Can the American people get real representation in Congress?

[metapunditedgy]

I guess I'm moving leftward. I'm starting to think that mere talk and voting is a complete waste of time. But I'm eager to be talked down. (It's hard to get up off my butt and do something.)

[Skittles]

1. start electing substance over style

[Demeter]

2. It Will Take Several Revolutions, Actually

and while these revolutions don't have to be bloody or violent, they probably will be because of resistance from the Powers that Be, who like things just the way they are, since that's the way they set it up. Unless the global economy collapses so completely that they haven't a leg to stand on. Odds are probably even on that right now.

[metapunditedgy]

3. Ok, you're not talking me down... n/t

[Demeter]

4. Is that what you wanted?

I can't talk you down. There is no supporting evidence that we will get out of this through "normal" means.

[metapunditedgy]

5. Yeah, it would be nice to be talked down.

Gradualism (sit back and let someone else do the work) and defeatism (no point in even trying) let me sit on my butt and not feel bad. :-)

[TheWatcher]

29. If you just want to be talked down, don't be surprised or complain when you never see any REAL

Change in your lifetime.

Demeter isn't going to tell you what you want to hear. She is a highly intelligent, informed person who's going to TELL YOU HOW IT IS.

Maybe most of us don't want to face it, but that does not change reality, or the consequences that will result from that reality, or the current circumstances in which we find ourselves.

One of the biggest problems this country has is that we vote and sleep, hoping for a different result, then do everything we can to ignore what is obviously going on, because it's more important to feel good and support "The Football Team" than face reality.

I realize you're being cute with that statement, but this country is in it's 11th hour, and most of it's citizens don't even know what time it is.

Or care.

I don't mean to be harsh, but if all people want is for someone to tell them it's going to be OK so they can feel good, then the people don't desire change.

They desire perception management.

And that does not lead to CHANGE.

That leads to BUSINESS AS USUAL.

[EFerrari]

6. We don't own our elections. What do we expect?

[metapunditedgy]

11. You mean financially? Or something different? n/t

[EFerrari]

20. If we can publicly finance illegal wars in the wrong country

we should be able to manage funding our own elections.

[metapunditedgy]

33. But it would cost MILLIONS of dollars to fund elections!!!

[MilesColtrane]

7. Other

They can get real representation up until their representative sees how much cash can be made by selling his, or her vote.

Call it, "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington and Sells Out Faster Than a Motherfucker".

[divideetimpera]

8. This federalist republic was designed to thwart democracy

the federal constitution was installed by the rich founding fathers in order to thwart the burgeoning parliamentarian democracies that were beginning to take over in the several states under the articles of confederation.

We will never get a true democracy like they have in western europe because of the structure of this undemocratic federal govt.


The installation of our present federal constitution was actually a counterrevolution by the rich against the working classes. It succeeded all too well..


Read this 4 page article by Dr Woody Holton:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa4026/is_200607/ai_n17187913/?tag=content;col1

[nofurylike]

9. thank you for this information, divideetimpera. that really is the

crux of things.

is there really NO mechanism by which we can change this into another, truly representative form of democracy?

thank you for any insight on that you will share.


peace

[divideetimpera]

16. devolve power back to the states

look at western europe--that is the empirical evidence to prove my points.

What they have now in western europe is what was developing in america between 1776 and 1791. After 1791, when the aristocrats installed the current constitution and federal govt, democracy died off slowly. That put the quietus to the beginnings of robust democracy here in america.

How do you take power from the fed govt? Clearly the nation is too large and diverse and controlled by Big Money to do anything radical via federal legislation. Witness what has happened to HCR now.

However, without tax dollars the fed govt is powerless. A powerless fed govt opens the way for the states to develoip parliamentarian democracies so that americans can take Big Money more or less out of the picture (or at least diminish the power of Big Money) and set up our communities so that americans can take care of each other.


End the IRS and let the states do all the income taxation. Starve the fed govt. That is a first step. And the good thing about that agenda is that the GOP has already pushed this idea, albeit only on lip service levels, as we know that the fed govt has only grown more and more powerful under the GOP administrations as well as the Dems. But we know that there is a grassroots GOP voter sentiment out there to take power and money from the fed govt. Now, if there were a DEMOCRAT grassroots base that felt the same, there could be politicians elected who would actually do it.

Democracy is essential to leftism. Parliamentarian govts provide far more democracy than the american fed govt will allow. Thus, to get a real left in america, we need to starve the fed govt.

Real HCR and a real social safety net can only come at the state level. Witness western europe. Their nations are like our states. But they have parliamentarian govts, where the power is placed in the hands of politicians elected at local levels, from small districts. Then once we get the social safety net, we can take on the federal war machine and the big banks that control our govt from Washington DC.

But we are really putting the horse before the cart. The first step is to teach the truth about our governmental structure versus parliamentarian democracies. So very few people know th truth. Most who think they are knowledgeable about these issues are actually part of a constitution-worshipping cult grown over decades by the rich and powerful who benefit from the federal constitution (as president John Q Adams wrote in his diary, "The constitution increases the power and wealth, the power and wealth of those who have any already").

Then once we have a core of online activists who are aware of the real problem, begin pushing the states rights, states power, state taxation agenda.

Dr Woody Holton wrote a longer essay that basically explains more about the issues in the short article above. That longer essay is no longer available for free online. I have a copy of it, however. Holton also wrote an entire book about this issue (UNRULY AMERICANS...).

Also, Dr Jerry Fresia has an entire book online explaining much of this (Toward An american revolution).

What has happened with HCR in the senate represents a teachable moment. Some few here on DU are starting to see the light, I suspect. The iron is hot. Strike now!

[TheKentuckian]

28. Sounds cool, except the states on the whole are even worse than the feds

I think all the people who rave on about state government must all live in the same little handful of rational states or are Republicans who wish to take advantage of weak state governments to advance increased corporate power.

The real answer is bloody and destructive revolution but that's too much skin in the game.

[divideetimpera]

30. leftism is about being FOR the masses

if you are a leftist, you have to be FOR the masses. If you are FOR the masses, you have to trust the will of the majority.

If you do not trust the will of the majority, how can you be a leftist?

[Greyhound]

32. How do you think we got here in the first place? This simply parrots

(or directly quotes FAIK) Raygun's simplistic plan to decimate the working classes and create this neo-feudal dystopia.

A nation of divergent values and beliefs requires a central government to set and maintain a foundation of common good and inviolable rules of conduct to facilitate the union, otherwise it cannot survive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkanization">balkanization).

[divideetimpera]

34. balkanization is good for the citizens, bad for the rich.

" How do you think we got here in the first place? This simply parrots "

We got here because the rich aristocratic founding fathers illegally joined the states together so that they could increase the number of factions in the voting districts by enlarging the districts. That decreased the unity of the districts and decreased democracy, thuse allowing Big Money to take over the govt.


"Raygun's simplistic plan to decimate the working classes and create this neo-feudal dystopia."

What on earth are you talking about?


"A nation of divergent values and beliefs requires a central government to set and maintain a foundation of common good and inviolable rules of conduct to facilitate the union, otherwise it cannot survive (balkanization)."

No, it does not. If there are divergences, then the separate factions should break off and create their own nation so they can better unite and hold their politicians accountable. The real war is the rich against the rest of us. We can best fight the rich when we are uhited. The best way to unite is to eliminate difference in voting districts. The best way to to eliminate difference in voting districts is to make the voting districts smaller. Smaller means less divergences and more unity. Look at western european nations.

[nofurylike]

10. dupe. deleted. nt

[leftstreet]

15. Interesting article

Thanks for posting

[cali]

12. I don't know. What does that even mean?

Seems like people like Coburn do represent what the majority in OK want, just as Bernie and Pat and Peter represent what the majority in VT want.

[metapunditedgy]

13. Interesting question. On the one hand,

I'd like the government to do what's good for constituents. But (on the other hand) that's too vague to be practical. But lately we've been awash in bailout and HCR stories where it's clear that the gov't is *not* serving the voters. So I'd like to think that improvement is possible, even without an ideal solution.

[leftstreet]

14. Not until there are representatives Americans are willing to vote for

Half the eligible voters don't vote.

Gee, I wonder why.

[defendandprotect]

17. Other: corporatism/fascism blocks democratic action . . . as long as we keep doing

what we have been doing in response to the knowledge that corporations have

been buying government and our elected officials for the past forty years,

then the same corruption will continue --

ONLY when we develop a new plan to deal with this information might we begin

to combat corporatism/fascism -- and the tyranny of the two parties they now

control!!

[Shagbark Hickory]

18. The fix: Ban private contributions and limit terms!! To like 4 or 5 years!

[Wizard777]

19. Define "people." Corporate personages get absolute representation.

Flesh and blood people will not get proper representation until Corporate Personage has been outlawed. But until then The Immortals Gods of Commerce will reign supreme over mankind.

[cali]

21. I'm a person, not a corporate entity and I believe I'm represented

as such by all three of my Congressional reps.

[Wizard777]

26. I have good reps too. But we need a simple rule with elections.

If you cannot vote in the election. You may participate in it in any way.

[clear eye]

22. Other--Only if FENA is passed. link>>

http://www.campaignmoney.org/

[Echo In Light]

23. 100% biased against the people

[DisgustedInMN]

24. What is happening right now..

... has convinced me that ALL politicians are corrupt.

Thanks Barack.

[unblock]

25. other: robb is a dingbat

someone once said the people get the government they deserve....


without some way of removing the corrosive effects of money in politics, most notably by public campaign financing, it's a hopeless cause.

[librechik]

27. yeah, those mass protests are working real well nowadays (for republicans)

A million people in the street against the Iraq invasion? Yawn

10 million around the world? Who cares?

3000 show up to protest Obama? Don't you mean a million and a half? THOSE ARE REAL NUMBERS!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH HEALTH INSURANCE IS EVIL!!!TAKE THE BAD BLACK MAN AWAY MOMMY!!!!

still haven't heard the end of that!

We have lost. The Republicans can't win a vote because their agenda is crappy and unpopular. They don't have to win a vote anymore. They can buy the vote, they can buy the world and spit at us. Which they have done and will continue to do so.

Until we can buy our world back from the Scrooges, we will never be treated like whole human beings. We are no more than slaves.

Republicans like slaves. They won't make it easy to change their world into everybody's world. And most of us don't even know we have to fight for it.

[gleaner]

31. I said only ....

after mass demonstrations and protest. You have to get their attention, make them realize you won't go away, but you can and will vote them out.

Also we need media with the gumption to cover it instead of ignoring it like they did the peace and other protests under Bush.