The only way the "left" can defeat the "centrist" corporatists is to take

[mmonk]

them head on when the opportunity presents itself and to shine a light on it. Otherwise, the "left" will be forever identified with its bankrupt policies, it's political distortions, and corruption.

[OHdem10]

1. I agree!!

[themaskedliberal]

2. Taking Back

Good point.

[dkf]

3. So when they say this country is center left or center right that really means corporatist?

I buy that.

[mmonk]

4. Yep, pretty much.

Talking about the center of two opposites is where many corrupt or valueless politicians hide. Something in the center does not dismantle and replace existing structures. True center does not operate on such a trajectory.

[NJmaverick]

5. "the "left" will be forever identified with its bankrupt policies"

Maybe the left should spend more time changing those "bankrupt policies" and less time attacking moderates and left of center Democrats

[mmonk]

7. All the public attacking so far has been by politicians that claim

to be bipartisan and center on what they identify publicly (in front of the media) as the "left". When we fight back, you call it us doing the attacking. Meanwhile, this so called center has been firmly in control of policy since the ascendancy of the Clintons (and thus should accept the blame instead of those that haven't held sway). Otherwise, let's be blunt. Maybe there are two distinct parties inside the Democratic Party with different ideas on what the function of government is.

[amborin]

12. the same "bankrupt" policies that gave the US unions? to name just one accomplishment?

[KharmaTrain]

6. It's Also Winning At The Ballot Box...

That's the keys to the throne. We have many solid Progressives already in the House & Senate, but there's room for more. 5 more Progressive Senators and 15 Representatives (I know, a very tall order) would swing the momentum and power in our direction and open up some doors and break down logjams in others. As we are seeing in the healthcare "debate", when it came down to brass tacks, the votes weren't there. The options are to run away and curse the darkness or to build on what's already there and get a stronger presence.

The problem when you attack the center is you risk in alienating those who hold the balance of power in many elections. The current political system revolves around money and non-stop election cycles. The only way to break that is to elect candidates who will truly reform the system. If one wants reregulation, it also has to be done in the legislative...and having more advocates for reform in key positions will bring change a lot closer.

The game here isn't to destroy capitalism...it can't and won't happen. It's to reign in the excesses...turning the clock back 30 years and then enforcing them. The way to making this happen is the ballot box.

[mmonk]

8. The real problem is the financial meltdown and the breakdown

of the rule of law which has both parties name on it. I have less wealth to give my children as a result of deregulation of the financial markets, neoliberalism, and the banking system while the ideas and stalwart regulations originally imposed by New Deal Democrats is vilified and dismantled by "center" Democrats and Republicans. All this meanwhile, the so called "left" is blamed. It's time to separate the wheat from the chafe and present reality to the public. And finally, why should our arguments be watered down because the name "Democrat" has put us in a position of being hypocrites?

[KharmaTrain]

9. It Also Shows Where The Rubber Hits The Road

I think the real lesson here is no matter what political party...including a third party or fourth or twenty-ninth, the ultimate goal of these organizations is to ensure their longevity and to give their members the maximum benefit. While parties may represent an ideology or belief, in reality, they are vehicles to achieve power, influence and wealth.

In many ways the New Deal was an anomoly...actions taken in times far worse than what we're encountering now. In many ways it's due to New Deal protections that things didn't melt down as bad this time and that there's a social safety net that at provides some relief during these times. And, in some ways, it's this safety net that is prohibiting others from seeing how bad things had gotten and that it can happen again.

Not long ago I saw a chart that showed the standard of living, income and other financial factors involving the middle class has been in steady decline since 1978...that's almost my entire work life. I've seen how industries have "deregulated" themselves into debt or offshored and destroyed the very consumer market they are trying to sell to. Reregulation is just one needed step and one that Congress has the power to do something about but hasn't.

Lastly, I think Progressives need some thicker skins...it's a bloodsport out there and claiming the "higher ground" doesn't work. The keys to the kingdom are votes...plain and simple. Gain control of the power and then you have both the means and motivation to make and enforce change.

[mmonk]

10. I agree.

And some of what you see going on now is the battle to do so.

[ThomThom]

15. yes

yes

[Greyhound]

11. We need a few millionaires with enough sense of right to bankroll

PR for the sheeple.

We are right, we know what works, we need to get through the blockade built to silence us and money is how that is done here.

[mmonk]

13. Yes.

We need a strong counter on our side.

[Greyhound]

14. The fascists have a selection of billionaires to choose from depending on which

flavor of fascist they want to talk to, Mellon-Scaif, Koch, Murdoch, Moon, De Vos, etc.

There is no progressive counter-part.

[ThomThom]

16. so we have to win with ideas

We also must do better at shooting down the rights portrayals of the left. Prove them untrue.

[amborin]

17. k&r

[omega minimo]

18. What "bankrupt policies, political distortions, and corruption"?

[divideetimpera]

19. we will never have a real left in america under the fed govt as it is currently structured

Leftism arises from the masses, and it serves the masses.

The current powerful fed govt was designed to thwart the masses. As long as the fed govt is as powerful as it is, there will be no Left in america.

Leftism can only come about when freed of the fed govt and its federalist republic, strong president, strong checks and balances system with the showstopper Senate with its enlarged voting districts, a senate that controls everything ultimately.

All this talk about fighting the centrists etc is just wind.

Leftist comes from the will of the majority. The will of the majority cannot be expressed under this fed system of govt.