I have no problems with the "Kill the Bill" club

[Capt_Nemo]

there is a rational argument for it, although I disagree: this bill is crap but it represents a marginal
improvement over the status quo and killing it would be counterproductive in several ways, but I'm not
going into that discussion now.

What is realy pissing me off is that, inside the "Kill the bill club", a "Kill the administration"
faction is forming and that is stupid, self-defeating and unacceptable:

1. Pretending to "fight corruption" by teaming up with Grover Norquist - involved up to his neck
in the Abramoff case - is an absolute joke.

2. Putting Fanny & Freddy center stage in a supposed "corruption scandal" consolidates the right wing
narrative that they caused the financial crisis by lending to the poor and minorities.
Involving Rahm Emmanuel in this has the added "benefit" of forwarding the right wing talking point
that the Obama WH, and by extension the Democratic Party are a corrupt bunch, which bring us to
point 3.

3. There is a legitimate criticism of the Obama administration to be made of the fact that up to
now they've done nothing to investigate the dealings of the G. W. BUSH WHITE HOUSE, THE MOST
CORRUPT ADMINISTRATION IN RECENT US HISTORY. If Hamsher and her followers were serious
about fighting corruption they would be fighting for the DOJ to open up investigations
on the Bush administration... taking us to point 4.

4. I never liked Rahm Emmanuel, his ideas, or his tactics. I thought he was a bad choice for
chief of staff of the Obama administration. But going after him when none of the criminal
beahaviour of the previous administration has been investigated, much less punished,
would be a travesty of justice and a political disaster for EVERYONE to the left of
Republican Party. Want a permanent Republican majority? Well this is the ticket...

5. It is not clear at all that Obama will be any more compliant to your demands if you're
hellbent on giving him a bloody nose.

6. Blackmailing progressives into unquestioning support for your strategy is just plain wrong.
Why don't you devote your efforts instead to challenge conservative democrats?

7. Flirting with the Teabaggers... well, go singing kumbayah with them and you're lucky if they
don't shoot you dirty hippies in the face...

I could go on, but these are the main reasons why I think Hamsher is leading her followers into
the most stupid and counter-productive political strategy ever concieved in the left...

[JonLP24]

1. I posted this over a year ago

Data prove untrue charges that push for affordable housing caused crisis

WASHINGTON -- As the economy worsens and Election Day approaches, a conservative campaign that blames the global financial crisis on a government push to make housing more affordable to lower-class Americans has taken off on talk radio and e-mail.

Commentators say that's what triggered the stock market meltdown and the freeze on credit. They've specifically targeted the mortgage finance giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which the federal government seized on Sept. 6, contending that lending to poor and minority Americans caused Fannie's and Freddie's financial problems.

<snip>
Federal Reserve Board data show that:

-More than 84 percent of the subprime mortgages in 2006 were issued by private lending institutions.

-Private firms made nearly 83 percent of the subprime loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers that year.

-Only one of the top 25 subprime lenders in 2006 was directly subject to the housing law that's being lambasted by conservative critics.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=3540051

The link at the link has an error likely because it's an old article but it was useful at the time to debunk conservatives who blamed the crisis on poor and minorities which would apply to point #2. K&R

[tbyg52]

2. Yep, Hamsher has lost me at this point. nt

[AllentownJake]

3. On the Hamser/Norquest team up

If their allegations are proved to be false, i.e. no evidence emerges in the coming weeks to back up their assertions, I think that Fire Dog Lake should no longer be allowed to be linked on DU.

I have no love for Rahm, but accusing him of committing fraud is not acceptable unless you can back up that assertion. You do not assail a person's character with allegations without evidence.

I will be more than happy to join with the Cheerleaders on petitioning Skinner for this.

The time to give Obama a bloody nose is in 2012 if a primary challenge is viable, however, people should be free to speak their mind in opposition to policies reasonably.

[enlightenment]

10. I agree, from the perspective of false accusation and smearing.

Not so much about the banning of websites on DU - banning websites from citation is a slippery slope and presumes that DUers' are children who must be protected from 'bad' influences, rather than adults who are capable of some level of intellectual discernment.

I'm also no fan of Rahm and I'm not thrilled with the direction the administration appears to be going - but without proof of their allegations (and proof is hard come by in politics), they are out of line.

[MH1]

24. Agreed.

[TheKentuckian]

4. I'm with you. Even righteous anger can lead to regular insanity

and at some point pragmatic starts looking a lot like spineless and/or full of it.

[KittyWampus]

5. Thank You. Jeez, I have major issues with Obama & Democrats but DAMN PEOPLE

[tbyg52]

6. I see the unreccers are out. Kick. nt

[Capt_Nemo]

8. They're already at work

But I wear their unrecs as a badge of honour. :)

[tbyg52]

12. Down to +4. Kick again. nt

[Echo In Light]

7. #3 speaks volumes as to the true nature and legitimacy of the executive branch

[Edweird]

9. I think this bill is a piece of crap that Reagan would have given a testicle for.

I do not find a leap towards corporatism (fascism?) to be a movement in the right direction. That being said, I have no support for, or alliance with, any of the aforementioned bad actors in your OP. I am perfectly capable of developing my own opinion, and I don't want to get wrapped up in someone else's agenda. I am particularly repelled by the whole 'enemy of my enemy' 'strange bedfellows' nonsense. While I disagree quite strongly with the actions of our administration, I will never refer to them as 'the enemy'. Never would I ever ally myself with a 'teabagger' in opposition. While we may have common ground in the fact that we are unhappy with specific legislation, our reasons for being so are diametrically opposed. I am opposed to corporatism/fascism (ESPECIALLY from a DEM!)- they are opposed to helping anyone at all. Not the least bit compatible.

[DisgustedInMN]

13. Yep...

... what he said!


:applause:

[ProSense]

11. "Putting Fanny & Freddy center stage in a supposed "corruption scandal" consolidates the right wing"

This is what happens when idiots don't pay attention. They continue to embolden the RW.

The RW's attempt to blame CRA for the mortgage crisis is despicable

Their script goes something like this: ACORN, Fannie, and Freddie worked with the Democratic Congress to pressure banks to lend to "risky" borrowers, using the Community Reinvestment Act as their leverage.

[Capt_Nemo]

14. Kick!

'cause I ain't done with fighting stupidity!

[Capt_Nemo]

15. kick

[suzie]

16. Word

[RainDog]

17. Norquist was it for me

tho I had already come to terms with accepting what's there as the best we can do for now.

[Capt_Nemo]

18. Sometimes doing nothing

and waiting for the right time to act is the wise strategy.

But right now I think progressives should start to organize to challenge conservative
Dems in the primaries.

[Capt_Nemo]

19. kick

[EFerrari]

20. I agree with almost all of that with this caveat:

Taking slams from conservative democrats is a lot less upsetting than taking them from this White House and their spokesman week after week. It doesn't make for a very cordial, let alone civil or reasonable conversation.

So, imho, that's why the left is more focused on the administration than on the conservadems (although sometimes these two groups seems almost indistinguishable to me but that's my issue).

[Capt_Nemo]

21. I understand that

but that is why people have to think about the consequences of their actions
before doing something.

That is why Dean went back a little on his stance.
He weighted the pros and the cons.
Because he actualy thinks before acting.
Not the case with Hamsher.

[EFerrari]

22. Whelp, I don't know what she's doing.

And finally, it won't be that important except for all the bandwidth it eats.

[HughMoran]

27. How can you ignore the dozens of posts about what she's doing?

Are you saying that you simply ignore issues that don't align with your view of what's important.

Hmmm, interesting revelation. Too bad you won't see this as you put me on ignore. Truth hurts I guess.

[Cetacea]

23. +!

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RedCloud]

26. He is already calling some people "non-persons". How can we expect better?

[HughMoran]

28. He is so corrupt

yep, he's the epitome of corruption :eyes:

[azmouse]

29. Didn't you get the memo?

He's also a liar for his Wall Street buddies AND most important he's JUST like boosh.

BUT the Hamster... well, she's the very picture of veracity, what with teaming up with Norquist and all. How could you have missed that? :P




:hi:

[HughMoran]

30. Yep. Liar!! DLCer! corporatist! Shill! All things evil!

If someone started talking this shit in my house, I'd escort them to the door.

[azmouse]

31. Oh hell... I'd open a window and throw them out.

I can hardly wait until that is done here on DU.

[Capt_Nemo]

32. kick

[Capt_Nemo]

33. kick