If congress sent a single payer bill to President Obama, he would sign it

[WonderGrunion]

But this congress will never send up a piece of legislation that liberal. If progressives want Pres. Obama to sign more progressive legislation they don't need to stay home in 2010 and 2012, they need to flood the polls in record numbers and elect more liberal congress critters to the house and senate. That's how to effectively make your voices heard in Washington.

Or you can ignore me and claim you were thrown under a bus on "teh internets". Your choice.

[bobbolink]

1. Oh, yes, of course..... It's "our choice".

Like the DLC senator that was chosen to replace ANOTHER DLCer, who was handpicked by the state party.

Yup, we have allllll these choices.... kinda like the choices the Iraqis had about being bombed.....

When you connect with reality, and realize that much of thhis is done behind closed doors BEFORE We, The People ever have a chance to have a say at all, then maybe you will begin to look at our other options.

[WonderGrunion]

3. Then you take over the state parties!

One vote for President every four years does not fulfill your obligations as a citizen in this nation. It would be remarkably easy for solid progressives to take over the party infrastructure inside the states if they could be bothered to get to the party meetings each month and organize from within the party to take it back.

Obama said "Yes we can". Not "Yes I can".

[bobbolink]

5. Of course. We homeless people have so much POWER.

Of course, we don't need an address to run for office, right?

But, then, you have all the answers, I'm sure.

[WonderGrunion]

7. You don't need to even run for office.

Start an advocacy group from within the shelter. Attend local party meetings. As long as you're a registered Democrat you can vote on all local measures, including who gets sent up for nomination to be elected.

I spent the bulk of the last year unemployed and living on a couch at my brother's house. The only thing I had was time and I made sure I spent it getting people that represented my interests at the state level.

[bobbolink]

9. Look, DUers won't even listen to me... and you expect me to somehow gain the ear of the FUCKING

PARTY???

YOU won't even hear, and have expressed no concern or caring whatsoever.

Case in point.

I'm sick to death of people who can't hear, telling others what to do.

[WonderGrunion]

10. Homelessness is not helplessness

Unemployment is not unempowered.

I apologize for the lack of empathy. My first instinct when attacked is to attack back.

Register as a Democrat. Go to monthly county and state meetings. Make friends and connections. Get your county and state party commissioners to be people that support your causes by having your friends and connections help you to vote them in office. That's how the party is changed. You carefully prune the low branches to help the tree form the way you want it to.

[bobbolink]

11. Dear, you attacked first. You are DICTATING what I "should" do, without

knowing one damned thing about me.

I'll say it again...even DUers can't hear..... we are ignored. There is ZERO support, that you keep insisting that I have, INCLUDING RIGHT HERE AT DU.

I'M THE ONE THAT IS BEING PRUNED, SO GET A CLUE.

[WonderGrunion]

19. I took your telling me to "connect to reality" as the first attack

C'est la vie.

[bobbolink]

21. Look again at the whole tone of that OP. ATTACK.

And every word you've posted to me since is in the same judgemental vein.

Yet, I'm supposed to bow to your superiority?

Try again.

[WonderGrunion]

22. You took it personally as an attack

That says far more about you than it does about me. I assure you, you're being far more condescending than I am with your "Dear"s and "connect to reality"s. I've never questioned you as delusional or used quaint homilies to address you. I've simply offered suggestions on how to change things.

How about you just try once?

[bobbolink]

27. You're goddamned right it was an attack.

But you're so used to making denigrating comments that you don't even recognize them as they come out of your mouth.

[WonderGrunion]

29. If you truly think that then alert on the OP

and let the mods decide it. I think the body of your response applies to you as well.

[bobbolink]

32. You are so used to denigrating others that it escapes you.

Yet, you advocate working to change the political landscape.

I know of NOBODY who is successful working for political change and treating people as you do.

[WonderGrunion]

38. A lot of successful politicians are assholes

LBJ was an asshole and used his assholishness to get Medicare passed and pass civil rights legislation.

[bobbolink]

40. There you have it. Assholery is an admirable goal to some.

Just don't expect those you look down on to appreciate that quality.

Some of us see it for what it is.

Thanks for seeing reality.

[WonderGrunion]

43. I didn't say I admired it. I just wanted to prove you wrong.

n/m

[bobbolink]

45. Yes, proving those on your side wrong is an admirable goal.

Right up there with assholery.

Thank you for reaching for understanding.

[WonderGrunion]

46. I'm pretty sure you said from the beginning that I wasn't on "your" side

I understand perfectly well. I'm waiting for you to catch up.

[bobbolink]

47. Ah, yes, back to the snide attacks. It's sooooo attractive, and soooo "progressive".

[WonderGrunion]

51. I don't want your attraction and I never claimed to be progressive.

Just ask pacifists and anti death penalty people how "progressive" I am.

[bobbolink]

55. That explains it.

The RW playbook is safe.

As you can see, you are on the negative side of the count, and the only replies you are getting now is from me. That's how interesting most people see this thread.

Given that, I don't wish to keep kicking it, so have fun throwing around the attacks all by yourself.

By now...

[Enthusiast]

70. LMAO!

[Enthusiast]

69. Let's all join the asshole club!

LBJ was one, you can be one too!

[MH1]

48. Pot, meet kettle.

[WonderGrunion]

49. I really avoided using that phrase

Hopefully you can figure out why.

[MH1]

57. Well, after thinking about it I can surmise an idea.

But that's not something I would normally think about when responding to a poster on the internet. We are all just pixels on the internets, ya know? Ideas should stand on their own and evaluation of ideas should be colorblind. But I guess if someone has shown hypersensitivity in other areas it might be wise to be careful. Hmm.

[bobbolink]

53. Glad you two have met.

[MH1]

54. Actually not until this thread, but I am glad too.

Thank you for kicking this thread so much that I saw it. :hi:

[bobbolink]

56. You're very welcome.

The cheerleaders belong together.

Do have fun.

[Individualist]

4. +1

[SammyWinstonJack]

13. +1

:applause:

[FormerDittoHead]

33. +3 n/t

[WonderGrunion]

44. -square root of pi

Just to mess up your fascist dedication to whole numbers.

[invictus]

67. +4

[havocmom]

2. It is nice to see some old-time DUers back in the saddle around here

Thank you for the post.

Yeah, I want more dedicated left DEMs in primaries for us to support, work for, elect. Put real DEMS on the Hill and move forward.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bobbolink]

16. Hahahaha..... come next November, you will once again be wanting the votes of us whiners.

Calling us names and denigrating us will NOT get you what you want, will it?

Lets see how well you do without us.

Then YOU will be whining...

:rofl:

[SargeUNN]

23. Great Attitude, we will give up and let the Fascist win

You will then get exactly what you deserve and that is full blown fascism. The way fascism has taken hold in the past is with people who have the attitude they will just quit and that will teach everyone but the sad part is they are being hypocrites themselves.

I don't agree with Obama on everything and I have my complaints but I sure prefer Obama to what we would have with McCain and the GOP. If giving Obama credit for his good work is cheerleading then I am proud to accept that, but the big question is who are you cheering for? Certainly not a progress/liberal view because you strength the corporate lovers in both parties with your apathy. So if you think you are doing anything to help make the progressive ideals take hold then you couldn't be more wrong, but instead you are like the ones in Italy and Germany who allowed Mussolini and Hitler to gain control by sitting on their hands.

[WonderGrunion]

24. "When they came for the gypsies..."

"When they came for the gypsies, I did not speak, for I am not
a gypsy. When they came for the Jews, I did not speak, because I
wasn't a Jew. When they came for the Catholics, I did not speak, for I
am not a Catholic. And when they came for me, there was no one left to
speak." -On the Wall at the Holocaust Museum in Washington

[bobbolink]

26. "They" came for homeless people a long time ago, and you not only were silent,

you were on THEIR side.

Quoting Niemoller doesn't make you smart.

[WonderGrunion]

28. Nor does quoting Dr King or Tubman

How was I on "their" side?

[bobbolink]

30. argue, argue, argue.

Has your heart been surgically removed?

Is there any there there?

[bobbolink]

25. You're soooo funny.

Blaming me and calling me a facist when I point out that denigrating people is NO WAY to win votes.

Really schmardt.

First I'm a communist because I want more liberal policies, now I'm a facist.

You guys are really funny.

[SargeUNN]

31. pardon me but you need to quit being defensive and think

You were not called a fascist until you defended your not being one. Maybe you are maybe not but your attitude is certainly opening doors for fascism.

It isn't easy to step out and put your actions where your mouth is, and it can also put your life on the line, uproot you from your home and change your life, but it is worth it. I spoke out for the Katrina Survivors and took on Haley Barbour and won in my quest. Since I have helped raise funds and goods to put people back in homes, was chosen the Inspiring Person of January 2007 by the Progressive's Handbook, had a radio show on Nova M/ KPHX now on Roots Up Radio Network, AM1670 San Antonio Tx, WXBH-FM Louisville Ky., and http://thejefffariasshow.com as well as have talked with Senator John Kyl, Representatives, Marsha Blackburn, Alan Grayson, Harry Mitchell, Dennis Kucinich, and others. I almost lost my life fighting Barbour but to know I saved lives and help improve conditions for those I could made it worth it. No I didn't save everyone, no all problems are not resolved in the Katrina Area, but I have made a difference by not quitting. If you quit then you lose and you put in power the ones you claim to detest.

[bobbolink]

35. Wow... I'm impressed.

And you did all of that while calling people names.

Gee, I guess the RW model DOES work, afterall.

Look, you don't know ONE THING about me, and claiming to know I'd done or not done anything is not only laughable, it's the opposite of what "progressives" are supposed to be.

Get off your superiority trip, and treat others with respect as equal human beings and stop the judgement train.

[SargeUNN]

36. again you called yourself that

Your defensive nature shows plenty by itself and needs no help from me. If you can't see the challenge then I am sorry you can't, but I will spell it out, do something to see things improve as well as gripe and don't be a quitter because quitters get nothing done but gripe.

[bobbolink]

37. That's a very good RW gambit... calll someone names then call them "defensive"

You got the play book down really well.

It's that compassion and understanding thing you are falling down on.

[Fire1]

8. Absolutely and I've said so on this board several times.

But bitching on a board is so much easier than getting off your ass.:sarcasm:

[Edweird]

12. If that was how it worked then we wouldn't have Social Security or Medicare.

The leader has to lead.

[Enrique]

14. is that how LBJ got Medicare?

did LBJ take Medicare off the table, saying it's unrealistic, and then the Congress went ahead with it anyway? No, LBJ led on Medicare.

Did any major reform in our history happen that way, with the President not involved except to sign it? Of course not. Leadership from the president is absolutely crucial.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WonderGrunion]

18. LBJ had 69 Dem Senators and no filibuster threats

and liberal Repubs? He didn't need to lead to get medicare, he already had a super-majority.

[Enthusiast]

71. Thank you for pointing that out.

Many DUers are too young to know the way things were done when the Democratic Party actually had power.

[Brickbat]

17. I guess I would have liked to have seen a little more leadership from Obama himself.

I think I heard more from him during the campaign during the crafting of this bill. Such a disappointment.

[WonderGrunion]

20. I heard him say "Yes we can"

Not "Yes I can"

and also "We are the change we have been waiting for"

Too many people thought they should just vote in November and everything else would take care of itself.

[HughMoran]

34. Ain't it the truth

talk is cheap.

[MH1]

52. WG, that is what too many people always think.

that change ends with voting.

Thanks for the post.

[Brickbat]

60. And those of us who delivered his votes, and delivered him a Democratic congress, gave him that.

And those of us who have called Congress and written Congress and demonstrated after the election are kind of wondering why the hell we bothered.

[WonderGrunion]

61. Politics are a marathon not a sprint

The reason corporations have so much influence over politics is because they are in it for the long haul. They send reps to every local party meeting and keep sending donations to all the candidates that will listen to them because they know that persistence works. If you give up after one election then you are letting them win.

[cherokeeprogressive]

39. And if frogs had wings, they wouldn't bruise their asses when they land. n/t

[WonderGrunion]

41. Do frogs actually land on their ass?

And if they had wings, would they even land at all?

[bobbolink]

42. .

:rofl:

They could also fly out of that proverbial boiling pot.

:hi:

[MH1]

50. K & R. of course facts are not always welcome on message boards.

[NYC_SKP]

58. I call bullshit on all the unreccers.

Bullshit.

Can't argue with fucking facts, so you unrec.

Cowardly, IMHO.

[WonderGrunion]

62. I don't let the unreccers bother me.

I've had OPs with over a hundred recs. I've had OPs deep into the negative. They all mean one thing. People are reading what I wrote. If they don't agree with me, that is their right.

[jgraz]

59. We gave them their majorities. Now we need to primary anyone who refuses to be a Democrat

Up to and including our Fierce Advocate in Chief.

[WonderGrunion]

63. This is a good list to start with

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=98789&mesg_id=98789

The Senate is our biggest obstacle to progressive legislation at the moment.

[jgraz]

66. Not really.

But a Senate that won't take their marching orders from Rahmbo would be nice.

[Enthusiast]

72. There, someone said it.

What more can a citizen do than elect their party to represent them? If they elect their party to the majority it is reasonable for them to expect representation in their best interest.

[gopwacker_455]

64. I have serious doubts about that, judging by his actions

[WonderGrunion]

68. President Obama has signed every piece of liberal legislation

that congress has sent him. There is no evidence that he would veto a single payer plan if congress sent it to him.

[Cleita]

65. You are right.

We have to clean up Congress and our governors as well.

[Enthusiast]

73. Rec! I agree with the OP. nt

[grahamhgreen]

74. He needs to use the bully pulpit to champion Single Payer - not crush it, as he has.