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Why do right wingers always talk about "freedom?"

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glen123098 Donating Member (419 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 02:42 PM
Original message
Why do right wingers always talk about "freedom?"
Edited on Sat Dec-26-09 02:43 PM by glen123098
I've never quite got it. They don't believe in freedom for homosexuals. They don't believe in freedom when it comes to what you do in your bedroom. They don't believe in freedom of reproduction. They don't believe in freedom of what you can put inside your own body such as medical marijuana. So why is it every right wing idiot like Hannity or FreeRepublic always talks about freedom? What do they consider freedom to be?
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Way2go Donating Member (121 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's a simple, effective way to disguise their belief that freedom is

not something that the public at large should be trusted with. By repeatedly talking about it (always within the context of statements condemning certain people/groups/countries that the general public has negative feelings for) while denying the freedoms you mentioned, it causes those being denied freedom to become more accepting of the notion that they don't deserve freedom.
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glen123098 Donating Member (419 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Hmm, that makes since.
I never thought of it in the context freedom can only be for certain groups. That must be their mindset.
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classysassy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
20. Bulleye
you are right on target.
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classysassy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. thats bullseye
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. Because in the historical mouths of Americans, "freedom" is actually just shorthand for....
"Freedom for me! Not for thee!".
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. Freddom to them is a privilege. One to which they are entitled...and, the rest of us?
Not so much.

They've confused freedom with privilege for 200 plus years.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. It is part of the creation myth of America and used as a motto for lower taxes IMHO.
Tying lower taxes to patriotism...a GOP thing.
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angryfirelord Donating Member (248 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
5. Freedom to them
Edited on Sat Dec-26-09 03:13 PM by angryfirelord
isn't the same as freedom to us. They use the words freedom, liberty, and other assortment of goodies to get people to believe that liberals are communists/nazis/fascists or whatever happens to be the political term of the day. They try to stand for freedom because they believe liberal don't.

This is a bit of a problem because most conservatives don't want to (or don't know how to) define their positions. They believe that being gay or smoking pot are moral hazards that must be squashed out by government. They also believe that free and unregulated markets make people free, regardless if the government is involved with personal choices.

But this presents a bit of a paradox for their definitions. By being anti-marijuana and such, they are becoming the very thing the conservatives accuse liberals of. Free markets don't exist, they always become entangled with the government in order to get special benefits. By removing those regulations, they end up making people less economically free since the common man doesn't hold as much political power as a corporation like Wal-Mart.

Why do they talk about freedom? Because if they actually talked about the issues they stood for, they wouldn't be able to support them. It's just simple soundbytes that can be repeated over and over again without using any train of thought.
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glen123098 Donating Member (419 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Great post
I don't know if I can add anything to it. So freedom is just to hide their anti freedom positions? Yeah that sounds like it, because I have never heard a right winger actually talk about actual freedom, except for maybe Penn and Teller.
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JAbuchan08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
25. Good point, especially the part about 'free markets'
They live by the golden-rule, whoever has the gold makes the rules. That is "freedom" for them. They go on and on about free-markets at the same time bashing corporatism not realizing that their lassaiz-faire ideals are what has empowered the corporatists to buy up government, and of course the freedoms to breath clean air and drink clean water are nothing next to the freedom to buy up water and air from the government and pollute to their heart's content.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
8. "Freedom" is a euphemism for "no regulations" when used by the Right.
Sadly those of us that actually do care about our freedom and liberty now get thrown in with those jerks.
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3waygeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
9. You're misunderstanding them...
they're not talking about freedom -- they're talking about freedumb. I.e. the right to be as stupid, mis-informed, and delusional as humanly possible. Beck/Limbaugh/O'Reilly, as living exemplars of freedumb, are of course the role models for the right-wing community.
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Funniest reply yet.
:rofl:
And also quite a bit of truth to that.
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Vehl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. awesome reply!!!!! . nt
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
10. Fascists know they can hide behind 'freedom', 'flag', 'God' as they weasel gullible into giving up
Edited on Sat Dec-26-09 03:18 PM by blm
more of their right to fair compensation and their right to open and accountable government.
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Jenny_92808 Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
11. They only believe in their freedom to...
Impose their beliefs and prejudices to all who live in America.

Sickening....isn't it!
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live love laugh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
12. Because they're nothing but greedy, biggoted hypocrites. nt
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
13. Simple!
They want the freedom to take away the Freedoms of others.

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Lost-in-FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
14. It is a great manipulative tool. Watch the documentary "Why We Fight".
Edited on Sat Dec-26-09 03:51 PM by Lost-in-FL
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9219858826421983682&ei=uXQ2S-WcDaieqAKX1Pw8&q=why+we+fight#

If you have an hour 38 min you can watch it here. The word freedom has its extended uses and the GOP has perfected the art of manipulation.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
17. Simplistic.
There are lots of different kinds of RWers, just like not everybody on the left defines "freedom" the same way.

For some, freedom involves having Congress stipulate buying health insurance. Freedom for them focuses on the right to health care, not being free from government interference. Of course, that freedom comes at the cost of having people who otherwise wouldn't buy insurance being forced to purchase it.

For some, freedom means no warrantless wiretapping of a phone call that involves an American in the US. Freedom is freedom from having the government eavesdrop, even if wiretapping the overseas person might be okay (opinions are divided on that). Freedom for them means being free from government interference, even at the risk of undetected attacks.

For some, freedom means that restaurants can't do certain things, or that smokers can't smoke in their own apts. Freedom means freedom from having to worry about bad food, or the freedom to only choose the kind of things that they like. They want freedom, even though it means others are less free.

For some, freedom means freedom from things like drug tests or vindictive anti-drug laws. They want freedom, even though cannabis--like alchohol--impairs coordination for a full 24 hours after use, so using things like forklifts becomes a bit more dangerous. Freedom is freedom for their actions, even if it increases risk to others.

For yet others, freedom is also freedom from hate speech. I've known more than one self-styled progressive who wanted to have some penalty for offensive speech. Their right to be free from perceived intimidation outweighed the other person's right to speak freely.

Now, all of these freedoms have some price. Some are freedom from government, writ at whatever size you want; some are freedom from other citizens. Freedom always involves not being subject to the whims or vagaries of something else. Freedom from worry, freedom from making bad choices, freedom from the consequences of other people's choices, freedom from government interference or observation. You are not subject to them, they do not coerce or compel you.

Now, some RWers believe in freedom to do what you want in your bedroom. Some don't. Some believe that if you're homosexual you don't have a right to marry--some for reasons of religion or culture or tradition, and they won't want to be forced to change. Some because it would require additional resources to go to gays, and they don't want to pay. Some simply don't want the government to dictate the outcome of something that is moral, religious, or cultural. (That's my wife; she's got no objection to anything here but the government's deciding for everybody.)

Some RWers want freedom from having your views foisted on them. They want to be free from being offended. Others want the freedom to only have people decide from a limited palette of choices. They want freedom from making bad choices. Others want freedom from having the government tell them what to do. They want freedom from government interference and control.

The way I put things just now was intentional. Many liberals/progressives and many conservatives/RWers are absolutely in agreement as to what freedom is. They just want freedom from different things, they want compulsion in different areas. They want the government to leave them alone when they want to be left alone, they want government to be dictatorial when they want to coerce and compel behavior. The difference isn't to be found in views of freedom (well, you can, but you really have to put a mask over the dataset so only some data are available for viewing). The difference isn't even always to be found in goals, because many arch-RWers that I know really don't want people to go hungry or die just because they're poor. Often the difference is found in morality and goals. Quite often, though, it's found elsewhere. But that's a completely different post for a different kind of thread.

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redamanda Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
18. They have this weird thing about Jefferson, too
Yet as they wave that yellow snake flag, they forget how many slaves TJ had, and never freed even after he died.
They also decry taxes, yet I am amazed how many of them I have found work in the PUBLIC sector.

Cheers.
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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. Hey!
Welcome to DU! :hi:

I love it when I get to welcome a FIRST POST!!! :D
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davepc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-26-09 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
19. The Nazis wrote "work makes you free" over the gates to their death camps..
its meaningless.
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 01:20 AM
Response to Original message
22. they're economic morons: the think freedom is what "creates wealth,"
not that it's labor adding value; conservative libertarians believe the economy is solely a mass of individuals, contracting everything on a free market, and that this is the climax of human achievement (Thatcher herself said that "there's no such thing as society")

somewhere in all this "freedom" is lots of shooting, driving fast, no fishing limits, and ramming dynamite into an alligator's mouth because it's "tradition"

their idea of freedom is very childish, with no sense of responsibilities (though of course they graft on conscription and blind obedience: their lack of coherent reasoning, worldview, or morality makes them self-contradictory)
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 01:24 AM
Response to Original message
23. They mean the freedom to oppress anyone who is other than them
I well remember a piece of hate mail my family received from the Minutemen back during the civil rights struggles that stated, "Us patriots are not going to let you take away our freedoms." They are still the same today.
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