Do all children need to learn to read?

[JuniperLea]

I was absolutely gobsmacked just now by reading a post... so in an effort to enlighten myself, I would like to know what other DUers think. For the sake of argument, obviously some children cannot be taught to read due to some intellectual issues... I'm not talking about them... that's obvious to me, and I hope to you too!

[Mass]

1. Who answered NO? May be this person may explain his/her reasoning?

People fought to get the right to learn how to read and write. Every oppressive government reduces education and access to books.

[virgogal]

2. Yeah,I'd like to hear that myself unless it was just a spoiler.

[bigwillq]

4. I voted No

just because it seemed like the OP was fishing for "Yes" votes.

[valerief]

8. If you teach voters how to read, then only readers will be able to vote.

:rofl:

[bigwillq]

11. LOL!

:rofl:

[JuniperLea]

You couldn't be more wrong...

I'm fishing for NO answers... I'm absolutely freaked out that anyone in their right mind can say such a stupid thing...

[bigwillq]

25. Then I was right about the fishing part!

:P :rofl:

What stupid thing are you referring to? :shrug:

[JuniperLea]

29. I feel it is stupid to say that children who can learn to read...

Shouldn't be if they don't like to read... that they are capable of living a life, holding a job, without learning to read.

[bigwillq]

32. Did I say that?

:shrug:

[JuniperLea]

35. Oh for fuck's sake... please try to keep up...

The reason for the OP is that someone claimed that not every child who can be taught to read needs to be taught to read.

[bigwillq]

38. "I'm absolutely freaked out that anyone in their right mind can say such a stupid thing"

Wasn't sure what you were talking about here. Thanks for your clarification. No need to be testy.

[JuniperLea]

39. I tend to get testy when it appears that someone is being willfully ignorant...

"I'm fishing for NO answers... I'm absolutely freaked out that anyone in their right mind can say such a stupid thing..."

I think it abundantly clear that the NO answer in this case is what freaks me out.

[TicketyBoo]

93. ??

Shouldn't be what? Shouldn't be made to read, you mean?

There's a difference between being taught to read and being made to read.

As far as being capable of living a life and holding a job without learning to read, ask someone who is illiterate how easy it is to live with illiteracy, and your eyes will be opened about that.

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/LegalCenter/story?id=4336421&page=1

[rfranklin]

7. Yes and now they just have to provide TV shows and video games...

So much less resistance.

[TicketyBoo]

47. It's hard to watch

Wheel of Fortune without knowing how to read!
As far as videogames are concerned, my child's first reading came from playing Toejam and Earl. ("Toejam is a Wiener." "Earl is a Dufus.") ()

[JuniperLea]

9. Spot on... imho...

I'd like to hear an explanation as well...

I just can't wrap my mind around the idea that it's ok for a child not to learn to read!

I have three kids... two are bookworms, one doesn't like to read... but he CAN read, and he CAN write, and he CAN spell, and he CAN construct a proper sentence. I know he reads news; he sends me links. He stays informed even if he doesn't like books. That's all I ask... if a person doesn't "like" to read, that's their choice AS AN ADULT.

[proteus_lives]

16. My nephew is like that. He doesn't like to read but he can.

I'm a total bookworm and I always have been and it is terrifying that I might have a kid who doesn't like to read. Because I just don't understand how anyone could not love to read.

[JuniperLea]

18. I was terrified too...

Until my middle kid proved himself... very smart, good job, etc. I'm coming to terms with it... hey, two out of three! LOL!

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. Maybe the NO votes can't read?

LOL

[HopeHoops]

45. I answered "NO". My niece is 19 and will never read.

Due to a birth defect, she is completely dependent on others for her care and only those of us who know her well understand that she actually can communicate, limited as that may be. There's no way she could ever have learned to read. So, based on personal experience, I say "no" to the absolute of "all children".

Now as for children who are capable of learning to read, yes, I think they should learn.

[JuniperLea]

50. I specifically noted this difference...

I really wonder if anyone here is reading... jeez...

Please... what part of this wasn't clear?

"For the sake of argument, obviously some children cannot be taught to read due to some intellectual issues... I'm not talking about them... that's obvious to me, and I hope to you too!"

[HopeHoops]

51. Sorry, I didn't get through the entire list of posts.

I was simply explaining why I voted "NO" in response to the post that challenged it. There wasn't any wiggle room in the poll options.

[JuniperLea]

58. This was stated in the OP...

Not down in some other post. The explanation of the poll gave you all the wiggle room you needed.

[bobbolink]

72. "I really wonder if anyone here is reading"

Isn't that the point?

:rofl:

:hi:

[JuniperLea]

74. Haha! Seriously!

:rofl:

:hi:

[FLAprogressive]

3. what kind of dumb question is this

[Caliman73]

56. It was a poll in response to another thread.

The OP of that post made the claim that reading was not for everyone and that not all children needed to be taught to read if they did not show any interest in it. It may be a question with an obvious answer to many people, but there are always those who go contrary to what is considered obvious. A "no" voter on this thread mentioned something about reading being a tool used to help imprison children in a reality created for them... so there you go.

[niyad]

63. would somebody link me to that unbelievably stupid thread?

I have several friends who were born with dyslexia (runs in their family) who could not read well in school--not to mention how bad they felt, and were made to feel. now, as adults, ALL of them are voracious readers. should they not have been taught, because they "weren't interested"?? was about to say, almost impossible to imagine the stupidity of that thread, but, upon reflection, seeing some of the stuff posted on DU in recent times, not surprising.

[Stinky The Clown]

5. "no" ........ really? Someone actually voted "no"

Unfukkinbleevable.

[ixion]

19. I know, right?

there are people out there who don't think reading is fundamental? :wtf:

[valerief]

6. Only readers can read this. Ha!

:rofl:

[bigwillq]

10. I think I know what post, and poster, you're talking about

And I have to say, none of us know the full story about this poster. I think it's unfair to judge.
All I can say is this: my boyfriend is Puerto Rican. He has a college degree and makes nearly double what I make. He owns his own house, car and lives rather comfortably.
However, some of his e-mails "sound" exactly like the poster (assuming we're talking about the same one) here. My boyfriend is not "dumb" nor does he have any intellectual issues. English is not his first language, and I think we all can say that the English language is a difficult one to master. Cut the poster some slack. Some are just not as proficient in the spoken and written language as others.

[JuniperLea]

21. You're wrong...

The poster in question is actually quite eloquent... wrong, moronic, but eloquent in his/her use of the English language.

[bigwillq]

36. Then we must be talking about a different poster.

A link would've been nice. Or at least a clue to point those uninformed in the right direction.
But thanks for telling me I am wrong again.

[JuniperLea]

41. It's against the rules to call out another DUer...

That's why I spelled it out in my OP here.

[bobbolink]

75. Rules, schmules....

We'd have to READ 'em.....

:rofl:

:hi:

[JuniperLea]

76. HAHAHA!

No doubt! No wonder rules get broken!

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. Can you link to the post you are talking about?

Cause my first thought was yes, they do need to learn to read but children with severe cognitive impairments can't always learn to read.

[JuniperLea]

23. No... it's against the rules...

Please re-read my OP... I've noted intellectual issues as a pass on the subject.

[Greyhound]

13. Simply stunning. @ least 3 people think that reading is a "luxury"?

Oh, and got your post back to zero.

[bobbolink]

77. Thanks for the reminder. I got it up to 3.

All of this from the "no censorship" brigade.

:crazy:

[Odin2005]

14. WTF? OF COURSE!

[JuniperLea]

15. That's how I feel too...

But I was just "informed" on another thread that a certain DUer thinks it's ok NOT to learn to read... because it's not necessary... and some people just don't want to.

[Mass]

20. Can you give a context about this thread, because at least one poster seems to think this is

about a poster not mastering perfectly the English grammar (in which case he is far from alone, starting by me).

[JuniperLea]

26. The thread was about schools and schooling...

And not at all about intellectual issues... which I very purposefully and amazingly plainly spelled out completely in my OP!

This is about someone saying that not all children who are capable of learning to read should be taught to read... because they don't need it... ugh.

[valerief]

37. Someone's equating reading with calculus. nt

[The2ndWheel]

17. I'd say no

But unfortunately we live in a totalizing world system where everyone has to do increasing the same few things or else be left behind, a concept which is as arbitrary as *having* to be able to read.

So to your question of, "Do all children need to learn to read?", I'd say no. If you added that they needed to do so in order to function in the reality that is made for them, then yeah, they do. I mean, they'll be left behind in a race with no destination if they don't.

[KG]

22. best to be careful. they might read Mao's 'Little Red Book'

[JuniperLea]

31. Seriously...

Or some crazy non-Christian religious books...

[TheKentuckian]

24. Three no votes?!? I can't believe that 3 people would even joke about such a thing

[Arctic Dave]

28. Drones don't need to read or write. Just do as they are told without question.

[JuniperLea]

33. Slaves too...

Keep 'em ignorant and they won't fight back.

[valerief]

30. Is our children learning? Childrens do learn.

http://www.spike.com/video/is-our-children/3096176

I must admit, I never saw the second segment on this very short clip before.

:rofl:

[Fire1]

40. Quote "W". lol!!!

[gopwacker_455]

34. Yes

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TheKentuckian]

49. Putrid. Kids do come 1st which is why every single one deserves

a quality and well rounded education. Not just the children of the rich, not just the most talented students, not just the catholics, not just those that are well located. ALL OF THEM!

Corporate and religious education will never have the goal of providing quality education to one and all.

[1]

43. a? pls! y wud u wan2? 2 much wrk. bcnu,ltr...

[Speck Tater]

44. Literate slaves are dangerous slaves. If TPTB wish to keep us enslaved they will keep us ignorant.

That's easier to accomplish if the slaves remain illiterate. Only those who oppose the elite would ever suggest such heresy as teaching everyone to read.

[mzteris]

46. context of question, please? n/t

[JuniperLea]

48. Another DUer, on another thread...

Told me that not all children who are able to learn to read shouldn't be expected to learn to read if "reading isn't for them" if they don't like to read... according to this DUer, there are jobs to be obtained and someone who cannot read can do well enough in the world.

[LeftyMom]

53. My late stepdad was functionally illiterate and he had a good job and supported a family.

I wouldn't recommend it, but there are a surprising number of people who are illiterate or nearly so and yes, they do find work. So do the significant number of immigrants who learn to speak English but never really get the hang of reading or writing it, which is fairly common if you learn the spoken language by immersion.

[bigwillq]

55. Good post, LM.

:thumbsup:

[JuniperLea]

57. My grandfather was a genius... seriously...

And a functioning illiterate. I can only imagine what he would have been capable of given the opportunity of a real education.

I understand it is possible, but why on God's green Earth would anyone say it's a valid choice? That if a kid doesn't like to read, the kid shouldn't be taught to read?

My daughter learned Spanish by immersion... she passed her AP exams with flying colors and was even accused of being a native Spanish speaker. Immersion works quite well for some.

[zalinda]

62. Those that are functionally illiterate, usually

depend on those that can read, or lead a very narrow life.

I had a friend who was a chef and ran a small restaurant. As a chef, he was great, and could order food over the phone from his suppliers. He had managed to recognize the "look" of certain words to know what they were. He fooled a lot of people, including myself. I would put together the menu for his daily specials, printing them out on the computer. He always asked me to read it to him, as he was working in the kitchen. But, then one day he had me read his rental agreement, as I started to read it silently, he said "no, read it out loud", I then realized he couldn't read. I doubt many people noticed that he couldn't read or write, he was really good at covering it up. But, it also cost him money, as he had to depend on people to be honest, and his partner wasn't.

zalinda

[treestar]

96. Are they getting into the technology?

books on tape, that software where you can talk into it and it types what you need.

Still, I don't see a world right now where one could do without it.

[Edweird]

52. Of course. Who the hell is voting no, WTF is wrong with them?

[PufPuf23]

54. How could anyone vote no?

Reading has been the richest and most rewarding experience of my life.

So sad for those without the ability to read.

[pipi_k]

78. This is what I don't understand either...

someone whose own life hasn't been enriched beyond measure by reading.

I love to read. I can't even begin to count how many books I've read since I first learned how to read. Many hundreds, at least. Some books I love so much that I read them over and over again and have to replace them with new copies when they've fallen apart from use.

I feel the same way about music, too.


After everything is said and done, listening to music and reading are my favorite activities.

[PSzymeczek]

84. Agree. So much so

that I taught myself when I was 2.

[TK421]

59. Six people voted no in this poll....let's count how many tombstones are handed out

this night! since reading isn't essential to trolls...they just sit under a bridge most of the time

or the ones that voted no just meant it as a joke

[bigwillq]

61. Why would they be tombstoned?

:shrug: Even if they didn't mean it as a joke (and weren't trolls)? For having a different opinion? :shrug:

[TK421]

64. I'm talking about the ones being deliberately disruptive....

I think everyone here can agree that reading is essential

[bigwillq]

67. Yes, b/c that never happens on DU

"...the ones being deliberately disruptive"

:sarcasm:

[TK421]

69. Yeah, those are the ones I mean

like this OP, for example....blatant stupidity

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7340434&mesg_id=7340434

[TheKentuckian]

66. No, just shamed, ridiculed, and given the stinkeye

[bigwillq]

68. Doesn't bother me.

It's a freaking message board. People take it way too seriously.

[niyad]

60. "to the person who cannot read, the world is a closed book"

can't remember who said that, twain, I believe.

[niyad]

65. and I just got it back to zero again.

[Trillo]

70. I didn't vote.

Your poll is too bi-polar: Not enough shades of gray for me to vote.

Warning, I've been advised that what follows concentrates too much on the negatives, but then a writer told me that. So, just skip the following words of mine if you wish only the warm fuzzy of positive groupthink.

Looking back at only my life experiences, I cannot say with certainty that, overall, reading or writing was beneficial in an economic sense. Surely, it brought some pleasure, as well as increased knowledge; however, it also opened the doors to seemingly endless scams, a thousand minute knife cuts, none of which were singly fatal, but when considered in the aggregate, had an overwhelming negative and long-term psychological impact.

I do believe it can be debated whether knowing how to read is more beneficial to authoritarians wishing to control us as well as scammers and predators taking advantage of us, versus the actual and practical "net financial benefits" that reading or writing should bring to each of us who can read.

Beyond the need to fill out a job application, I've never had one employment situation where reading or writing was practiced day in and day out, though I have known folks who worked with it every day and earned a living with it. Honestly, flipping a burger or rotating a screwdriver or digging a ditch or swinging a hammer doesn't require the daily ability to read beyond apparently needing to comprehend what infrequent edicts bosses decided to declare in writing.

I guess you could say that, today, I'm ambivalent whether reading was overall a plus versus a minus.

I'd LOVE to honestly believe that reading was more beneficial than harmful.

[JoeyT]

91. I can at least see where you're coming from.

Which is why teaching critical thinking skills is just as important as teaching kids to read.
Don't just teach them to read, teach them to *question* what they read.
Both of those talents will serve them well later in life.

[TicketyBoo]

94. Oh, really?

Honestly, flipping a burger or rotating a screwdriver or digging a ditch or swinging a hammer doesn't require the daily ability to read

Oh, really? How about reading the road signs and regulatory signs it takes to get to the job site? How about passing a written test for a driver's license?

There are dozens of times a day that you read when you don't even think about it. Try looking up someone's phone number in the phone book without being able to read. Try deciding what to order off a fast-food menu. Try grocery shopping. Try figuring out what's on tonight on TV.

Knowing how to read is freedom, so debate away about the evils of reading allowing "authoritarians wishing to control us" and "scammers and predators taking advantage of us." No. Someone who reads can be informed of such ills in the world and beware of them. Reading is freedom.

[LWolf]

71. Of course they do.

This poll might make interesting reading for the promoters and enforcers of NCLB, who will punish schools and teachers if kids don't pass standardized reading tests.

Some children don't learn because of cognitive issues. They still have to take the tests.

Others? Obviously, there is a percentage of the population that does not value literacy. But I'll be judged if their children aren't motivated enough to learn to read.

Everyone who can learn to read, and to think about that reading, should.

[Jamastiene]

73. Uh, yeah.

I was taught to read very early. Not teaching a child to read should be considered cruel and unusual punishment. They would miss out on entirely too much adventure, action, suspense, drama, comedy, history, fantasy, science fiction, and the simple pleasure of reading. By immersing themselves in another reality that takes them away and gives them a chance to really think, they are enriched. I cannot imagine why anyone would NOT want a kid to read. :crazy:

[Warren Stupidity]

79. How is an honest no a possible answer?

Could some naysayer please explain?

[bridgit]

80. Yes, and they should be encouraged to read between the lines too

[PSzymeczek]

81. Duh!

This is the ultimate stupid question!

[seabeyond]

82. generally it is said, not all kids should be required to do college. college is not for everyone

and i tend to agree with that

i have NEVER heard anyone suggesting ALL people should not be taught to read, though. that is absurd to suggest

[L0oniX]

83. "Is our children learning?" "I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully."

George W. set the standard.

[McCamy Taylor]

85. WTF? Is anyone posting on this board who can not read?

[Chulanowa]

86. of course, with one qualifier...

Those assorted cultures with strong oral traditions can do fine without reading. That caveat said, our culture is not like that. We get the majority of our information from reading, period. A lack of reading ability is not a choice, it's a defect. You need to read in order to get by in most of the world.

The seven people answering no are, rather ironically, reading.

[Withywindle]

87. Not teaching a child to read is child abuse, period.

Excluding, of course, kids who are so disabled they *can't* learn.

Yes, it's true that it's possible to find a way to make a living if you can't read or write. But in our culture, such a person has a very difficult road ahead and his or her options are VERY limited. Why would anyone think it's OK to start a kid off that seriously disadvantaged right out of the gate? Immigrants with poor English are at least presumably literate in some language, right? That's not the same thing as not being able to read or write any language, at all.

[dugaresa]

88. i knew people who were unable to read and it harmed them

it kept them from getting out of abusive relationships, it kept them from employment in many cases.

being able to read in any language is important because from that you can learn another language if necessary.

[donheld]

89. Talk about dumbing down the USA

That would be one big step towards that end. Yes every child should be taught to read.

[Better Today]

90. The problem with your question is that is sets a pre-determined

idea that only those that can read are "okay," therefore rights for those that cannot read get shorted. Furthermore you don't define "reading" very well, are you saying college level reading, high school, or grade school, first grade reading ability, second grade reading ability.

You act like you are so in the right and anyone who disagrees is stupid, but the implications of holding a nation to such a standard would be devastating to those of low income, in poor school districts, and immigrants even though any or all them may be quite intelligent just not literate, or not literate in English.

Furhtermore your NO answer is too encompassing, people who don't read are not necessarily unable to learn. You suggest that reading is paramount to learning yet my ex-hubby IT guru for IBM can't write and won't read except in hexidecimal, which he does quite well and can read a dump of over 2500 pages faster than anyone I know can read a 500 page novel.

[Spider Jerusalem]

92. Well, to be perfectly, brutally honest...all children CAN'T learn to read.

Some people are not capable of it. Some people are going to be at best functionally illiterate with only the rudimentary pattern-recognition skills needed to grasp traffic signs and tell Abe Lincoln from Andrew Jackson on their money, and read simple things, and sign their names. The rate of functional illiteracy in the US is possibly as high as 20% according to some estimates. Everyone should be educated to the limits of their ability, sure, but some people are significantly more limited than others, and for a considerable number of people an honestly earned high school diploma is out of the question, let alone an undergraduate or graduate degree.

[TicketyBoo]

95. But the original post

specifically excluded those who are not capable of learning to read, as the poster has said repeatedly throughout this thread.

[AngryAmish]

97. What age to children start to read?

lil AA will be two in February and she doesn't know all the letters yet. She only gets about half. Is she falling behind? And when she does her numbers she leaves out seven a lot, mostly because I think she likes to say eight.

[struggle4progress]

98. I dunno. If they learn to read, they may start thinking; next they'll be asking questions; and then

they'll discover how often the authorities spout pure unadulterated bullshit. Well, anybody can see how it'll all go downhill from there. Here in America, we tried educating children after the Sputnik scare -- and suddenly all the kiddies grew up and were demanding Real Democracy and other stuff like that. So in this country, we just don't do that anymore