how obama can get back in good graces with liberals:

[unblock]

i'll presume that the health insurance reform bill becomes law in pretty much the senate bill form (a likely outcome as there is only a tiny amount of negotiating room left on the senate side).

once that's done, obama can -- first, almost immediately after signing and a second time during the primaries -- introduce bills to start tinkering with the law he signed to make it more liberal. he can make plenty of speeches touting the advantages of the law that passed and then say that we have to go further and extend health insurance coverage to everybody, that we have to have price controls of some sort, a public option, or even medicare for everyone.

he can do this because once the law passes he no longer has forge a 60-vote majority in the senate, he no longer has to deal with the highly focused lobbying of the insurance companies. he then is dealing with the actual voters, who are clearly more liberal-minded than that 60th senator.

and, cynically, he can fail.

but he can show he's on our side.

yes, we can certainly be disappointed that he wasn't able to deliver everything on the first go-round, but we can also work to deliver HIM a more liberal senate so we can IMPROVE the bill down the road.

[Le Taz Hot]

He'd need to do a LOT more than that.

Like exiting from BOTH illegal, immoral wars.

Like stopping torture.

Like removing the Patriot Act.

Like firing Rahm Emmanuel, Summers & Geitner.

Like prosecuting the Bush War Criminals.

Like reversing DOMA & DADT.

Those would be a START.

[Mari333]

3. amen to that

[jonnyblitz]

6. I am glad people realize torture is continuing under Obama

because his apologists claim he stopped it. Jeremy Scahill and others beg differ.

[unblock]

10. i was talking just health care, but same logic goes for other issues

except for things that are strictly within his control, such as firing rahm, he can make very public efforts to tinker with other laws as well.

the point is that what he can say when he's campaigning and appealing to the base is not the same thing as what he accomplishes when he is trying to get the vote of the 60th senator.

[Le Taz Hot]

14. And my point is that there is absolutely

NO movement on any of the base's most dire issues -- some of which I named in my original response. I mean none. Nothing but capitulation and no sign of anything BUT capitulation of the status quo. I expected it from George Bush. I am sicked by it from Obama as he squandered a GOLDEN opportunity.

[unblock]

18. i agree, and i'm very disappointed as well, but what are we to do?

if obama calls for liberal votes, i'll do my best to give him a more liberal senate.

here in ct-4, we just put in jim himes, who is good and about as liberal as we can hope for in this very mixed district.
our senators are dodd and lieberman, and you can bet i'll do what i can to get lieberman replaced with a real democrat when he's up in 2012.


the bottom line is that as long as the status quo controls congress, there's not as much room for the white house to get its way. that even goes for some things that are largely executive branch decisions, such as military issues. yes, obama could shut down the wars, but congress wouldn't stand for it given the sick control the military contractor business has over congress.

[Le Taz Hot]

19. The status quo will continue to control Congress and the WH,

regardless of party and I refuse to participate in the capitulation.

[live love laugh]

29. Where were you when Bush CREATED the shit you want Obama to fix yesterday? nt

[yourout]

1. Obama's problem so far is not winning or losing it's the perceived lack of fighting for whats right.

He has showed zero backbone.

[vi5]

8. Thank you....

I don't know why people have such a hard time believing this is the case. There are plenty of us that are totally pragmatic and realize that it's an uphill battle and that there's little that can be done (as so many on here love to put it) by Obama to LEGALLY FORCE Senators to vote his way.

But it was the seeming immediate concession and very hands off approach that bothers many of us.

And what's even more laughable is that people defend this by saying that if he had he would have "scared people off" or expended too much political capital. As if that's NOT a sign or act of weekness.

And I'm sorry but if you have to convince anywhere from 30-50% of the people on a hardcore cable news political junkie liberal democratic sympathetic message board that "no, really he did actually fight you see on this date he said this...and then 2 months later he said this" then you are going to be shit out of luck when it comes to trying to explain and convince people who aren't perpetually tuned in to political news.

[pnorman]

2. "There's not a dime's worth of difference between Obama and Lieberman!"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7268146

[Joe Chi Minh]

4. He sounds a lot more intelligent, but unfortunately for the people, that's

a liability, since that intelligence is evidently being placed at the service of known malefactors. Whatever happened to Mr Nice-Guy?

[pnorman]

16. Perhaps you didn't read that entire thread thoroughly.

n/t

[Joe Chi Minh]

5. Subject, of course, to the approval of the, er.... shadow election commission.

[rateyes]

7. Now, THAT's funny.

:rofl:

[unblock]

12. no, it's very cynical, actually.

and i very much predict he'll do something quite like this to "shore up his base" when HE needs US -- not when WE need HIM.

[rateyes]

13. I'm sure.

But, that campaign ad won't get my vote. I'm finished with my vote being taken for granted because I'm a progressive. If we don't "fix" the bill before it becomes law, it won't be fixed.

[Goldstein1984]

9. A subject worthy of discussion

What Obama can do to get Liberals back doesn't seem like a topic that should draw any unrecs from either the loyalist or the disappointed and disaffected crowds.

The Liberal Left, both on and off DU, are drifting away. They are needed to win in 2010 and 2012. This is too important a subject to bury with unrecs.

My two cents worth: He needs to remember his campaign promises, and he needs to distance himself as far as possible from anything stinking of Bush/Cheney.

[mmonk]

11. I don't dislike him. But I would be happy with him if he would buck the trend

and cease the influence of the DLC that grabbed power and assumed the power of policy without consent of the governed.

[laughingliberal]

15. A noticeable shift to the left is needed

I don't expect to see him push for improvement on the HCR bill. If it happens at all it will have to come from the House and Senate. Keep pressure on them but I don't see them tackling it again so close to an election. If they should decide to introduce ideas to push it to the left, he would need to sound supportive of the efforts.

He would need to push EFCA. The unions are getting smaller and less powerful but they still carry weight in an election and will be a factor if they sit out 2010.

It would help if he condemned the recent court rulings that declared enemy combatants are not 'persons' for the sake of the law and it is not illegal to torture them.

He should have repealed the Bush tax cuts. They are due to expire in 2010 and he needs to let them expire (cause I'm worried they won't even do this) and he needs to make supportive statements for this, explaining the damage the transfer to the top of all our money has had on the country.

He needs to stand for improving public education and stop the push for privatizing the system via charter schools. And he needs to stand clearly against any attempts to privatize SS or Medicare.

In short, he needs to support some liberal policies and, yes, he needs to can Emanuel, Geithner, Summers.

[unblock]

17. we need to give him a more liberal senate

we want him to be fdr, but fdr didn't have to deal with lieberman to get a 60th vote.

people forget that fdr had a VERY cooperative congress.

[laughingliberal]

21. A more liberal Senate, if it could be acheived, would be good

I do not expect it would push Obama to the left but enough of them might drag him, kicking and screaming, to the left. I am skeptical that the administration actually wants a more liberal Senate or House. Rahm Emanuel has been one of the chief architects of the move to the right in the party and they seem to have lent their support to the righties in our party during the HCR debate while the progressives were ignored.

[OHdem10]

20. Does he really want to be in good graces of Liberals????

[YvonneCa]

27. You say 'Liberals" like it's a bad word...

...:)

[natrat]

22. does the shadow government give a hoot about liberals or what puppet is in office?

[LWolf]

23. He can do these 3 things:

1. End the bogus "war on terror" and bring our troops home...quickly.

2. Start meeting with Conyers, Kucinich, and Sanders, and start using the bully pulpit to push for single-payer health care.

3. Fire Duncan, dump the "RTTT," and put an actual left-of-center, non-privatizer, non-union-buster, non-corporate stooge, real EDUCATOR in as Secretary of Education.

[YvonneCa]

24. I really like # 3. When I talk to teacher friends...

...I find they are 1. UNAWARE of plans to tie evaluation to student test scores and 2. UPSET that Obama's Secretary of Education wants to do that. If my 'sample' is true of larger teacher populations, Obama will LOSE support among educators if he keeps on this course.

I don't want that to happen. I support the need for and goals of reform, but not the current plan/methodology. Obama still has time to do education right. I REALLY hope he does so.

[LWolf]

33. I don't hold out much hope,

since that would be counter to the direction he's chosen, but a little hop is better than none. The more pressure we can bring to bear, the better.

[YvonneCa]

42. I know. My hope level diminishes...

...by the day. But as long as there is a flicker, I'll keep trying to inform people...any way I can. I completely agree about pressure being brought to bear.

[Tailormyst]

46. Add in two more:

4. Stop allowing soldiers to be discharged because of their sexual orientations.

5. Strongly and forcefully call on the Democrats in Washington to end DOMA. Come out strongly in favor of full equality for GLBT citizens.

[YvonneCa]

25. Campaign Finance Reform AND Election Reform...

...would not only be good for Obama, it would be wonderful for the country. If I remember correctly Hillary Clinton had legislation drawn when she was a senator...and Boxer, Kerry (and Gore and former President Carter) understand the problem well.:7 :patriot:

[unblock]

32. well that's at the root of it all

the corporate lobbyists are as effective as they are because they are permitted to control washington with their money.

take money out of the equation and corporations still have enormous influence, but no longer the chokehold they have now.

[Dinger]

26. Here's The Answer:

Be a Liberal.

[cliffordu]

28. Mebbe he could teach punctuation.

Capital letters and shit.

[unblock]

37. but "mebbe" not spelling?

[cliffordu]

43. Ah, I see we have a geeenius in our miidst.

Or do I have to use a sarcasm smilie for this, too??

[unblock]

44. no sarcasm smilie needed, we're on the same page :)

one friendly needle deserves another :)

:hi:

actually my shift key is broken....

[cliffordu]

47. And I ain't wearin' my glasses these days out of stubborn vanity...

[unblock]

48. fontsize++ :)

[Pisces]

30. I'm a liberal and Obama's still in my good graces

[Peacetrain]

31. I am a liberal.. and he is doing just fine.. thank you very much

[tilsammans]

34. Stop squandering opportunities. n/t

[Xicano]

35. "but he can show he's on our side."

He's already shown who's side he's on. FISA, NAFTA, Black Water, War, Torture, Unequal Marriage, Wall Street, Patriot Act, No Public Option.

I really don't see how people can continue to have wishful thinking after someone has made their positions clear. Its like when some people don't understand when a woman says no she really means NO! She doesn't mean maybe, she doesn't mean keep hassling me and I might change my mind, she certainly doesn't mean yes. She means NO! People thinking Obama doesn't mean what he's doing or think he's going to change his mind are just as delusional as the man who can't understand no from a woman.

Besides, why would he give the opposition even more ammo with flip-flopping on top of more flip-flopping? He'll only make himself look like he can't make up his mind. No politician with any sense is going to do that. Just face it Obama is a representative for wall street and that's exactly how he's governing.

Sorry, but that's the reality.




Peace,
Xicano

[unblock]

38. nothing in my post suggested that obama was a liberal

and i never believed him to be one of us.

regardless of his agenda (probably more than 95% of which, like most successful presidential candidates, is simply to BE president) he's obviously ticked us liberals off and needs to do something to appease us. barring a highly improbable sea change of liberal action, nothing he is remotely likely to do would convince me that he is one of us in terms of ideology.

but he is one of us in terms of party, and he needs to pay us some heed unless he wants an ugly primary challenge.

[Xicano]

40. "but he is one of us in terms of party"

How? By merely being registered as a Democrat? It takes more to be "one of us in terms of party" than just being registered as a Democrat. ACTIONS! are first and foremost what defines us. What has his actions showed us? That he's a wall street corporatist. Sorry, but that's the reality of what we have.

Sorry, but his actions show him not to be one of us. He's crossed over that line too many time and in just one year.



Peace,
Xicano

[unblock]

41. please. there's still a big difference between obama and the typical republican

just because he's on the other side of the big tent doesn't mean he isn't IN the big tent.

[Bluebear]

36. 'but he can show he's on our side.' - he isn't, though.

[unblock]

39. emphasis on "show"

[Wizard777]

45. Prosecute Bush & Cheney! That's how.