Reposting Mari333's OP with graph shown:

[SaveOurDemocracy]

This needs to be seen! It keeps sinking because many ignore OPs that are links to another site.


Thank's to Mari333 for drawing attention to this chart.
original op: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7332139


International Health Care Spending Comparison Graph:



http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/.a/6a00d83451c45669e20120a77d19db970b-popup

[StarfarerBill]

1. K&R

[AzDar]

2. K & R

:kick:

[ProSense]

3. Excellent chart.

New Zealand does quite well.

[Junkdrawer]

40. K&R

[NYC_SKP]

4. Rec. nt

[DJ13]

5. This shows the stupidity of basing reform on our current system

[truedelphi]

57. The illogic of Obama's statement --

"Although Single Payer Universal HC is the best solution, if you are starting from scratch, we already have a system in place, so we must work within that system" is overwhelming.

The only contender to that piece of illogic are his actions of "We have a mandate unseen in modern Presidential elections, but pls let me ignore that mandate while I fly around the country to meet with RW TeaBaggers and consider what they want and how it is I can help them with their wants."

[smalll]

6. Brilliant chart!

Thanks.

[Odin2005]

7. Excellent chart!

[Joanne98]

8. I'm stealing it!

:)

[Nikki Stone1]

9. Life expectancy is linked to poverty rates, legalized firearms, and other crucial issues.

This graph doesn't demonstrate the real relationship between healthcare costs and life expectancy.

In addition, this current bill will leave 16 million Americans uninsured. It's certainly not universal healthcare.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

11. It certainly illustrates the need for universal health care ...

not the sham that the Senate passed that fattens the insurance and pharma coffers at the expense of our health and well-being.

Many 'lesser-developed'(?) countries, with their own life-endangering issues, spend far less and seem to benefit their people far more.

[femrap]

10. The US spends more because

our health care system is based on MAKING PROFITS OFF OF SICK PEOPLE. There is no 'profit motive' in the other countries.

A sick person has $$ signs in her/his eyes in this country. And they really get greedy in the last two months of life.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

12. Exactly. We are nothing more than a potential profit source.

[MrMickeysMom]

36. "And they really get greedy in the last two months of life."

"They" sure do. Our glorious 3rd party reimbursement for the most expensive (ICU after ER entry) will see the profit motive through reimbursed "high tech" survival devices.... and other fee for service testing, but don't take too long to die once you're in the ICU, now, okay?

You get to see a lot of this if you work in that end. However, if the patient "survives" this phase (thus, making end of life care shift to yet another area that is NOT as expensive, then :sarcasm: damn you!) because then we'll have to move you out to a "subacute unit" where we can keep you alive and (ahem) comfortable, until the money starts going away. This explains why more and more subactue units are going away. Just closed down the one I've been working in (because they didn't know how to correctly get the "payers" to mix, too many Medicaid and Medicare part A days are so limited). Those private insurers just wouldn't commit.

So, remember now people, you've gotta do your part as critically ill patients! Be sure and die in the high tech/high touch end to save our glorious health insurance industry!

[femrap]

65. I would think that people are

going to start doing more Assisted Suicides when they are faced with critical illnesses.

One works hard to save up funds to pass on...whether it be to family members or charities and the Health Care System is designed to take it all away.

It's truly heartbreaking.

May the Greedy sharks suffer...actually that gives real sharks a bad name.

[jtrockville]

13. That $7,290 figure.... should it really be $9,720?

The chart has this text:

Dollar figures reflect all public and private spending on care, from doctor visits to hospital infrastructure.

The text doesn't mention the ~25% off-the-top our middlemen take, which really can't be categorized as "care". The skyrocketing compensation paid to executives of these "insurers" can't either, but I digress...

So do we really spend more like $9,720 when you include the costs of running our health care delivery system like a racket?

[Doctor_J]

23. I think it's the other way around

If you subtract 25% from 7290, you get 5400. So without the insurance companies/killers taking their cut we might be competitive.

[JDPriestly]

26. And, if you figure in that the dollar is probably overinflated compared

to other currencies because it is the "oil dollar" we are probably actually paying not that much more to our healthcare providers in terms of their buying power.

[jtrockville]

41. Do you really think the middle-man's cut is counted as "care"?

I wonder who was responsible for making that decision. If it were me, I'd have categorized it separately, if for no other reason than to highlight the absurdity of it.

[Doctor_J]

59. No, but it's counted in the cost of health care

just as are all of the workers in the doctor's office who have to spend hours per day begging insurance companies for payment.

[jtrockville]

60. We really need to do away with that nonsense.

We'd all be so much better off. Doctors could practice medicine knowing they don't have to grovel to get paid for their services, and patients could get the treatment their doctor prescribes, without groveling.

Why do we put up with this?

[Doctor_J]

61. Same reason we put up with all of the shit rained down by Hate Radio

we're too chicken to do what's right.

[Mari333]

14. Thank you so so much

Ive been posting that link all over the place today. it needs to be seen, yes yes it does.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

17. I hoped you wouldn't mind my repost ... thanks for

bringing it to us.

[SammyWinstonJack]

15. knr

[usregimechange]

16. Amazing

[piedmont]

18. Holy crap! I kept wondering "where's the U.S. in this graph?" and then I looked up.

Sobering.

[sabrina 1]

19. Interesting look at what we already know, keeping Private

Insurance afloat and in charge of our Health Care system is something we cannot afford. They are a huge expenditure that the American people simply cannot support anymore. The numbers also back the claim from many people that at least one third of every dollar spent on health care, is used up for profits. So, if someone is paying $12,000 a year for a premium, only $8,000 of it is actually spent on health care.

I'd like to see someone do another chart, showing how many people go bankrupt and how many lose their lives as a result of their health care systems also.

[AlbertCat]

38. keeping Private Insurance afloat and in charge of our Health Care system is something we cannot affo

Exactly.

The ONLY reason the bill is such a labyrinthal mess is because of trying to reform the system without changing anything.

Everyone KNOWS what should be done and what works to solve the problem of cost.

[annabanana]

20. Thank you Thank you Thank you...

This needs to be thrown into the hopper over at Keith's and at Rachel's for some major dissemination!

[Stinky The Clown]

21. Technically speaking, a slight change downward in our per capita spending *would* be ......

.... and improvement.

Which is what lots of people seem to be trying to tell us is why we should be all grateful and cheering and shit about this health care crap that's coming out of the congress and the white house.

[HughMoran]

22. We ain't getting our money's worth, that's for sure!

What a friggin' waste of money for sub-middler life expectancies (albeit our crappy lifestyles are probably a big contributor to our lower average lifespans.

[Tumbulu]

24. amazing (nt)

[AllyCat]

25. We have to pay the corporations big bucks so they can tell us "we have the best

health care in the world".

[Lasher]

27. That graphic is from the print version of National Geographic Magazine.

Accompanying text:

The United States spends more on medical care per person than any other country, yet life expectancy is shorter than in most other developed nations and many developing ones. Lack of health insurance is a factor in life span and contributes to an estimated 45,000 deaths a year. Why the high cost?

The US has a fee-for-service system - paying medical providers piecemeal for appointments, surgery, and the like. That can lead to unneeded treatment that doesn't reliably improve a patient's health. Says Gerald Anderson, a professor at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health who studies health insurance worldwide, "More care does not necessarily mean better care."

National Geographic Magazine, January 2010, p. 27 (not included in online version)

Do you have a link to an article in The Atlantic that is associated with this graphic?

[66 dmhlt]

34. Here's a Link to the "National Geographic" - Source for the graph

http://blogs.ngm.com/blog_central/2009/12/the-cost-of-care.html

The United States spends more on medical care per person than any country, yet life expectancy is shorter than in most other developed nations and many developing ones. Lack of health insurance is a factor in life span and contributes to an estimated 45,000 deaths a year. Why the high cost? The U.S. has a fee-for-service system—paying medical providers piecemeal for appointments, surgery, and the like. That can lead to unneeded treatment that doesn’t reliably improve a patient’s health. Says Gerard Anderson, a professor at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health who studies health insurance worldwide, “More care does not necessarily mean better care.” —Michelle Andrews

[Lasher]

51. Thanks, I was not able to find it myself.

Now I see you go to blogs, then wide angle, then Cost of Care.

[DWilliamsamh]

28. Thank you for reposting....it tells us we have to keep fighting...and....

National health care is just the right thing to do - in one form or another - for even the most selfish of reasons. Being forced to buy health insurance from for profit companies is NOT reform. It just infuriates me that the congress and the President don't LEAD on this issue, instead of worrying about their corporate masters, and the carping of so called conservatives.

[Christa]

29. K & Highly rec'd nt

[DWilliamsamh]

30. K'd, R'd & shared on FB (enough acronyms??) (n/t)

[AusDem]

31. interesting graphic

however i wanna know what mexico is doing?

[Laelth]

32. k&r for the truth, however depressing. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[dgibby]

33. Sent to Ed, Keith, Rachel

Hope they use it!

K&R!

[skipos]

35. So this includes the taxes that each country pays to go toward health care? nt

[Orsino]

37. K&R...and about time that Sullivan did something useful. n/t

[Mari333]

39. hah!

[Uncle Joe]

42. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, SaveOurDemocracy and thanks to Mari for the original thread which I missed.

[paparush]

43. KICK! nt

[KansDem]

44. K&R

This certainly puts the whole HCR debate in perspective...

[tomp]

45. that's why i said any argument against health care reform based on finances...

...were bogus. obama has even publicly stated that we already pay enough as a nation to insure high quality helath care for all.

[glinda]

46. that is truly depressing

[donco6]

47. *whistling in the wind*

Not saying a thing.

[earcandle]

48. Does this chart show how ignorant and uneducated our managers are around Health Care or what?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

49. K&R

[krispos42]

50. Excellent

Simply excellent :thumbsup:

[Blasphemer]

52. K&R.. nt

[yellerpup]

53. Worth kicking on this thread, too.

:kick:

[valerief]

54. Thanks! K&R

:kick:

[geckosfeet]

55. Switzerland and Sweeden are KICKIN a$$. Very little care for pretty good life expectancies.

[Quantess]

62. Especially Japan.

[geckosfeet]

63. Yes - Japan has high life expectancy but a lot of doctors visits. If that's what it takes I suppose.

[coyote]

56. If there wasn't a bigger argument against privatization/corporations...

this graph is it.

Nationalize the health insurance companies.

[GoneOffShore]

58. K&R

[Quantess]

64. kick