Should Napolitano either resign or be fired?

[Stinky The Clown]

I don't think she should. I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. I see every day, right here on DU, people doing what she initially did. She said something that, upon reflection, was wrong, but would not allow herself to be seen as changing her mind. So she repeated it.

She has since walked it back. The system didn't work, she now says.

But lets circle back. What was her initial intent? It is my own personal view that her intent was to inspire confidence, not to defend a screw-up. The problem is that this is one area that remains sacred. Chickenshit America has no tolerance for airline risk. Look at how many think taking your shoes off and running the risk of a foot fungus is preferable to safeguards against our rights to privacy. A nation that would give up its rights for its safety deserves neither. (<--- bad paraphrasing).

I hope she gets a pass for this and we move on to fix what we can in what will **always** be a vulnerable system.

[RKP5637]

1. +100, Agree!!! n/t

[louis-t]

2. Why is everyone blaming her for a guy

getting a visa from the bush admin, getting on a plane in an overseas country, then setting his pants on fire?

[snagglepuss]

17. You obviously having bothered apprising yourself of the facts.

After Mutallab, a prominent banker and former cabinet minister, alerted the US embassy in Abuja about concerns over his son's radical views, Abdulmutallab's file was marked for attention should he apply for another visa.

But consular officials did not revoke the two-year multiple entry visa issued at the US embassy in London in 2008.

Napolitano acknowledged that the handling of the visa will be of particular concern



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/28/us-failure-intelligence-plane-bomber

[louis-t]

29. SHE WASN'T IN OFFICE IN 2008.

And, by the way, the system DID work after the fact. The system that was put in place to prevent it from going any further, worked.

[niyad]

3. what on earth did she say? as I recall, the failure was on the other side of the ocean.

[Stinky The Clown]

5. Immediately after the news of the Crotch Bomber she twice said "the system worked"

That was obviously wrong.

She more recently said the system didn't work.

Some are calling for her head. I think such people as thjose who are calling for her head are stupid. And that's being charitable.

[jbnow]

33. That is what she is accused of saying, but did not say. This is what

she said. From
If You Take Her Out of Context, Then Yes, Napolitano Said Something Dumb

Once this incident occurred, everything went according to clockwork, not only sharing throughout the air industry, but also sharing with state and local law enforcement. Products were going out on Christmas Day, they went out yesterday, and also to the industry to make sure that the traveling public remains safe. I would leave you with that message. The traveling public is safe. We have instituted some additional screening and security measures, in light of this incident, but, again, everyone reacted as they should. The system, once the incident occurred, the system worked.

The article has a clip of the video

When she was asked about saying "the system worked well" while on another show she correctly clarified what she said... that it worked well once the incident occurred.

So no, she should not be fired because of people misquoting her.

[Luminous Animal]

44. It's no use bothering Stinky with facts.

The corporate media is reporting false information but, gosh darnit, he's going to believe it.

[snagglepuss]

8. The US embassy issued him a visa despite the fact it had access to

the fact the UK denied him one on grounds he lied. Plus the fact the father told embassy his son posed a risk.

[HipChick]

14. UK visa was denied only due to a false education course..not terrorist

At the time,he was issued a visa he had not been included on a watch list

[snagglepuss]

19. Wrong.

After Mutallab, a prominent banker and former cabinet minister, alerted the US embassy in Abuja about concerns over his son's radical views, Abdulmutallab's file was marked for attention should he apply for another visa.

But consular officials did not revoke the two-year multiple entry visa issued at the US embassy in London in 2008.

Napolitano acknowledged that the handling of the visa will be of particular concern.





http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/28/us-failure-intelligence-plane-bomber

[HipChick]

21. His father reported him 6 months ago..he got the visa in 2008 via Bush,they never cross reference

databases

There are a lot of fake Universities set up here in the UK, set up not to teach, but to obtain visa entry. Sole purpose. He was therefore banned fro the UK for attempts to enter illegally.

[snagglepuss]

23. As explained in article consular officials should have revoked

the two-year multiple entry visa issued at the US embassy in London in 2008.

Napolitano acknowledged that the handling of the visa will be of particular concern.



Furthermore us has complete access to UK visa denials. The fact that he lied on a visa app is supposed to raise a red flag.

[Hello_Kitty]

37. In June of 2008. Bush was President at the time.

Why should Napolitano resign over a visa issued when she was the Governor of Arizona?

[damntexdem]

4. No, but her agency should be abolished.

Its parts redistributed back where they were before the 9/11 political hysteria.

[Stinky The Clown]

7. I totally agree

And in the meantime, take Lieberman out of the chairmanship of the Senate committee.

[RKP5637]

26. YES!!! YES!!! YES!!! "take Lieberman out of the chairmanship of the Senate committee." n/t

[Ikonoklast]

34. I disagree.

Lieberman is to blame for this, after all, isn't His Lordship responsible for oversight of this?

Isn't this a failure of his Senate leadership position?

Lieberman let it happen.

[TheKentuckian]

16. I completely agree

[David Zephyr]

49. Thank you. That's the real issue. It was never needed in the first place.

!

[zulchzulu]

6. Napolitano was doing what any responsible person would have done

She made a note that those who pitched in to stop Crotch Boy did a great job. Then it comes down to doing an investigation into the facts, she didn't jump the shark... like Loserman and King and others have.

[Stinky The Clown]

11. The most guilt I could assign to her is an inartful phrasing of that sentiment.

Yes, I do actually think she was defending the passengers who got involved. But the passengers are not part of "the system".

In any case. she should stay right where she is.

[Luminous Animal]

42. Her comments had nothing to do with the passenger.

"Once this incident occurred, everything went according to clockwork, not only sharing throughout the air industry, but also sharing with state and local law enforcement. Products were going out on Christmas Day, they went out yesterday, and also to the industry to make sure that the traveling public remains safe... We have instituted some additional screening and security measures, in light of this incident, but, again, everyone reacted as they should. The system, once the incident occurred, the system worked."

http://washingtonindependent.com/72207/if-you-take-her-out-of-context-then-yes-napolitano-said-something-dumb

Why are you buying into this false interpretation?

[bigwillq]

9. No (nt)

[Proud Liberal Dem]

10. If the Republicans want her to resign

then we should definitely dig our heels in and fight for her to stay put. Frankly, the Republicans have lowered the bar way too far during the past 8 years to claim legitimate outrage over the occasional gaffe or misstatement by one of our people. Hell, Bush, Cheney, et. al were busy unapologetically lying their asses off and telling Senators to go f**k themselves for eight long years and NOBODY on their side (to the best of my knowledge) called for their resignations, impeachment, etc. for anything they did- even after we eventually found out about it. By all rights, most of them should be in jail, the Hague, etc. right now (but, of course, they're not), so who the hell are they to call for her resignation?
:mad:

[Stinky The Clown]

12. This goes way beyond a partisan food fight.

Although there is that, too.

[Luminous Animal]

45. Then what it is? They took her comment out of context (which you bought hook, line, and sinker)

and continue to do so.

What she said had nothing to do with the reaction of the passenger, it had to do with systematic response of government and private agencies.'

"Once this incident occurred, everything went according to clockwork, not only sharing throughout the air industry, but also sharing with state and local law enforcement. Products were going out on Christmas Day, they went out yesterday, and also to the industry to make sure that the traveling public remains safe. I would leave you with that message. The traveling public is safe. We have instituted some additional screening and security measures, in light of this incident, but, again, everyone reacted as they should. The system, once the incident occurred, the system worked."

[liberal N proud]

13. OFF WITH HER HEAD!

Everyone wants to blame someone for something and see someone get fired.

Why do people always want to see someone get punished?

[Hippo_Tron]

15. She made a gaffe, it happens

[Eric J in MN]

31. But she didn't make a gaffe, she was just taken out-of-context.

http://washingtonindependent.com/72207/if-you-take-her-out-of-context-then-yes-napolitano-said-something-dumb

[Luminous Animal]

43. It appears that no matter how many times you post the truth, DUers

are content to believe the propaganda.

[spanone]

18. the real story is jim demint blocking TSA administrator..

perhaps this is precisely why this incident happened?

Why there's no one in charge at TSA
Sen. Jim DeMint is blocking the administration's nominee over unionization issues

Now would be a good time to have someone at the wheel over at the Transportation Security Administration, especially with the agency promulgating some particularly silly-sounding temporary rules for air travel in the wake of the attempted bombing of Flight 253 on Christmas. But at the moment, no one is permanently in charge at the TSA, so on Monday, there's been some debate about who's to blame for that.

What's unquestionably true is that Erroll Southers isn't proceeding toward confirmation as head of the TSA because of Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C. DeMint has a hold on Southers' nomination because of his concerns that Southers hasn't been forthcoming about whether the administration will allow security screeners to unionize.

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2009/12/28/tsa

[Thickasabrick]

20. Jeebus, this is nothing compared to Geithners and Summers screw

ups. He shows no signs of getting rid of them so I don't think Janet should worry.

[WyLoochka]

22. It's really rare for her

to "mispeak" She did a great job as governor of AZ - handled the crazeee repubs in the lege quite easily, got a lot of her way and wasn't known for making "gaffes."

[Eric J in MN]

32. She was taken out-of-context.

She said that the system worked AFTER the incident, not that it worked BEFORE.

http://washingtonindependent.com/72207/if-you-take-her-out-of-context-then-yes-napolitano-said-something-dumb

[jwirr]

24. No.

[notesdev]

25. The problem isn't necessarily Napolitano per se

The problem is that that department exists at all. It's basically a big fear machine that costs a lot of money but does little to nothing to actually protect anyone, as it introduces incremental inconveniences and intrusions into our lives. The only way someone could run it correctly is to oversee its dismantling.

[gulliver]

27. What? Did she forget to change the alert status to Orange?

The Republicans went right into blame mode. That is what set the context for Napolitano's "gaffes." She should have assumed the GOP would be looking for someone to blame besides themselves. Every single word out of her mouth should have been spoken with that assumption. And every single sentence should have been spoken as if it were going to be quoted by itself. That's the way the gotcha game is played.

Wish we played it better.

[bridgit]

28. Not for idiocies put in place by bush/Cheney - Fire Lieberman! Then move on ~

[Eric J in MN]

30. She said that the system worked AFTER, not that they system worked BEFORE.

http://washingtonindependent.com/72207/if-you-take-her-out-of-context-then-yes-napolitano-said-something-dumb

If You Take Her Out of Context, Then Yes, Napolitano Said Something Dumb

By Spencer Ackerman 12/28/09 12:02 PM

How hard is it to watch a clip of an interview? Yesterday on ABC’s “This Week,” Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano made the following observation about the aftermath of Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab’s attempted detonation of Northwest Airlines Flight 253:

"Once this incident occurred, everything went according to clockwork, not only sharing throughout the air industry, but also sharing with state and local law enforcement. Products were going out on Christmas Day, they went out yesterday, and also to the industry to make sure that the traveling public remains safe. I would leave you with that message. The traveling public is safe. We have instituted some additional screening and security measures, in light of this incident, but, again, everyone reacted as they should. The system, once the incident occurred, the system worked."

[Luminous Animal]

41. I am dismayed (but not surprised) that DUers are ignoring this.

When it comes to falling for media propaganda, we are no smarter than freepers or teabaggers.

[TwilightGardener]

35. No. But Democratic public officials need to be careful of what they say, because

it certainly will be used against them--don't phrase anything in a way that can be twisted into a meaning you didn't intend.

[Hello_Kitty]

36. The visa was issued in 2008

Two of the guys who helped him plan it were released from Gitmo in 2007.

He boarded a plane in Nigeria and transferred to another one in Amsterdam.

This is Janet Napolitano's fault, how?

I conclude the only mistake she made, if you could call it that, was the statement she initially made.

[HughMoran]

38. Executed at dawn

I keed, I keed!

[jillan]

39. I think she should come back to the governorship of Arizona - where she belongs...

You can't imagine how much us Zonies miss and need her to protect us from the rw wackos that run - or should I say - ruin - our state.

[goldcanyonaz]

46. I have a feeling our state will be turning blue in the next 6 years.

[Hello_Kitty]

47. Tell me about it!

J-Nap would not be putting up with the Legislature's bullshit. There would have been a budget by June 30th that was acceptable for her to sign or there'd have been hell to pay.

[Luminous Animal]

40. You seem to be basing your question on false information.

Here is what she said, "Once this incident occurred, everything went according to clockwork, not only sharing throughout the air industry, but also sharing with state and local law enforcement. Products were going out on Christmas Day, they went out yesterday, and also to the industry to make sure that the traveling public remains safe. I would leave you with that message. The traveling public is safe. We have instituted some additional screening and security measures, in light of this incident, but, again, everyone reacted as they should. The system, once the incident occurred, the system worked."

http://washingtonindependent.com/72207/if-you-take-her-out-of-context-then-yes-napolitano-said-something-dumb

[Prism]

48. Nah. Words shouldn't be more fatal than actions.

It was a bit gobsmacking to see her riff on a version of "Sure I dropped the baby on its head, but did you see the amazing way I picked it up?!" That was not the time for that comment. But it's certainly not resignation worthy.

[defendandprotect]

50. Dumb response to more fakery . . .

If we can't wake up to the insanity of what we're being told here . . .

how are we ever going to wake up to the insane belief that NORAD was coincidentally

AWOL on 9/11!!???