Repost reword: I believe in these things, believe the party should also.

[madfloridian]

I guess I did not word it well before. :)

A woman's right to reproductive care with decisions made with her doctor.

The right to be free from laws written by Congress with churches at their side.

The right to a free public education not controlled by corporations.

The rights of teachers to keep the advantages their unions worked so hard to get. The right for your government not to offer incentive pay to squelch those rights.

The rights of teachers and students NOT to be judged by one test, privately written, privately scored, with no regulation.

The rights of gays to serve their country openly, or to be able to have relationship rights.

In my mind those are moderate positions. Not too far to the left. There are other things of course, but these are the ones under attack right now.

There's a danger in making these out to be anything else but mainstream views of the Democratic party.

[StarfarerBill]

1. First rec, and in complete agreement.

[madfloridian]

2. May I state this is my opinion.

Others are free to differ.

[NYC_SKP]

3. I like this subject line wording much more. Thanks, madfloridian. n/t

[madfloridian]

19. Trouble is....

there are other posts using the same words that are still turning into flamefests. Mine was locked, they are not.

Frankly it kinds of bothers me as the other subject lines were worded much the same.

It's okay, but it has 88 recs. That is twice this week I had a post taken off front page. One was put back.

It's the principle of the thing.

[bigwillq]

4. K and R (nt)

[MissDeeds]

5. K&R

:kick:

[BrklynLiberal]

6. Perfectly worded. I agree...totally.

[ThomCat]

7. I agree completely.

Well said. :)

[Bluebear]

8. You worded it fine.

[timeforpeace]

10. I agree, we got it.

[madfloridian]

12. I worry that these things are not on the party's agenda right now.

I wish they were.

[Thickasabrick]

9. This is beautiful....I guess I missed the first one. K&R!!

[madfloridian]

14. Same as the other except for subject line.

Had 88 recs before it was locked.

[amborin]

11. K&R

[highplainsdem]

13. K&R

[Bluebear]

15. k/r

[HughMoran]

16. That's a fine list

I would suggest that most of those are under constant attack (not just right now) & require continuous vigilance.

[leftstreet]

17. K&R again

[waiting for hope]

18. K&R - missed the first one,

but happy to see this one. :thumbsup:

[Overseas]

20. K&R. /nt

[JoeyT]

21. I'd toss "Protecting the constitution" in there too.

Since we're the only party that ever cared about it, no matter how much Republicans say they do.

Great list, and I agree: Those are all moderate/centrist positions. Positions for which there should be no debate or concern.

[clear eye]

22. These should be bottomline Dem tenets. Enthusiastic R! n/t

[mzmolly]

23. I like your new wording.

I'll K and R to that! ;)

:kick:

[Winterblues]

24. Would you say our current education system is working well?

I understand the desire to protect teachers and their unions but at what costs? I think our education system is in need of an overhaul of sorts. Not sure exactly what needs to be done but it seems obvious to me something is not right. Americans seem to be getting less educated every year that goes by. Some teachers that are tenured are not necessarily the best we could have there..I don't have the answers but I sure have the questions..:shrug:

[madfloridian]

25. Do you want to privatize education without regulation?

Do you think public schools can survive while their funding is taken away?

[vadawg]

26. personally i think the kids come first, even if it means getting rid of all public education

and all teachers, i think we need to look at whats best for the kids and then work from that beginning, someday there might not be any schools with everything being done from home online, we just dont know how its going to work out but the kids should come first..

[freddie mertz]

27. "Even if it means getting rid of all public education and all teachers.."

That is frankly nuts.

Where would any of us be without teachers?

[fascisthunter]

30. I Think That's the Point of Those who Promote Privatization

If privatization succeeds in destroying publicly financed education, we will have more and more people left out in the cold with no chance of climbing the economic ladder. Maybe that end result is really what they want.

[zalinda]

31. Ask any person growing up in the 50's & 60's what

their education was like, and you will find that we did quite well. The dumbing down of education probably started with Reagan, but maybe it just feels like it. We keep taking money away from schools, and then tell them to only teach to test, ala "No Child Left Behind", and what do you expect?

And kids going on line to go to "school" is not a workable situation. Not only would a parent or other have to watch the child during the normal school day, but the child would not benefit from social interaction. Children have to learn how to socialize and interact with their peers, and not everyone has brothers or sisters at home. More and more parents are opting for only one child, and an on line school would be very isolating to an only child.

I think that part of the problem is putting all children into a melting pot of a class, with some not able to keep up, so the teacher has to dumb down the material. Instead, children could be divided into classes according to ability and those who "get it" faster, help those that are having a problem. Teaching someone something is the best way to learn something yourself.

zalinda

[fascisthunter]

29. No, but there is a reason for that

and it's not the fault of those who promote publicly financed education. There have been too many defunding and crippling public education to just claim it failed. It failed due to politicians selling out to a philosophy of corporatism, which is to replace all publcly funded programs. Well, we tax payers will still be paying for it all, and yet we will never see a tax break for it. In the end, it will cost much more...

[glitch]

33. I used to say this about Reagan policies: they'd break the knees of govt programs to prove they

didn't work, then shoot them in the head when they couldn't run.

Everybody who follows the Milton Friedman model, whether they are Reaganites, Bushites or DLCers, uses this method.

It's not necessarily to prove they are right so much as it is an excuse to loot the funding before people catch on.

[LWolf]

37. Of course we're in need of an overhaul,

and teachers have been advocating for an authentic overhaul to the system for decades. If they were every listened to, the system wouldn't be much better than it is.

Notice that Obama did not appoint an educator as Secretary of Education. He did not work with educators to design a plan to overhaul the system. His plan is about privatization and union-busting, not about improving public education.

I have plenty of answers, and I'll start with this:

Teachers AREN'T THE PROBLEM. That doesn't mean that there aren't some poor teachers, just as there are in any other profession. There are plenty of good ways to address poor teaching, but that won't solve the systemic dysfunctions that keep students from progressing as far as they should, because teachers are not the source of the problems.

If you'd like to look at ensuring a highly skilled, professional teaching force, look at Charlotte Danielson's work. She's got a framework for evaluating teachers and working on professional improvement even for the BEST teachers. It's not about punishing, though, but about supporting professional growth and improvement.

If you'd like to improve the system, look at these things:

1. Pour massive amounts of resources into abolishing poverty, since parent socio-economic level is the most consistent predictor of student achievement.

2. Small schools, small class sizes, abundant resources, larger classrooms.

3. Flexible calendars and school years.

4. Schools as community centers where, in addition to classroom teaching, there are before and after school programs, a real kitchen preparing fresh food, access to mental and physical health care, and anything else that supports and community and brings them together.

5. The end of high-stakes testing.

6. Flexible curriculum, instruction, assessment, and evaluation.

7. Open campuses, encouraging parents to visit, observe, and get involved.

8. Individualized curriculum and instruction (with the necessary supports to make it practical.)

9. Frequent, in-depth parent/student/teacher conferences.

10. Higher level thinking as part of the core curriculum.


I could give you much more, but this would be a good start.

[Vidar]

28. K&R.

[pundaint]

32. I would add Habeas Corpus

[amborin]

39. +1000

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

34. Eeek!! Too liberal! Impractical! Unreaslistic! You want ponies!! K&R

[LWolf]

35. I thought you worded it just fine the last time,

but I'll K & R this version, too.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Jackpine Radical]

36. On the testing issue--

As you put it, "The rights of teachers and students NOT to be judged by one test, privately written, privately scored, with no regulation."

The fact that this is permitted to happen is absolutely amazing.

Before retreading as a clinician, I was an educational psychologist with a fair amount of background in test theory, among other things. I cannot believe that these tests meet the ethical standards of the field, so anyone trying to use them for decision-making ought to be sued.

Have a look at this book: http://www.amazon.com/Standards-Educational-Psychological-Testing-1999/dp/0935302255/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1262044774&sr=8-1

[LWolf]

38. That, or my old text book from my psychological measurement course:

http://www.amazon.com/Psychological-Testing-7th-Anne-Anastasi/dp/0023030852

Mine was actually the 6th edition, but it's out of print.

I actually went back to my professor when high-stakes testing began in CA with the API, before it went federal with NCLB.

I pointed out what he'd taught us, and what our text had to say, and asked him how this could be a reliable or valid way to measure teacher or school effectiveness. He was blunt: "It's NOT. It's political manipulation, and the data, and the use of that data, is corrupt."

[Jackpine Radical]

40. That's a much later edition of Anastasi than my long-disappeared copy.

[LWolf]

42. Yes.

And it's still old and out of print.

Which brings me to point out, yet again, that we've known enough about standardized testing to know that the current use is not valid for decades before it was shoved down our throats anyway.

[Jackpine Radical]

43. It's a violation of professional ethics

for any psychologist or educational testing professional to be involved with this enterprise. Which leads me to wonder who is developing these tests.

[LWolf]

44. Good question. nt

[David Zephyr]

41. K&R.

They are mainstream. They are what our party should be fighting for, not running from.