"If that means you have to deny him pain medication because he's badly burned, do that"

[Amerigo Vespucci]

VIDEO @ the URL below.

Pat Buchanan's Torture American Style: Withhold meds from would-be Flight 253 bomber
By John Amato Tuesday Dec 29, 2009 2:00pm

http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/pat-buchanan-torture-american-style-wit

Spencer Ackermann tried this morning on Morning Joe to bring common sense to the debate over the fate of the would-be bomber Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab. He rightly points out that the "freak-out factor" that a situation like this occurs.

Spencer: I really don't understand the argument because every single time we have a new emergency, we have to forget about the hard lessons we've learned in the past about this. And then secondly, by every standard you've seen so far in every piece of reporting, the guy cooperated. He immediately said he was a member of al-Qaida. He started talking in a threatening manner about how there are other attacks coming, so I'm not really sure where we make this jump to the idea that we're not getting information from the guy.

Since he's cooperating so much, what the hell. Ship him off to Gitmo, torture the shit out of him just for the hell of it.

Pat Buchanan couldn't miss out on a chance to join in the chorus of psychopathic right-wingers who have been responding with their usual grotesque visions of xenophobic hatred after the Christmas Day failed attack on Flight 253.

Buchanan: ...frankly if that means you have to deny him pain medication because he's badly burned, I think you go ahead and do that. I'm not arguing for torture, but I am...

Spencer: You just did.

Buchanan: Nobody is, but I am arguing for hostile interrogations of this fellow, because our job is to protect American lives.It's not to make sure his Miranda rights haven't been violated.

Spencer: So you're arguing for torture but with a different euphemism for it?

Buchanan: I'm arguing for the fact that this is an enemy soldier who tried to commit a mass atrocity and the idea that you're treating him like some guy who held up a 7-11, it seems to me preposterous.

Spencer: Except for all of the hundreds of terrorists that we've convicted in federal courts over the years that were able to hold that were able to incarcerate successfully and that were able to get information out of. I mean, the fact is, al-Qaeda is a dangerous and really important threat, but they are also not a super army of supermen that have Muslim heat vision, and it's ludicrous to think that we should inflate how dangerous they are because that's exactly what they want.

[Skittles]

1. then you lower yourself to his level

but since Pat is already at that level, it pains him not at all

[YOY]

7. +100,000

Because nobody ever said being the damn good guys was easy...but it pays off in the long run.

A fact seemingly overlooked by many here it would seem.

[timeforpeace]

52. Also makes no sense medically. Burns don't preclude pain medication. WTF?

[spotbird]

121. The man set his genitals

on fire. How do you torture him?

[marshall]

127. Laugh at him and call him names?

That's worked for most people so far.

[Solly Mack]

2. k/r

[RoadRage]

3. I don't care.

This guy tried to blow up a plane full of American's on Christmas. If it takes a few extra minutes to get his morphine going while he's jabbering away about specifics like how he got his underwear full of explosives onto the airplane, and who trained and told him how to do it.. frankly, I don't give a shit.

I'm a liberal... but I have more compassion for the passengers on the plane and their families then I do with a crazy Nigerian who was hell bent on carrying out Al Queada's latest attack.

Sorry - but this is where I part from the hardlined Dem's.. we didn't kill the guy, and this is one of the few countries where he could do what he did, and still live. If he was in China, he'd probably already be dead.

[TheKentuckian]

5. Well move to China then.

You think that becoming what you supposedly hate is the answer then live it.

This is the United States of America, land of the free and home of the brave. Cowards, torture supporters, and those willing to sink to any level of depravity to feel a little safer are in the wrong land.

[RoadRage]

30. Na.. i'm allowed to live here and still have a different opinion then you..

and by "different opinion" i guess I mean not feeling sorry for an attempted mass murderer.

[Tailormyst]

96. So you believe that up until the 1690s there was indeed a huge amounts of witches and devil worship?

Because if you believe in torture you must also believe in all the things people have "confessed" to throughout the ages.

[spotbird]

123. You're in the majority

with your torture support. Never mind that it doesn't work, it's feel good revenge.

Your are not liberal, but it's not surprising you don't know anything about that either.

[RoadRage]

130. There's nothing funnier to me

then someone on a message board telling me who I am or who i'm not. Hysterical actually.. hope you're enjoying yourself, and happy new year!

[dkf]

6. I agree with you

He is suffering from pain he deliberately inflicted upon himself. I feel no responsibility whatsoever to provide him with painkillers if we need him talking. Heck I don't care if he ever gets medication. His fault his consequences.

[cbdo2007]

13. Not only did he inflict the pain on himself......he tried to kill a bunch of other people!!

Yet half the people here at DU would volunteer to let the guy crash in their basement while he's in the country and drive him around to some of the touristy sites.

God forbid we're actually mean to someone who tried to kill a bunch of us.

[Ikonoklast]

26. Really?

"Yet half the people here at DU would volunteer to let the guy crash in their basement while he's in the country and drive him around to some of the touristy sites."

Nonsense.

But a good try on your part trying to paint half of DU as insane. Catapult the propaganda, and all that.

Cheney still luvs you.

[KakistocracyHater]

138. getting him drunk would probably get more info-this is NOT a tv show

torture DOESN'T WORK, it doesn't get good info. Instead, try 'truth serum'-remember that?

& a guy with 'roadrage' as his name doesn't surprise me with his "24" views.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

82. The only rational response to such stupidity is to point at it and laugh.

Yet half the people here at DU would volunteer to let the guy crash in their basement while he's in the country and drive him around to some of the touristy sites.

Can you be any more over-the-top without making deliberate satire? Seriously, you sound like a straw-man stereotypical right-winger in a This Modern World strip -- only you're serious! That's scary.

What next, welfare queens in cadillacs? Ketchup is a vegetable? God hates fags? Potatoe?

[NOLALady]

86. It works both ways.

God forbid others (Iraqis, people of Fallujah, whoever) are mean to our military because they are following their orders which results in the deaths of innocents.

[tavalon]

95. Bullshit

Equating that half of DU understands the rule of law and that torturing is wrong with us letting him crash in our basements is specious at best and total bullshit at worst.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

125. That line of "reasoning" is SO right-wing it isn't even funy.

Ditto for "don't do the crime if you can't do the time."

And many others. It's not thought, it's quackspeak regurgitation.

[Hekate]

132. Damn. I guess schools really don't teach American history and civics worth a damn any more.

We are a nation of laws, not of kings and not of mob violence. Let the law take its course until this dumb sucker ends his days in a supermax prison. He's not going to ever breath the air of freedom again.

Take your sadistic fantasies of revenge realize that's what they are -- Sadism. Fantasy. Revenge. Not justice. Definitely unconstitutional. Un-American. Very freeperish.

Hekate

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. So you agree with Pat Buchanan

Okay.

[dkf]

60. I have no problem with that.

I dont do that guilt by association thing. I take everything on its own merits.

[MNDemNY]

98. You are trashing the constitution of the United States. Just like dick cheney.

On it's own merits, you = dick cheney. You should be proud.

[bahrbearian]

108. If you want someone to agree with you, you should torture them

then they will tell you what you want to know, which is anything to stop the torture.

[tavalon]

93. See reply #89

If being a land of laws isn't enough and selfishness rules the day, then it is still to your personal benefit that he be treated humanely.

[bread_and_roses]

17. It is precisely because individuals don't give a shit that we have laws

whether not "giving a shit" is from comprehensible emotions (those of victims, families/friends of victims, or those who empathize with victims) or from a perspective of deranged psychopathy is irrelevant. That's why it is critical that there is Law, and that nations observe the Law.

And perhaps you can use your own emotional response to this incident to extend your empathy to the families of the civilians we continue to blow to bits with our bombs in Afghanistan - and maybe now Pakistan and Lebanon too. (which is NOT to give any credence to the notion of an "acceptable" motive for acts of terrorism, or attempted terrorism - only to apply the same standards to our own behaviour)

[RoadRage]

18. Yup..

I don't think it's any better for us to be blowing up innocent civilians abroad then it is for terrorists to do it here. I think that is equally as "wrong", and frankly - part of the reason that there are so many terrorists in the first place. They believe we're evil, and in some ways perhaps we are.

But, that doesn't mean that I'm giving the guy sitting on an airplane with bombs in his briefs any compassion when he tries to light himself on fire. Burn dude.. you started it, you live with it.

[freddie mertz]

63. I suspect you are looking for empathy in the wrong place, my friend.

Some people just do not get it.

[freddie mertz]

62. If you support torture and abuse of prisoners, you are not a liberal.

And since, it is illegal, that would also make you an advocate of criminal behavior.

Maybe you should consider a move to China yourself.

[proud2BlibKansan]

74. +1

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

83. That's it in a nutshell.

And if you don't like me saying that, you can FOESADIAF.

[Walk away]

78. So the definition of "hardline dems" is to be against torture?

The fact that it is more likely to get information from him if you treat him humanely and give him his medication without torturing him with pain, means nothing to you?

You may be a Dem but not a decent human being. I guess that makes me a hard liner.

[freddie mertz]

81. To be against torture is to be a rational human being!

[Walk away]

114. Amen.... nt

[tavalon]

89. Ben Franklin said something that directly relates to your comments:

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety"

We are a country of laws or so the Republicans screech every time they open their mouths. You want this man treated humanely because your government decides who is and who is not a terrorist so that means that one day it could be you deemed a terrorist. So, you see, it's in your best interest to make sure terrorists are handled humanely and according to our laws not our passions.

[Tailormyst]

94. So you would lower us to their standards?

You don't want to solve the problem, what you want is vengeance. Torture doesn't work, it never has. Not in medieval times and not now. You just want to cause pain to those whom you think have harmed us while bypassing our system of government.

It's scary and sad.

[MNDemNY]

97. You=Dick Cheney

dispute that. You are advocating ileagle acts. You are trashing the constitution of the united states. Just like dick cheney. you should be proud.

[FLDCVADem]

122. WTH is an "ileagle" act? n/t

[Better Today]

111. Clearly you have hostility issues from the start based on your handle.

So let me take a moment to tell you a bit of intelligent reality, k?

Have you ever been around someone on a morphine drip? Seriously they tend to chatter their ever lovin' heads off. Have you ever been around anyone in severe pain, they tend to pucker up tightly and say little or nothing besides groaning and crying.

If you actually want results, you need to actually THINK, rather that RAGE.

[Hippo_Tron]

133. I'd rather aspire to be like the rest of the free and democratic world than like China

[rasputin1952]

134. No...that is torture and we cannot condone it...

From all accounts, this kid has been cooperating with authorities. To deny him medication to ease his pain is inhuman.

[gratuitous]

4. Isn't that nice?

Pat Buchanan has so little regard for the American system that he thinks it can and should be toppled just because he's scared and wet his pants over Mr. Abdulmutallab. Due process? Out the window. Geneva Conventions? Shitcan 'em. Basic documents of human rights promulgated all over the world? Just so much toilet paper for him to wipe his pasty white ass with. Pat Buchanan is frightened, so we all need to chuck our humanity and torture anyone who crosses our path and makes us feel nervous.

Sorry Mr. Buchanan; if you want to be a terrorist, go join one of the militias forming up in the hinterlands. Me? I'm an American and I believe in preserving, protecting and defending the Constitution of the United States of America. If that doesn't suit you, get out of my country.

[Tansy_Gold]

8. I'm with you, gratuitous

Just as we have to fight for the rights of free speech for those with whom we disagree, we must fight that the other rights granted to us by the Constitution be applied to all.

To do otherwise is to be exactly what this terrorist or any other probably thinks we are. Our mission should be to prove him wrong, not give him more evidence that he is right.




Tansy Gold

[peacebird]

12. Agree 100%

"Just as we have to fight for the rights of free speech for those with whom we disagree, we must fight that the other rights granted to us by the Constitution be applied to all."

[LostInAnomie]

9. Meh...

[Edweird]

10. With just enough morphine, he'll be your best friend and will happily engage you in conversation.

Denying him morphine is punitive, I understand. However, I also see it as counterproductive. Especially if he is as weakminded as he appears. Add a stimulant and your only worry will be sifting through the volumes of information he has given you.

[Peacetrain]

11. Sounds like a plan to me that makes a whole lot more sense!!

[pitohui]

14. plus this kid is obv. a lonely hearts sad sack loser

there are much easier ways to get every thought in his head out of his head w.out resorting to torture

let him torture himself when he realizes that usa citizens are decent kind people that could have been good friends to him and that he threw away his life for adolescent religious nonsense...

he will likely bond w. whoever is "there" at this low point in his pitiful existence...i say use that

[struggle4progress]

43. bingo. the last people he dealt with only wanted him to blow his balls off for their pleasure.

treat his wounds, feel him, talk to him like a human being, and he may well come around

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

65. But, you see, making them SUFFER is MORE important than improving safety and saving people!

And if you disagree, you love criminals and terrorists and coddle them and want to give them a blowjob because you hate America!

[paulsby]

112. morphine is not

a stimulant.

it's an opioid or opiate (either term is correct) analgesic.

cocaine? stimulant

amphetamine? stimulant

caffeine? stimulant

morphine? nope

maybe a petty point, but just sayin'

[Edweird]

116. That is correct.

You want just enough morphine to get him euphoric without 'losing' him. Not the generic 'loaded for bear' shot.

If you've ever been around somebody coked up, you'll know that stimulants make you a compulsive talker.
Just enough to help him remember details and loosen his tongue, but not enough to make him combative of aggressive.


That would be my goal. A serene, cooperative, happy with the world 'Butt Bomber', that can't stop talking. Getting him while he's on the gurney, before the reality of the consequences of his actions have hit him, seems like the plan to me.

[spanone]

15. pat shames the human species

[FLDCVADem]

16. No problem here

If he had his way, he'd be dead now, along with nearly 300 others (at least). He brought the pain on himself, let him suffer.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dogtown]

77. That's absolutely disgusting.

What the fuck is wrong with you? They actually did that kind of filthy religion-prejudiced shit at Abu Graib, you know.


You're advocating torture and hate-crimes.

[tavalon]

102. How jingoist of you

Your forefathers would be ashamed of you.

[tavalon]

101. See post #89

You guys really need to take a deep breath and stop shitting in your pants. Your fear does not justify the torture of anyone.

[rasputin1952]

135. That is inhumane...

especially since by all accounts he has been cooperating with authorities.

Maybe roasting his nuts was an epiphany, but in any case...we cannot lower ourselves to that of those who actually enjoy seeing others in pain.

[RC]

21. Too many here are acting like the 'enemy' we are battling.

This kid has mental problems. Tormenting him doesn't help anyone. Those of us on the Left should not be acting like sociopaths. Leave that to the Republicans.

[FLDCVADem]

24. When I load my pantyhose with explosives

and try to take down a jetliner with almost 300 people on it, then you can say I'm acting like the enemy.

Too bad this guy didn't try to kill a dog - you guys would be screaming to string him up from the nearest tree if that had been the case.

[Ikonoklast]

29. "You guys"? Hmmm.

If you loaded up your pantyhose with explosives, I'd say you were crazy.

Anyone that would blow themsleves up for any cause is not quite playing with a full deck.

[FLDCVADem]

31. Yeah, as in "you guys that are feeling sorry...

...for that piece of shit that tried to blow up the plane"

[EFerrari]

32. Maybe you meant "you guys who recognize the rule of law". n/t

[FLDCVADem]

33. No, I meant exactly what I said

You guys that are feeling sorry for and making excuses for a terrorist.

[EFerrari]

38. I don't see anyone on this thread making excuses for a terrorist.

I do see a bunch of posters that remember we're supposed to be leaders in human rights and due process of law unlike Crazy Uncle Pat.

[FLDCVADem]

41. Ah, the references to mental illness

weren't making excuses for him?

Bullshit, and you know it.

[EFerrari]

42. You don't know the difference between understanding and agreement.

[FLDCVADem]

46. You make excuses for him

I don't.

[blondeatlast]

54. Where did that poster make "excuses" for him? Be specific. nt

[EFerrari]

55. You project all over people. I don't.

lol

[Zoeisright]

90. If you don't understand the difference between 'excuses' and 'explanation'

then you're hopeless.

And your language is quite telling. You think it's just fine to torture people That's unAmerican and unChristian. And violates the law. But I'll bet you're fine with that, huh?

[tavalon]

106. You really need to take a deep breath and think about what you are advocating

and why you're getting so hot under the collar for being taken to task for it.

[tavalon]

105. Exactly!

I'm frankly shocked at some of the Rethug talking points being trotted out on this conversation.

[MNDemNY]

92. You are trashing the constitution of the United States.

Much like dick Cheney did. WOW you are a fine american, just like dick cheney.

[freddie mertz]

66. Or "you liberal Democrats"?

Very telling language there.

[FLDCVADem]

119. I guess it is if you're looking for something to complain about n/t

[Ikonoklast]

34. Where do you see 'feeling sorry'?

I see 'not torture by withholding needed medical care'.

You know that is also torture as defined by the Geneva Conventions, right?

Go load up your pantyhose with more b.s.

[FLDCVADem]

35. And you know the Geneva Conventions have nothing to do with this

right?

Then again, probably not.

I'm only sorry the dickhead didn't blow himself when he was putting on his man-panties.

He chose his path, he caused his own injuries. Fuck him.

[EFerrari]

39. If he was arrested as a combatant in the War on Terra, they sure do.

[FLDCVADem]

45. He's been arrested by federal authorities, so he's in the

federal justice system now.

Try to keep up.

[blondeatlast]

53. Therefore he is under ther protection of the US Constitution. IIRC, that means that

the Fifth, Sixth, and Eighth amendments protect him. I may have forgotten a few.

I, for one, value the US Constitution. Do you--or do you only value it when it suits your purposes (and the Constitution apples to ANYONE on US soil or territories, not just citizens).

You are getting weaker, but keep trying.

[EFerrari]

57. But you don't know his status or how he will be handled.

Try to stop assuming.

[freddie mertz]

67. If he had blown himself up, others would have been hurt or died.

You are a real piece of work.

[FLDCVADem]

120. Try reading what I said

If he had blown up while he was putting on his man-panties, the only others he might have hurt would have been his terrorist brethren that were helping.

No loss there, at least not IMO. Your mileage may vary.

[yellowcanine]

73. But they do in the scenario Pat is setting up - that he is an enemy combatant.

Pat is talking about treating him as a captured enemy soldier rather than a criminal. In his mind that would allow the U.S. to refuse pain medication to him. The Geneva Conventions do not allow that sort of thing.

[blondeatlast]

36. "...feeling sorry?" Who's feeling sorry for him? Got a link? I just believe the Constitution is

a better way than, well, how al Qaeda does things.

Geezzz.

[FLDCVADem]

37. Sorry if you haven't read the pity party story on the front page of

the Washington Post, or seen the posts here about the how he was "lost" or "mentally ill".

He deserves whatever he gets, which I hope is lots of pain and eventually a lingering, painful, death.

[blondeatlast]

40. So you like how al Qaeda deals with things. Check. nt

[Ikonoklast]

44. Wonder if that one would line up to cast the first stone.

Or have someone else do it for them, like a coward.

[FLDCVADem]

47. I'd absolutely cast the first stone

against this terrorist piece of shit. No problem whatsoever.

[blondeatlast]

48. So you like the al Qaeda way. Gotcha. nt

[FLDCVADem]

49. Posting the same thing multiple times doesn't make it true

Don't you have anything else to contribute? Or is your needle stuck?

[YOY]

70. Their needle is fine.

It reads "dealing with a psycho". Mine reads the same.

[Zoeisright]

91. Project much?

Because YOU'RE posting 'the same thing multiple times'.

[Dogtown]

75. I certainly believe that

I have no trouble picturing you in a lynch-mob.

It's very ugly.

[tavalon]

109. Who will line up to cast the first stone at you if your government

determines you are a terrorist? I'm not saying he is or is not a terrorist, but if you advocate the discarding of due process for him, it can be discarded for anyone, including you. If you can't work up empathetic thought, work up some self serving thought. In other words, I don't think you are thinking this through.

[SOS]

99. Would you also support "lots of pain" for Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph?

Should the feds have tortured these guys to gain information on their affiliations?
If "We the People" are going to inflict "lots of pain and a painful death" on terrorists, let's be consistent.

[FLDCVADem]

126. A terrorist is a terrorist

I don't distinguish between domestic and foreign born. If Timothy McVeigh was injured, and the people questioning him thought that withholding pain medication would cause him to reveal info about co-conspirators, I'd be fine with that. Same with Eric Rudolph.

My question is would you be as adamantly against withholding pain meds if we were talking about McVeigh or Rudolph? Or would it be OK for them to be in pain but not this piece of shit?

[SOS]

129. We are both consistent, but in disagreement

imo, the captured criminal should be treated for his wounds and then tried in a court.

[tavalon]

107. This jingoist crap belongs elsewhere, not on DU

[LanternWaste]

117. I imagine many people believe...

I imagine many people believe that they themselves know what other people "deserve".

[YOY]

69. Bullshit.

Now stop acting like a Republican. Torture is not only sick ,immoral, and barbaric but COMPLETELY FUCKING ineffective.

[tavalon]

103. In advocating the torture and inhumane treatment of this prisoner,

you are acting like a Republican who would be more comfortable at Free Republic or at a "Teaparty".

[tavalon]

104. In advocating the torture and inhumane treatment of this prisoner,

you are acting like a Republican who would be more comfortable at Free Republic or at a "Teaparty".

[rasputin1952]

136. We want him to go throught he legal process, the same way we

want those who abuse animals to go through the process. No one here would contemplate torturing an individual who harmed a dog...yet some find allowing another human being to suffer is somehow "OK".

I was a Medic in the Army...I had to treat the wounded and injured regardless of the uniform, (often no uniform) of those who had suffered. Until you have been there, don't try to figure how you'd do it...you do it because you are a human being. Suffering knows no religion or ideology.

[freddie mertz]

64. People who advocate prisoner abuse are not on the "left"...

They are reactionaries by definition.

[backscatter712]

22. Say something crazy, Uncle Pat! n/t

[walldude]

23. Treated like a guy who held up a 7/11

So how many times have you all heard that today? It's unbelievable to me that people still think that these right wing talking heads have any brains or original thoughts at all. It seems to me like they all share a single brain. The one that gives them their talking points in the morning. :puke:

[blondeatlast]

25. Actually, it's three or so TAX EXEMPTones;

The American Enterprise Institute
The Heritage Foundation
The CATO Institute

I'm certain there are more.

[Overseas]

110. Especially when he's treated exactly like a guy who hid bomb material in his shoes.

It is a sad day when the TV news chat clan doesn't bother showing those right wingers criticizing trying him in court the videotape of them praising trying the Shoe Bomber in court, like Rachel did.

It does bother me when videotape is not used on those right wing declarations more often. When they criticize trying the Underwear Bomber in court, then they should be shown their comments when the Shoe Bomber was tried in court and asked for comment.

When they say grotesque claptrap about denying a criminal some pain medication, they should be asked about all the false information gained from torture, and about the statements of career professional interrogators about how useless torture is, and how more productive the friendly approach has been in interrogations.

Instead, the power of a TV drama seems to rule the roost. That's why I haven't watched "24" even though I've heard that its production values are high. Its basic premise just kept drumming in the idea that torture was effective when all those in a position to know have told us time and again that it isn't. Except in getting prisoners to make pre-written statements the torturers themselves want to hear.

[1awake]

27. Muslim heat vision,

sorry.. found that kinda funny.

Part of me wants to see this kid beaten within and inch of his life, then allowed to heal and beaten some more. Another part if me thinks our country should actually put into practice the things we shout, the convictions that we say we stand for. If we don't stand by our beliefs when its hard.. whats the point any other time.

[varelse]

28. We are lost souls

[winyanstaz]

58. Not me ....I know dang well torture is wrong..and so is war...

and I have not agreed to any of it.
I have spoken up against it..even when I was frightened to do so.
I live my beliefs.

[varelse]

61. Our nation's founders also spoke up against it

advocating torture of our enemies opens the door to others to reciprocate when they apprehend our enemy combatants (our spies, our moles, our soldiers).

[winyanstaz]

115. That is correct...

And decent people everywhere know it is wrong without having to be told.
Every single person advocating torture of another human being...that claims to be a Christian is headed straight to hell.
Wasn't it Jesus that said "As ye do unto the least of these..you do unto ME?"
I burns me to no end to hear hypocrites that claim to be good people advocating for torture of another human being. They are monsters.
The Karma of advocating that for another has to be horrific.

[daleo]

50. Torturing him will just create a martyr

Which will help recruit more like him. Plus it would be illegal.

[Quantess]

51. Exactly. Torturing the guy is pointless and illegal at best.

I don't feel sorry for him, but withholding meds or torture or "harsh interrogation", or whatever, will only make matters worse.

[winyanstaz]

56. I guess Pat is saying that he is no longer a Christian....

I guess ol Pat forgot that what he is saying to do to that terrorist...he is saying to do to Jesus according to the bible he claims to know so well.
"Whatsoever ye do unto the least of these..ye do unto me."
And here I was told he was a Christian. sheesh..guess that was a lie.

[daleo]

59. True Christianity is hard

Forgiving your enemy, turning the other cheek, most can't take it seriously when the chips are down.

[freddie mertz]

68. Pat is a freak, and I am sickened by the pro-torture remarks in this thread.

Nauseating.

[Odin2005]

71. Pat is a sick, evil man.

:puke:

[yellowcanine]

72. Never mind that such a step is also a violation Geneva conventions.

Refusing appropriate medical treatment to a wounded enemy combatant in custody is a violation of the Geneva Conventions. Not that Pat would care about that.

[librechik]

113. that's why they're itching to name the guy an "enemy combatant"

Republicans try to cheat at every opportunity--this is no different.

[TexasObserver]

76. Pat and the neocons are terrified, cowardly people.

Because their entire life is built around fear - most of it unnecessary - they wrongly assume that everyone would respond to the first sign of torture as they would: by blabbering everything they know. Professionals say the key is to establish a relationship with the prisoner. These guys are fragile. That's why they could be recruited to begin with - they are easily led and have a desperate need for some kind of approval.

[depakid]

124. Unfortunately they're far from alone in that regard

as we see on various sorts of threads right here on this board....

[FSogol]

79. When will Pat return to the 19th century?

Why does that scumbag get a voice in our media? Why does anyone think we care about his opinions?

:shrug:

[n2doc]

80. The barbarians supporting Pat on this thread should think about the company they keep

Are you really comfortable agreeing with the likes of the Cheney's, Buchanan's, John Yoo, Alberto Gonzalez, and of course the "Decider" himself? Really?

Torture (which is what this is, the withholding of pain medication with the stated purpose of "making him talk") DOESN'T WORK. Ask a professional sometime before you blather on about some "24" inspired fantasy.

[MindPilot]

84. Agreed -- I'm appalled at the level of bloodlust.

I never thought I would see so much thirst for revenge here on DU. From the police-can-do-wrong people and the cries for jail time for even the most minor infractions to actually supporting torture, DU is well on its way to becoming Authoritarian Underground.

Look, this is a opportunity for the US to show the world that we are better than that; we don't care if you did try to blow up an airplane and kill a bunch of people, we will still treat you decently and afford you due process just like it says in our Constitution.

[Echo In Light]

87. Someone wished for the death of an OP's mother yesterday - so nothing surprises me from the haters

... who are, of course, usually quick to whip that term out and project it onto those it doesn't apply to.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

128. Who? When? Where? Link please? -nt

[mrbarber]

85. Don't torture the guy. Give him pain meds, make sure he recovers comfortably..

and after he's given us all the info he can, try him, convict him and throw his ass into a deep dark cell.

My brother is flying today, so this news terrifies me.

[Bluerthanblue]

88. because it's only wrong when 'they' do it- mentality

screw u mr.Buchanan.

And all who share your perspective on this.

[LWolf]

100. War is not okay. Torture is not okay.

And too many responders on this thread shame DU, the Democratic Party, and humanity.

[FloridaJudy]

118. This creep has third-degree burns to his genitals

And enough evidence against him that he'll never breathe free air again.

Patching him up so that he lives a good, long time is torture enough.

[Hekate]

131. Pat Buchanan is a sadistic bastard who doesn't believe that established law is enough...

The test of ourselves as individuals and as a country is when we apply the law equally to someone we think has done something heinous.

I, for one, would like to take that noble ideal and apply it to Dick Cheney. I wouldn't allow Pat Buchanan to torture him.

Hekate

[rasputin1952]

137. I've posted a few times in this thread about human rights...

something we are all aware of.

Torture, whether it be overt or subvert mis WRONG. I should think that the vast majority of us would understand that. People like Buchanan don't, because he, and those who think like him, have always been protected, led lives where such decisions are abstract.

I was a Medic in the Army. You treat the wounded and the suffering, it is as simple as that. If you think that it is easy treating a man that just tried to kill you, and wounded or killed some of your best friends is easy, think again...but it is far easier than having to live the rest of your life knowing you could have done something but didn't. There are pains that are not physical, there are times when the darkness of your actions envelops you, destroys you, because you KNOW you are a better human being than what others might think of you, or what you think of yourself.

What this man did was despicable, but one cannot rectify a situation by being just as, or more despicable, than the individual that was moved to do what they did...all one does is surrender themselves to the animal that awaits in all of us.

There is no moral acceptance of torture, there is no moral acceptance for mass murder either. Through great fortune, only this individual became a victim of his own stupidity. Thankfully the plan never became manifest and we had to read bout hundreds of deaths.

Treat him humanely, he might allow the human side he possess' to come forward.