He does good things for the city.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

50. I was, of course, talking about his daddy that paragon of free speech.

[WeDidIt]

52. That Daley was well before my age of eligibility. n/t

[Ken Burch]

132. And so did your dead grandparents.

n/t.

[ima_sinnic]

65. take your smugness and shove it

you make me feel motivated to work overtime to ensure the corporate stooge fake "democrat" DLCers and their appointed puppet are booted out of office. say hi to President Sarah in 2012, or some equally moronic repuke shill for your same base of bankers and buttf**king con artists as former Democratic voters sit home, vote 3rd party, or write in their dog's name.

[Dr.Phool]

71. My dog's name is Sara.

She hasn't announced if she's running yet or not.

[theFrankFactor]

205. I'll Get Your Back!

[WeDidIt]

230. If you're going after fake Democrats

Kucinich should be at the top of your list.

[H2O Man]

82. Odd statement.

McCarthy challenged LBJ, from the left. In NH, he came close to winning the popular vote, and did win a significant amount more delegates. Shortly thereafter, LBJ opted to drop out of the race.

While I appreciate that people can hold different views on what might happen in 2012 -- or what should -- the history being noted in this instance isn't humerous or open to question. It happened.

[havocmom]

90. Keep laughing; you might convince yourself

and the rest of us find it like watching an amusing idiot, raniting on the street corner

[JDPriestly]

133. Ted Kennedy challenged Carter I believe -- and look what happened.

Yes, Ted Kennedy challenged from the left.

[defendandprotect]

200. How do you mean that ....

Kennedy was previously compromised at Chappaquidic -- and we don't really

know what happened there. Recently, it's come to look like it may have been

something engineered by Nixon. In fact, there's a comment on the Nixon tapes

where JOHN DEAN is saying . . . "Wouldn't Ted Kennedy be amazed to know the bear

trap he's walking into" -- that was the Friday before the weekend.


Further, Carter was frustratingly weak -- not that I wanted him to bomb Iran.

However, the rescue missions were obviously compromised -- two or three missions

failing because the helicopters didn't have the necessary equipment they needed to

keep sand out of the engines . . . for a desert mission????

Meanwhile, I understand that Oliver North was heading those missions -- and second in

command was Secord!!!


Also look at what other stuff went on during the Carter administration ...

While Carter was tsk-tsking over Russian having invaded Afghanistan and withdrawing us

from the Olympics, in fact, his own administration had worked to BAIT the Russians into

Afghanistan "in hopes of giving them a Vietnam type experience."

It was also during his administration that US/CIA created the Taliban and Al Qaeda!!

And, created the VIOLENT Islamic movement and pushed it into Middle East.

If you want more info on that -- let me know!!

[JDPriestly]

234. Carter had to deal with many crises. The economic crisis that

really caused his administration to go out of balance was caused by Nixon administration policies. As for Iran, there appears to be some evidence that Republicans may have interfered in ongoing talks between the Carter administration and Iran about the release of the hostages before the election.

Interestingly, the documents regarding the Republican dealings with Iran have not, to my knowledge, been released.

As far as I am concerned, it seems very logical to me that the sales of military equipment to Iran during the Reagan administration were pay-back for the delay in the release of the hostages until after Reagan was elected and in office. The support for the Contras could have been funded through other surreptitious activities. The money was being laundered through the support of the Contras in my opinion.

And now, of course, Obama has inherited the worst economy since the Great Depression from two terms of Bush. Two terms of GWB during which he was completely irresponsible in his handling of the federal budget, our debt and every aspect of the economy.

[defendandprotect]

238. Completely agree re the "October Surprise" . . .

Gates was involved in that, as well -

However, it would be naive to suggest that they "documented" their illegal/treasonous

secret deals to have the hostages held until Reagan was sworn in!

However, there was enough information available for investigators to determine that this

was all likely. Bush, Sr. was involved evidently in face-to-face negotiations.

Also agree with you on Iran-Contra ...

Whatever Obama inherited from Bush -- and I agree Bush bankrupted our Treasury after

throwing away the surplus Clinton left -- the Democrats have keep the wars going the

last three years post-2006 elections. Obama is creating a new surge in troops.

Obama has moved war into Pakistan. Obama has kept the war going another year.

Obama has overseen huge bailouts for corrupt capitalism -- and has NOT reinstated

New Deal regulations on capitalism.

Another $800 BILLION is allegedly being worked in secret by Rahm Emmanuel in a Fannie/Freddie

bail out!!

Obama has continued to subsidize the Vatican with huge amounts of tax payer dollars going

to their "faith-based" religions.

Whatever the state of the Treasury when Bush left, Obama has only worsened the situation.

Another new MIC budget the other day $636 BILLION !!!!


Additionally, REAL health care reform would have saved our government money --

and would have created 2.3 million new jobs. It would have been a tremendous boost to

our economy and for our citizens.


The stimulus was very week -- and wrongly aimed. There should have been a jobs creation

program -- though I understand there is one in the works which creates jobs THROUGH

CORPORATIONS!! Trickle down jobs? There should be direct stimulation for jobs to improve

the economy.

Additionally, the trade agreements are doing great harm to our citizens and our economy.

They should be restructured, re worked -- and/or overturned!

Obama has not moved on them -- and seemingly would be against improving them.

On and on --

[JDPriestly]

247. +1

[defendandprotect]

166. Right . . . but the women's movement have been backing r-w Dems ...as long as they were pro-Choice!!

That's a huge argument I've had with all of the women's/Pro-choice groups --

Remember when Emily's list were back Repug women if they were pro-choice!!

Made for teeth-gnashing!!!

[IndianaGreen]

97. LBJ made the same mistake that Obama has made: he listened to his generals

and it will be Obama's global neoliberal wars that will bankrupt our country and destroy his Presidency.

[defendandprotect]

167. Unfortunately, bankrupting our Treasury will also destroy democracy . .. I think????

I've always thought the right wing knew that was one of the fastest ways

to defeat democracy?

Agree with what you're saying overall --

:) sadly!!

[Major Hogwash]

196. We can borrow more money from the Chinese though.

Who the hell was the one that signed that deal?

Bush or Clinton?

[defendandprotect]

203. Funny how coincidental so much of this stuff is . . .

China has money -- they now have our jobs --

Vatican needs money for their pedophile lawsuits -- they now have our tax dollars

subsiding their "faith-based" religious organizations --

and there's an investigation into whether they've used our tax dollars to pay off

the pedophile lawsuits!!!

Merry, berry -- Winter Solstice --

:)

[ixion]

10. I agree with you completely

there's a group of snarky folks around here mocking any real, honest debate about this; and I think that means there is something to it that they're trying to spin out of.

The bottom line is that this has hurt the Dems, despite the DLC'ers claims to the contrary.

[Kaleva]

13. People associate with those of like mind.

I remember one saying he couldn't believe McGovern lost because he and everyone he knew voted for him.

[defendandprotect]

168. I'm note sure that Humphrey didn't actually win vs Nixon . . .

but that's not an argument against the damage Obama has done --

Just commenting that the individual computers came in during the late 1960's . . .

and the LARGE computers used by MSM came in during the mid-1960's.

MSM had prior to that only been able to report actual votes --

the computers gave them the power to PREDICT votes -- and to CALL elections for

candidates -- and Electroral votes for presidents!!

This all began to happen, coinicidentally, just as America was passing The Voting Rights

Act. Was Nixon's "Southern Strategy" a fake? I think so.

This may have all only been vote stealing --

And, of course, as far as I can see, the primaries are a great concern to power elites

so they can keep any real leaders from rising.

[Liberation Angel]

14. The problem is that people support the lies and hate against him here

and people absorb that.

Earlier I believe you said you were sending a hateful OP that Obama lied to your entire e-list.

The claim that Obama lied has now been totally debunked by reporters who say that OBAMA NEVER UTTERED THE TERM "Public Option" during the debates or aywhere on the campaign trail.

See the MSNBC piece here where they conclude Obama told the truth to the WP:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7316563

We have fallen for bullshit and tripe and we pass it along like mindless unthinking sheep and spread the hate and distrust.

And I have to wonder whose fault it is that we may get F*cked in the next rounds of elections.

Because the haters and apologists for hate continue to spread the right wing lies and meme that Obama is no different than Bush. It is the classic Machiavelian Rovian themes that MANY here embrace like clueless marionnettes on the strings of an invisible evil force (thinking all the time that it is hip and progresive to oppose Obama and spread the lies and the hate)

Think about it.

have you sent out a correction that Obama did NOT lie yet?

Shouldn't you?

[laughingliberal]

51. Here is a link to a site that did an analysis of the competing health care plans in March of 2008

Obama’s key components here include:

* Establishing a new public program that would look a lot like Medicare for those under age-65 that would be available to those who do not have access to an employer plan or qualify for existing government programs like Medicaid or SCHIP. This would also be open to small employers who do not offer a private plan.
* Creating a “National Health Insurance Exchange.” This would be a government-run marketing organization that would sell insurance plans directly to those who did not have an employer plan or public coverage.
* An employer “pay or play” provision that would require an employer to either provide health insurance or contribute toward the cost of a public plan.
* Mandating that families cover all children through either a private or public health insurance plan.
* Expanding eligibility for government programs, like Medicaid and SCHIP.
* Allow flexibility in embracing state health reform initiatives.

Obama would also mandate guaranteed insurability, a generous minimum comprehensive benefits package such as that required for federal workers, the ability to take their policy from one job to another (portability) when it is purchased through the new Medicare-like public plan or the "National Health Insurance Exchange," and he would require providers to participate in a new plan to collect and report data about standards of care, the use of health information technology, and administration.

http://www.thehealthcareblog.com/the_health_care_blog/2008/03/a-detailed-anal.html

Pulled from thin air, I assume

[grahamhgreen]

120. Their claiming that program is not the same word as option, therefore Obama did not lie.

This is more of the pathetic spin that Obama swore he would change.

Sad.

[laughingliberal]

241. Yeah, that's just nuts nt

[grahamhgreen]

119. He lied. And you are lying about the lie. Arguing semantics over substance. Same political BS, not

Change at all.

[katkat]

142. Lib Angel

I guess elves made up the issues section of his campaign website.

[defendandprotect]

170. PLUS in 2009 Obama supported Public Option and Pelosi did only weeks ago!!!

[Bluenorthwest]

149. You keep selling this idea that what our parents taught us is a lie

is not a lie, that there is a huge amount of latitude in meanings and in emphasis. Sadly for Obama, the religion he uses to excuse his homophobia teaches an extremely strict code of speech conduct, strict to the point that the speaker is accountable for misunderstandings he allows to occur. Spin and hair splitting are forbidden by that religion.
So as you make your pitch, remember, Obama is the one that said he's a big Christian, who can not bear equality for some minorities because he is so committed to his faith.

[defendandprotect]

169. Actually, the problem is some would like to ignore reality . . .

like you ---

[kiranon]

218. Thank you. President Obama hasn't changed. This board has.

In my opinion, this board is being taken over by those who no longer or never did believe in this President whom we worked so hard to elect. Don't give up now. Stay the fight and win tomorrow.

[Raineyb]

237. What a load of crap!

Seems like too many people, which apparently includes you, treat politicians like sports players. Anything they do is okay so long as they are on your team. God forbid you should hold them accountable for doing what it is YOU want instead of selling your interests out to the corporations.

:thumbsdown:

[quakerboy]

225. How about mandates?

did he utter that word?

[Goldstein1984]

15. Add me to your anecdotal list

I'm disappointed. Obama no longer has my support, for all the reasons mentioned.

He can get it back, but only with major changes in policy.

I can't remember the last time I was called in a poll. When I was, I remember answering strategically, asking myself what the poll sounded like, and what answer would best get the results I want. The only poll that matters is the election.

[David Zephyr]

27. Gonna be a whole lot of anecdotal Democrats to contend with.

Dick Morris was better at triangulation than David Axelrod.

Welcome to the anecdotal list, Goldstein1984.

[katkat]

144. anecdotal list

Every Dem I know personally is furious with Obama, and also my few Repub relatives who actually voted for him. I never in my lifetime thought those people would vote Dem, but they did and now they are furious about being sold a bill of goods.

[kjackson227]

22. Hopefully, level heads will prevail eventually in a few months...

then even the purists will come to realize that what has been accomplished through HCR (not perfect, but who and what is) and the economy (with the exception of job creation) is truly remarkable. There's still a lot to be done (Afghanistan and Iraq wars), but this president is doing a pretty good job so far.

[Dragonfli]

213. Hopefully I will be able to get another part time job to pay the new poor tax.

But this reform was never about me or any of the other "dirty" working people. It was to help the Insurance Industry, a known predator that will always feed happily on my class - refusing more and more care and perpetually increasing rates that furnish large salaries.

For the good of the nation I suppose.

I shall try to be happier about the sacrifice of us mere workers (cattle really) for the greater good of the legacy, and the few "cleaner" Rahm approved Americans.

[earth mom]

24. Obama has blown a huge opportunity to be one of the greatest presidents ever. nt

[butterfly77]

31. WRONG!

[quakerboy]

226. WRONG WRONG

see what I did there? Made it a double negative, thus nullifying your unsupported statement?

[katkat]

145. earth mom - right, blown giant opportunity n/t

[defendandprotect]

171. I think Obama is making clear that wasn't the deal he made with the power elite ...

[cliffordu]

26. I don't think he's in any political trouble at all...

if the thing had failed to pass, then he'd have been in trouble.

The only place he SEEMS to be in trouble is here in DU and the 'liberal blogosphere' wherever that is.

[HipChick]

40. +100..well said

[fascisthunter]

56. that's where you are sorely wrong

it's not just the left, its the folks who considered themselves to be moderates and independents. You don't care so it doesn't matter, grab and run.

[cliffordu]

64. And of course there are those that touch themselves every time

they say that shit, wanting to believe they are right, in their lonely pursuit of being -right-

[fascisthunter]

106. why did you feel the need to accuse me of masturbating while posting on DU

why so personal? Is it that I had the audacity to challenge your point of view, that gets you so angry you need to resort to something so juvenile and crude? I really never minded disagreeing with you until now. Once it slips into being personal, it crosses a line with me. I'm sure you can understand that.

[cliffordu]

111. Was I speaking metaphorically???

Yes, Yes I was.

I could have said..."Get their Jollies" or "Get their Yaya's out"

Or whatever.

But juvenile and crude seem to be fine as long as it's the 'Activists' are calling those who disagree fascists and apologists and shills and any other fucking thing that comes to mind.

"...You don't care, so it doesn't matter, grab and run.."

WTF do you MEAN by that?? I don't care???

You don't know what the fuck I care about because you've never asked.

Sorry I hurt your feelings. Considering the state that the US and Democratic party are in right now, we need your feelings pristine and unhurt.

Or you'll bail out.

Like the other "activists"

[Bluenorthwest]

151. When you have no retort, go with filth!

[defendandprotect]

172. You've just described your own situation . . . you're on "IGNORE" . . .

[sendero]

100. You are thinking wishfully...

... as always. The RIGHT HATES this bill, ALL OF THEM. The LEFT HATES this bill, about 90% of them and the middle is tepid at best.

How does this not hurt Obama? How does this not hurt Dems?

[cliffordu]

112. Keep watching,

The clue train will be by in a while.

[scentopine]

108. LOL! - blame the liberal media! -nt

[cliffordu]

113. Nope - re-read wtf I wrote.

:eyes:

[tammywammy]

109. +1 n/t

[rhett o rick]

116. He is not in trouble. Rahmbo decided to dump the left that got Obama elected in favor of picking up

support from the corporatist right of center.

IMPEACH RAHMBO

[defendandprotect]

173. Largely agree....but think co-option of Dem Party is to destroy it

and to eliminate any threat of its being used to create progressive/liberal

legislation or action --


This won't stop until both parties are FASCIST --

[tavalon]

122. You are right that the anger is higher here,

but I had a nurse say "Did you guys hear that they passed that POS healthcare, I mean, no care bill." I don't talk politics at work because I know I'm left of damn near everybody. Now, in a different crowd, I would likely explain that it isn't a done deal, now it goes to reconciliation committee and so on, but I don't talk politics at work so I said, "yeah, I heard." and went on with my work.

Yet another anecdotal that doesn't mean shit, but I do think there is trouble brewing out in electorate land.

[defendandprotect]

175. A large part of their problem is, despite rw ability to propagandize, finally,

it becomes clear that capitalism/corporatism is THE clear threat and impediment

to democracy and human values ---

I think this is what so many meant when they tried to see the bit of "silver" in the

lining when GOP controlled everything and offered a corporate-fascist-warmongmongering

agenda --

The polarization helps in a strange way --

[MadMaddie]

28. A few comments..

And it is not just about the corporate health-care bill he is pushing to sign:
Companies have laid off workers and used the health care of employees as a reason to off-shore jobs. So this bill in whatever it's state removes this excuse for corporations to export jobs. NAFTA does need to be repealed it is only hurting American workers.

It's his failure to focus on job creation:
You put all the blame on President Obama what about the Corporations that have been waiting years to lay off workers yet still give their CEO's huge bonuses? No responsibility there? The last thing to come back from a near depression is jobs and this has always been the case.


It's his lack of working to stem the continuing foreclosures across the country:
Yes, he does need to come up with a plan that works. But again you and others don't hold the banking and mortgage industry accountable for the crimes that they committed. Sadly, people used their homes as banks to squeeze every ounce of equity they had to do whatever they needed to do.

It's his escalation into Pakistan and now Yemen: Do you know what's going on in Pakistan right now? Well let's say if the previous administration had not withdrawn our troops and sent them to Iraq, we would be done with Al Queda and Afghanastan. So put the blame where it needs to be. Now the mountains between Afghanastan and Pakistan are infested with Al Queda, the Pakistani government is unstable, so what happens if the government falls? Al Queda gets the nukes and the next Hiroshima will be India, Israel and a few other choice countries.

It's his choice of advisers from the Goldman-Sachs dynamic duo to those in his Cabinet:
No argument there.

With an entrenched Republican Party set against him: Who gives a fuck what the Repug party thinks or does? They have proven they care not for the American people and the sure as hell don't care for a black President.

And with so many in the Left feeling abused and manipulated, Obama is going to have a rough three years ahead now: So there are folks who are dissapointed? Really? Life itself is disapointing but we make the best out of what we have.

This guy does not walk on water and never has. My expectations were lower than most, has he disapointed me? Yes! Am I going to give up and hope that he fails and ensure that the Repugs get back in power? No! I am not and neither should anyone else.

I have been reading DU and I see angst, I see depression and I see anger but what I don't see is solutions. You can complain all you want but what is the action plan?

My plan: Are there Dems up for reelection in my state? Did they support what we wanted? Were they conservadems? Well if they failed us then we should replace them buy getting someone that is more left leaning.

Which Repugs are up for reelection? Can we defeat them? We need to find a candidate that can defeat them.

When Lieberman comes up for reelection we need to put a massive effort in removing his ass from his seat. Ned Lamont should have been in that seat and we would have had a stronger bill.

What are each of you going to do in 2010 in your own states to get the results that we desire?

Flame away!



:popcorn:

[Hannah Bell]

41. "you and others don't hold the banking & mortgage industry accountable for the crimes they committ"

you're confused. it's not my job to hold them responsible, if by this you mean exacting penalties for their crimes & enacting legislation to make it less likely to happen again.

"We" don't have this power. Our leaders & legislators *do*, that's why "We" elect "them".

They've so far shoveled money at the perps & failed to do shit. IT's THEY who "didn't hold them responsible". The general public was outraged & pissed from the get-go.

[bvar22]

48. There ARE some solutions but most are in the talking stage.

1) The #1 action should be the replacement of Arlen Specter by Joe Sestak in the Democratic Primary in Pennsylvania 2010.
Obama had pledged support for the Republican (Specter), and of course the DSCC and the Conservative Democrats will ALL support the conservative Republican turned Democrat, Specter.
We SHOULD make this Democratic Primary a National Battle Ground by organizing a coordinated campaign for Specters liberal opponent, Joe Sestak.
If we are successful at coordinating our financial and public support for Sestak, we can send a STRONG Message to the conservative Democrats that they can NO LONGER ignore us.


2)Another conservative Senator up for re-election in 2010 is Evan Bayh in Indiana.
Bayh enjoys strong local support, mostly trading on his fathers name recognition, but is the leader of Conservative Senators in the Senate and is usually the first to organize opposition to any "Liberal" issues on the agenda.
While most Indiana voters support Bayh on name recognition, they have no clue as to how much of a Republican Evan Bayh is, frequently joining ranks with Republicans to vote AGAINST "Democratic" issues.
While we probably won't be able to unseat Bayh in Indiana, a strong NATIONAL effort to back a Liberal opponent could make his Primary a nightmare, and be effective in sending a message.

The Left must be careful to not dilute our power by taking on too many battles.
We NEED to coordinate and FOCUS our national enery.
If The Left can coordinate our effort on a National level we CAN be successful at at least making the Conservative Democrats acknowledge that:
We do exist.

We ARE paying attention.

We ARE taking names.

Ignoring us has a PRICE.

I will be sending donations to Sestak:
http://joesestak.com/Home/Home.html

and WHOEVER Specter's Democratic opponent is in the Primary.
If YOU are a Liberal Democrat, you should too.

[tavalon]

125. Could you post this as an OP?

This is change I can believe in!

[defendandprotect]

179. Hi . . . . yes, agree . . . and I think we need a forum for this . . . STICKY??

So we can add names to the list and keep track of who we might get to

run against them --- NO DLC!!!

The other side of this is to ensure that everyone is awakened and understands

we should block every faucet that would pass liberal/progressive money onto

any DLC or "Blue Dog" . . .

Good to see some work on Plan B -- and

this is what Wm. Greider and Michael Moore and others were also advocating!!!

We need lots more discussion --

This isn't disappointment -- it is undeniably betrayal and few Americans will be

able to delude themselves that it is otherwise.

:)

[MadMaddie]

244. Thank you! This is exactly what I was talking about!

Happy Holiday's!

[Frosty1]

54. Thank You MadMaddie

Well said. I get the feeling that people want it all and want it all right now or else they will take their ball and go home.

Kennedy tried to do too much too fast and we know where that got him.

I sometimes wonder if all this anger is displaced anger left over from our impotency at the actions of the bush regime. I do believe there are a lot of troll agitators stirring the pot here at DU.

Looking at this health care bill I can see the potential that we may already have the "public option" it's just not being called the public option.

I think I am beginning to see how the various parts of it are fitting or can fit together with other programs already in place.

All I know is that my Granddaughter who had leukemia can now get the health insurance that was denied her last month and. that is a very good start.

A president is not a king or a miracle worker he must work within the constraints of the real world. I for one plan to give him my full support and the gift of enough time to see how this all shakes out.

[tavalon]

127. People here are furious and feeling very helpless

They grabbed on the first meme they could think of to make the politicians pay attention - by staying home in droves. Bad idea and they will get around to seeing that within the next couple of weeks. But there has been a vacuum. We don't want to support the Democrats just because we have no choice. But we do have a choice - during the primaries. This is the meme that needs to win out. Don't sit it out, fight it out. We are the electorate, hear us roar!!!

[Bluenorthwest]

152. Oddly I get the feeling that those who support it mostly have

personal priorities being met by the pre existing condition clause. They all feel compelled to cover the 'I got mine' thinking with much verbiage about the objectives of other people. For you, this is about your families needs. That is perfectly fine. Pretending it is about something more, that is not fine, and pretending that other people do not have families with needs of our own is also not fine.
And you know, only a person putting up a smokescreen would point out to other adults that the President is 'not a king'. That is simply rude. A thing you'd never say to anyone's face.
"He's not a king, and this is what I need." There is your post, much more to the point. Editing is good. Or just a simple 'I got mine, screw the rest' would do fine also. Truth is better than bs.

[jonnyblitz]

157. exactly. THANK YOU.

:applause: :hi:

[defendandprotect]

184. Leading with the "pony" argument and "take the ball and go home" --

and even more so trying to hook it to JFK doesn't set out in the direction of creating an ingenuous post --

Kennedy tried to do too much too fast and we know where that got him.

JFK was gradually removing troops from Vietnam -- LBJ reversed that literally overnight . . .
the night of the assassination --

JFK was also waiting until after the next election to destroy the CIA -- and sadly that was
never done. Nor was the total removal of troops from Vietnam.

Meanwhile, JFK was also ending the oil depletion allowances -- and the PLATFORM of the
National Democratic Party called for nationalizing the oil industry.

That was also the thinking back to FDR's administration - however, when FDR sought the advice
of LBJ on that issue he advised in the negative. LBJ was, of course, closely connected to big
oil and Mafia.

Oil industry/CIA/Vietnam . . . rather I would say that JFK and the national party proceeded
too slowly against this corporate fascism.

I sometimes wonder if all this anger is displaced anger left over from our impotency at the actions of the bush regime. I do believe there are a lot of troll agitators stirring the pot here at DU.

While I agree with you that there are trolls at DU, they are right wing trolls.
As for the reaction to the betrayal re health care, the internet is not an aberration --
the dissatisfaction with this bill is clear -- everywhere.

[MadMaddie]

245. Thank you Frosty1!

Best wishes to your family and your granddaughter. I hope that all of you have a wonderful holiday!:hi: :hug:

MadMaddie

[Number23]

59. Great post, Maddie. Very well said.

And I honestly don't get why post after post after post on this site keeps saying "Dems are disappointed with Obama" when every bit of evidence to the contrary is presented on a regular basis.

[tavalon]

124. You just read off my game plan

Though neither of my Senators actually needs to go. I'm not on fire for either of them but that ain't no thing. I'm going to making a list and check it twice and only the nice will get a penny of my hard earned money. DFA is definitely on my list and OFA is off, off, off.

There will be no primary challenge of President Obama like someone said upstream. The big change is going to be the midterms and I'm going to do my best to be doing positive activism and wiping those blue dogs' noses in the shitpile they made.

And I guess since it's required these days, you should know I canvassed for Obama, I sent plenty of money, yadda, yadda, yadda. No, sorry, not a PUMA. Am I mad at President Obama? Hell, yes, I am. But I have enough anger left over for the Senate, many in the House and even some left over for the stupid conservajudges on the Supreme Court (I know they have nothing to do with this bill, yet. I just didn't want to leave them out).

[MadMaddie]

246. Thanks Tavalon!

I like the following line...

<snip>
I'm going to making a list and check it twice and only the nice will get a penny of my hard earned money.
<snip>

Happy Holiday's!!

MadMaddie!

[LostInAnomie]

36. DU is not representative of the Democratic Party as a whole.

The people that are complaining about Obama on here are very small portion of DU members as a whole, which is an even smaller portion of the "Netroots", which is an even smaller portion of the Democratic Party's base, which is a portion of the entire Democratic Party.

Don't let the lamenting of at most a couple of thousand people confuse you into thinking that the entire party is on the verge of chaos. Obama is still incredibly popular among Democrats and will only be more popular when the final bill is passed.

[terrell9584]

62. If it contains the taxes on insurance benefits

And mandatory health insurance the unions will go absolutely apeshit. I know. I come from a union family. Union workers for years have accepted less in the way of pay raises in exchange for better health benefits and now they want to tax those benefits.

And as for the mandatory insurance. The young people of this country are going to revolt against that shit. If you are a grad student you probably can't afford it. If you are a recent college grad there's a good chance you've been unemployed since you graduated. If you do have your job you've realized how much you do pay in taxes and the idea that the government can tell you that you have to pay a portion of your check to a private company or get penalized, especially if you can't afford it or just don't want you, will piss you off even more.


This plan spits in two key groups of the coalition that elected Obama. If he doesn't back track it will have political consequences. Just as Clinton how hard unions came out to campaign for NAFTA supporting Democrats in the elections of 1994...

[LostInAnomie]

68. I doubt it.

As a member of a union (UTU), there are plenty of other reasons to vote for Obama, and I'm sure unions will get other concessions from Democrats in other bills.

The bill will also allow young people to stay on their parents insurance until they are 27, on top of other subsidies they will be eligible for if they are making a low income. It they are unemployed they will be eligible for other government programs. I doubt too many young people will be pised that insurance will be made more affordable to them.

[defendandprotect]

185. Taxing health care benefits connected to one's job . . . !!!???

Wow -- that's going to be popular!!!

Even more garbage piled upon the garbage --

[phasma ex machina]

91. +1 Although DU keeps me from losing my mind, it is but a rather small corner of the universe. nt

[HipChick]

38. oh well..enjoy President Palin..

I'm sure she'll do a great job..

:nuke:

[EFerrari]

61. That's so worn out. It never made any sense in the first place.

You know that YOU are comparing Barack Obama to Caribou Barbie, right? Is that a good idea?

[ima_sinnic]

67. like I care. I'll vote for whomever I damn well please, & it will NOT be Obama in 2012 (nt)

[KoKo]

81. OOGHAH BOOGAH....Do WHAT WE SAY or you will get "SARAH PALIN!"

:scared:

[defendandprotect]

186. Always think in a downward spiral . . . motivated by fear -- that works ...

[customerserviceguy]

46. There were enough people angry at Jimmy Carter

to give Teddy Kennedy the idea that he had a fighting chance to take the nomination in 1980.

[Frosty1]

69. It seems to me Obama will have enough to contend with

The banks seem to be doing the same thing they did during the Carter years. They quit lending money back then too. Then they blamed Carter for the economy.

[customerserviceguy]

150. Actually, it was at the end of Carter's term

that they turned off the spigot, when interest rates rose dramatically. I was working in the title insurance business from 1976 onward, and I remember a lot of lending going on in the 1977 through mid-1979 period. I considered myself lucky to get a home mortgage in 1979 for 10.5%.

Right now, interest rates have nowhere to go but up. When they do, you will really see the banks holding on to their ill-gotten bailout money.

[defendandprotect]

187. That's true . . . I'm thinking Howard Dean/Bernie Sanders . . .

[freddie mertz]

55. I am 56 and lived through LBJ and Carter, and Clinton.

The anger we are seeing right now FROM DEMOCRATS who supported this president has been provoked almost entirely BY this president.

It's not just the failure in policy.

The president's public waffling and then lying about the PO (in his comments to the WaPo), combined with the remarks regarding "liberals" by his majordomo Rahm, have been directed specifically at progressive supporters who took him at his word, and reveal a complete contempt for the people who worked hardest to put Obama in office.

I never heard anything like that from Clinton or Carter, and LBJ, well that was an especially tragic situation.

I guess my point is that much of the wound in the case of Obama is self-inflicted.

He didn't NEED to piss us off this much. He could have taken a more conciliatory tone.

But by lying to us and telling us, in effect, to Fuck off, he dug his own pit on this one.

That is something rather new in my experience, especially this early on.

[glitch]

57. He's courting disaffected Republicans.

That there have been so many is fairly unusual in recent history, thank a Bush.

He has said he admires Reagan, I think he's going to try for crossover Republicans the way Reagan achieved crossover Democrats. Ignoring, or even scorning the left is an obvious appeal for them.

[terrell9584]

63. But the thing is

Reagan was able to get Democratic crossovers without alienating his base. The Republicans Obama is getting right now all are the economically conservative ones who happen to be social liberals. He'd be far better going after the populists who might be socially conservative but who'll be on board for most of the economic stuff and the programs and who themselves one time considered themselves Democrats (and who were Reagan Democrats back in the day)

[glitch]

80. That's true about Reagan's base.

I could be wrong, but it seems to be the most logical reason for behaving so unnecessarily rudely.

[Le Taz Hot]

190. I've always disagreed with conventional wisdom

as to what the Reagan strategy really was. I know conventional wisdom says it was disenfranchised Democrats that put him over the top, but I always saw it as the fruition of Nixon's Southern Strategy AND the fact the Reagan brought in the RW nutso fundies who were, up until then, considered the lunatic fringe (they still are IMO).

This Administration is taking a page DIRECTLY from the Reagan strategy except instead of going after disenfranchised Democrats he's going after disenfranchised Republicans and he continues to court the RW nutso fundies ala Rick Warren.

Unless the Republicans run someone so heinous that centrist Republicans could never vote for that candidate (not likely), Republicans aren't going to vote for him and, even if they do hate the designated candidate, will most likely stay home. Either way they're not voting for Obama.

In the meantime, he's managed to lose the left, many in the GBLT community and many women. I'm also going to gamble here and predict that a lot of the minorities who showed up to work for his campaign and vote for him will not be doing the same thing in 2012. Don't look now, Obama, but there goes your base.

[TacticalPeek]

58. 'That is something rather new in my experience'

New Chess.

Where ya been?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/12/22/818252/-The-Bosses-of-the-Senate

[EFerrari]

60. It's stunning to me, anyway.

I never bought the t shirt but was so happy when he was elected.

What has followed has been a series of mostly unnecessary and hamfisted insults to the Democratic wing of the Democratic party.

I hope he gets his bearings although, to be truthful, I've stopped thinking that how we are treated matters very much to people in public office.

[Tesha]

77. They decided we were entirely disposable once we'd done much of the legwork to elect them.

And in 2012, I intend to consider myself well-disposed to return the favor.
At this point, there's no way I can say whether Obama will get my vote or
not, but he can damn well find someone else to do the work of electing him.
Maybe Rahm's friends will do it this time?

Tesha

[marshall]

197. Same theme as the Don't Ask Don't Tell & DOMA debacle

Once the votes were in compromises were made.

[KoKo]

84. Agree on this point: "He didn't need to piss us off so much."

and yes..he didn't need to send Rahm out as an attack dog on Dean and others before to trash any kind of disagreement or questioning, as you say: "He could have taken a more conciliatory tone...But by lying to us and telling us, in effect, to Fuck Off, he dug his own pit on this one.


I always will remember Sen. Shumer during the Campaign asked why Left Dems on the internet were unhappy with some things with Hillary/Obama and how did he feel about the Left being upset...and Schumer smirked and said: "When they Push...we push back harder." He thought that was very cute...as he smirked.

It set the tone of what was to come even before Obama got elected or even if Hillary had won the election.

"When They Push...We Push Back Harder."

Wouldn't we want to hear a Democratic Senator talk that way about the Right Wingers...or what Lieberman, Landrieu, Nelson and Stupak have done to us? Why is it the "Left" that gets the "Push BACK" and not anyone else according to our Dem Leaders? :shrug: Why is the LEFT more a threat than the Right or the DINO DEMS?

[defendandprotect]

188. Reminded me of Nixon's . . . "I am not a crook " . . . statement ...

[ima_sinnic]

70. everybody I know who voted for Obama is either outraged or very cool toward him now

I have faith that, since progressives have now been handed a shit sandwich, after only 1 year, they will use the next 3 years to organize to throw these fuckers out. We're sick of being used the way the RW uses the teabaggers and religious fundamentalists. The fact that the Obama crew didn't wait even a few months before showing its true self shows they're not particularly bright, either. The harder they come, the bigger they fall.

[old mark]

74. See, you are living in interesting times.

Sucks, don't it.


mark

[Vidar]

75. K&R.

[depakid]

78. LBJ faced a primary challenger as did Carter

Clinton & Gore faced strong third party challengers.

Better hope that Republicans come up with a sure loser like Dole next time around, rather than some ostensibly competent and "moderate."

[H2O Man]

85. Clinton almost did.

Dick Gephardt started organizing to challenge him in 1996. He backed out, of course.

[KoKo]

86. I hear what you say...but what kind of "Moderate" could the Repugs ever put out there

that most of US HERE ON this site find Acceptable? I can't think of one. I think there are a few here who might like Evan Bayh because he's handsome and charming...but beyond that....Joe Lieberman? They are Moderate Republicans masking as Dems..but who really could the Repugs throw out to us? I'd be curious if anyone knows.

[depakid]

99. I'm betting on Romney at this point

[Raine]

79. Agree nt

:-(

[gleaner]

83. The opportunities that he wasted ....

and the political currency that he threw away and can never recover are the biggest shame. He is responsible for his own actions and he is old enough to know the meaning of consequences to his actions. He had more choices than many presidents in the form of a mandate and good will of the electorate and he trashed it. Now he has to do the best he can without it.

The difference between him and LBJ? Everyone was angry at LBJ too, but at least he was effective. Ask all of us with medicare and who benefit from the legislation he muscled through. He was wise about political give and take and wily about using his political push. I didn't support his war in Viet Nam and I was not terribly fond of him, but he did a lot even with the anger and disaffection he engendered. Obama does not seem to have that knack. The first thing he did when realized the extent of the backlash against his policies was to say that he wasn't responsible for them. Not a fount of moral courage is he? You have to own your mistakes just like you own your victories.

[KoKo]

87. I'm starting to think he was too young...and really didn't work his way up

through the system from hard knocks enough to know. He's led a fairly charmed life being "international" and with his mother's funding from Ford Foundation and his Father's Harvard Scholarship.

He's kind of chosen compared to most of us...I kinda think. That could lead to a lack of understanding of basic American Life, being that he's so international in his upbringing. We thought that was a Good Thing...and that's why many of us voted for him...but there's a lack of "grounding" there with everyday life that might not work when one becomes President of ALL THE PEOPLE...who might not be so pragmatic as he has learned to be from his background. Just saying...:shrug:

[havocmom]

92. That or he trusts Rahm too much and Rahm surrounds him with assholes

like Rahm fer instance x(

[gleaner]

138. Yeah, I don't appreciate Rahm either ...

But still you listen to advice and then make up your own mind. If a friend told you to jump off a bridge would you do it just because they told you to, or would you try to use your own judgment there? I've had lots of advice but I don't always take it because I know in the end I'm responsible for what I do, no one else. It has got to be that way or there would be no accountability.

[havocmom]

199. True, but in practice, POTUS is rather isolated

the staffers nearest are the filters of much. That is a problem.

Some threads recently bring up LBJ. Similar problem: filters lied.
But POTUS picks the filters, so yeah, ultimately the buck stops in the Oval Office.

I think Obama has recently found out just how little a president can do.

[gleaner]

233. Presidents have a lot of constraints ....

they are bound by a lot of strictures but at the same time the amount of power and prestige they wield is tremendous. It depends on how it is used and how the president directs it toward the people. It can make a huge difference if used constructively.

LBJ took a lot of bad advice, but much of that was his choice. I read a biography because even though I lived through that time I never understood him. His biographer shows a man obsessed with Viet Nam. He had determined that he would not "lose" there no matter what. If advisers disagreed with him, he disregarded them. His tipping point was when his youngest daughter's husband went into the military set for active duty and she went to her Dad in tears and asked him why young men like her husband had to go and face death. He had all of his stock answers but it made him think and back off a bit. He passed the civil rights bill to "give back" and ultimately refused to run again. Partly because the party asked it of him, but he never would have done that before. He was seriously rethinking his position.

A good president is capable of rising above bad advice. He has to. It was Truman who said "The buck stops here." I don't know how wonderful a president he was. My parents liked him because he said whatever he thought and they found that refreshing. But Truman conducted the Korean war which was as biting and damaging as Viet Nam. My husband's father fought at the Choisin Reservoir and came home with PTSD, Malaria and Frostbite. He would never talk about his combat and it was not until after he died that my husband could go through his books and papers and see how he must have suffered.

I know this is a long departure from Obama. I guess it is just a reflection on Presidents and the powers they have over us to use for good or ill. I have appreciated these posts from you. It is good once to discuss Obama and power without being called names or treated like I am an enemy. I hope the rest of your holidays are good ones, whatever you celebrate.;)

[defendandprotect]

191. Come on...did Obama not know Rahm is DLC or what he was all about . . .

Did Obama know nothing about Summers . . . could it be we all here know more

about Summers than Obama does?

What about Obama and his relationship with Goldman Sachs -- does he not know who

they are? Has he not now learned they are going into the insurance business?

Are your saying Obama doesn't understand the Fed or what Bernanke is doing?

But, our Congress does and a large number want Bernanke out --

Maybe they haven't enlightened Obama as to why they are unhappy with Bernanke?

Let's see . . . did obama not know that Baucus was eyebrows high in corporate $$

from the "for profit" health care industry and probably sholdn't be selected to

run health care reform hearings? Was that a surprise to Obama?

Did Obama perchance happen to examine his own corporate $$ list and note he was

high on their contribution list?

Obama early on - pre running for presidency -- made clear that he supported single

payer -- but that first we would have to take back WH, Senate, USHR. Does he not

have a library of videos of his comments?

I think Obama was caught a little short for a better worked out alibi as to how

we ended up with so much garbage rather than true health care reform.

It was a sad reply . . . and it reminded me of Nixon's "I am not a crook" -- !!

[defendandprotect]

192. Right . . . so according to your theory, we've elected a president who put

Rahm in charge of his presidency and is too dumb to know that he's surrounded by

"assholes" . . . ???

Rahm is DLC poison -- he shouldn't have been taken into the White House by Obama --

and we should rid the party of both Rahm and the DLC !!!

[gleaner]

137. It is one thought ....

but JFK came from extreme privilege and he was raised differently than a lot of us, but he had the inner toughness to stand up for himself and his ideas and what he didn't come in knowing about others he took the trouble to learn. I think Obama is lacking a lot more than experience.

[defendandprotect]

189. We are given the leaders the power elite want us to have . . .

Next time, they might give us a woman to betray us -- !!!

[H2O Man]

93. Interesting OP/thread.

I'm not sure that it is possible to make such a comparison, due to the very different circumstances today. Just to name a few, the balance of the federal government is way, way different, due to the imperial presidency. No president, democrat or republican, has done much in terms of willingly giving up that increased power (though in some areas, Jimmy Carter attempted to). Also, the level of pananoia, and, and hate is different today. Our culture is experiencing a level of anomie, unlike anything that Durkheim could have predicted.

How can these dynamics influence 2012? Hard to say. Clinton was the first democrat to be re-elected in a long, long time ..... one of the few in history. I do not think that President Obama can afford to have further splintering of the democratic party. But I am not sure that he has the leadership ability to avoid that taking place.

[KoKo]

94. Agree...hard to know where this will go...

I'm disheartened to see the suffering that's going on from all of us. (the angry, the depressed, the destitute and those who feel so betrayed) That in itself is not a good thing. Something that will go farther than some displeasure with Clinton...because so many Dems didn't really realize what he would become...or what he was. This is different. Internet where information moves faster and there's already a catalog or history that wasn't available to Dems from earlier times.

I really worry about what goes forward. I think it's like nothing we have seen and who knows where it all could go. I try to be optimistic though feeling that the "push back" to Obama is so early he has a chance to understand what is going on out here and might have some ability cut through the people he was surrounded with or, by choice surrounded himself with, and he might begin to have some feel for what Democrats who worked hard for him and Indies who took a chance on him along with some Righties who bucked their close locked friends and families and voted for him who are now all taking the heat for their choice.

It's very hard to take the sneering in the circles I'm with...with almost jeering about him from those who never would have voted for him and were waiting for him to fall. That some of us live in areas where we have been "so far out" being Democrats at all...makes the sneering (when on some issues we can agree with the Right) so disheartening.

When Obama took the issues of what Bush/Cheney and Greenspan did "Off the Table" it hurt us Dems terribly and made us objects of ridicule. One has to live in a Red or Purple State to understand what so may of us had to put up with for years to understand how devastating this is for Dem Party.

I could write more...but it would just be more hurt and speculation. I just think we are at some "crossroads" in America...something we haven't seen...not even during the 60's. This is different.

[DisgustedInMN]

147. I fear you are correct.

I don't want you to be, but it's like a dark storm gathering, just over the horizon.

I also have to add that you've spoken to something I haven't quite been able to put into words, ie:

How to handle the jeering from those who have wanted and worked for Obama's and in a wider sense, the entire Progressive Movement's failure. I was an Obama Delegate, yet I now find myself unable to defend his actions. Perhaps it is because I am more about the Movement and less about any one person. All I know is, what I've seen from the Obama Administration since taking office, has left me disturbed and disillusioned.

[AVID]

95. Thnaks for your perspective, however skewed and biased it is.

If you spend your time running around the left wing blogs, i can see how you get this impression.

Out in the real world where people work 50-60 hours a week and don't spend all day reading tripe like this, the support for President Obama is VERY strong.

You have your way of gathering data - looking at the pseudo research of kos, Arianna's blaggerts, etc.
I work with people - hard working, middle and low income people. They support Obama.

So, enjoy your skewed bloggo world, while Obama works 7 more years - with or without your support.

My advice to you: Pick your most progressive candidate for the 2016 election or run yourself, donate, and walk the streets for him/her. Any money thrown to a challenger in 2012 will be a waste. Save yours too and donate it to some charity.

Merry Christmas!

[ProSense]

96. .

:rofl:

[RainDog]

102. support for Obama is not very strong where I am

and recent polls indicate that 40% of democrats plan to sit out the next election based upon the recent actions of the democrats concerning health care.

...and that includes Obama not fighting for something better, by immediately moving to reward insurance cos rather than provide health care.

I have heard a lot of discontent about Obama for months and months, based upon his continuation of the Bush doctrines.

but these are people who are involved in politics at the local level, who campaign for candidates, who actually serve on city councils, who work to create local communities that provide a decent life for citizens.

FORTY PERCENT of democrats are against the actions the Obama administration has taken, or not, regarding health care. And not just Obama, of course. you can stop trying to pretend this discontent is only here because it obviously is not.

if the bill includes provisions to roll back women's reproductive rights, you can bet that the democrats will find they have challengers and you can bet that women will not find many reasons for vote for democrats.

[HipChick]

103. I guess then they better plan...

to spend 2010-2012 whining on blogs about how nothing gets done..:sarcasm:

[RainDog]

105. people like you make me not want to vote for obama, honestly.

do you have reading comprehension problems?

I live in a liberal town in the midwest. My city was instrumental in getting my state for go for Obama in the election.

if you want to spend your time being pissy on blogs and IGNORING THE RECENT NATIONAL POLLS that indicate dissatisfaction with Obama THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BLOGS - go ahead.

but do me a favor and don't waste my time with your regurgitated b.s.

merry freaking christmas.

the obama supporters on this site are his worst enemies.

[jonnyblitz]

193. she's typical of his hardcore supporters her. I think being

fucking OBNOXIOUS as hell is a prerequisite.

[HipChick]

227. Actually, I'm not hardcore..pretty much Independent...just seeing how easy it is for the Repubs

to take back power...all they have to do is stand back, and watch libs all eat each other..

Until someone can convince me how a leftish progressive candidate can get elected to POTUS in this country, you all look a foolish IMHO..whining on boards/blogs? the other side is organized..all they need to do is wait...

[RainDog]

232. since the majority of Americans poll as more liberal than politicians

...but our goals are thwarted by Senate electoral rules, gerrymandering, etc., I don't see how this is the fault of the left.

the fault is with democrats who do not support the democratic platform.

it's pretty strange to hear that liberals are wrong to expect representation for their votes... that this is what will give elections or legislation to conservatives. the opposite is true. people see no reason to vote for the lesser of two evils when the national democrats ignore the platform that represents the vision of the party.

and dlc dems, etc. who attack liberals are hurting the party as much as those who are pissed off. they are attacking their so-called allies yet expect them to work for elections, donate, etc?

it's bizarro world to blame liberals for expecting the democratic party to work for the good of the people of the nation, not corporations.

the republicans, over the last century, have been the party of corporate interests. until the dlc took control.

[Jim Sagle]

115. Rahm, is that you?

[Bluenorthwest]

155. 50-60 hour work weeks!!?!?!?

Here in my slice of the real world, at least 12% of those wanting jobs have 0-0 hours a week. Many, many more have less than 40. Many of those are at two or three jobs, each part time.
So you have much slander and labeling to hand out, but you sure don't sound like you are in touch with the reality most voters live in. I love that you say you work with people, as if the rest of us work with chimps. How is it that your workplace is 100% for Obama? That seems unlikely in a nation that is about half GOP. They just all support Obama, across the board? None of them have more detailed or specific opinions? No variety? No issues where they diverge from his thinking? Pretty amazing stuff you have there. Very must the opposite of what is happening here, in my district, which went heavily for Obama in primary and in general. If he came here today, he'd be met with large protests. And that is the fact.
I guess it is different where you live. Everyone is employed and working long hours. Just not the case in this state, nor our neighbor states. Good for you! But here, it is not that way. Not even close.

[defendandprotect]

194. ...

:rofl: :rofl:

[Pryderi]

101. ONOZ! Gone is my rainbow-colored ponies and sugar cane bedposts!

[varelse]

104. I can't say that I'm angry with him

I'm more pissed at myself, for ever being taken in.

[scentopine]

107. corporations have invested heavily... they believe we are irrelevant. -nt

[shotten99]

110. It was the the left, not the right that took down LBJ.

We got Nixon as a result in 1968.

We'll get someone much worse (than NIXON!!!) at this rate.

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

[Greyhound]

117. Exactly what more than a few of us have been saying, the tragedy is not another

mediocre Presidency from the Democratic Party, but the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that he didn't even swing at.

Just tragic, pathetic.

[Jester Messiah]

212. Easy to say from where you sit.

And unfair as hell.

[Greyhound]

215. How often has a President swept into power with ~60% of the popular vote

and control of both houses during a crisis, and done nothing but what the perpetrators of crisis wanted him to do for their sole benefit?

Hell yes, it's unfair and the moment is lost. He failed us, the nation, and the world.

[Justitia]

118. Honestly, I'm dazed about WTF is happening w/the administration.

I was a huge supporter & I'm a die hard traditional Democrat.

I will never publicly withdraw my support, but here (DU) & with my closest Dem friends, we are left wondering what the hell changed so fast and radically from the campaign we all supported.

We are no wide-eyed newbies, we are red state Dems who have all been around the bend with loads of candidates and we are amazed at how fast this ship is taking on water.

I hate that this is happening. We are killing our chances of making really good policy. Goodwill is being burned up at warp speed.

Still holding out "hope" for a major turn-around.

[McCamy Taylor]

121. LBJ was actually quite popular. So was the Vietnam War until well into Nixon's first term.

The opposition to LBJ was almost entirely from young people who were being drafted and they did not even have the vote back then. LBJ kept the base happy with such actual progressive legislation as the Voting Rights Act, Civil Rights Act, Medicare.

I think Obama is a lot more like JFK...and his Bay of Pigs is probably coming.

[johnaries]

128. Actually, no. It was LBJ's unpopularity that made him decide not

to run. And Nixon campaigned on ending the Vietnam War. Remember "Peace with Honor"?

[shotten99]

134. Actually, it was McCarthy's strong 2nd place showing

in New Hampshire that convinced him not to run.

McCarthy = Kucinich.

History can and WILL repeat itself.

Nixon brought us Justices like Warren Berger and Rehnquest.

Just think who Palin will bring us...

Be careful what you wish for...

[d_b]

129. Obama was supposed to bring change

We elected a chickenshit.

[Triana]

130. Yeppers. He lost me. n/t

[barbtries]

131. no excuses here,

but with clinton i was pretty much tuned out. i think i would have found plenty to carp about had i been paying attention.

obama has not lost my support. he's disappointed me though. still better than the alternative.

[democrank]

135. K & R

"What a waste of opportunity." Amen.

[thotzRthingz]

140. ANGRY? Justifiably so... no COST CONTAINMENT (i.e., no public option) gives us every reason to be...

but this ain't over. it only takes a few HOUSE votes to KILL THIS ABORTION (being called health care reform... but it is really only a GIFT to the FOR-PROFITS).

see: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7320157

[katkat]

141. not so mad about foreclosure issue

I will give him a temporary pass on the foreclosure issue. Bankers are like greased pigs, it takes awhile to learn how to handle them.

[igfoth]

143. I agree, Obama is done

He is a lame duck, all the GOP has to do is be a united front and block everything Obama and the Dems try to do for now on. The GOP and lobbyists can concentrate on picking off a few Blue Dogs on the votes and Obama gets nothing or the legislation get watered down to being 100% meaningless as we are seeing with the current HC Reform debacle.
It is going to be a long 3 years of disappointment.

Because Obama is basically a lame duck the hateful Pubs will gain control of Congress again and America will be royally screwed.

I am going to use the next 3 years to get my affairs in order and get out of America before it is to late.

I have never thought I would say this but what is the point of living here anymore in a country that no longer is interested in progress nor shares my values.

[LiberalFighter]

148. The internet wasn't around during LBJ and it wasn't a major communication for the people during WJC

If it was I'm sure there would be a lot of harping about LBJ and Vietnam. And likewise, with the blue dress bit and Clinton.

[deutsey]

154. I saw huge signs of frustration and anger back in Sept. or October

The state organizer for Obama had a community meeting here to get from the "grassroots" what we wanted Obama's agenda to be. Or something.

I remember most people at the meeting were furious that the Democrats had allowed the right to define the healthcare issue (i.e., teabaggers, townhall meetings) and were pissed that the Dems seemed so concerned to be "bipartisan". They wanted Obama and the Party to fight back and be more aggressive in their leadership.

I don't think the mood has improved.

[onenote]

156. funny how the polls don't support your memory

And the idea that Obama will be a 'lame duck' in his second year in office is one of the more laughable things I've read all year on DU

[defendandprotect]

158. Obama decided his own future when he signed up with the corporatists . . .

Anything after this is simply closing the barn door after the horses have run off.

They did a deal on us -- and largely if this stands -- they've succeeded in not only

preventing real universal health care from taking hold in America, but in enriching

our corporate enemies. They're set for the next rounds which will be Social Security

and Medicare -- while we are still recovering from the blows, the shock, the betrayal.

This is an overwhelmingly liberal nation . . . the only way for the right wing to rise

and to defeat that reality is by violence, trickery, deception -- including co-opting

our own Democratic Party which began long, long, long ago.

Was Bill Clinton so loyal to liberals/progressives?

How much are we suffering from his reign?

As for LBJ -- he deserved every bit of what was doled out to him -- and more.

Given what we known now about LBJ . . . MORE, MORE, MORE --

[DisgustedInMN]

180. Bingo! (eom)

[judesedit]

176. They should be mad at Congress, not Obama. 235 millionaires in Congress don't care about us

Just their pocketbooks. Many won their positions illegally by lobbyists buying their votes, I'm sure. It's time to get rid of electronic voting machines that are so easily manipulated if we want our votes to count, and monitor OUR elections much more closely. Then we can get some new meat in there. These current sitters are in the pockets of big corporations...oil, pharmaceuticals, insurance, Wall Street, you name it. I say Obama is doing a FANTASTIC job considering what he walked into. If you want to be mad at someone, IT SHOULD BE THE PEOPLE THAT SPENT 8 YEATS GETTING US INTO THIS DISASTROUS MESS! I didn't hear ONE WORD OF DISSENT from Congress as Bush/Cheney and GOP were passing bills in the middle of the night, no dems allowed, signing statements on each, including starting an illegal war WITHOUT including the funding for it in the budget, killing a hundred thousand innocent people, etc. etc. etc. Even after people learned of the Downing Street Memos and what was really going on. We have yet to learn the truth about 9/11. Remember when the Air Force was grounded for some strange reason, the security dogs were not allowed in the buildings for their daily bomb checks. Bushy Boy's brother was majorly involved at a couple of points. Now all of a sudden they have bigs balls. I forget. What was the amount of the surplus Bush started with and gave to himself and the wealthiest Americans over the previous 8 years, along with plenty borrowed from China, and God knows where else? He had no concerns about paying it back. Instead created and left their whole mess for the next guy hoping that would ensure his failure so they could regain power. NOT. Period. GO OBAMA! You still have my support. It's so nice to have an intelligent, caring, FOCUSED, decent president. I can't even imagine where we'd be if McCain/Palin were in there. Look what she did to Alaska, then runs so she can blame others. And the soldiers who served with McCain IN and OUT of Hanao, DID NOT EVEN WANT TO SEE HIM IN CHARGE WITH HIS TRIGGER TEMPER AND SPOILED BRAT TANTRUMS. Wake up and give Obama a chance. It hasn't even been a year. This article was probably written by a right-winger in hopes that stupid Americans will buy into it. If abused and manipulated it was by the previous administration of illegal imposters and their sheeple supporters.

[timeforpeace]

236. No, this is how Bush skated. People WERE mad at Congress and see what happened as a result.

[dcsmart]

177. big list for just 11 months..any proactive suggestions on what

to do would be better than the tears

[ananda]

198. That's because the Imperial President is essentially..

.. corporofascist.

[Cal33]

204. Near the end of Bush's administration, it was generally said

that the next president would need at least 2 to 4 years to clean up the mess that Bush
would be leaving behind. Well, Obama has had only 11 months so far. Give him feed back,
and also give him more time. He is willing and able to learn.

[scentopine]

209. Given how often he is scolding the left and coddling

the right, he seems to have everything he needs to know. This is NOT a man who is interested in learning. He is dismissive of the left and tone deaf. He is much more interested in scolding us for our behavior while getting down on all fours and kissing the ass of his Wall Street Masters.

[nevergiveup]

208. I must live in a different world

Most, if not all, of my liberal and Democratic friends would vote for Obama again but most of them also have a grasp of the complexities of the incredible mess Obama inherited. It is not that there aren't disappointments especially on Afghanistan but I don't really see all the rage. A very liberal friend told me yesterday that although he was disappointed in the health care bill he did understand that it would probably save a few lives and he was astonished that any bill made it through what has become a dysfunctional Senate. There are still many many liberals and Democrats out there with a grasp of the difficulties this president faces.

[Jester Messiah]

210. Opposition is easy. Being in power is not.

Having the presidency entails making important decisions, and that means that people are going to get pissed off. A lot of progressives hated Bill Clinton too, and still do. Still, the President lives in the real world. If he makes his every move to fit an ideology, ANY ideology, he'll be a failure.

I think Obama is a big enough man to accept disappointment, hatred, howls of betrayal... whatever he has to take to accomplish the greatest attainable good. I gave him my vote, so I'll stand by him.

[marshall]

211. My thoroughly Democratic father grew to detest Carter

I remember him ranting about him during his presidency.

Of course now he thinks he's great, and probably doesn't even remember harboring such negative feelings against him.

[liberation]

220. Your father was paying attention to Carter...

... Mr. Carter has been a wonderful ex-president, but as a president he sucked... especially since he is in large part responsible for the shift to the right/conservative spectrum that the Dem party took ever since the late 70s.

In comparison, Mr. Carter now looks good... but probably just because the presidencies we have had ever since have been, for the most part, unmitigated disasters and hubris.

Mr. Obama seems to be a combination of LBJ regarding the war, Carter regarding conservative tendencies, and Clinton with his corporatist stances. But without any of the social conscience of LBJ and the civil rights he helped further, the responsible fiscal and policy stances of Carter, or the economic boom of Clinton.

He gives pretty speeches though, so there is a silver lining there somewhere...

[KoKo]

224. +1....about Carter..he was disappointing..and so much hope was placed in him

at the time. Common Man...peanut farmer...folks figured he was a common man, rural background but still knew how to run a business. His mother "Miss Lillian" and worked for the Peace Corps in her 80's. I actually met her at a whistle stop in CT when she was campaigning for her son. She was delightful. It was disappointing to see Carter get pushed around Bert Lance who funded him was brought down for some bank problem in the first months of the administration and the powers that be started to go after the rest of Carter's Georgia boys. Who knows what Carter could have been if he hadn't been attacked early. They went after Rosalyn for her clothes and made fun of what the DC insiders thought were their country ways. Then the Iran Hostage thing happened and that was the end of him. To tell the truth by the third year I wanted him gone, too. He just seemed overwhelmed. But, how much was his faul and how much was what was done against him is still open to question. Like the hostages being freed after the election or on the day of RR's inaugural. I can't remember at the moment which but it looked like a "set up" to most of us by the Reagan folks.

Anyway, Jimmy Carter has been a great force for good on the international scene, and if we had followed his energy policies this country would be a better place today. Cafe standards for auto-emmissions, energy conservation, energy star appliances, solar panels. All of it. But, Reagan most it out and the rest was barely around by the time Chimpy usurped the Presidency.

[Jamastiene]

214. Mandates

What kills me is that our government is going to give US mandates when they won't even follow the mandate we gave them. President Obama won in a landslide. That was a mandate to govern and influence legislation to the left.

It makes no sense.

This has to be a classic bait and switch. There is no other logical explanation.

[mother earth]

217. We feel betrayed, big moneyed interests own this gov't.

There will be major backlash. We are, quite simply, not being represented.

[BrklynLiberal]

228. How to Push Obama

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x94746

[EFerrari]

231. It's hard to push someone if they won't let you in the room.

[Laelth]

235. k&r for the truth, however depressing. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[ProSense]

239. Democrats are miserable

see


:rofl:

[Kaleva]

242. A poll showing Obama's support amongst Dems being very high was posted here.