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Is Obama Setting Himself Up to be a One Term President Like Jimmy Carter?

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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 01:56 AM
Original message
Is Obama Setting Himself Up to be a One Term President Like Jimmy Carter?
Since the beginning of his presidential campaign, Obama supporters have been touchy about comparisons of their man to former president Jimmy Carter. I am about to stir up the hornets’ nest. Again.

A couple of years ago, I wrote about the similarities between Obama 2008 and the Carter campaign of 1976.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3956832

Like Obama, over three decades later, Carter turned his relative lack of experience into a positive. He promised a presidential term that would be unlike any that came before. He promised honesty. He promised to represent the people. He promised health care reform and tax reform and human rights---

And when Carter failed to keep his promises, the liberal wing of his party chewed him up and spit him back out for Ronald Reagan to trounce in the 1980 election.

From Newsweek 1979, about the schism between Carter and the liberal Democrats (represented by Ted Kennedy)

Austerity, in Washington, remains a relative term: the $531.6 billion Carter budget for fiscal 1980 (page 59) remains $29 billion in the red and would increase spending on the poor by a claimed $4.5 billion—enough, in one aide's wishful view, to quiet the "scream factor" over what got cut. "It is not a punitive budget," the President said in an NBC-TV interview last week.
But it is, in the wintry opening words of his Budget Message to Congress, "lean and austere." Its sacrifices to the war on inflation bloodied the cutting-room floor with lost Federal beneficences—158,000 public-service jobs, 250,000 summer jobs, 25,000 subsidized housing units, $400 million in school lunch subsidies, $600 million in social-security trims and much more. The squeeze, moreover, was only beginning; the President pledged, over the best guesses of his economic brain trust, to bring the budget into de facto balance by fiscal 1981.
The air was smoky with rebuke from the left even before this week's formal unveiling—the more so when word got out that the Pentagon budget would be up nearly 10 per cent, to $125.8 billion, at the expense of domestic spending. Kennedy, the emerging leader of the liberal opposition in Congress, was arming to do battle for national health insurance and against three-Martini lunches. Vernon Jordan of the National Urban League warned sonorously against making blacks and poor people "cannon fodder in the war on inflation." Labor seethed. So did mayors, minorities and organized women. Arthur Schlesinger, Jr., once court historian to the Kennedy's, went so far as to read Carter out of the Democratic Party. "He's a Republican," gruffed Schlesinger. "He has the temperament of a small-business man who happened to become President."


The Whitehouse’s response?

Carter has calculated these risks and accepted them, on the premise that, as one senior political adviser says, "the people support us no matter what the professional liberals say."

http://www.newsweek.com/id/211854

Yeah. Right.

You can read more on the divide between President Jimmy Carter and the liberal Democrats in the article “Four Years Later It’s Jimmy Why?” by Michael Kramer:

http://books.google.com/books?id=V-UCAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA20&lpg=PA20&dq=%22+Carter%27s+First+Year+%22+Assessment&source=bl&ots=Zwjq8ckY-G&sig=WXt_JUtBc8z6up75X_h7pMxiX2M&hl=en&ei=8_E2S9TpLoW1tgew5qSCCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CCIQ6AEwBzgU#v=onepage&q=&f=false

“It began wonderfully…”


Kramer then goes on to describe how Carter alienated women (by failing to provide federal funding for abortion), labor (by cutting the minimum wage increase), mayors (for cutting funding to cities) and the poor (for cuts in social and jobs programs).

I bring this up, because those who are only familiar with Carter’s recent humanitarian work may assume that his was a liberal presidency---and that the nation rejected him in favor of Reagan because his politics were too left wing. This is not true. Carter alienated the traditional Democratic base so much that he had trouble securing his own party nomination in 1980. And if a Democratic Presidential candidate does not emerge from his own primary looking like a winner, he is in real trouble, since the corporate media can be counted on to cut him down another couple of notches before November.

Maybe Carter thought that he could take the liberal Democratic base for granted. Maybe he thought that they had no where else to go and so he courted the middle--- the so called independents. Maybe he thought that people would forget what he said in order to get elected.

Nineteen seventy-six will not be a year of politics as usual. It can be a year of inspiration and hope, and it will be a year of concern, of quiet and sober reassessment of our nation’s character and purpose. It has already been a year when voters have confounded the experts. And I guarantee you that it will be the year when we give the government of this country back to the people of this country.

Jimmy Carter 1976, Democratic Convention.


The base does not forget. The base is organized. It keeps track of what it has done for the candidate and what the candidate delivers in return. If Obama continues to snub gays and women and if he does not keep his promise to labor re: the Employee Free Choice Act, he is going to face some stiff opposition in 2012---

And it will be no one’s fault but his if some Republican gains control of the White House. A Democratic president who can not even mobilize his own base to come out and support him is in big trouble. And, unfortunately, we will be the ones who suffer.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 01:58 AM
Response to Original message
1. Congress will probably pass a version of the "Employee Free Choice Act" in 2010...
Edited on Sun Dec-27-09 01:59 AM by Eric J in MN
...a version which lacks card-check.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 04:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
36. I.E., a version that does nothing.
n/t.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #1
212. Probably not because the Republicans will threaten a bogus filibuster.

And that's usually enough to have the Democratic Senate leadership withdraw the legislation and wave the surrender flag.
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Sultana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 01:58 AM
Response to Original message
2. Base?
You mean a bunch of angry individual being hateful on the net??


Obama has my vote for 2012

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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Unions may not be eager to get-out-the-vote for Democrats in 2010...
...if the health care bill taxes their health insurance plans out-of-existence.

("Cadillac Plans")
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krawhitham Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
100. Unions well not want a repuke, PERIOD
AFL CIO will support him in full force, He has been doing many things behind the scenes that seam small but help unions out greatly

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polpilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #100
127. Obama is toast in 2012. He's given the Repub supporters mounds of cash, alienated the left, middle,
& right, & escalated illegal wars. What campaign fodder for the Repubs.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Obama is doing great with the "base" aside from the fringe screamers on the net
And he does well with them too.
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leeroysphitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #5
70. Keep telling yourself that. n/t
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #70
133. +1 n/t
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #70
137. +1... Tell that to the unions.
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BlueJac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #5
73. wrong
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
95. You are clueless if that's what you think.
Not many Democrats I know are happy with what he has done up to now. The jury is still out and he can redeem himself but as it stands now I would work against him in a Primary situation with all my heart.

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iamjoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #95
111. That's A Little Shortsighted
I can understand, even empathize with the sentiment of wanting to support a real progressive in a primary against an incumbent Democrat. I just don't think it is practical. For one thing, how do we know the candidate who sounds so liberal in the primary really is? Candidates always court the base for the primary and move center for the general election. Next, as disappointed as one may be in Obama, he is still better than a Republican. Do you think a Republican would have repealed the Global Gag Rule or signed the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act? Do you think a Republican would have expanded SCHIP or lifted restrictions on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research? Do you think a Republican would have added two million acres of wilderness, thousands of miles of river and a host of national trails and parks to be under federal protection? Maybe that's not good enough. OK. But the resources we can spend on a campaign (time and money) are limited. So, wouldn't it be better to devote our energy and funds to getting a Republican out rather than replacing a moderate Democrat with a liberal one? Why not devote the time and funds to making sure a liberal wins an open primary rather than trying to take out a moderate incumbent and risking getting some one worse?
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #111
118. Your points are well taken but...
When you add up the good that has been done since Bush left Washington with what we got....we are not looking that different than before.

The HC Bill IMHO is a step backwards

The criminals who left us in this mess have not been investigated.

Gitmo will be open yet another year

We are still in Iraq

We are more deeply entrenched in Afghanistan.

oh.....and id I mention JOBS?

I will not give the current team a pass after this term if things don't turn around.

I will NEVER vote Republican but I might not vote Democratic either if they don't have our back.

The jury is out.
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swilton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #118
152. Things were so bad after eight years of Bush
that a new president should have had to work hard for things not to get better -

Guess Obama was working hard because a lot of things are getting worse.
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digidigido Donating Member (553 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #118
205. and let's not forget the Bush tax cuts that stayed in place another year
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emsimon33 Donating Member (904 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #111
131. Obama just does not have the stomach necessary to be president
and unless he grows on along with a spine, I, too, will work like crazy to get another candidate in 2012 for president. Obama may be moderate on some issues but on the issues that count, he is little better than a Republican but without all the religious rhetoric.

I sat on the stage behind him in Alexandria, VA, and I know what he promised. So far, most of his promises have fared no better than Bush I's "Read my lips" promise and Obama will fare no better than Bush did if he runs for a second term after virtually lying to not only his base but to the American people.
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WorkingClassDemocrat Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #111
156. Everything you say is true
If you don't mind voting for a lying sellout. You live by your principles, I'll live by mine.

I would rather vote for someone that told me he was a crook than someone who would stab me in the back.
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emsimon33 Donating Member (904 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #95
130. Like you, I hope that we can find an excellent candidate to run against him
in the primaries!

Obama is sure vulnerable.
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krawhitham Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #5
102. +9999999999999
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emsimon33 Donating Member (904 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
129. Under what rock have you been hiding?
Obama has not only alienated his base (and the elections in VA--where many of us just stayed home--and NJ are just one example). The only things keeping his ratings from being as low as Bush are the color of his skin and his beautiful family. Once the Blacks desert him, Obama will have ratings as low as Bush. Obama is the antithesis of Bush and in all the wrong ways! I regret all the $$$, time, and energy that I put into electing him. At least if McCain and Palin were in office I wouldn't feel so bad about being so mad at the administration.

What a disappointment Obama is!
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
161. Wake up and smell the toast. nt
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
191. You mean 65%
of the population fringe screamers that want a public option?
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tpsbmam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #5
213. I don't know a person who voted for him
who isn't pissed at him for some of his actions continuing some of Bush's most heinous, anti-American policies; Afghanistan, and now health care and his almost eagerness to work with the conservatives of both parties to the detriment of the bill and, thus, all of us. Most of the people I know are very much moderate to moderate-conservative Democrats -- I'm one of the two who I'd consider real lefties (and I"m much more moderate than many here). If I'm not the base, they most certainly are (and many of them live in the South). They're pissed -- it was usually one issue or the other that started their pique and then they started paying attention and didn't like most of what they were seeing; I heard lots of it because they all call me -- they know I'm usually up for a good political discussion and I pay more attention to what's going on than most of them do. They're pissed.
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lenegal Donating Member (258 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
225. Thank you. I can't agree with you more. I don't read DU any more. No adults here
I go to Daily Kos. Many may not agree with him, but they respect him. This country has been conservative for a long time. This is one of the reasons that Clinton and Obama govern from the center.
We are no where ready for an extreme Liberal country. Just as extreme Conservatism destroyed this country, so will extreme Liberalism.

MODERATION IS THE KEY.....SO MANY POSTS BATTERING OBAMA OVER THE HEAD HERE. STICK ME WITH A FORK. I AM DONE.
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napoleon_in_rags Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #2
12. Same here. I've heard great stuff from the netroots, but the griping with the health bill...
it just doesn't ring with me. I just heard somebody express outrage that a person 150% above the poverty line would be forced to pay 10% of premiums. (based on the chart from the bill here) This is a huge saving with how much I make. But what got to me was the reason for the outrage was that we would be forced to pay a private corporation. Where do they think we buy health insurance from NOW? Or groceries? Or legally mandated auto insurance? Or anything else we buy? And the only reason there is no public option is that there were not ENOUGH democrats in congress, we needed Lieberman. So the solution is to support democrats less???
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emsimon33 Donating Member (904 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
141. What Democrats--oh, you mean DINOs
Perhaps another 4-8 years of Republicans will finally tip the scale and we will get rid of the DLCers and the rest of the Republicans in Democrats' clothing along with the Republicans.

Obama is spineless at best and a craven puppet at worse.
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napoleon_in_rags Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #141
204. Oh, by voting in Republicans we'll get Democrats. I see.
LOL.
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #2
15. No, we love and care about you, that's why we do what we do! nt
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
18. So anger at betrayal is instant marginalization?
Better build those barricades you're manning a wee bit higher.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 03:31 AM
Response to Reply #18
30. If the anger is seen as stemming from a lack of patience
Edited on Sun Dec-27-09 03:33 AM by HughMoran
Yes, it is possible to marginalize oneself if the anger appears to be derived from an unfair assessment of his accomplishments.
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emsimon33 Donating Member (904 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
136. No, base=those of us who spent money we didn't have,
long hours in wet and cold, and our sick leave and vacation time to work for his election. Sure, we may not be in the upper 1%, but our time and efforts should have counted for sometime. All it has counted for so far is to be marginalized.

Want we asked of him (and he promised) is what a majority of the people want. We are not a small huddled mass functioning so far outside the American mainstream that we deserve to be marginalized and despised as the Obama administration characterizes us.

When we stay home, all the money in the world will not buy the election for him. Perhaps, unverified voting may get him in as it did Bush, but he will face a Republican majority in the House and Senate.

Since Obama seems to feel more at home with the far right and the corporatists, then a second term on those terms might be just what he is hankering for.
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WorkingClassDemocrat Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
154. But not mine
So he's dropped to 50% already.
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bkozumplik Donating Member (391 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
209. I dont know about the base
But he had my vote last election and now he does not. If a dem rises to challenge him I'll look at them with keen interest. Otherwise I'm leaving the president vote blank. I dont reward failure. And yes, even if it means putting another fascist in. Time to go nuclear. We cant accept milquetoast quisling democrats. Better to burn the party down around us than become the party of the middle right. F that.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:00 AM
Response to Original message
3. I'm sure some of you hope so.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. I'm a critic of Obama, but I don't want a Republican to win in 2012. NT
NT
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CLANG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
82. Reason and logic? Is that all ya got?
:crazy:
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verdalaven Donating Member (495 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #6
134. I'm with you. Obama 2012
When I read some of these posts, it seems that those who do more than just disagree with the President's actions are trying to foment division among us. Do they want a Republican to win in 2012? I could be wrong, but that is sure what seems to be going on here.
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ekwhite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #134
188. So anyone who disagrees with you is working with the Republicans?
I have never voted for a Republican in my life. I donated hundreds of dollars to the Obama campaign. I don't want a Republican to win in 2012, but I sure don't want another DINO in office either. I had hoped that Obama would live up to some of his campaign rhetoric. So far, he has lavished billions of dollars on his Wall Street buddies, hired Goldman Sachs alumni for high office, and gave us a travesty of a health care bill that is basically a giveaway to the insurance companies. Obama has lost my trust and my good will. If he loses in 2012, it will be his fault, not ours. If the choice is between corporatist candidate A and corporatist candidate B, I will vote third party.
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verdalaven Donating Member (495 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #188
197. Oh brother.
No, I do not believe that anyone who disagrees with me is a Republican. HOwever, you are basically campaigning against our Democratic President who is still in the first year of his presidency. I find that pretty appalling.

None of the people I have voted for have pleased me to perfection. NONE of them kept all their promises, but I am realistic enough to realize that situations change, and unlike the last dingdong we had in the White House, we have someone now who can evolve with problems. I refuse to consider voting for anyone but Obama in 2012 for fear of what might come next if he doesn't win a second term. I still have a filthy taste in my mouth from Bush and I am scared that if too many Dems stand around screaming about how unhappy they are about what Obama is doing, we might actually sway independents and Republicans (who voted for him!) to vote AGAINST him in 2012. And you know what, that will not yield you a perfect liberal Independent President. It will yield us yet another Republican.

And bully for you for never voting for a republican. I am not so perfect or pure that I can make that claim. Please feel free to beat up on me for that if you wish.
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
143. I don't either
But Obama has made himself vulnerable. He's alienated independents, young voters, and liberals/progressive. We need a strong leader, and he is coming up short.
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live love laugh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:01 AM
Response to Original message
7. This must be today's talking point. The minions seem to be spreading the word. nt
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:04 AM
Response to Original message
8. Has Carter ever betrayed the base?
Edited on Sun Dec-27-09 02:05 AM by inna
I think what's happening right now is fairly unprecedented, even compared to Clinton's corporatism.
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Joe Bacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
99. Let me refresh folks about Carter
In 1976, I was a main organizer for Morris Udall's presidential campaign. I remember all too well how the liberal wing or the party was split over Udall, Bayh, Church and Fred Harris. All 4 of those campaigns tore each other apart and let Carter slip by. Of course having Scoop Jackson and Wallace on the right did nothing but help Carter's chances with the right wing of the party. And right in the middle of the campaign, the Supreme Court threw a monkey wrench in, torpedoing the matching funds component of the Campaign reform law. That came during the Massachusetts primary, where George Wallace was actually leading everyone else. After the decision, Labor pulled out all the stops for Scoop Jackson and he barely won.

I remember how Carter spoke out of both sides of his mouth on everything. You name it he was for and against it. The media never called him on that.

What I can never forgive Carter for doing was the fact that he opened the door for the religious right. He kept pushing how he was born again. He went out of his way to bullshit endlessly about Jesus. Everywhere he went, he flaunted the cross on his sleeve. I was flabbergasted to see the Religious Right turn on him. He did everything they wanted and yet Falwell went all over the country lying about how Carter allegedly supported gay rights. Falwell even admitted later that he lied, but he said the ends justified the means. That remark put the last nail in the coffin for my hatred of Christians.

What was amazing was how Carter blew a 35 point lead to a 1 point win over Ford. And at the last minute, a New York judge threw out the McCarthy electoral slate in New York. If those Mc Carthy electors had stayed on the ballot, Ford would have won New York and Carter would have lost.

Right after Carter was elected, he turned his back on labor. Does anyone remember the #1 item on labor's agenda after Carter was elected--Common situs picketing. How that passed the House, but got filibustered to death in the Senate and Carter did nothing.

All through Carter's presidency, he moved further and further to the right. After the New Right came to power with proposition 13 in California, and the first class of Religious nuts locking in with the Republican Party, Carter took that as a signal to move further and further right. He was obsessed with deregulation. Remember the filibuster Howard Metzenbaum tried to fight in the Senate as he tried to torpedo Carter's obsession with deregulating the price of natural gas? Remember how Carter saw nothing wrong with OPEC jacking up the price of oil through the roof in 1979. Do you remember when the price of gasoline doubled in the space of a month? Remember how that triggered massive inflation in 1979?

Then came the biggest blunder when Carter let the Shah come into the US, after David Rockefeller pressured him. Carter could never say No to David Rockefeller. And then when the hostage rescue plan was botched, that was the last straw for me. I decided I'd do whatever it takes to kick Carter's ass out of the White House.

I got to the point that I truly detested him. I started organizing for Teddy Kennedy in Western Pennsylvania. We got our campaign going and I never saw a dirtier campaign than the one Carter ran against Kennedy. All over Western PA, Carter allied with the NRA. We saw bumper stickers pop up saying "Kennedy in 80--A Blond in Every Pond" and "Have You Drowned A Polish Girl Lately?". Carter's people happily passed those stickers out. Then there were the phone calls Carter made about Joan Kennedy's alcoholism. Yeah, Mr. Born Again grinned all through this. I was so glad on Primary Night to see that Teddy beat Carter in Pennsylvania. Even then, the Whore Press spun it as a Carter Victory, they downplayed it all they wanted. I was just amazed at all the hatred the Broders and Cohens poured out on Teddy.

And I remember watching the Sunday Morning gasbags on TV just shine off Reagan. Oh, he has no chance, he's too old. They kept shining him off until it was too late. I still remember Johnny Carson goofing on Reagan and ABC's "Fridays" TV show (which was a lot funnier than Saturday Night Dead at the time) endlessly goofed on Reagan.

Me? I was so fucking pissed off at Carter's dirty campaigning, I went and worked for Anderson. I just assumed the gasbags were right and I wanted to send a message to Carter. I still remember the last week of the 1980 campaign, Carter was up by 5 points. Then the Iranian hostage disaster broke and all of a sudden Reagan was up by 3 then 5 then 7 then 10. And Reagan won by 10 and swept in a Republican Senate with him. I just stared at the TV in disbelief as Mc Govern, Culver, Bayh, and Church all went down to defeat. After that I gave up working political campaigns. In 1984, Glenn's people begged me to work for them, but I told them I gave up.

Obama is making the same mistakes that Carter made. This is 1977 all over again. Obama is moving further and further to the right and he's opening the door for Palin to get in. She is trying to follow Reagan's 1977 playbook, but Jeb Bush is outmaneuvering her behind the scenes. As things currently stand, I will gladly cast a vote for Kucinich, Dean or even Pee Wee Herman instead of Obama in a primary. My fear is that Jeb Bush is just laughing his ass off, he will say he's the savior of the party, put Palin on his ticket and he'll get in

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phasma ex machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #99
108. Very interesting. Thanks for sharing. nt
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Goldstein1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #99
123. Thanks! Good history lesson from the inside
I believe he's going to have problems in the primary.

If he makes it through the primaries, and hasn't changed course in his policies by then, I'll have trouble going the lesser of two evils route in the general election. I won't vote for a Republican, but I may sit it out if I can't bring myself to vote for more of what we're getting.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #99
157. Carter and Brezninski also had the brilliant idea to arm the right wing in Afghanistan in 1979
And although we are right to shit all over Reagan for continuing that policy, Carter is responsible for beginning it.
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unc70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #99
170. Your view of the religous right seems wrong. You weren't in the South, were you?
I find very little similarity between Carter and Obama. You seem to have a very selective memory of the Carter administration. Carter was a mixed legacy, but none of the candidates you apparently supported, certainly not Ted K. could have been elected in 1980. The Helms machine was at its peak and was the power that got Reagan elected and was the watershed of the new RW talking points, the rise of direct mail and talk radio, and the realignment of the parties. Obama is more in the mode of Reagan than of Carter.

Compare the actions of Obama and Carter on their first day(s) in office. What did Obama do that was comparable to Vietnam amnesty? The CIA purges? Appointment of Patt Derian as Underscretary(?) for Human Rights?

Most of the people I encounter who describe Carter as talking out of both sides of his mouth, etc. did not vote for him nor any other Dem since. Those were RW talking points, repeated by the Repubs against each of our candidates since then. Or, they were too young to have known any better.

Whether I agreed with Carter or not, I did not question his own veracity.

Your personal hatred of Christians distorts your perception of how religion was actually being used against Carter by the media, particularly by the MSM. There was a very strong anti-Southern flavor to a lot of the news coverage and the news often over-emphasized Carter's religion. The WH press corps really hated spending time in Plains, GA and enjoyed making fun of the rubes and bumpkins, the Sunday School teacher, the softball games, the rabbit jumping in the boat, etc. Remember how excited the Washington press were at the prospect of Reagan restoring glamour, elegance, and style to the WH.

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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #99
175. Interesting ... THANKS nt
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ekwhite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #99
192. I'm old enough to remember the Carter years also
Carter was my 2nd presidential vote. I voted for Udall in the primaries, and Carter in the main campaign. As a southerner, I liked Carter. I don't believe his fundamentalist Christianity was an act, as you believe. What he has done as an ex-president has convinced me that he is basically a decent man, despite the 1980 campaign. I agree with you wholeheartedly, though, about his big swing to the right, and his waffling on issues. He was pretty incompetent as a president, and a disaster for progressives.

Don't forget that the "Iranian disaster" was manipulated by the Reagan campaign (Iran-Contra anyone?). Also, I don't believe he was responsible for the religious right phenomenon. They gained power when Ronald Reagan was elected. It is telling that they preferred a man who didn't go to church who would do what they asked to an honest fundamentalist (Southern Baptist Sunday School Teacher - that is fundamentalist in my book) who might disagree with them once in a while.

I was never as angry with Carter as I am with Obama. Carter always had the deer in the headlights look to me. The Washington insiders chewed him up and spit him out. Obama knows exactly what he is doing.
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Joe Bacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #192
195. The Religious Right started to come to power in 1978
Carter opened the door and then Falwell, Robertson, Jim Bakker and James Robison and their ilk turned on him in 1977 as they formed the Moral Majority in alliance with the GOP. I still remember 1978 very well when good Democrats like Dick Clark, Tom Mc Intyre, Bill Hathaway, Wendell Anderson, Jim Aborezk and Floyd Haskell lost their Senate seats to newly minted "Moral Majority" stooges such as Roger Jepsen, Gordon Humphrey and their ilk. And I remember all too well how the Moral Majority embraced Proposition 13 in California. These victories opened the door for Reagan to get in.
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #99
215. Ummm...I'm as old as you and Obama is NOT pulling a "Jimmy Carter"
There are no comparisons - period.

....and Obama will be elected to a second term because he is doing what is right for the country on the economy, health care (and it ain't over yet by a long shot) energy policy and foreign policy.

good luck with your Pathetic Pity Party -not

:thumbsdown:
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:06 AM
Response to Original message
9. You make excellent points. And the propaganda machines still refer to Carter as a liberal
which they will do to any Democrat no matter the reality of the policies. So, they enact right wing policies that keep workers poor, do not benefit the poor, and continue to enrich the ruling class and when those policies fail everyone says they failed cause the president was a liberal. Liberalism is discredited without ever having been enacted.

Liberal policies would lift up the working and middle classes and would, therefore, be wildly popular. I do believe Obama and his staff are making the Carter mistake and I am afraid they will have the same results. We're gonna be further down the road of supply side hell and, then, get a Republican president to follow him. How nice it would be to have a real Democrat in office.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:09 AM
Response to Original message
10. No, he's setting himself up to be a two-term Republican president like Clinton.
The corporations know the gift they got with his election. No way they'll let him go with just one term.
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Do you watch any CNBC? They think the man is a socialist.
Talk to any right-wing businessmen, they think he is out to ruin them.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. That's the one-two punch.
Edited on Sun Dec-27-09 02:21 AM by jgraz
Elect a corporatist, then call him a socialist. That way, you can justify pulling the country even further to the right when you elect your next Republican.
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. They are nowhere near that organized.
That's a myth that they are. 95% of the time things are nearly exactly how they look.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. Ever heard of Koch Industries?
"They" are more organized than you can imagine.
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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #25
54. Yep, that's true. If you "doubt", just look at the teabaggers............
...........They look like a bunch of yokels, but were extremely effective with the media and destroying what little chance of a decent health bill. They look (and most are) like a bunch of low IQ fuckheads, but the leadership used them very effectively.
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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #11
53. The people referring to him as a socialist have no fucking idea..........
............what a socialist is. How can these morons refer to him at the same time as a socialist and Hitler (a fascist or Nazi)??? So far I would refer to him as extremely corporate friendly, like a Clinton or Carter. I recently heard on C span Nixon referred to jokingly as the last liberal president and if you stop and think about it it is sarcastically true.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
196. And they thought Clinton was a liberal too.
I prefer not to use their delusions as a point of reference.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #10
65. They'll find a more lucrative republican.
Corporations always want more
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greyghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
150. We have a winner! Obama is Clinton redux, that is all.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:17 AM
Response to Original message
13. No. Some posters here are trying to set him up for that......
But he will come out of it fine, because he will have had 4 years, instead of the less than a year that you have given him thus far.

You are quite the harsh taskmaster....hey?

You weren't that way all the while you were supporting Hillary Clinton, or was that John Edwards, during the primaries. How right were you then? Cause that's how wrong you are now in 2009 in reference to 2012.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #13
22. I hope you're right.
I want every wonderful promise fulfilled.

Your perfect unblemished faith is so pure and unquestioning it reminds me of Republicans.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #13
64. Get Donnie McClurkin to pray us away!
The irony of course is that you use Ted's picture, that is co-opt his image, and of course Ted was the leader of 'us' last time there was a Democratic challenger to a sitting President. For many of us who paid attention to politics before 2000, Ted's run against Jimmy was a hugely definitional moment for Ted and many Democrats. I know you had to replace that other picture due to the war support, but just know that when I see Ted, I see an endorsement of a challenge, for Ted was the challenger. For whom I voted.
And speaking of voting, you have said that before 2000, you did not bother to vote. How right were you then? You neglected to vote against Pete Wilson, how right were you? When you failed to elect a more liberal State House into power in CA, leaving that gridlock we hear about, how right were you then? Was the apathy the right choice?
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #64
227. shhh... their stoooopid is showin'
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #13
74. Exactly, the M$M is trying to set him up for it
But it is 2010, not 1980.
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:21 AM
Response to Original message
16. Carter started the funding of insurgents in Afghanistan at Brzezinski's urging
They drew the USSR into an Afghani "Vietnam", which contributed to the fall of the USSR a decade later. 30 years later, we are still there, and Obama has added 30K troops to our own Afghani Vietnam. It's all way too much deja vu all over again.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:29 AM
Response to Original message
17. One term?
Obama is going to be considered one of the greatest Presidents ever.

Beyond the blogosphere...in fact, beyond a select few blogs, Obama is still highly popular and people believe he's handling the mess handed to him extremely well.



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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #17
56. The proverbial rose colored glasses????????????
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #56
68. No kidding!
:crazy:
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #56
109. Nah, most of DU views things through black colored glasses
There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Obama is more popular in his own party at one year into his term than any president since JFK.

Claims that DUers are allegedly the base of Obama are false on their face. Every piece of evidence demonstrates this.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #56
125. Nope, reality is going to hit some people in the face
and hard.

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snagglepuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:32 AM
Response to Original message
19. Kicked and recommended. Obama would be a fool not to worry. nt
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tblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #19
186. I think Obama is a good man. But the times call for a great man.
And, while I believe he very well could if he chose to, he has not measured up so far. I'm still reserving final judgment, but I am disheartened thus far. What frustrates me is he *could* be as great as he wants to be, but he checks himself constantly.
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snagglepuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #186
222. That he is a good not a great man is well put. I am surprised what
Edited on Mon Dec-28-09 01:17 PM by snagglepuss
appears to be a high level of disengagement, and unwillingness to appear to be engaged in the thick of things.


edit to add comment that I just saw your signature line "from the pissed-wing of the democratic party" That , tblue, has given me a good laugh.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:33 AM
Response to Original message
20. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 03:05 AM
Response to Reply #20
27. the only way he will be re-elected is if the Repuke vote is split ro
I do think that will happen with a 3rd party candidate this time.
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icee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #20
98. I sadly agree with you on this. As soon as centrist Democrats discover
they suddenly have new disguised taxes thanks to Obamacare, many may join the slice of hard-core progressives now steering away from Obama. His best shot is if Palin runs one or two for the Republicans. His worst shot is if the Republicans run Romney. As far as a viable primary challenger to Obama, I really wonder who that would be? It would have to be a careful pick. I don't know that I'll be alive for another Presidential election so it's pretty much academic for me. I really appreciate the honesty of your post. From FISA forward with Obama, I just don't get it...
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Toasterlad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #98
177. Thank You.
I know that most people who read my post will just believe it to be more Obama-bashing for the sake of Obama-bashing, but it's foolish to have a personal bias against any politician.

I do NOT want President Obama to succeed, but I very much wanted CANDIDATE Obama to succeed. In all honesty, I never expected much from him - along with Hillary Clinton, he was clearly the most anti-gay of all the democratic candidates - but I believed that he actually meant SOME of his promises. Sadly, President Obama and Candidate Obama turned out to be night and day. Obama's failure to truly fight for ANY of the positions he campaigned on have definitely alienated me from his presidency, which I did not have high hopes for in any case.

The man has no spine, no convictions, and no integrity. What a sad, sorry excuse for a president he is.
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icee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #177
189. I had more hope than you. The real breaking point for me was
the failure to prosecute the Bush administration for torture. There are circumstances and events you just can't move forward on until they are redressed. And until they are redressed the rest of the world will never look at the US again in quite the same way. But it really can't ever be that way again no matter what... Most of the older ones here know what I mean. Have a nice New Year's Toasterlad. Maybe I'll see you at the revolt that is sure to come. I'll be the old guy with the crossbow.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #189
194. You are right.
Because of Bush the world will never see the U.S.A. the same. We used to be considered the good guys by much of the world. But good guys do not make up reasons to invade a country that is no threat and the world knows it.

And the good guys do not torture for any reason. Unless, that is, they have morphed into the 'not such good guys'.
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tblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #98
199. You better be here!
We need every good Democrat to be around and unite! Take care of yourself, sweetie!

I don't thInk Romney's a credible threat. And Palin, though not a winner, is poison for both the Repubs and the Dems. She's positively toxic, and makes a lot of incendiary, dangerous remarks. We don't want her around in any form.

Gee, wouldn't it be easier if Obama would just act like a fricking progressive? Would unite the party, show the integrity and strength many independants look for, and give voters a clear choice -- instead of a Republucan-lite choice.

I'm finding some peace of mind by imagining Obama as a Republican. More of a Chuck Hagel-type/decent Republican than a Bobby Kennedy or a Paul Wellstone Democrat. That way, everything the President does, doesn't fall so far short of my expectations. Instead I'm just glad it's not George Bush. It keeps me from tearing out my hair anyway.
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:36 AM
Response to Original message
23. I remember Carter fairly well
I was 11 when he was elected and most of what he talked about I agreed with. If memory serves, the whole thing went south based on inflation problems he inherited, in a fairly inflexible or ossified economy. People out of work can be pretty unforgiving, and I remember seeing on the news coverage of, say, 100 new jobs announced at some company in Ohio, and 5000 people coming from all over to line up for interviews. That was all pretty rough, and his practical message, looking at the energy crisis too, that people needed to give up some luxuries and lower their expectations wasn't what many wanted to hear. I think Obama is doing ok that front, or at least there's enough realism to see that he's doing as well as can be expected.

On the DC side was where Carter was ruined, as he went against the grain of long-standing traditions. He had no sympathy toward pet projects and pork, and if he did cut liberal programs that his "base" wanted to keep, he also cut every other thing that the upper tier guys wanted first. I recall the uproar in California, where I lived, when the funding for the next big wave of water projects was ended; nobody had ever said no to many of these guys before.

Anyway, I think it was more the powers-that-be that orchestrated Carter's exit. At the moment I see the opposite problem with Obama in that he seems to ready to capitulate, where Carter stood up and did the right thing, in spite of the consequences. Ironically, the result either way is probably the same, though I'm still holding out hope that Obama will straighten up; he seems like the kind of person who could change course if things became clear enough.

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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #23
45. Thank you for defending President Carter for NOT caving into giving the corporations $ for nothing
the same cannot be said for other recent presidents
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #23
66. 18% inflation and the Iranian hostage crisis--
That's why Carter wasn't re-elected. Now, rumor has it that Reagan engineered the Iranian situation. Carter's failure had nothing to do with him.
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #66
91. It's not a rumor about traitor Reagan making secret deals with Ayatollah Khomeini.
Traitor Reagan was dealing in secret with our sworn enemies even before he was elected. It's documented fact. Big freeper "patriot" Ollie North delivered a birthday cake to the Ayatollah from Reagan. Disgusting.

http://www.gregpalast.com/party-of-god-and-reagan-a-hezbollah-history-lesson/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair
http://greendreams.wordpress.com/2008/01/23/hero-or-traitor-the-reagan-legacy/
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #91
146. +1 nt
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #23
120. Spot on. nt
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apex nerd Donating Member (56 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:39 AM
Response to Original message
24. If the base cuts off its own nose to spite President Obama's face...
(you know, like the base did in 1980...) then that blood will be all over President Obama's hands?

The voter who casts the ballot has the power and the responsibility.

In 2000, members of this base cast ballots for Ralph Nader and then tried to blame that decision on Al Gore.

The base did not forget, I trust, how well that went.

And the base got to enjoy an eight year hangover from that particular electoral beer bong, along with most of the rest of the country. And the planet.

I triple-dog-dare the base to throw the White House to Sarah Palin in 2012 because President Obama didn't properly kiss your ass in 2009.

The assertion that the base does not forget is contradicted by the inconvenient truth of 2001 to 2009.

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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #24
97. Correction: They who rig the elections have the power. n/t
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JoeyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #24
184. Once again it's the fault of liberals for not voting for people that don't represent them.
Edited on Sun Dec-27-09 10:14 PM by JoeyT
What the hell is with that?

You do understand that right wing Democrats demanding liberals vote for other right wing Democrats is the equivalent of a Republican demanding you vote for their guy, right?

Besides, had Gore won, we'd very likely be discussing President Lieberman right now.
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apex nerd Donating Member (56 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 03:33 AM
Response to Reply #184
210. Before we go any deeper down this rabbit hole...
This appears to be going in the direction of defending a vote that won't be cast for three years.

I do understand what a flawed and overextended analogy is.

Any attempt to present any Democratic Presidential Candidate as "right wing" or as an equivalent to a Republican is exactly the problem that is manifesting here.

If you can't see the difference between President Obama and a right wing politician, then how hard do you expect any one to believe you are looking?

And if the reason we endured 8 years of President George W. Bush was to prevent the possibility of a President Lieberman... what the hell kind of bullet dodge was that? President Cheney was a better risk in 2000 than President Lieberman?

My hope is that in three years the DU community will be populated by those who can tell their real enemies from their real friends.

At that point, just vote for who you want and you will do fine. But maybe... just maybe... you give yourself permission to wait until 2012 before you decide for whom you will vote.

The Right has declared the Obama Presidency a failure before it even began. Do not deny them the solitude and isolation they richly deserve and worked so hard to earn.

Just breathe. And give yourselves a break. You don't need to decide today about who doesn't get your vote in 2012. You have enough to worry about in the here and now. 2012 will get here soon enough, and when it does you will be ready for it.

Are you spending as much effort preparing for tomorrow as you seem to be for November 2012?
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krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 03:04 AM
Response to Original message
26. yes
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 03:20 AM
Response to Original message
28. so you are hoping for another Reagan?
Seems to me that a couple other things happened in 1976-1980

1) the M$M spent four years attacking Carter and tearing him down
2) yes, he had trouble securing his nomination - sort of. Kennedy ran against him, and, like Hillary in 2008, refused to give up. However, unlike Hillary, Kennedy refused to graciously concede and work vigorously for Carter's re-election
3) Reagan promised people money if they voted for him. Carter did not so much lose the liberal base as much as he lost the liberal-elites - the union workers, professors, physicians, and other professionals who could see some big $$$$ for themselves in Reagan's promised tax cuts. Their greed trumped their liberal principles.

"And it will be no one’s fault but his if some Republican gains control of the White House. A Democratic president who can not even mobilize his own base to come out and support him is in big trouble. And, unfortunately, we will be the ones who suffer."

Well, I myself, am fully ready to blame the nattering nabobs of negativity on DU, yourself included. Those who are actively trying to discourage Obama's base, for whatever reason. You want to constantly put forward the message that "Obama sucks, Obama sucks, Obama sucks" and then blame Obama, if, for some strange reason a bunch of people happen to believe that Obama sucks.

If you spend four years doing everything you can to tear Obama down, then I think you have sown in the wind, and if you want somebody to blame for the whirlwind then look for a fucking mirror.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 04:01 AM
Response to Reply #28
34. If you think union workers are elites, that you have no clue what liberalism is.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 04:39 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. should we trade insults?
If you think they are not, then you just have no clue.

It does depend on a definition of elite. My Oxford desk dictionary is not very helpful. It says "choice part of a group" and then talks about fonts and stuff. Random House unabridged is a little more helpful. Its second definition says "persons of the highest class".

I was thinking "higher" rather than highest. An elite person would be, in my eyes, somebody who makes more money than most other people. That would mean just about anybody over the median income. If you are at, say 58th percentile, then you do make more money than 57% of the population, which is 'most' people.

Union workers, especially back in the late 1970s before Reagan sorta broke them by firing all those air-traffic controllers, generally make more money and have better benefits than the rest of the working class. So back in 1979, they looked at their income taxes, and they said 'holy crap, I pay a lot of taxes. This Reagan guy is gonna cut this tax bill for me." Unlike a minimum wage worker, they could look at Reaganomics and see a benefit for themself.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 04:51 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. Yes, they thought they were elite. They were mistaken.
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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #34
59. Yep. I'll just agree with your post 100% instead of arguing with.............
.......the previous poster. It must be "1984" when working people are referred to as "elites". I'll tell ya, I don't feel very "elitist".
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #59
101. all working people are not union members
only a select and privileged few.
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phasma ex machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #101
112. Over 60% of Americans work in retail, restaurant, or hotel/motel.
Walmart ranks as the nation's biggest employer.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #101
149. The presence of unions in a field or geographic area benefits most workers whether they are union
members or not. I lived only in 1 city that had any unionized nurses. One hospital in town had unionized nurses. It kept our benefits and wages up, city wide, as the hospitals had to compete to keep from losing all the nurses to the unionized hospital. I have nursed in 4 cities since then, none with any union presence. The difference is profound.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #149
223. maybe in a field but that's probably not 'most' workers
unless it is an 'unskilled' field. I worked in a union plant as a contract janitor and did not benefit from their union. I also worked as a temp at a plant that was thinking about unionizing. Would temps have benefitted from the union? I sorta doubt it.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #223
226. Ok, so let's just keep going as we have been. The busting of the unions and tax cuts for the wealthy
have coincided with workers consistently stagnating and losing ground for 30 years. We could (and likely will) go back to the working conditions we had before the labor movement. People love to talk about how people died to secure our freedom. There was a reason people were willing to lay down their lives for the right to organize, also.
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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #101
164. No shit sherlock. 2/3rds of Americans in 2006 reported incomes.......
........of less than $50,000 per yr. I DID SAY working people, didn't I?
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #164
221. you said working people
and I said union workers.

It was you, Watson, who claimed that I said working people were elites, when what I said was 'union workers'.
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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #221
224. Ok, then what exactly is the monetary difference between the two?
Edited on Mon Dec-28-09 02:20 PM by pattmarty
How you can call unions "elite" is beyond me, UNLESS you are anti union for reasons not acknowledged here. You're playing semantics and you fucking know it.




Edit to add: All working people may not be in unions, but ALL union people are workers.
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #34
140. +1
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #34
147. +1 nt
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #28
67. "Nattering nabobs of negativity"?
You quote Spiro Agnew, in the cause of liberalism? Even Republicans washed their hands of Spiro Agnew.

Except the Pumas, nobody here put forward a message of "Obama sucks," until he started reversing himself on clear promises. If we let him get away with that, we'd deserve what we get.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #67
104. really, because I seem to remember some sort of blow-up
involving the inauguration. Something involving Nick, or Flick, or Bic and war on or war in.

And then there was Geithner and Summers and Daschle and Rahm. His cabinet picks sure sucked didn't they? Then some people thought the stimulus bill suck and so did the compromises that Obama made to get it passed.

There have been a number of people complaining from day one.

As for Spiro gyro, a clever turn of phrase that fits is such irregardless of the politics of the author.
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #67
183. GO PALIN
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suzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #28
84. +1
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pundaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 03:22 AM
Response to Original message
29. I sure hope so.
I think Hillary will probably decide if Obama gets a second term.
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 05:21 AM
Response to Reply #29
43. That is one of the most ridiculous thing I've heard yet. Hillary will probably decide...
JFC. She would be a bigger gift to the rw than she was as a Senator. She lost. And she wouldn't risk the absolute humiliation of being beaten by him twice. Get over it and move on. She has.
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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #29
61. Hillary?????????? After the way Obama has turned out, you think............
..............Hillary would be different? I refer to Obama as a "black" Bill Clinton. All Hillary would be is a "white female" Obama. Look to Feingold, Sanders, Kucinich, possibly a few others may surface before 2012.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #61
81. I don't anticipate a Feingold, Sanders, or Kucinich anytime soon.
Not unless some major and unforeseeable changes happen to the power structures in the U.S. As I have said before, Obama is the furthest-left President we will be allowed to have. So what we get is a string of Reagan-Bush-Palin (God forbid!) types, alternating with Clintons and Obamas, as the country is steered ever further to the right, despite the wishes of the electorate. Obama a socialist! The wingnuts stil think Clinton was a socialist, and think Hillary worships at the tomb of Karl Marx. (Actually, I think she worships with the Family).
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suzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #61
86. Yes of course. Only white males need apply to be Presidnet.
Females and black guys are unacceptable.

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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #86
94. And exactly who the fuck are you? I don't give a shit if someone...............
.............is a green hermaphrodite as long as they represent and stand for the 90% in this country that is and has been getting fucked since Richard Nixon. You don't fucking know a god damn thing about me, so don't TRY to paint me as a racist/misogynist. Jesusfuckingchrist, this board is getting more and more like worldnut daily. You make a logical statement about Obama AND Hillary and you get painted as a racist, woman hating ass hole. All I want for Xmas is SOMEFUCKINGBODY to truly represent me and ALL people like me A(regardless of color or sex). Okay? We clear now???
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suzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #94
211. I long ago became disenchanted with Bill Clinton, yet I still see liberals and
progressives defending him all over the internet. People on this forum still talk about how wonderful the fraud that we know as John Edwards was.

My impression is that Obama has a much shorter timelime for disenchantment because there are many who would feel more comfortable with a white male. I believe that Hillary would have been given the same short limit of patience by many who call themselves "progressives".

If you're not among those, kudos to you.
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pattmarty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #211
214. I AM NOT among those. I would describe myself as an old...........
........."FDR liberal". Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton and now (the way it looks) Obama are all in my opinion "conservative Democrats". I didn't mean to leave out the women I think are real liberals either. I like Barbara Boxer, Jan Schakosky(sic?), Barbara Lee, Nancy Pelosi and another black woman from I believe Houston. 2/3 rds of the people in this country earn under 50K per year. What pisses me off is who the fuck represents us? The "old" Democratic party did. My opinion is we need another President of the caliber of LBJ (without the Viet Nam war) to bring back the middle class and working class. One thing I have learned from the Obama election (I voted for him and HAD great hopes) is that it isn't the "person" we should be looking for BUT the policies. I am 63 yo now and it took me all that time to finally figure that out.
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suzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #214
219. But LBJ wasn't' elected on his own. That kind of master Congressional politician
Edited on Mon Dec-28-09 12:18 PM by suzie
would be hated by most of the "progressive" base.

Look at how people feel about Rahm Emanuel. He's Mr. Nice Guy compared to LBJ.

I don't think you can compare the years after the assassination of JFK and the power that gave LBJ with any other period.

Seems to me that it's not about Clinton, Carter, Obama so much as about the end of the Cold War. During that extended time period, our leaders could say that we had to provide certain benefits to the middle and lower classes to offset the propaganda of the Soviet bloc nations.

Once that threat was gone, there was far less rationale for assisting regular folks.

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LostInAnomie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 03:32 AM
Response to Original message
31. A lot of people on the net, and especially DU, like to kid themselves...
Edited on Sun Dec-27-09 03:33 AM by LostInAnomie
... into thinking they are the totality of the base. It would be pretty funny if it didn't look so childish sometimes.

Obama had HUGE job approval numbers among Democrats, and, despite what many one here would have you believe, he is VERY popular in what is traditionally considered the base.

He'll win 2012 in a walk.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 03:33 AM
Response to Original message
32. 2 months ago I would have laughed at the idea.
Now I'm merely giggling. I still think he'll win rather easily, though I hear grumblings from some people already that I wouldn't have expected. Just anecdotal stuff and nothing even remotely scientific, but people are very angry and frustrated, and Obama may end up being the one who catches the brunt of that whether one feels it's deserved or not.

I personally think that if we see drops in the jobless numbers to any meaningful extent his renomination is a lock.
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 03:42 AM
Response to Original message
33. Well, I voted for Carter in 1980, and I'll vote for Obama in 2012.
Voting for Reagan was hardly an option for me and, though I'm disappointed in Obama's efforts, thus far, to placate everybody, I sure can't imagine that the Republicans could possibly come up with any candidate who would deserve my vote... x(
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 04:14 AM
Response to Original message
35. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 05:17 AM
Response to Reply #35
42. +1
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #35
47. So, you are inferring that a DUer with over 10,000 post who has been here since 2004
and is a member of the DU Activist Corps is a freeper because their viewpoint does not agree with yours? Perhaps you might check a little deeper before you so casually call a DUer out.
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rollingrock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 04:41 AM
Response to Original message
38. Only the kool-aid democrats will vote for him in 2012
Edited on Sun Dec-27-09 04:42 AM by rollingrock
like they voted for Carter in 1980 but lost...the disaster of the Nixon presidency should have guaranteed two terms for Carter, but it didn't. and the disaster of the Bush administration should have guaranteed Obama two terms...but it won't.
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ProudToBeBlueInRhody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #38
83. Really.....
....and who the hell are you voting for?
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #83
139. Clearly the "non-kool-aid drinking" Reagan...
Edited on Sun Dec-27-09 05:17 PM by Fearless
:banghead:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 05:00 AM
Response to Original message
40. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
breadandwine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 05:12 AM
Response to Original message
41. "If you run a Republican against a Republican, the Republican will win every time."
Harry Truman said that. Reagan also said it, but he got it from Truman.





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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:24 AM
Response to Original message
44. the current WH surely doubts they will end up like the shocked Carter Admin. who got beat
by an actor who didn't know a damned thing and was just what I'd refer to as a 'stuffed suit spoutin' tough guy lines' (sounds like Romney!).

They'll have no one to blame but themselves. We support this admin. as a progressive nation - that's how the Dems swept heavily into power. I see too much catering to the other side and working for the millionaires bank accounts to be stabilized. And sorry, it doesn't trickle down...
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #44
173. Right Now We've Got an Inexperienced, too Young and ignorant corporate puppet
who tried spouting "tough guy lines" at the bankers, and got the brushoff.

Obama has blown his political capital--the people who were willing to sacrifice for him have already written him off. He can't get elected on the basis of those who will hold their noses and pull the lever anyway. There aren't enough of those to prevail.
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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 07:01 AM
Response to Original message
46. Carter had problems
Initially his problem was that the northeastern liberal establishment in the Senate did not accept him. Second was that a portion of the Democratic majority in the Senate were "Dixiecrat" segregationists who would turn Republican after Reagan was elected.

Next was the overheated economy resulting from the lifting of Nixon's wage and price controls that resulted in the much discussed "stagflation" where business began to slow because of very high wage inflation. Carter was personally unwilling and perhaps not capable of throwing the country into the sort of recession Reagan intentionally created by pushing the overnight interest rate just shy of 20 percent.

Next was the fratricide of the northeastern liberal establishment backing Ted Kennedy in a losing primary challenge to the convention.

Then there was the treasonous conduct of illicit foriegn policy (guns for hostages negotiations) conducted by Reagan folks with Iran that prevented release of the hostages until he took office. Further, there was the dirty trick the Reaganites pulled off by getting Carter's debate preparation book before the Presidential debate, and then priming the senile old man with one liners to drop on the answers they knew Carter would be delivering.

Very little of this stuff exists now, or will exist before 2012.

Obama will have very little trouble with his "base" three years from now. Virtually none of the stuff people are whining about now will even be on the radar then. Like Clinton did DADT in his first year, you do the stuff that risks turnout of the base in your first year. You then have three years to recover.


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twitomy Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 07:23 AM
Response to Original message
48. The base is irrelevant
If the economy does not rebound and if the unemployment rate does not go down significantly, he will be a one-termer regardless of the base as the swing voters will turn against him. Pocketbook trumps ideology everytime. "Its the economy stupid". As for me, although I would never vote repub, I am witholding my vote for now. Will vote third party or not at all. I lost my job in May; got a new one in October with a significant pay cut. My wife and I are now working longer, and making less, and the rich are still getting richer.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #48
55. It is the economy

and it will get worse in 2010 before it gets better. More businesses will go bankrupt, more banks will fail, more people will lose jobs, and more will see losses in their financial portfolios when the stock market turns downward. Unless Obama comes up with job programs such as FDR's WPA and CCC, I don't see how Obama would be re-elected in 2012. I won't vote Republican, and most likely vote 3rd party.

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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #48
60. how can he lose if the junta puts up another joker like palin? and if its close, it's hacked
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twitomy Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #60
163. The problem with it being "hacked if its close is"
If one is rigging an election, how do you fail with the vote counts? I mean if you are going to
program the Dielbold machine to "add" fake votes, there would be no problem to program it that there will ALWAYS be enough votes added to overturn the true result. Thats why I chuckle when I hear that there was not enough votes "stolen" with the computerized election machines to overcome Obamas votes. Believe me, if you are going to hack the program, there is no problem in overcoming a trillion Obama votes. Its called s.m.o.p: Simple Matter Of Programming.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #48
75. So it's just about you and your wife?
:rofl:

voting third party could get Republicans in power and that might affect your personal circumstances very negatively. So if your vote only reflects satisfaction with your personal circumstances, you might want to rethink that. "Punishing" the Democrats wouldn't necessarily improve your personal circumstances.

But be assured some of us vote on what we think best for the country, realizing that our personal situations are only part of it. I'm sure the rich vote Republican even if they are still rich in 2012.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #75
122. Why should he "take another one for the team"?
I've seen you busy posting something similar all over, about how we shouldn't be looking at what it's doing for us.

How is that supposed to work? Good policies help all of us. Bad policies hurt all of us(except the ones it's supposed to be a handout for). You can't say he's wrong, you know- President Obama has done about nothing to fix the job situation, and without jobs there will not be any kind of meaningful recovery.

Would you be happy to support the President as he continues plowing money into things that would make even a GOPer's black heart smile while you are hurt by what he's not fixing? Wait, forget I said anything.
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twitomy Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #75
162. To a large extant, YES
Edited on Sun Dec-27-09 06:58 PM by twitomy
How often heared here is the lametation of the blue-collars voting "against their interests" by electing Republicans? I agree with that sentiment. I will be voting for me and my families interests. As I see it now, the Democrats are not doing anything that is in our best interest. Perhaps that will change, but for now, why should go "against my interests" by voting for them? I am not falling for the "vote for me or you might get them" argument as I can't discern a difference anymore.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 07:26 AM
Response to Original message
49. It's never up to the puppets, but the handlers, planners and script writers behind the scenes
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Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
50. Despite a change during 'change your screen name week' here,
it's a yes at our house.

We had hope for more of a change than simply the name on the White House mailbox.
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FarLeftFist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
51. Obama has stated himself....
Even if it means being a one-term president I'm determined to reform HC.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #51
58. and perhaps that will be Obama's excuse not to run for re-election

He will not be able to get healthcare reformed to what the people want, so the masses will not re-elect him.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #51
121. He mentioned being a one termer and not running again several times
during the primaries. I think he knew exactly what would be expected of him and how the base would react to that. I seriously doubt that he'll run for a second term.
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
52. a corporate junta own us, they don't care who is in 1600 as long as their cause is advanced
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #52
57. and lobbyists

The lobbyists buy the politicians who enact laws and regulations to keep the status quo of the wealthy and corporations. We no longer have a government of the people, by the people, for the people.

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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
62. if you're not voting for our party's president in 2012, here's a hint
you're not the base, and shouldn't proclaim yourself part of it.
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #62
71. so i guess if ,say, i supported a kucinich primary challenge i would not be in the base
don't fucking tell me who to vote for
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #71
93. you can support whoever you want in a primary
general election time, you can vote for whoever you want to as well, just don't call yourself the base if you stab our party standard bearer in the back.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #62
79. I'm getting ready to proclaim myself an independent...
because of Obama's seeming lack of progressive values.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
63. actually- he seems to be setting himself up to be a one-term president like LBJ.
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icee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #63
103. Yes. That is who I compare him with..............nft
dd
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Cetacea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
69. Perhaps he is more like Clinton. It's way to early to tell, no?
Edited on Sun Dec-27-09 10:45 AM by Cetacea
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EndElectoral Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
72. One term unless Palin runs against him.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
76. Right on target. Carter even ticked off the liberal base by campaigning
against a "do-nothing Congress."

I like Carter, but he capitulated too much to the "center-right." Obama is making the same mistake.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
77. K&R
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MinM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
78. DCI #12 may have aided the premature political demise of POTUS #39
Albeit inadvertently and with the best of intentions. Which had unintended consequences.

Admiral Stansfield Turner, perhaps operating under the mistaken belief that he had a mandate to overhaul the CIA, went full speed ahead Post-Watergate and the Pike/Church Commissions...

JackRiddler wrote:
Indeed, Stansfield Turner fired a reported 800 employees of the CIA's covert action ("Operations") division, in October 1977. Turner's move was probably the decisive step in the consolidation and subsequent dominance of what Trento calls "the Rogue CIA" and what I sometimes refer to as "the Bush mob," also the Enterprise model (privatized CIA) or extended Iran/Contra brotherhood.

Those 800 were fired, but they were not exposed. In an atmosphere of reaction and resentment with regard to the recent cultural rebellions and exposures of CIA crime, and with the late 1970s alliance of neoliberal ideologists and the cultural right wing ramping up to take open power in the imminent "Reagan Revolution," firing the men who were presumably responsible for a long series of assassinations, massacres and coups like "the Bay of Pigs thing," Chile in 1973 and the six-nation Condor atrocity initiative just prior to Carter's election amounted to an invitation and challenge to them, to collectively enter the private sector and reorganize to seize power. As their figurehead they chose Bush, who had just acted as their champion while in office at Langley, and with the October Surprise operation they stormed back into Washington as the hidden rider on the Reagan horse. (Reagan was shot six weeks after his inauguration.)

This was a metastasis of the long-running trend at CIA, which always prided itself on keeping its work hidden and deniable thanks to proprietaries and false-front corporations and contractors for dirty work, and where the operators had always rewarded themselves with side business. Now, however, the bulk of the former covert operations wing had been thrown straight into a new center in the private sector, operating with the same cover as before, understanding themselves as the permanent secret government and with their people or friends in the key positions in official government, but without need to report to the government at all; and with sufficient anger and feelings of betrayal to justify anything they chose to do. (Watch out, America haters and crypto-commies and hippie feminist druggie academics and Soviet-loving liberal reformers, it's payback time!)

The Iran-Contra revelations of the "Enterprise" exposed a small portion of the resulting new culture and metastasized structure of covert power. I believe a mere list of these 800 would turn up a lot of familiar names and tell us much about the history of the last three decades, and no doubt blaze trails to Afghanistan, 9/11 and Iraq. Of course, there's no need to overdo it as something completely new, and of course most of the systemic realities and pressures of capitalist development and of a state in perpetual low-intensity crisis would have been similar without Turner's move, which only catalyzed the particular mob who took over the upper-middle levels of a cryptocracy. This was the same generation that was forged in "the Bay of Pigs thing," but now in the post-Sixties, post-Nixon, post-Carter reaction, a time of consolidation and triumphalism...


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=490878&mesg_id=499734
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phasma ex machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #78
113. Interesting, thanks for sharing. nt
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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
80. The only place where Obama seems to be losing support is on this forum.
But, then again Kucinich would be president if this forum represented the country.

Our president is no Carter, thank G-d.
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suzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #80
87. +500
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impik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #80
138. Hee. And what's really astonishing is the level of delusion
and the confidence they have in their fantasy. These few hundreds people really think that they are the "base".
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ProudToBeBlueInRhody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
85. Obama's base is not left-wing
They love the person, not the politician. They don't really care much what he does, they just like how he looks doing it. Most of them don't follow politics, which is why they won't run out in 2010 to keep the Democrats in the majority. Obama will be another Clinton.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
88. One can hope.
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
89. You and the rest of the trolls hope so.
But hope is not a method.
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
90. Simple answer NO!
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
92. Remember El Salvador
It wasn't Ronald Reagan who got that ball rolling.
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Libertas1776 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
96. Well,
at least Jimmy Carter was honest.
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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
105. Yes he is. Obama will be a one term president. He lost my vote during the
first 25%. Health care was just one, but others were those who put in his cabinet, not closing GITMO, not prosecuting war crimes, not doing something about Visa abuses, etc. All mouth coupled with WEAK and INEFFECTIVE makes for a single term.

I'm in a red state that turned blue in 2008. I'm going to vote in such a way to help it turn back red. Then, the Dems can start thinking about 2016.

Bye-bye, Obama.
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #105
144. You are voting to turn your state red again?
Are you sure about that?
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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #144
220. Depends on Obama. If he continues on the path of no-reform and no
difference, then I want him gone. In the same way that I argued Nancy Pelosi should not have been returned to office due to her abdication of duties (e.g,, impeachment). Had I been one of her constituents, I would not have voted for her. I'm not in her district, so I had no choice. I do, however, have a choice with Obama and I am not pleased with his continuing Bush-era policies along with his selling out the American people to the likes of Goldman.

Politicians have no accountability because they count on partisans returning them to office regardless of how they do in office.

I won't be a part of that anymore. It's time the Democratic Party return to the left and abandon Clinton-style triangulation. This is more important than the winner in 2012, when the choice appears to be an (R) or a DINO.

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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #105
180. good bye.....the fucking bill hasn't even be reconciled yet....
I hope you get what you wish for & more
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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #180
218. Does the bill have a public option? Keep dreaming, Historic NY. Hold on
to every last hope that Obama isn't a sell out.
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #105
182. when was NY a red state?
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #105
202. "I'm going to vote in such a way to help turn it red". So you're voting Republican?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #202
216. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
bajamary Donating Member (427 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
106. Dean/Warren in 2012
I'd like to see Howard Dean and Elizabeth Warren at the Democratic Presidential & VP candidates in 2012.

I will not vote for, work for nor donate to Obama ever again.

I should have known better as I'm from Chicago and I knew Obama was in the inner circles of the Democratic machine. If it walks like a duck...but he knew exactly what to say to get so many fabulous volunteers - myself included :) to dedicate their energy, money and passion toward his election.

Won't Get Fooled Again...okay, at least not by this Corporate politician Obama.



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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #106
181. Goodbye to you too
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nonsequitur Donating Member (88 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
107. Probably but it's only been 11 months. Time will tell but it isn't looking good
right now. Politicians are politicians. They are all in it of the goodies. I don't think any of them care about us. I'm discouraged.
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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
110. He's a great former president, but he did appoint Paul Volcker.
Edited on Sun Dec-27-09 02:17 PM by roamer65
The Fed chairman who singlehandedly destroyed much of America's industrial base.
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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
114. The only thing that will stop Obama's re-election is a party split in 2012.
Edited on Sun Dec-27-09 02:37 PM by roamer65
If the party splits and there is a third party left candidate, then Obama may end up like Taft in 1912. Otherwise, he'll be re-elected as there is no viable Rethug to stand against him. Jeb Bush still has to carry his moron brother's baggage and Palin is not taken seriously by the mainstream. The Rethugs have no Reagan this time around.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #114
168. I think this could happen if he doesn't get "back on track" to the message that elected him..
That's my vibe..anyway.
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PFunk Donating Member (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
115. And this was BEFORE the internet.
Edited on Sun Dec-27-09 02:40 PM by PFunk
It's a new age now. Multiply this ten fold thanks to the internet (and a stronger/biased Main Stream Corporate Media) to organize them. And you can see Obama heading down Carter's path if he doesn't start paying attention to his liberal/progressive base (who are starting to think maybe allowing a repug to win in '12 may be a way of getting the dems to take them seriously).
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
116. The voting machines are under the Control of the Powers that Be
If Obama keeps up his part of the deal, I imagine that the machinery will swing in his favor.

I really think that Palin is just more manufactured chaos. A survey from three months ago showed that only 27% of the 28% of all Americans who are Repugs like her.

There is such a daunting task ahead for any here who want to reform the political process. Even if we found ourselves another William Jennings Bryant, the machinery is not held by the progressive's chosen candidate, but by the Dark Side.

And we know all too well what happens to our candidate -- long before they get to the point of seeking out the Presidency. The planes that have gone down over the last fifteen years tell us about that aspect of the dark side.
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rantormusing Donating Member (210 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
117. The buck stops when it's time for any interests other than Corporate
That's the sense he's left me with, not much different than what's come before. I wouldn't bother comparing him to Carter, where Carter went on to do Habitat for Humanity, peace work, and moments of obscurity. I think Obama is acting like he's shooting for a job in the private sector, let your imagination do the rest. I sound a little bit conspiratorial when i say this, but I'm tired of corporate interests coming first and foremost. It foreshadows fears and distopian futures. It comes down to trust, blind faith is not desired. Obama choose the area of priority, health care and climate, and now it looks like he failed in both arenas.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
119. Obama won'r run for a second term. He's already said "the people will
decide if I RUN for another term" not "The people will decide if I'm GIVEN a second term." There's a reason why he's framed it the way that he has.
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Goldstein1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
124. Maybe Obama, like Carter, will make a better...
ex-president.

+1

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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #124
179. Certainly a richer one.
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
126. Nope.
Unless the Republicans have a secret Ronald Reagan up their sleeves. Who's going to beat him?
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SergeStorms Donating Member (248 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #126
165. It's quite possible.........
that he'll beat himself. A common cry at DU several years ago was "anybody but Bush". We might see that same sentiment replayed in 2012. Another 'dump the incumbent' cry from centrists of both parties? :shrug:

I certainly not seeing the same devotion and enthusiasm for Obama that was seen in 2008. Whether he can regain that momentum in 2012 remains to be seen. If he doesn't, at least to some extent, I can certainly see him being unseated. Americans are a fickle lot.
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #165
187. Bush won twice, despite his relative unpopularity.
And you haven't answered my question: who are the Republicans going to run that will beat Obama? They got nobody.
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emsimon33 Donating Member (904 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
128.  "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
George Santayana.

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impik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
132. You so wish for that, ah? And how self centered you must be
to think that few hundreds members here and on the DK are actually the "base", and the "base" does not forget! How dramatic! And scary too!

Oh well, you may want to check Obama's status among people who voted for him - i.e. "The base" - You'll see that it's much more possible that you're going to suffer another 7 years under this really terrible president... Though i'm sure you rather have Palin. I feel sorry for you. Such bitterness.
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Ysabela Donating Member (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
135. Yes he is. And I'll vote for Dean/Kucinich in 2012 instead of Obama again.
Liars and hypocrites never get my vote a second time, once they've shown their true selves.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
142. AFAIC, he is.
Quick Review:

*WARS fully funded and EXPANDING. Bill sent to our children…...Mission Accomplished !

*Trillion Dollars given to friends and campaign contributors on Wall Street. No Strings Attached...Mission Accomplished!

*Military Spending INCREASED....Mission Accomplished!

*Trillion+ Dollars given to the Health Insurance Industry. Easily Avoidable, symbolic only strings attached....Mission almost Accomplished!

*Force all Americans to buy invisible products from For Profit Corporations who produce nothing tangible and create no wealth.....Mission almost Accomplished!

*Kill the possibility for a REAL "Public Option" or REAL Universal Health Care for at least another generation, and begin the “Entitlement Reform” defunding of Medicare (-$500 Billion)....Mission almost Accomplished!

*Block ANY REAL re-regulation of BIG BANKS and Credit Cards....Mission Accomplished!

*Protect the Bush War Criminals and Torturers from JUSTICE....Mission Accomplished.

*Throw the GBLTs under the bus and expand "faith based" initiatives....Mission Accomplished!

*Reinforce the worst Police State provisions of the Patriot Act....Mission Accomplished!

*Protect the very richest. Tell the Working Class that they CAN WILL compete with 3rd World Slave Labor for their jobs.....Mission Accomplished!

*EFCA (Employee Free Choice Act) killed in the crib....Mission Accomplished!

*More Anti-LABOR "Free Trade"....Mission almost Accomplished!

*Jobless Recovery....Mission Accomplished

*The Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party SHUT OUT of the Obama Administration…...Mission Accomplished!

*Accelerate the destruction of Public Education...Mission Accomplished!

*Bury next generation under such a debt burden that they will never be able to afford any social or economic programs that will benefit their Working Class....Mission Accomplished.

If I had wanted THIS kind of "CHANGE", I would have voted for a Republican.
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Ysabela Donating Member (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #142
145. Excellent list. That's why Obama is never getting my vote again.
Dean/Kucinich 2012!
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #142
151. + 1000
Well said.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #142
158. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ekwhite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #158
201. Don't throw your vote away on a Republican
Vote for a third party whose platform you agree with. If they get enough votes, their platform will be coopted by one of the major parties.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #142
167. I agree. One term and buh bye.
And hello whatever the next bucket of shit delivers. No different from this one.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
148. You know Clinton wasn't very popular after his first year in office
and he managed just fine.
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
153. ...and in any case, what 2013 looks like will be more pertinent,
much more pertinent, than anything we say and think now. If you've followed this stuff awhile, the good feelings of 2008 evaporated as quickly as the current angst may, depending on things beyond our control.

The one reason to gripe and moan and predict dire consequences here is to, hopefully, voice what we want and what we think about what is happening. As long as that is at least known and public, there's hope that the message will be gotten and will make a difference.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #153
169. Amen. The lobbyists...and advisers...who are telling Obama "Move to the right"
could care less whether or not he wins re-election. Axelrod, Emanuel and the rest will make out like bandits...once Obama is out of office. A second Obama term delays the day they can call in the corporate favors they are doing. Most of the corporations whom he is courting would rather see Romney elected in 2012. A right wing Republican will further the cause of corporate fascism more than any Democrat.

So, the rich and powerful who have his ear will give him bad advice. Like "Forget the base. Act like a Republican and everyone will vote for you." Without mentioning that Republicans will turn out to vote for their party nominee in their usual high numbers while alienated Democrats may well tell themselves "The incumbent's got this covered. I'll sit this one out, as a protest vote." The Republican nominee will reach the magical margin of error in the polls which allows an election to be stolen. (Note that nothing is being done to fix our corrupt election system).

Note that Romney even looks like Ronald Reagan. And he was a governor. Better yet, his state already has health care. He is the GOP's wet dream for 2012.

The Bush family can call upon their Bin Laden associates to get their boy, Osama to cook up a foreign policy nightmare which the press will blame on Obama. At this point, I am guessing a take over of the American embassy in Pakistan, since the US will not be able to respond effectively for fear of unleashing that country's nukes. It will easy for David Rockefeller to play bag man, once again, persuading the Pakistani government to do nothing so that Obama can be voted out.

I hope that the people who really care about Obama's re-election (at this point I think this may just be Obama and Michelle) get a clue before it is too late. They need to secure the friends they have, because the right wing mother fuckers and the Gates/Rockefellers/Kochs will turn on them with a fury as 2012 nears.

The average American may not learn from history, but a Harvard law school graduate and his IVY League wife should be able to.
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greengestalt Donating Member (126 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
155. Will the first black president be-
-a "Third Rate Carter"...?

Not knocking Carter, he was an excellent idealistic man who was betrayed by his own party. And he's our best "Ex-President", the others tend to retire, make pandering paid speeches and kick the bucket.


But, perhaps the corporations are now so powerful and influential he'll "Sell out" and just put the blame for Dubya's stuff on the Democrats, then push the thing back for more Republican rape? After all, the corporations create an escalating cycle of debt and only care the next three months profits. Perhaps this time their investors are too greedy and can't wait out for a "Mini-90s" before cheating their way back into power to steal, steal, steal.
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OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
159. No n/t
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
160. Obama has effectively pardoned admitted war criminals who brought this country to its knees;
He has effectively pardoned treasonous acts that brought this country to its knees and robbed this country its credibility and its treasure. The last president who pardoned far less of a criminal of a previous administration was not even a one term president for that very same reason, in that he pardoned the previous president who was a convicted crook.

Carter was, at least in his own mind, a do gooder and not of the phony kind and was not by any stretch, a crook; So, not a good comparison; Obama cannot under the kindest reading be considered a do gooder of any stripe as he has, (except for a few grand standers) passed up every opportunity to be so.

If recent history is any lesson; The future does not augur well for this president.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
166. I was around for Carter...here's my view..
Edited on Sun Dec-27-09 07:44 PM by KoKo
....about Carter..he was disappointing..and so much hope was placed in him

at the time. Common Man...peanut farmer...folks figured he was a common man, rural background but still knew how to run a business. His mother "Mz. Lillian" and worked for the Peace Corps in her 80's. I actually met her at a whistle stop in CT when she was campaigning for her son. She was delightful. It was disappointing to see Carter get pushed around Bert Lance (the GA Banker) who funded him was brought down for some bank problem in the first months of the administration and the powers that be started to go after the rest of Carter's "Georgia Boys." Who knows what Carter could have been if he hadn't been attacked early. They went after Rosalyn for her clothes and made fun of what the DC insiders thought were their "Country Ways." Then, the Iran Hostage thing happened and that was the end of him. To tell the truth by the third year I wanted him gone, too. He just seemed overwhelmed. But, how much was his fault and how much was what was done against him is still open to question. Like the hostages being freed after the election or on the day of RR's inaugural. I can't remember at the moment which but it looked like a "set up" to most of us by the Reagan folks.

Anyway, Jimmy Carter has been a great force for good on the international scene, and if we had followed his energy policies this country would be a better place today. Cafe standards for auto-emmissions, energy conservation, energy star appliances, solar panels. All of it. But, Reagan most it out and the rest was barely around by the time Chimpy usurped the Presidency.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
171. Several Points of Disagreement With this Post
1. The people giving Carter a hard time, ultimately chewing him up and spitting him out, were NOT "professional liberals" but precursors to the DLC. They were a bunch of prima donnas led by Ted Kennedy in his delusional days, incensed that this outsider had swept the national imagination. They were "professional politicians" already in the pay of special corporate interests. And they were vicious, too. The GOP was ready to make a comback from Watergate at this point, too, currying favor Right AND Left. Arlen Spector comes to mind...the man who would be trying to straddle the great divide between parties, rather like Lieberman does, with just as little success. And then there was Gingrich, who has his own special circle of hell reserved...

2. It did not help that Carter was surrounded by so many cronies who exploited his power for their own gain. Bert Lance comes to mind, but there were others, including his brother, and even Miss Lillian.

3. Carter was trying to have it both ways: being liberal, but with a conservative bent, due to his religious scruples--not ethical scruples, but religious, and there is a difference. This confused, frustrated, and ultimately infuriated the grassroots. His attitude towards modern women was especially galling. When Carter cut the jobs, welfare and healthcare budgets, he cut women and their children. Women don't forgive. Politicians have got to start coming to grips with that reality. We outnumber men and we do stick together a lot more than any male subgroups.

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the hawk Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #171
185. several points
I have looked incompetence in the eye - and it is Obama.
I hate to relive the moment Pres. Carter asked me to just put a sweater on.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #185
193. um
did you forget bush? the most incompetent piece of shit ever to inhabit the White House?
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gorfle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
172. I believe he is doomed in 2012.
In my opinion, President Obama has not, and will not in time for the election, deliver the hope and change that we who swept him into office expected. Health care reform, the major event of his presidency so far, has turned out to be a disaster.

In fact, by effectively putting his stamp of approval on Bush-era tactics like extraordinary rendition, declaring anyone to be an enemy combatant, and domestic surveillance , he has incensed portions of his base.

So he has an extremely disillusioned based.

And of course his opposition has been motivated from day one.

I'd say he's in for a very rough road.

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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
174. Nope.
:thumbsdown:
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
176. Unfortunately yes if he doesn't do something
within the next year to turn it around.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
178. In answer to the OP's question: Yep.
Although I'm certain he doesn't think so. The stoopid GOPers have only ONE RESPONSE and that is to try and turn back the hands of time.

So Obama is positioning himself to be the "savior of what we've gained" (whatever that is besides having a black President for the 1st time) in 2012. He hopes to gain our vote as a way of turning back the GOP racist-ignorance-mutant backlash. Now these are the people who have no agenda other than to shoot things and buy pickup trucks. All the while complaining about Detroit. They're the ones who want to dismantle what Obama's building. Like stopping him from saving the auto companies so that they can't build anymore pickup trucks for them to drive. Makes perfect sense, right? Makes the same kind of sense as them telling the government to stay out of their Medicare Program.

Problem is: most people on either side knows what the hell he is building. Because I don't think he does either. For example: What's in that healthcare bill, eh? Anybody know? The reality is this: Our whole system of governance has always been held captive by the rich. But the difference is that now they don't even bother to cover it up. They're all whores, we know they're whores and they know that we know they're all whores. What's the diff?

- I'm afraid that the only way we'll ever be able to get our country back now, is to follow the French example.

K&R

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Thickasabrick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #178
190. Ditto....what he said. nt
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gopwacker_455 Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
198. most definitely
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Lord Helmet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-27-09 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
200. Horseshit.
You never accepted him winning the damn primary, but by all means keep banging your head against the wall.
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AllyCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
203. I was too young to understand Carter, but know him now, and like him
You bring up some interesting points and bits of history I did not know.

However, at least the man was peaceable and I think that angered the corporate military machine. The voters certainly had a lot to do with it, but now that I watch how the corpofascists run everything, I have no doubt they "made it so" then.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
206. well since so many of you are so sure of yourselves 3 years out,
Edited on Mon Dec-28-09 02:34 AM by FrenchieCat
let me just say that with this kind of mistreatment,
filled with disrespect and denigration,
of the first African American President,
before his first year is even up,
don't look for the Black Vote in 2012,
Cause that ain't gonna be happening
so get fucking ready to get your ass kicked from now on,
till for fucking ever.

Guess we were shown that a Black Man can be elected as President,
but he won't be allowed to govern, unless he takes his instructions
precisely as ordered by those who believe they "own" him;
his superiors, or so they think.
But the beauty of it all is that
Black folks can wait, cause that's all we know,
so we'll be fine.

At least, y'all can say "told you so".
But after net neutrality and everything else is gone,
you can scratch your collective asses and try to figure out
what happened, although you might not be able to say much on a forum.


Till then though....

As such, there is a need to set the record straight. What most impresses me is the fact that Obama has accomplished so much not from a heavy-handed or top-down approach but from a style that has institutionalized efforts to reach across the aisle, encourage vigorous debate, and utilize town halls and panels of experts in the policy-making process. Beyond the accomplishments, the process is good for democracy and our democratic processes have been battered and bruised in recent years.
Let me know if I missed anything in the list (surely I did).
Robert

Ordered all federal agencies to undertake a study and make recommendations for ways to cut spending
Ordered a review of all federal operations to identify and cut wasteful spending and practices
Instituted enforcement for equal pay for women
Beginning the withdrawal of US troops from Iraq
Families of fallen soldiers have expenses covered to be on hand when the body arrives at Dover AFB
Ended media blackout on war casualties; reporting full information
Ended media blackout on covering the return of fallen soldiers to Dover AFB; the media is now permitted to do so pending adherence to respectful rules and approval of fallen soldier's family
The White House and federal government are respecting the Freedom of Information Act
Instructed all federal agencies to promote openness and transparency as much as possible
Limits on lobbyist's access to the White House
Limits on White House aides working for lobbyists after their tenure in the administration
Ended the previous stop-loss policy that kept soldiers in Iraq/Afghanistan longer than their enlistment date
Phasing out the expensive F-22 war plane and other outdated weapons systems, which weren't even used or needed in Iraq/Afghanistan
Removed restrictions on embryonic stem-cell research
Federal support for stem-cell and new biomedical research
New federal funding for science and research labs
States are permitted to enact federal fuel efficiency standards above federal standards
Increased infrastructure spending (roads, bridges, power plants) after years of neglect
Funds for high-speed, broadband Internet access to K-12 schools
New funds for school construction
The prison at Guantanamo Bay is being phased out
US Auto industry rescue plan
Housing rescue plan
$789 billion economic stimulus plan
The public can meet with federal housing insurers to refinance (the new plan can be completed in one day) a mortgage if they are having trouble paying
US financial and banking rescue plan
The secret detention facilities in Eastern Europe and elsewhere are being closed
Ended the previous policy; the US now has a no torture policy and is in compliance with the Geneva Convention standards
Better body armor is now being provided to our troops
The missile defense program is being cut by $1.4 billion in 2010
Restarted the nuclear nonproliferation talks and building back up the nuclear inspection infrastructure/protocols
Reengaged in the treaties/agreements to protect the Antarctic
Reengaged in the agreements/talks on global warming and greenhouse gas emissions
Visited more countries and met with more world leaders than any president in his first six months in office
Successful release of US captain held by Somali pirates; authorized the SEALS to do their job
US Navy increasing patrols off Somali coast
Attractive tax write-offs for those who buy hybrid automobiles
Cash for clunkers program offers vouchers to trade in fuel inefficient, polluting old cars for new cars; stimulated auto sales
Announced plans to purchase fuel efficient American-made fleet for the federal government
Expanded the SCHIP program to cover health care for 4 million more children
Signed national service legislation; expanded national youth service program
Instituted a new policy on Cuba, allowing Cuban families to return home to visit loved ones
Ended the previous policy of not regulating and labeling carbon dioxide emissions
Expanding vaccination programs
Immediate and efficient response to the floods in North Dakota and other natural disasters
Closed offshore tax safe havens
Negotiated deal with Swiss banks to permit US government to gain access to records of tax evaders and criminals
Ended the previous policy of offering tax benefits to corporations who outsource American jobs; the new policy is to promote in-sourcing to bring jobs back
Ended the previous practice of protecting credit card companies; in place of it are new consumer protections from credit card industry's predatory practices
Energy producing plants must begin preparing to produce 15% of their energy from renewable sources
Lower drug costs for seniors
Ended the previous practice of forbidding Medicare from negotiating with drug manufacturers for cheaper drugs; the federal government is now realizing hundreds of millions in savings
Increasing pay and benefits for military personnel
Improved housing for military personnel
Initiating a new policy to promote federal hiring of military spouses
Improved conditions at Walter Reed Military Hospital and other military hospitals
Increasing student loans
Increasing opportunities in AmeriCorps program
Sent envoys to Middle East and other parts of the world that had been neglected for years; reengaging in multilateral and bilateral talks and diplomacy
Established a new cyber security office
Beginning the process of reforming and restructuring the military 20 years after the Cold War to a more modern fighting force; this includes new procurement policies, increasing size of military, new technology and cyber units and operations, etc.
Ended previous policy of awarding no-bid defense contracts
Ordered a review of hurricane and natural disaster preparedness
Established a National Performance Officer charged with saving the federal government money and making federal operations more efficient
Students struggling to make college loan payments can have their loans refinanced
Improving benefits for veterans
Many more press conferences and town halls and much more media access than previous administration
Instituted a new focus on mortgage fraud
The FDA is now regulating tobacco
Ended previous policy of cutting the FDA and circumventing FDA rules
Ended previous practice of having White House aides rewrite scientific and environmental rules, regulations, and reports
Authorized discussions with North Korea and private mission by Pres. Bill Clinton to secure the release of two Americans held in prisons
Authorized discussions with Myanmar and mission by Sen. Jim Web to secure the release of an American held captive
Making more loans available to small businesses
Established independent commission to make recommendations on slowing the costs of Medicare
Appointment of first Latina to the Supreme Court
Authorized construction/opening of additional health centers to care for veterans
Limited salaries of senior White House aides; cut to $100,000
Renewed loan guarantees for Israel
Changed the failing/status quo military command in Afghanistan
Deployed additional troops to Afghanistan
New Afghan War policy that limits aerial bombing and prioritizes aid, development of infrastructure, diplomacy, and good government practices by Afghans
Announced the long-term development of a national energy grid with renewable sources and cleaner, efficient energy production
Returned money authorized for refurbishment of White House offices and private living quarters
Paid for redecoration of White House living quarters out of his own pocket
Held first Seder in White House
Attempting to reform the nation's healthcare system which is the most expensive in the world yet leaves almost 50 million without health insurance and millions more under insured
Has put the ball in play for comprehensive immigration reform
Has announced his intention to push for energy reform
Has announced his intention to push for education reform

by
Robert P. Watson, Ph.D.Coordinator of American Studies
Lynn University
http://theragblog.blogspot.com/2009/11/what-obama-has-done-right-list-of-90.html



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scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 02:12 AM
Response to Original message
207. Yes - but maybe for different reasons
Obama is certainly giving liberals a big fuck you and treats us like the enemy with a terrible and contagious disease. To make up for that, he is also investing heavily in "new" democrats and old republicans. That is clear from his ongoing stroking and cuddling and courtship with them.

I think that as soon as a charismatic republican comes along who isn't a complete lobotomy, all those new democrats and old republicans are going to leave him at the altar.

Its lose/lose for liberals, however. As a democrat in Texas, its always like throwing my vote away every time I go to the polls. With the new democrats its now twice as hard to go to the polls. I'll be writing in or voting for a third party.

Needless to say, I won't be investing any money or time in the "new" democrats this time around. Every trillion dollars we spend on Wall Street bonus money and our 10 years war in Asia, I can't help but think how things could have been so much better and different if we could have someone strong enough to flush Wall Street out of Washington and take over the banks, chop off a few heads and put ten thousand Wall Street fucks out of work instead of a ten million other Americans. Instead we got Tiny Tim.

But here we are, Wall Street with record bonuses and a new war in Afghanistan and tough talk to liberals (you know those of us on the "left") to get on board or else. Or else what- you are going to stop representing us? LOL!

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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 02:21 AM
Response to Original message
208. K&R! Thank you for pointing this out !! //nt
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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
217. Will you be posting the winning lottery numbers soon?
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Krashkopf Donating Member (965 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
228. K & R
Alienating your base is never a good idea. Rahm, are you listening?
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